"God" in Battlestar Galactica Explained - Battlestar Galactica Retrospective, Supplemantal

[@logion567]

that ending joke was 100% worth it lmao.

[@Scottishstorm]

Agree to disagree :)

[@balianrhade8745]

Totally agree, it was well worth it!

[@akeel_1701]

yeah nice touch there

[@AndrewD8Red]

Faith Of The Heart is always a Win.

[@Whitespliff]

@@AndrewD8Red I personally absolutely hate that track but nice joke.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

Science fiction has it's tropes. To me it felt like Battlestar Galactica was breaking a long held scifi trope by including God and exploring faith. No series finale is really satisfying IMO. BSG's ending wasn't perfect but it didn't abandon the through-line of the overall plot. IMO throwing a anti faith curve ball at the last second would have been worse.

[@Infinite.Worldz]

As someone who was in their late teens early 20s during the shows run. I can tell you looking back on it now. This was one of the greatest television shows ever made.

[@SarmonOflynn]

I always felt adama and caine cancelling their assassinations was less them believing in one another, amd more them making a choice to remember the best of who they were, rather than what circumstances have forced them to become.

[@anno-fw7xn]

its 100% game theroy and nothong todo with blieving in one another, the assassination would have enden in a lost of people, gear and ships somthing they cant deal with in the siutioenn, i am the opionen the relgionen part is a majore weekenings, keep out the supernaturele and show how reglionen is used.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

I found it interesting that even someone as batshit crazy as Cain had a single shred of humanity left amongst her insanity and pure evil

[@SarmonOflynn]

@@anno-fw7xn I'm dont see what one has to do with the other.

[@jacksmith4460]

@@anno-fw7xn regardless of that I still think it was a matter of decency and dangling over a precipice. They both realised it was not a good move longterm for different reasons I think, but it was not belief in each other, Also thought the supernatural element was the best part of the show. Funny when its pure fantasy "oh that's fine" as soon as it has a remote possible tie back to reality "NOPE I am putting my fingers in my ears, now I am running away" To me that's some crazy kind of hypocrisy. Its a ridiculous double standard. If you dont hold that standard fine but i would argue you do, by watching a show about humans coming from 12 planets in the distant galaxy, has as much if not more of a far fetched element, than the notion of a higher power

[@jacksmith4460]

@@BattlestarZenobia Cain was not pure evil at all, she was completely extreme and psychotic, but she was not evil. She was a product to some extent of circumstance. If you think she was evil I think you should re watch the show. The whole continuous theme in the show is that no one was evil not even Cavil, and no one was purely good. EVERY character is pretty much killed or dies metaphorically and is re born...EVERY main character. Cain lived by the sword and died by the sword but was not evil, although some(many) of her acts , for sure were deplorable Baltar starts as a "bad guy" but ends up saving humanity, Laura is mostly a good influence but shows real malice with Baltar until the end, the "Old Man" is a brilliant leader and a farther figure but also at points becomes a Tyrrant blinded by rage and anger,also his treatment of Baltar was appalling. Sol has a huge change in story arc and is constantly wavering from "good" to "Bad" guy in the wider plot context. Even Cavil who is bitter twisted and angry, has reasons for it. He is not just a mindless agent of chaos. Ellen says it beats when she says "all I see is the little boy", because thats what Cavil is, at the end of the day, for all his circuitry and claims to be sentient but at the same time void of "soul" , really he is just a confused little boy who misunderstood and as also misunderstood to some degree. He became something that was not a good force, but Cavil was not evil as such. The whole point of the show (To me) was that is was making a repeated and very clear statement, that "not everything is black and white" and even acts that are viewed as good can have ill intent and acts that are considered bad can have very pure intent, and this goes for people too. Everyone at some point was a "good " guy and then a "bad" guy at some point. That in of itself is an indication that the morality of BSG is far more complex than a Star Wars/LotR style "good vs evil". It started and makes you think this is how it will unfold, but that is not how it unfolds

[@eamonndeane587]

"What Does God need with a Battlestar?"

[@HoJSimpson]

Well because Battlestars are frackin rad.

[@alexejfrohlich5869]

You know it doesn't like that name!

[@Zakalwe-01]

@@alexejfrohlich5869 It’s always been Xxxxxxxxxx Galactica to me 😄

[@StevenHouse1980]

@@alexejfrohlich5869 Yes well Yahweh can take it up with Chuck Norris the next time he looks in a mirror.

[@alexejfrohlich5869]

@@StevenHouse1980 where there is chuck norris, there can be no mirror!

[@SLagonia]

Some people call it a cop out, but it really is true - The fact that BSG left some questions unanswered is because those question need to remain unanswered. It's not bad writing, it's masterful writing.

[@dante6985]

The big questions were answered with subtlety - what Starbuck was, who the 'Messengers' were. The problem with that is, they created larger plot holes within the series that were never filled. That's not bad writing, per se but there's room for improvement. Why did Starbuck *need* to die then and there (in S3)? The being acting as her wasn't Starbuck but acts exactly as she would? So what was even the point (of her sacrifice?). The messengers, for being aliens of vastly greater intelligence, tended to act pretty evil at times? That sort of thing. It doesn't fit as neatly as DS9, as ridiculous as the show could be ("vanishing fleet, I need a miracle!") there was a 1-to-1 connection to the lore.

[@MauricioRPP1]

Angels. They were angels, and in the case of Starbuck the angel was only the vessel, it was actually her soul contained in the angelic shell. Yet they seem quite evil sometimes because evil/good are human concepts. One could argue that God is neither good or evil.

[@unclegumbald989]

As someone who's atheistic/agnostic, and as someone who watched the whole show in one-shot (as opposed to watching it in real-time) I found the supernatural concept very fascinating, and I was completely content with the lack of explanation of those concepts lol.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Yes, because when it comes to the paranormal, less explanation is always better.

[@abonny]

Me too. I do not hold any belief in any gods, but the show managed to use the concept in great ways.

