This is the kind of constructive criticism that would help improve the next iteration of the tech, unlike the complete approval and "can't tell the difference from native" other outlets are telling. Kudos to Alex!
@Gamerzguy24682 жыл бұрын
You mean Hardware Unboxed...
@LordHypnosis2 жыл бұрын
It's incredibly annoying how often that "as good as native" and "better than native" line gets repeated by people now. This tech has become very impressive as it has matured but as we keep seeing with evidence like this there are drawbacks to enabling it.
@soulshot962 жыл бұрын
@@Gamerzguy2468 All they did was once again cement that they're incredibly AMD biased tbh. Calling this shit a DLSS killer is just laughable.
@kingzor1002 жыл бұрын
@@LordHypnosis i dunno man im cosintently finding dlss looking better than native imo
@HalcyonSunset2 жыл бұрын
@@soulshot96 and digital foundry did a marketing stunt for the 3080 before anyone else had access to it, for Nvidia... Sooooo.......
@existentialselkath12642 жыл бұрын
Its nice to see a thorough comparison of upscaling methods in motion. Any temporal method should look great for static shots, unless its completely broken, but we don't see enough comparisons like this that take motion into account. Keep up the great work. if we ever get more comparisons like this in the future, I think pausing on a frame during motion is a great way to show the differences as a lot can be hidden by youtube compression when just showing a looping clip instead
@Spencerwalker212 жыл бұрын
I'm a noob and don't really understand this but will it improve this title and others for the steam deck.
@Scorpwind2 жыл бұрын
Comparisons in motion are indeed very important. But they should mainly be compared with an image that is untouched by anything temporal.
@jc_dogen2 жыл бұрын
@@Scorpwind is that even an option in this game?
@darkdraconis2 жыл бұрын
@@jc_dogen no its not, that's why he's suggesting it I guess...
@SL4PSH0CK2 жыл бұрын
Hardware Unbox did motion comparison 2 months ago
@neocaron872 жыл бұрын
Alex:"No brainer on Nvidia use DLSS" My 1080ti: (crying) On a more serious note, it was a very interesting and detailed analysis. Still think the fact FSR 2.0 works wonders with my 1080ti makes it absolutely awesome. It breathes new life to my GPU, especially playing on a TV. Glad it's there, hope it will keep improving.
@chalpua88022 жыл бұрын
At least you can get a large boost with FSR 2.0 and still get good image stability.
@mohammedsadeq53922 жыл бұрын
My point exactly; I was wondering wether to upgrade to 3000 series or just wait for 4000 rtx series but the wait is killing me and my pc 1080ti can’t match ps5 or series x in certain next gen titles like halo infinite; so with FSR I found many new games playable at max setting with decent image quality
@TheSliderW2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Yet ghosting can be an issue in competitive games as it might be slightly distracting. Still does wonders on Nvidia hardware which is a shame for them X)
@dannonyogurt982 жыл бұрын
But now that GPUs are becoming available you should consider the upgrade. I can't praise DLSS any higher. Trust me if you choose to upgrade to a 3080 you will have zero regrets as long as you pay MSRP or lower.
@JigglypuffTutorials2 жыл бұрын
@@mohammedsadeq5392 don’t wait. power consumption on 4000 series will be horrendous. Unless you don’t care for your energy bills.
@LiNK525002 жыл бұрын
Great video. Honestly I came away being even more impressed with DLSS 2.3.4 than I already was. The fact that it's able to sometimes achieve a more stable image than native is wildly impressive.
@OsaculnenolajO2 жыл бұрын
DLSS is literal magic.
@visceraeyes5252 жыл бұрын
@@OsaculnenolajO its not magic, its a technological application created by and employed by highly intelligent people... you seem like the type of person who would thank god for dlss
@KEVBOYMUSIC2 жыл бұрын
@@visceraeyes525 🙄
@KurtQuad2 жыл бұрын
@@KEVBOYMUSIC not nearly enough eye rolls available for that one
@darkdraconis2 жыл бұрын
@@visceraeyes525 bruh
@masterquake72 жыл бұрын
I think FSR's bigger issue here is that the ghosting messes with animation smoothness.
@thefallen9242 жыл бұрын
agreed. tried playing control on the steam deck with fsr and the ghosting was a bit jarring
@nigelo922 жыл бұрын
The ghosting on transparencies like the particles, but particularly the water textures flat out make it unappealing.