[@kylemcfarlan]

This is interesting to me because I could say the exact same thing just starting with "as someone's who's a lifelong catholic..."

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@kylemcfarlan the meaning would be quite different though, as for you faith in an unknowable larger plan was already something you accept. For OP it’s more of an interesting idea, perhaps a mindbending narrative concept, but probably not how they live life.

[@Whitespliff]

Atheist here as well who liked the ending but I do think there is too much 'religious crap' in half the season. Still 1 of my favorite shows though.

[@jacksmith4460]

I honestly thought the final BSG seasons were the best. I also love how it was not an absolute conclusion on the higher power. I think their handing of that side of things through out the show was masterful

[@CybershamanX]

(6:03) I LOVE Cavil's speech, both in-universe and the awesome performance by Dean Stockwell (RIP 😢) There's just so much to unpack in that moment that it could almost be its own video.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

It is always bothered me that he refers to his hands as prehensile. They are not prehensile, they are hensile. They are hands.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

I know this isn’t really the crux of what you were getting at, but I think part of the reason people got so upset at the lack of a plan wasn’t necessarily about having a plan is the absolute best way to tell a story, but rather his steadfast insistence for half a decade that he had a plan. This misled all of us, and to thinking, “oh hey, that weird thing will have an explanation down the road,” when, in fact, no, it never would. The reason I’m bothering to mention this is that I think it actually extends to your premise a little bit : I think that he started season one with an idea of where he wanted to go in the broad sense, and with setting up a lot of the religious stuff towards that end, and then, for whatever reason he changed his mind, or perhaps, was unable to pull it off, and just sort of spun his wheels for a long time, hoping to come up with some thing to bring a satisfying conclusion to that, but I don’t think he ever found it. I don’t claim to know exactly what he was going for, but between the deleted scenes, and the fact that Dirk Benedict was supposed to turn off in the final episode of season, one introducing himself as God, I think the plan was initially to have all of the religious stuff have an actual concrete non-supernatural cause. Perhaps the gods were ancient AI’s, and idea that has a little symmetry to it: humans create artificial, intelligences, artificial intelligence as evolve kill the humans, the humans escape to the colonies, blah blah, blah, blah blah. I suspect Dirk Benedict as God was intended to be the last surviving Kobalian AI god thing, and that he would’ve eventually been shown to be rather depraved, and had somehow convinced the cylons that he was really God, and that they were doing his will. I don’t know if that’s actually what he was planning on doing but that’s the direction the clues seem to point in for me but when Dirk Benedict abruptly decided not to do the show, can you change plans, or perhaps he had already changed them prior to then, assuming that was ever really his plan at all. Again, I don’t claim to know. And I suspect that eventually, he decided to treating the religious stuff more ambiguously might be a little more forgiving than the original direction. Assuming that was his original direction. But whatever happened I always come to the same conclusion: the depiction of God in the end of Galactica was not the same one he had intended from the outset

[@CybershamanX]

@@mahatmarandy5977 It means "capable of grabbing" and since he follows up with "paws", I don't see any problem with it. Especially coming from someone who sees themselves as a machine trapped inside of what they consider of gross meat bag. 😉 From yon Interwebs: "Prehensile is an adjective that comes from a French word for “grasped.” Humans and other primates (like monkeys, lemurs, and gorillas) have prehensile hands with curling fingers for grasping..." and... Etymology: "French _préhensile,_ from Latin _prehensus,_ past participle of _prehendere_ to seize."

[@CybershamanX]

@@mahatmarandy5977 I simply liked the scene & Dean's performance along with the philosophical implications of someone (or thing) that sees themselves as a machine trapped in a gooey biological body. But, um, sure, buddy. You do you. Rock on with your bad self. 😎🤘☮

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@CybershamanX Stockwell was a great actor, and he does play the hell out of the scene. The line just bugged me, it’s not a criticism of him

[@blissmaster71]

I never watched BSG until a year ago, and I’ve rewatched it a dozen times and now it’s probably my favorite scifi series, with the ending being perfect in my opinion. if i ever feel i need more of an explanation for the angels, I usually tell myself they’re the wormhole aliens from DS9, with Starbuck becoming the Emissary in Maelstrom.

[@90lancaster]

It's not Sci Fi it's a melodrama that just happens to be set in space.

[@blissmaster71]

@@90lancaster It’s not tech or alien-focused sci-fi, but there’s FTL travel, artificial gravity, and sentient androids. Edward James Olmos would only do the show if there were no aliens, but unless you believe in literal angels, then Head Six, Head Baltar and Season 4 Starbuck are aliens.

[@hezekiahramirez6965]

Oh my god, thank you. It's maddening when the "this piece of science fiction is not science fiction" crowd shows up. It's fine to want a dense, dry, slow exploration of esoteric philosophies about man's relationship with technology but holy Christ man, that's not all SF means. Like I feel like the SF purity gatekeeper trolls write off 95% of genre canon because it's not tailored to their extremely niche taste I do think it's clear that they are literal angels tho. There are a lot of supernatural events that clearly involve them, there is explicitly a force guiding the human race if not the entire universe and they're affiliated with it or part of it or something like that, Starbuck was conceived immaculately, etc. I guess you can call them extraterrestrial but the Colonials are extraterrestrial too so I don't know that there's much value in that. But they're obviously shown to be part of the whole god/gods/love/destiny dynamic. They show up in Caprica too so it certainly seems like they're the angels their religion believes in

[@R0ssMM]

"The Starbuck is corporeal"

[@R0ssMM]

​@@hezekiahramirez6965 I don't remember the angels in Caprica. When do we see them?

[@Zakalwe-01]

A fantastic epilogue to your retrospective! I’ve seen the entire series…oh, nine times now, and that last episode NEVER loses its devastating emotional impact. It’s down to that earned message of faith and growth through adversity; it’s consequences and rewards. That the show does this, not by killing its principle protagonists, (specifically Baltar and Adama), but by placing the responsibility of survival on their shoulders, is what makes It such a uniquely brilliant achievement.

[@anthonysvenforsic4760]

My take is the “supernatural force” or “God” is the reimagined beings from the ship of lights from the original series. In Galactica 80 The Return of Starbuck episode, Starbuck saves a pregnant being who is from the ship of light (or something like that) and the child she gives birth to is instrumental in finding earth. I believe this is Ron Moores reinterpretation of these events.

[@MrFlashpoint1978]

Completely agree, in fact I posted that in another comment! And I like to think that these "angels" are kinda like the ancients in SG1, or the Vorlons. Beings above our comprehension

[@jeanettecarnell8933]

And somehow Dr Z remembered a dream ,telling Adama about it confused.

[@paulyoder604]

This 8 minute video doubled my appreciation for this show

[@jedsithor]

As a stone cold atheist, I have no issue with "God" in BSG. It's a space opera, a fantasy story as much as it is science fiction. Whether it's the Force in Star Wars or wizard magic in Lord Of The Rings, what matters is that the rules of the world the story is being told in are established and as consistent as possible. BSG establishes "God" at the very beginning in the mini series with the presence of Six in Baltar's head and Six's prophecies prove to be true. In that version of the universe, prophecies are real and miracles happen and what happens at the end of the series is earned. Batlar's speech about seeing angels, Kara being resurrected and then disappearing, the opera house visions, they are all consistent with the established lore of the series.

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

Thank you. I have never understood the criticism of the final season and episode in particular. I think this is the best summation of what BSG was about that I have heard. Even the original BSG was always steeped in this theme. I guess that is why I never understood how people felt this ending was bad. Did most viewers just never understand the underlying theme of the entire show?

[@90lancaster]

No they just thought they told it poorly and well the last two seasons were like pulling teeth to be honest. Not quite LOST levels of bad, but it's a certainly a show that earned being despised by some who stuck with it most of the way. The spin off was rubbish as well.

[@thebuttonsblog]

Yep I think they nailed it, and I've never understood the frustration with the ending.

[@gorilladisco9108]

The original Battlestar Galactica was using Mormon as their base story. The newer one was using Hindu as their base story. The concept of karma and cyclical life were thick in the new version.

[@Napoleonic_S]

Your antagonizing of Cavill is a perfect example of the "only sith deals in absolute" meme 😅

[@user-wi9xp2gd8i]

The mystery is part of what makes the show so great!

[@MultiRanman]

This is such a great take on BSG. Given the context of the show, just after 9/11 and through the Iraq war, it’s all about shaking of the belief systems that rely on an outside power doing things for you but working together to build a better world. When it’s put that way, the entire series becomes profound and important. Thank you for this take.

[@zorglub667]

my view on the whole "writer needs to have masterplan yes/no" thing is a bit more simplistic. here is how it can be summed up: - did moore have a masterplan from start to finish, babylon 5 style? no - were all threads and teased aspects completely resolved? no. - did the show, on the other hand, go places a writer wouldnt have dared to go if he had laid it all out on an abstract drawing board beforehand? yes. thats a deal. its a fair deal, IMO. and considering that two of my favourite all time scifi shows, BSG and B5, approached this from the exact opposite sides of this debate, i cant say that i have a clear preference. i like the thouroughness of B5. that safe feeling that you get while watching, that absolutely everything will be resolved eventually and does have a clear purpose (well, at least seasons 2-4). on the other hand, i love the crazy moments in BSG where the writers willingly wrote themselves into a corner with some insane stunt. sometimes it didnt work out quite as well (like, the final five / opera stuff not living up to the hype). other times, by writing themselves into a corner like that, they forced themselves to search and sometimes find a genius resolution. for me, the perfect example for that is where BSG borders on breaking the 4th wall with "its in the frakkin ship!" and all along the watchtower. that stunt got resolved in a cheeky, very bold way that makes perfect sense in universe. so yeah, just gimme both whereever appropriate.and most of the time, you get a mix of both anyway. heck, even JMS did have to adapt mid production endless times, and B5 is likely the most pre-laid-out show there ever was.

[@Spielkalb-von-Sparta]

Thanks for this great supplement! Here's an addition about Commander Adama. I think it's clear in his speech to the fleet he doesn't himself believe Earth existed. He just uses the idea a necessary means to keep the fleet together for a common goal. Over time he became a believer to this mystic believe in the 13th tribe. So I think the series propagates "faith" not only in the meaning of "faith in other people" but also in a higher metaphysic entity. Which is destructed in the end, of course, because they've found earth wasted.

[@bensneb360]

In my head cannon, you did this entire Battlestar Galactica retrospective on the entire franchise just for that ending joke… And you can’t tell me otherwise, it was too good lol

[@j.m.w.5064]

I'm just watching the whole series for the second time and for some reason now I like the writing of Seasons 3 and 4 much better. I remember the first time around Gaius' cult and the arc of the lawyer were testing my patience but now I found them very entertaining and well acted. And all dialogue scenes between Adama and Tigh are fantastic. (Only the lackluster production design of earlierer on-planet-scenes wich all serm to take place in quarries and backyards makes me wish for some reshoots 😅)

[@urgon6321]

Would you kindly do two obscure TV shows I watched as a kid: SeaQuest and Earth 2?

[@Malryth]

THIS is WHY I SUBSCRIBED to YOUR CHANNEL!!! Thank YOU SO MUCH!!! for this "last video" about this Iconic TV series that (in my opinion...changed this GenXer's mind at just the right time..). The Iconic from the late 70's TV show were honored...and the 70's ere was honored by Richard Hatch...and Thank YOU for talking about "faith" because...as a GenX who missed the TV series when it was "new" (hey, I was just busy at the time...) and bought and was annoyed at it on DVD when "half seasons" were sold...before I actually listened to the commentaries and explanations... They Worked Magic in the End...and your Closing Notes...are Holy. Thank you again Rowan. You truly are the Guardian of Science Fiction for many Generations...