@mrX666-s9p2 жыл бұрын
@@thefallen924 Lol what a joke well you play on a fucking steam deck which is shit running at extremely low resolution.
@SianaGearz2 жыл бұрын
I think less weight needs to be put on detail reconstruction and more on unpleasant artefacts, which FSR 2 seems more prone to.
@madd52 жыл бұрын
Check it out yourself, there are no issues like he's mentioning in the video. At least they are not visible during the gameplay.
@xsct8782 жыл бұрын
@@madd5 cope
@alexanderp45326 ай бұрын
6:41 actually I see the same effect with dlss. It looks a little different than with fsr: it blurs image near the hand while fsr's effect looks sharp
@Manupaya242 жыл бұрын
this type of video is what makes Digital Foundry stand head and shoulders above other media. Great work Alex. Your professionalism is appreciated, and your devotion to your job as well
@madd52 жыл бұрын
They are Nvidia shills. Check out their previous videos. They are sponsored by them. Concerning the issues he mentioned in the video, I didn't notice them during the game.
@madd52 жыл бұрын
@@MowBTC I don't care about FSR, I have rtx 3080.
@Cfreezy122 жыл бұрын
@@madd5 I thought they were too, the way they always point out dlss looking better is funny
@nakkeez28132 жыл бұрын
@@Cfreezy12 How should they do these comparisons then? Show only the static image comparison and tell that DLSS and FSR 2.0 look pretty much the same? It's not "shilling" if they do proper research and share the results and their personal opinions from those results with us. There ARE indeed differences between the two techniques. If those differences don't matter to you then all good but these in-depth comparisons/reviews are pretty much DF's thing and why most followers are here.
@Fusion052 жыл бұрын
@@nakkeez2813 these guys are just trying to cause problems. I think DLSS looks slightly better in some scenes, and FSR looks better in others. It’s all about what perspective. Also it comes down to KZbin compression.
@Decenium2 жыл бұрын
6:50 if you look at DLSS it "Fizzles" as well but it a much shorter distance from the object (arm in this case) so its not something you notice, its like 1 centimeter of fizzle area vs 5 centimeters.
@0M0rty2 жыл бұрын
Yeah. I think DLSS is making a smart choice of making these newly uncovered areas softer before it accumulates enough detail. The slight softness might be noticable but better than shimmer that really draws your eyes.
@Taijifufu2 жыл бұрын
3:50 Late Saturday night: 🦵"So Alex... What do you think?" "There is indeed less image stability in that bush." "Get out."
@danquaza92752 жыл бұрын
I gotta throw it out there, this new FSR update made playing on my Steam Deck wayyy better. At first I didn’t like using it because the image became so chunky and flickery. Now using 2.0 I can actually use it and gain significant benefits from it and not lose major image quality. Definitely a good advancement
@EliteEMan8562 жыл бұрын
DLSS is one of my favorite things to come out in recent years, as far as tech goes. Especially DLSS 2.0+. At this point when a game releases without support for either I find myself a little disappointed. I do play on a 4k monitor with a higher refresh rate, so granted I probably rely on it a little more than most even with a 3080.
@ian2606722 жыл бұрын
Same here, so I stuck with Nvidia for new graphics card. I used a 2060 super in my old PC and found DLSS great as I play on a 50 inch 4k TV. I'm not too interested in raytracing due to the drop in performance using it (even though it does look great when possible) but DLSS did really impress me. I didn't even think about going AMD for graphics because I found DLSS so good.
@ChrisGreeceChris2 жыл бұрын
Dlss when properly implemented gives better looks than original. For example red dead redemption 2 uses taa for antialising which is blurry , when dlss came not only fps improved but also the looks looking crispy
@denisruskin3482 жыл бұрын
Same, RTX 3080 and I always turn it on, 4K TV or 1440p monitor. Those free frames on a monitor come handy for mouse precision and on TV you can use all ray tracing effects and still get 60fps AT ZERO quality loss. So good.
@SlyNine2 жыл бұрын
I want to love it. But now I see the motion artifacts it kinda ruins it for me.
@ChrisGreeceChris2 жыл бұрын
@@SlyNine you cannot see them
@chrisunfocused2 жыл бұрын
This really is a testament to how impressive DLSS is. The temporal stability and natural AA is usually preferable to native for me. If you had told me 5 years ago that I'd genuinely prefer an upscaled lower resolution image to a native resolution image, I'd have dismissed you completely. The fact that there's a performance benefit is honestly icing on the cake at this point. DLSS just looks great.
@renatoramos88342 жыл бұрын
It's not upscaled, it's reconstructed.
@OsaculnenolajO2 жыл бұрын
@@renatoramos8834 I think that's just semantics. It's using a lower resolution than the output so you could definitely say it's upscaling. It's just also doing way more than that.
@SirMo2 жыл бұрын
I'm more impressed by FSR to be honest. Requiring no additional hardware to support, the fact AMD was able to squeeze this into shaders which are also rendering the scene at the same time while getting this performance uplift is seriously impressive. FSR is achieving this for free, while DLSS needs additional hardware.
@ea-sk8er_7752 жыл бұрын
@@SirMo and making the additional hardware required for DLSS was a pain in the ass to make and took years of research and development. It didn't just drop on their lap, that's an impressive feat of engineering.
@brenohenrique97432 жыл бұрын
yes,and it's more pretty and still gives more perfomance!
@foxx95552 жыл бұрын
I've checked both DLSS 2.0 and FSR 2.0 on Deathloop. While FSR 2.0 is a significant improvement over FSR 1.0 DLSS still remains better, more mature technology and its especially obvious when playing in 1080p or 1440p monitor. Still FSR 2.0 is like a salvation for many older GPU's, gives them a new life so huuuge thank you and respect for AMD.
@ejkk95132 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, FSR will never catch up with DLSS. FSR isn't hardware accelerated like DLSS is and as such can never match or beat DLSS.
@johnny_rook2 жыл бұрын
@@ejkk9513 Absolutely. The only way AMD can compete with Nvidia's DLSS is by designing the necessary hardware into their chips. Intel did it...
@ejkk95132 жыл бұрын
@@johnny_rook That's good and bad. AMD has always been a supporter of open source technology and allowing everyone to use their tech. Nvidia has always been the exact opposite. Nvidia has been inspired by Apple to lockdown everything they have created. That allows for them to optimize their tech to the highest level possible for themselves, but it doesn't allow the industry to grow at the same time. HBM is an AMD technology... and yet Nvidia uses it more than AMD in their data centers because of the low power consumption and high bandwidth. If Nvidia designed HBM... they wouldn't let AMD get anywhere near it. Hell, they don't allow AMD to use GDDRX when it was Micron who designed it! They forced Micron to sign an exclusive deal with them even though it wasn't their technology to begin with. That's incredibly hypocritical when they use HBM! AMD spent over a billion on creating HBM to allow the industry to use their tech to advance the industry as Nvidia does everything in their power to do the opposite. This is an example of why it's good and bad. Nvidia has been pulling this crap since their inception because they hate having competitors.
@johnny_rook2 жыл бұрын
@@ejkk9513 ??? I agreed with you: DLSS is hardware based and the only way AMD could compete was to integrate dedicated hardware into their chips, very much as Intel is doing. But, then, you engaged in this... rant... about completely unreleated... stuff... like Apple and HBM and GDDRX that I couldn't verify anywhere remotely reliable as source. So, citation needed, please. Thx
@ejkk95132 жыл бұрын
@@johnny_rook Literally the "rant" is related to what I said. Look up gddr6x exclusivity for Nvidia or whatever. I've done the research and some of this information was on Gamers Nexus channel as well. AMD developed HBM. It's well known by this point. You have to be trying pretty hard to not find ANY information about what I said...
@jesseshaver22622 жыл бұрын
honestly im starting to wonder if 8k might actually be useful for an almost "reverse variable rate shading". Where they only render things like vegetation and things in the distance at that higher resolution. 4k still looks a little blurry when it comes to scenarios with very fine detail
@stevetriple82 жыл бұрын
That's just because every method used in the video has some sort of smoothing applied. TAA is well known for it's effective anti-aliasing but at the cost of smudging the image sometimes or just having a soft look. DLSS and FSR just use the same temporal elements that TAA uses and usually also encompasses some kind of smoothing since the upscaling usually makes the native image too sharp/aliased. To get a truly sharp image you'd have to disable AA completely or use a technique that multiplies frames instead like MSAA or SSAA. Additionally the new DLDSR is probably the best way to anti-alias an image and maintain that sharpness while maintaining playable performance.
@tengkurazin32892 жыл бұрын
Things in the distance looks blurry to save on performance. Games like RDR2 for example make use of it quite significantly.