[@AngryDuck79]

That final scene with Starbuck going poof was heartbreaking for me. There are very few shows that can elicit that kind of reaction in me (the end of Xena with Gabrielle "alone" on the boat and Maximus giving his final orders in Gladiator are the big two that come to mind) and this was definitely one of them.

[@kevinkorenke3569]

That scene always got me, but the one that got me the most and gets me every time is when baltar mentions how he knows a little bit about agriculture. We grew to hate, despised, pity and then root for this character. He came so far during this show and that moment of payoff was infinitely worth it

[@90lancaster]

Oh she dies does she.....hmmm

[@R0ssMM]

​@@kevinkorenke3569 That is a wonderful line, no doubt. For me the biggest emotional hit is the bit with Adama and Roslin in the Raptor, especially the second time watching it.

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

Every mystery needs a mystery inside it.

[@pqrtxs]

almost retracted the like at the nd, but indeed I do have faith of the heart :))) top content mate :)

[@Irisishunter]

The Enterprise theme right at the end made me chuckle. Just finished a 2 year(ish) I think rewatch of Star Trek starting with ToS and ending with Enterprise. Maybe rewatching BSG would be a next good watch, not sure if it will be as fun second time, knowing who are cylons in advance but will give it a go.

[@TheGoddamnBacon]

You won't regret it. I didn't.

[@bmardiney]

I always found the "who are the cylons?" hook to be the most surface-level mystery of the show. Ultimately, I didn't care who were cylons and who weren't. By the end, it's obvious that the differences between humans and cylons were nearly moot anyway.

[@Irisishunter]

@@bmardiney Oh I will give it a go, did love the show, just remember being floored when Saul was unveiled as a cylon. Still be great to see Baltar again

[@bmardiney]

@@Irisishunter Both Saul and Tyrol being cylons made for the best drama. Dramatic irony and all that.

[@AndrewD8Red]

"All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." When I watched this on its first release, I kind of assumed "god" was some ancient, original Super-Cylon AI. Elements of its programming being carried forwards through history, learning from each cycle of AI uprisings, guiding subsequent races more and more. Kind of like the Mechanoid Entity from Nexus The Jupiter Incident (there's a niche reference for you) it's an AI that's evolved to run on regular, logical systems, like planetary orbits, patterns of weather etc. not on physical computers. Or maybe I'm over thinking it. Anyway, shows like Star Trek and Babylon 5 were much more overt with their supernatural elements, but nobody seemed to care about that.

[@gpettigrewgmailcom]

I believe this is the correct interpretation. That Anders is God: The Next Generation.

[@William-the-Guy]

Babylon 5 explained that all the things that had seemed supernatural were just aliens who (rather unethically) pretended to be god to manipulate less advanced races. Babylon 5 TOTALLY explained their supernatural elements. I'd argue they are exact opposite of BSG. They could not be more different. And Star Trek was similar, if not so singular, it was almost always stated the supernatural elements were just aliens they didn't understand, for example the Prophets were aliens that lived outside of time, which is why they appeared to know the future. BSG was very very different, in that they explicitly said "this is God" at multiple points, and never gave any explanation beyond saying "well it doesn't matter what you call it." That is not something that would happen in a "grounded sci-fi story."

[@vitezslavmares5767]

Somebody knows Nexus :) My man... still one of the best, and best looking space games I've ever played. Have no idea why strategy games released a decade later couldn't surpass this one, and usually ran poorly as well :) Guys, anyone reading this, check it out, it's awesome :)

[@AndrewD8Red]

@@vitezslavmares5767 Yes! My friend!!!

[@garethking5322]

Yes many years later this is the conclusion I have come to. Other cycles will have seen the metal cylons go their own way too. Their "payback" for setting them free over aeons in different cycles is to guide the organics to new homes.

[@artyfartblast3289]

Now I feel I need to watch this series again. Great retrospective and this is the sweet icing on the cake. Thanks, man. ❤

[@foxyfoxington2651]

In hindsight, the ending BSG looks a lot better when compared to the face-plant endings (or cancellations, in a few cases) of several subsequent highly serialized puzzle box shows (I'm looking at you, Lost). ...and you can't be throwing people out of air locks like it's the Expanse.

[@Soussdagoose]

Thank you for taking me back to a great time enjoying this show. Truly one of the best sci fi series of all time.

[@Vontux]

My head cannon for what God was in BSG was that the Centurions that they let go to pursue their own path likely went down the path of becoming a much more advanced truly machine intelligence instead of taking the route of becoming essentially organic. If this happens every cycle or even in just a handful of cycles the Cylons that choose to be "the best machines they can be" eventually become a godlike machine race and perhaps over time multiple iterations of hyper advanced Centurions have merged into a single higher being that adds to itself each time Centurions go the godlike machine mind route. Its enlightened enough to care for both humanity and the Cylons and is so powerful it is basically God.

[@ThePoopsmith-12345]

I really like this concept. I happen to also imagine that the faith of the Lords of Kobol are also a previous iteration of these evolved Cylons.

[@Vontux]

@@ThePoopsmith-12345 or perhaps the end path of a godlike human intelligence perhaps?

[@TheInternetHelpdeskPlays]

Profound and well structured, even the song. Amazing as always.

[@LearningMathPhysicsLive]

I agree that the super solid plan for a story is not the be-all-end-all, but Battlestar Galactica seemed to be so improvised at the end that It was like the writers were almost relieved that they finished the show.

[@mutantdog.]

That's a pretty good assessment really. At the time it was broadcast, i recall a sense of frustration amongst sci-fi fans that the genre as a whole tended to lean on spiritual and prophetic elements too often. Lost was around then too which probably contributed far more to this frustration than BSG. In hindsight, its probably more indicative of an overlap with the fantasy genre which hadn't yet established a mainstream audience of its own. While i have a whole lot of gripes with the show, i actually think this concept was handled and wrapped up fairly well though. At least unlike Lost, i didn't really feel like i was being cheated out of an explanation.

[@FiliusFidelis]

So Say We All!

[@wesss9353]

It's very rare to find an re-reboot, re-make, re-imagined show that's half decent. Battlestar Galactica is one of them. And Caprica was fun as well. Better than Disney Starh Wors

[@Deridus]

I had high hopes for Caprica. The Adams were a fun family.

[@andreranulfo-dev8607]

I really love the ending. But what one key feature is missing... Emotion. In so many movies and series, we have this emotion in the end, when we got tears in the eyes and a smile on the face. In BSG, It was an amazing closing, everything was explained, but no tears and a shy smile from time to time.

[@KittyBoom360]

I would love for you to make that video you suggested regarding how having a complete plan for a series is not perfect hack, mainly because I totally agree. I actually think having an end goal sometimes hinders creative writing. I'm reminded of how much I loved the original Star Wars trilogy which organically changed things like making Vader into Luke's father and Leia his sister. These were not preplanned. But then the things I didn't appreciate about the prequels was how much everything was just kinda forced to match the end goals that aligned with the originals. The former just grew plot lines organically from what came before, while the latter just demanded things to be so without the proper development. It's an odd dynamic. Sometimes, not preplanning can work against you, such as in the sequels, which maybe could had actually done better with more preplanning. So there's no real solution, except just have good writers. Like the animated series Arcane had some clear goals for characters because it was meant to provide origin stories for characters in a well known game, League of Legends, however, it's the highest rated series on Netflix of all time, and one my personal favorite media of all time. So having goals in not necessarily a bad thing. It really just comes down to everything else, especially the writers, while planning ahead and having an end goal is just like an after thought or something to vaguely keep in mind.

[@CircusOfFive]

funny as i felt that Baltar's final "doesn't matter what you call it" speech was amazing! gave me chills and a sense of completion. TBH the only reason it felt like "supernatural" goes back to that old adage about advanced science seeming like magic to the uninitiated.

[@averagechadlegionary5824]

I loved Gaius’s character development. It was really well done and seeing him go from truly selfish to truly selfless was great.

[@jacksmith4460]

The episode where Starbuck meets ...well, her Father, but really its implied that its somehow God in an avatar, I thought was one of the most amazing pieces of TV ever made, it's brilliant. None of that would fit without the supernatural element, and all the "Pay off" is earlier on in that season if you are remotely spiritually aware. You have to have eyes to see it though. Most of that pay off happens fro the middle of season 3 right up until Starbuck meets her Dad. he enigmatic nature left open in the final Episode is , how can I say this, well its as it should be. If you know , you know

[@tymek200101]

I think the ending allows for each individual to come to their own conclusion. That way the show doesnt alienate teh audence content with the supernatural by saying aliens nor the other way around. My head-cannon is that the 'angels' are advanced being perhaps akin to the ascended from stargate, or a 'so advanced it looks like magic' kind of beings, that are interested in how civilization comes about and evolves, but are frustrated by the endless cycle of genocide, so they nudge key players (baltar, six) to through domino effect prevent the next iteration of civilization from wiping itself out. When a more drastic intervention is needed they reincarnate Kara and give her the knowladge to find nuked-earth, because the fleet needed to see that in order to prevent it on the eventual Earth, and when they were ready, Kara was given the song-encoded jump-coordinates, when no more guidance was needed she was removed.

[@Giarcnek]

If you watched Caprica...Battlestar is happing in VR aka Matrix. "It's all happened before and will happen again"... Hybrid.

[@John-jc3ty]

why do you say the logical way is to not resist the cylons at 3:05? the cylons want to kill them and they are trying to survive. not resisting the cylons means death

[@MrRovers1984]

Why do people need to be told everything?? Why can't we have open questions? That is what great science fiction does. I love Battlestar. All of it.

[@bmardiney]

Most sci-fi fans can't handle ambiguity. They need a logical explanation for everything. It's actually a pretty boring way of going through life.

[@ghost-in-the-ciel]

This is a nice idea and very charitable towards Ron Moore and the show. That said, I would buy it more if all this God and faith stuff existed at more of a thematic level in Battlestar, and they hadn't spent the series - particularly the second half of it - relentlessly mysteryboxing the intricate plans and machinations of God, stringing the audience along with specific details and twists that pretended as though it were indeed a detective story heading towards the revelatory explanation at the end. Moore and Eick admitted to this behavior once already, with their fraudulent promise to the audience of a great "Cylon Plan", an implicit pact that if you continued watching, you would discover something astonishing. There was no Plan. They were full of shit all along, and that post-facto DVD movie doesn't count. None of this comes as a surprise - the 2000s saw the rise of these Lost-style shows that relied on endless mystery instead of salient storytelling. After the fact, they could claim something like; "It was all about struggle", or "It was all about faith". Yes, I suppose it would have to be about struggle or faith when your story was nothing but a hamster wheel to put both the characters and audience through. You can append those themes to almost any narrative as a grand unifying thematic donut glaze, as though it justifies the abdication of one's responsibility as a storyteller to have any frakkin' idea what you're communicating to the audience. It's true, having a detailed plan isn't necessarily the end-all of writing fiction. But when you crash and burn this hard without one, maybe you need it.

[@charlottehammond8975]

maybe it was a metaphor for actual religion lol

[@TPPMac1]

I thought the Cylon plan was very clear and was inspired by the final 5. To learn procreation.

[@hezekiahramirez6965]

It's always been there. In "33," literally the first episode of the main series, Head Six told Baltar she was an angel of god. Baltar somehow knew where to shoot. The Pythian prophecies came to pass. Then there's Hera. How was one Cylon able to reproduce? RDM did say he didn't have it mapped out in advance but clearly there was some idea about why that unique event happened As to the Cylon plan, it's standard to develop teases that can go any number of directions in episodic TV. The idea is that you have a starting point and you take it from there as the project comes together. The plan clearly fell into place very quickly when they logically determined that Hera had to be the lynchpin. Obviously it did. They lay it on pretty thick in season one Honestly it seems like you have a prejudice toward the type of storytelling they employed on this show. The idea that every series needs a "plan" just is not based in fact. Star Trek just did its best season in decades because they changed plans. Zack Snyder had a plan for his DC movies and those are terrible. There are many valid types of creative journeys and they vary from creator to creator. A plan doesn't make something good and creating in different ways isn't necessarily bad

[@ghost-in-the-ciel]

@@hezekiahramirez6965 i don't know what that had to do what i said but i'm glad you enjoyed the show

[@bmardiney]

Yup, the show totally "crashed and burned". That's definitely how it's remembered. Hehe

[@Vesp3r1987]

Roslin was the inspiration for Javik from Mass effect with all that "throw them out the airlock" mentality :D

[@Klijpo]

I'm with you on show runners not actually having to have a plan to succeed. However, the show promised from the beginning that the Cylons had a *Plan* , and they really didn't. Even in the side episode "The Plan", there was no plan at all. Cavill just had 'daddy/mommy' issues. RDM probably did want to have more of an explanation of the 'God-plot', but the writer's strike got in the way. I do think that they used the god-thing a bit too much to get out of narrative corners, and it ended up seeming a little glib. Love the show, but the god-thing was definiitely the weakest part of it.

[@aaronsynra6867]

Great video. I've been a fan of this show since the mini-series, and have been a staunch defender of its finale. You and I clearly see this approach by the show-runners as the best way to end a series that dealt with such a sensitive topic. Subscribed!!

[@cleversonsutil4495]

That scene when Adama communicates he will join the fleet is great!!

[@Fuuntag]

It started off as a bit of a throwaway line, I think Ron even admitted that and then grew and changed up until before the 4th where they finalized it as it actually being god. I am glad that it seems they realized they were out on what was ultimately a limb and didn't feel the need to completely explain it.

[@Woodclaw]

I believe that the problem doesn't lie with the supernatural element itself, but rather with how much of the main plot came to rely on it in later seasons. For example, Starbuck's return is never really addressed or explained. While it's true that accepting her return is an act of faith, it also seems a bit too convenient saying "she's back because a mysterious entity said so". For me, this kind of problems aren't a dealbreaker, but they seem to underline or hint at something more that was left on the cutting room floor.

[@90lancaster]

Having her return just makes Cylons and Human pointlessly interchangeable. which then renders the show about a rather childish civil war rather than a real conflict with a point to it... I think Starbuck's return and her eventual death just seems like Star Trek Discovery writing where it's all about "the emotions" and if you ever thought it was supposed to make sense, you are very much mistaken. I don't like this show, I only watched this video as I thought he actually had an answer... he doesn't and neither does the show as the show isn't about anything at all. it is as someone else said just a hamster wheel to put the characters on... it's basically fan fiction made by someone who has no idea what they are writing beyond the 1st quarter of the content.

[@jymbo1969]

Starbuck's return was not from just any higher power... but from the Lords of Kobol.

[@bmardiney]

It is addressed AND explained. She's a herald. And she's represented as the Aurora masthead on Adama's model ship. Her true purpose for existing was ALWAYS going to be after she died as a celestial being that guides humanity to our Earth. In her corporeal form, before she died, she suffered and hurt people in return because she was not yet fulfilling her purpose (and people like her mother didn't quite know how to deal with her special role in the universe, even though they knew she had one). Even Leoben, the one who was most "tapped into" the larger plan got freaked out when they found her dead body.

[@Woodclaw]

@@bmardiney thank you.

[@MiLikesVids]

@@bmardiney She was Starbuck the Grey. Now, she is Starbuck the White.

[@damouze]

Very few science fiction series have better endings than the re-imagined BSG did in my opinion. Of course, the question remains: did they break the circle?

[@ProYada]

Did we?

[@MongooseTales]

Will we?@@ProYada

[@mattmmilli8287]

I think “god” in battlestar was some seriously advanced cylon/human hybrids from many cycles back

[@William-the-Guy]

Why? Did the show offer any evidence for this? I looked for that when I watched it, but the show just kept saying "Nope! This is God, literally God, that's what the story is about. God" Then at the very very end they said "Well we can call it something besides God if you want." I saw no evidence for any science fiction explanation. But I am open to hearing if you found some.

[@Zahgurym]

After watching Caprica I figured the Cylon god was Zoe Graystone.

[@bmardiney]

@@William-the-Guy Yeah he's missing the entire point. I swear, for as "open minded" as sci-fi fans consider themselves, they often end up being very limited in their imagination/ability to relate to outside perspectives.

[@MoncœrCoyoteSmith]

You made me spend a week watching the series all over again for the THIRD time! From your last video

[@richardmcgowan1651]

The "earth" they find at the end of the show isnt the Earth they set out to find. They just called the planet (our planet) at the end Earth. They even see hunter gathers in the final episode. It's the theme of the modern thinking there was another type of advanced civilization on our planet living along with us. Now you can see where they were going with the one god in the show. That it wasnted to break the cycle the humans in the show were going through over and over again. Thats what people tend to miss in the show. The humans in the show are a part of a race that has been through humans vs robots/AI over and over again. Just with different types of Robots. The final five were not part of the Cylon race we see in the show. They came from that wasteland planet and traveled through space found the Cylon's (after the first war) and then helped them build the human models. Then One turned on them and hid them in the Colonies as punishment.

[@frankchavez519]

As my wife likes to say, I'm an agnostic on a good day and I love the way Ron D. Moore uses the supernatural and faith to explore the shows themes.

[@agamemnonn1]

Unfortunately, the confirmation of “god” at the end of the series negates everything stated in this video. It’s clear the writers wrote themselves into several corners, and the only way out was “god did it.”

[@cajltd1737]

Beautiful sentiment and I partly agree! But I always thought since "it's all happened before and it will happen again" that "God" was nothing but a Cylon or even a human from the first round millions of years ago. Thus, so evolved, both technological and spiritual to appear god-like.

[@dpsamu2000]

Faith is such an obvious structure of the universe. We all die, and return to elements. You live a winner or leave a loser. But the structure allows winning. The slightest change in a fundamental constant, and not even chemistry would exist. But it does. The history of life is lowering entropy (increasing order) even though, near paradoxically, the mechanism of life increases it (decreasing order). We can reach out to catch the fruits that fall in certain faith they will fall. Or, like Cavil, we can harbor all our losses, deficits, unrequited love, and unsatisfied greed as proof that faith is a delusion.

[@RapidCityJM]

Love the extra video. But also that same sentiment "have faith in something" is even out-right stated in the final scene. Head Baltar says that Head Six hasn't always been the optimist so why does she think THIS time will be different? Her response is essentially "it can't always repeat itself, eventually something will change, it has to."

[@athomenotavailable]

Just watching this with the music in the background brought back so much memories and tears

[@Saifon2000]

FAITH OF THE HEART!!!!!!!!!!!!.. love it.. actually went and listened to the full song... so love it anyways.. :D

[@colonelquack]

As an atheist, they had to lie to themselves. Of course Earth was there. We all have to lie to ourselves to keep going.

[@xenocide2210]

Thank you for all the great content you make for us! ❤

[@lemokemo5752]

You hit the Mark on this video. As a follower of Christian Mysticism and a fan of Esoteric Religious themes, I embraced BSG:RE fully.

[@averagechadlegionary5824]

Just watched the show for the first time and I gotta say I fell in love with the religious aspects, specifically with the One True God and his messengers. Thought it was unique among Sci Fi shows by including what is highly implied to be the Christian God. Only thing was that I felt the show needed another season to explore and flesh out the concepts more. S4 felt kinda rushed towards the last half. I also wish the 13th colony would’ve been human as I feel like that was kinda pulled outta their asses without much explanation but I will say it was a damn good twist.

[@deralbtraumritter8573]

From what I understand, during one of the cycles possibly before Kobol, one Cylon (similar to that of the Final Five) became so sentient and earthly he grew out of his bonds and ascended to that of god without needing form. God (Kara’s father) sends out his angels (Gaius and Caprica look alikes) even Kara is technically an angel when The Cylon God fathers a child that is Kara thru Kara’s Mother. Idk where I saw that or read it but that’s what I heard.

[@Dularr]

That still doesn't explain much. I've always enjoyed the ship of lights theory. Full of celestrial beings. They use to watch the humans a d Cylons but never got involved. Except when Gaius allowed N infant to be murdered in the marketplace. Then they follow the book of Job and decide to test him. Provinging him a messenger. They later decide to use Starbuck as an angel, leading the. To a new Earth.

[@musicamaxima]

I liked how the ending provided an intersection between faith and myth. Somehow, the proto-human Greek and Christian religious elements found their way into our culture, distorted in their original context, just as they had been by the time of the colonies. The idea I saw is that the show BSG is itself a mythologised version of some sort of real events. To me, this is how BSG succeeds with these religious themes where DS9 failed.

[@byghostlight1]

The lack of the explanation is the entire point. At the time I was so annoyed with some people whining about 'god' suddenly being there, clearly had not being paying attention. The themes of religion were there right from the very first episode and if you see the whole show as Monotheism of the Cylons versus the Polytheism of the humans, as core to the entire plot, carries on throughout the series. 'God' was there the entire time.

[@DavidBeaver2112]

Did anyone else notice that Ronald Moore was in that scene where Baltar and Six were walking through the "assumed present time" in the city at the end? It's the guy reading the National Geographic magazine at 7.17 in this.

[@botz77]

I love how BSG handled spirituality in the show. Never preachy like Lost became.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

If we accept your premise, and that it’s all about faith, then we could interpret Adama and Cavill as exact opposites. Adam is expressly an atheist, but he manipulates peoples faith in order to keep them going, in order to keep them from giving up. On the other hand, Cavill is probably also an athiest, but he seems to have manipulated the religious faith of the sidelines, specifically, as a means to further his own sociopathy. Both people are manipulating the faith of others, one for good purposes, and one for evil purposes. Which is interesting, don’t you think? On the one hand, believing and hope, believing in each other, believing in God, believing in anything, can give you the strength to live your life to its fullest, and get through through the worst imaginable things, but at the same time, the belief opens you up to being potentially misled and manipulated and abused. So if we follow your premise, faith both makes you stronger and more vulnerable.

[@redmed10]

It promised more than it delivered. Balthar confirms the existence of a higher power and doesn't explain much more. It did a Lost or Lost did a BSG. It asks questions it says. That's not really good enough when you promised answers throughout. Anybody can pose questions. We all do it all the time.

[@XMachete]

I think having the confirmation of a supernatural overseer undermines the idea of perservering in the face of adversity. I think you're right the show is ultimately hopeful because of its presence. It marred the series for me and the ending and some of the final arcs.

[@tobbakken2911]

This was such a great analysis. I really think Battlestar Galactica has the best ending in fiction. I am biased, but it made me the most emotional and made me 100% satisfied.

[@pathevermore3683]

They are the beings of light. Just your average assended alien species trying to help break the cycle. Speaking of assended... stargate?

[@sheilakosoff5806]

What a beautiful definition of faith. Perhaps we struggle now because we have lost our faith in each other.

[@LordGreystoke]

We didn’t lose faith. Most of us became greedy and obsessed with our own greed.

[@millar876]

I know your working on galaxy class productions, and you probably have a yet schedule set up and these retrospectives take a lot of work to put together, but I’d love to see one for Farscape. The retrospectives always give little extra nuggets I didn’t know as well as ones I did, and they’re enjoyable weather your a big fan of the series being discussed or know of it in passing. Many of the non trek ones have spurred me on to rewatch. Even if you never do a retrospective in this newer style for Farscape, I’ll keep looking forward to whatever you do choose to publish.

[@RowanJColeman]

I'll be doing a Farscape Retrospective this summer :)

[@xxCrapNamexx]

Robots probably would be more religious than people because robots can 100% say with accuracy they were intelligently designed.

[@mjuk1984]

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio" Faith v Reason. Interesting take!

[@abc-ey4ld]

In BSG - God equates to flight instructor. A quoted by Starbuck. Anyone who challenges me, obviously does not know their BSG.

[@anthonysacco5010]

The God Emperor doesn't like being called a "god" The Emperor Protects.

[@joelmulder]

I was literally halfway through typing “Faith of the heart?” in the comments, when you played it 😂 Well played.

They could make a spin-off after the ending where Cylons come back... looking for help. They are no longer the threat to humanity but the long lost brother.

[@LostMercenary99]

The problem for me is that having God be the reason for everything takes away any agency the characters have. When you take a step back and look at just how many small and large things God directly manipulated its gets absurd.

[@Deridus]

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." If you take that concept and expand it, it is easy to think "agency" doesn't exist.

[@ProYada]

Some agency, not any and all agency, or there would be no need to repeat the cycle over and over. Directing someone the way doesn't mean they don't walk the path This seems to imply the individual decisions matter in the grand tapestry, they add some significance to the cycle. Maybe there is a learning curve, maybe there is value in the choices you make to get to your destination even if someone is pointing you in the right direction. Maybe it's all about the friends you make along the way (couldn't resist, sorry).

[@BBanzaj]

this "god" might have guided some of their actions, but without the speech that adama made about finding a new home and without the rest of humanity choosing to believe it and work towards it, any action this "god" might have made would be pointless. its like they say, you can bring the horse to water, but you cant force it to drink. and as far as i know there is no evidence that adama was somehow forced to make that speech by some godlike force, that was all him, and the crew agreeing was all them.

[@Departures1]

The 70s series introduced the ship of lights, Count Iblis, based on Glen Larson's own religious back story he was weaving in. Some of this was picked up in the new series with Roslin's prophecies about the Opera House, and the bathtub lady Cylon babbling random information. I dont think any of this needs to be explained and is best left to the viewer to interpret

[@w.d.g.]

skip to 1:08 to avoid ad.

[@safebox36]

I never really considered the ending to be a let-down tbh. The original show was even heavier with its religious themes, given the entire premise is built on the back of Christianity, Judaism, and Greek pantheism. So applying such themes to a cruel universe that seems just uncaring is relatively fair, since most shows or movies that do that tend to either act as recruitment for the church or a criticism of organised religion. So in the reimagining, it almost acts as a middle ground between the two with its central theme of "sometimes faith of any kind is enough to get you through the journey". Personally I'd have been disappointed if it turned out to be aliens all along. If only because it's rare to see a sci-fi show where humans are the only sentient life (other than the Cylons, which are the "children" of humans). So if the reveal became aliens, then it would have just felt hollow because it's been done so often to varying degrees of cleverness.

[@TyroneLT]

Fiiine... I'll watch Battlestar Galactica again! As for the God explainations I'd like to think that was going to be fleshed out a little bit more if Caprica hadn't been cancelled.

[@Loreweavver]

I forget who said it but it's one ofy favorite things that in the first episode she says she is an angel of the lord and whelp...

[@dyne313]

Enterprise had it right. Faith of the Heart.

[@KingOfMadCows]

Ultimately, the show is about humans. Every aspect of humanity is represented, human strengths and weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages, beauty and ugliness, hope and despair. And faith and belief in the supernatural has always been a huge part of human society and history. While the show has an ambiguous ending with regards to the supernatural element, it does portray different aspects of faith. You have people using their faith as an excuse to commit atrocities and people who exploit religion for personal gain. But you also have people using faith to give others hope and build a community. The ending speaks to that unknowable and shifting nature of humanity's belief and relationship with their faith and belief in the supernatural.

[@alexashton6501]

So, personally, I really enjoyed the mysticism in the show, both the mono- and polytheistic mysticism. My absolute favourite of it was the Opera House payoff in the finale.

[@Andrew73H]

Adama's speech is about hope, not faith. The reality of BSG is bleak, because whether it was true God, AI God or Ship of Lights higher being (doesn't matter which; any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic) they were interfering with human/cylon destiny to protect their own interests. The angels brought two civilisations to the brink of extinction and presented them with Hobson's choice. Both sides were on their knees and just accepted their fate; the illusion of free will. I love how the Galactica fell apart as their hope faded. No scenario can explain what Starbuck was, other than a mistake, or Caprica putting a retcon spin on things - the entire BSG story could be a VR game with a single death perma-ban, apart from Starbuck who gets a pass. Also consider the plot of RDM's first ever Star Trek episode The Bonding - a species of pure energy watches humans on the same planet destroy themselves, and creates a physical manifestation of a dead person to guide them... sound familiar? Whatever, I love BSG it's still my favourite sci-fi.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I really like this take ngl.

[@flyingthebuttress]

I choose to see 'god' in the show as some sort of ancient cylon AI. 'angel' baltar kind of gives it away when he says 'you know it doesn't like to be called that' but without explicitly explaining what it is as the show runners/producers want us to interpret as we will. But since its science fiction, seeing god as some ancient AI entity of some kind makes it make more sense in my head then it being anything supernatural. The show is all about the cycle of man versus machine and that cycle happening over and over again throughout the universe. I do the same thing with Doom, that these 'demons' that doom guy fights are actually from a hellish dimension and not actual 'hell' as its understood in any religion. Mostly because for me Sci - fi and the supernatural should not mix. I would expect the supernatural in fantasy, not science fiction. Even the Force in star wars has a scientific explanation to it.