@marcgtsr2 жыл бұрын
These could be as expensive as 8k though. So it is valid. But it should be used in a smart way. Eventually 8k will be the standard. That said it all depends on the distance and size of the TV... Or all this is somewhat irrelevant.
@devonmarr98722 жыл бұрын
4k games are super crisp if they do not use TAA as their base anti aliasing. MSAA at 4k is shocking with how good it looks.
@UltimateLF2 жыл бұрын
I tried 8k dlss performance in GOW amd rdr2. It looks phenomenal on my 27" 4k. I can see everything so clear. Kratos' beard and even vein on his forehead. And Arthur hair looks very good, also vegetation. Oh and Cyberpunk 2077 also looks outstanding 8k dlss performance. All three games averages at 40-50fps. I can't wait for the rtx 40** series
@picolete2 жыл бұрын
7:06 there is also a weird effect behind the enemy sword un DLSS but is different, it some kind of ghosting
@adamashworth62932 жыл бұрын
That disocclusion really messes up the image man, that's quite disappointing.
@albertt77842 жыл бұрын
Best comparison videos/articles between DLSS and FSR in the business. Makes most other reviewers look amateurish in comparison.
@ThunderingRoar2 жыл бұрын
Crazy how in few years we went from the CSI Miami enhance memes to now doing it in real time
@Dankuzmeemusmaximus2 жыл бұрын
Shit you're right
@H3LLGHA5T2 жыл бұрын
So FSR 2.0 is just not there yet. I wonder if AMD can close the gap enough to DLSS without AI upscaling methods or if they have to implement them in order to become competitive.
@brei26702 жыл бұрын
Oh it's fantastic as it is. Speaking as someone who's played Deathloop with FSR 2.0 on a 4k screen extensively. DLSS is slightly better overall, but it also isn't perfect and doesn't run on as many cards, which may lead to games rather supporting the universal tech, though I understand that implementing them is so similar, if you have one, you may as well add the other. What FSR needs to be competitive is way more games supporting it, not fixing tiny problems you really don't see unless you look for them with a magnifying glass. You will NOT notice these while playing. Not at all. But I wouldn't complain if they got fixed, either. Another thing, if you want to upscale to 1080p, you're trying to do nonsense to begin with. These techniques are made for upscaling to 4k, or higher, and they do that wonderfully. If you need to upscale to 1080p to gain performance, you need a hardware upgrade, not magical upscaling. Also no raytracing effects are worth doing that. EDIT: I just put in some hours on the new God of War patch and it just confirms what I've been saying. It looks absolutely great and you will not notice any issues while playing. At 4k at least. Again, DLSS is BETTER, but it's not really that much better to influence what card I buy. I got this Radeon at MSRP, while retail prices of all cards were insanely high, and that really was the only argument I needed at that point. And I sold my old GTX 1070 at 75% of the price of my new Radeon... That was a really cheap, and significant, upgrade.
@BAMozzy692 жыл бұрын
So FSR 2.0 is 'decent' and does provide a noticeable visual upgrade considering the internal resolution - even if its not quite as good as DLSS but can be used on a LOT more platforms...
@BadMenite2 жыл бұрын
It's nowhere close to DLSS, at least not yet. It's got a long way to go. It's only better than the game engines own TAAU upscaling as long as there isn't too much movement onscreen, which is pretty common in a 3rd-person action game.
@moosewayne84342 жыл бұрын
@@BadMenite no where close lol. Fanboy
@TheSometimeAfter2 жыл бұрын
@@BadMenite keep telling yourself that ;)
@BadMenite2 жыл бұрын
@@moosewayne8434 Yes, it still looks terrible in motion, anyone can see that. Alex and this entire channel know that. Alex actually called DLSS "demonstrably" better even. The fact you bring up "fanboyism" unprompted tells me a lot about you.
@moosewayne84342 жыл бұрын
@@BadMenite awe poor lil dork
@omgawesomeomg2 жыл бұрын
This is reassuring because it shows the Tensor cores have a right to exist. But at the same time it's good to have a solution that is almost as good and hardware agnostic.
@brenohenrique97432 жыл бұрын
that's true
@PrefoX2 жыл бұрын
almost as good? ALMOST? you must be a comedian xD
@Ayva_K2 жыл бұрын
almost as good lol
@FoxbatStargazer2 жыл бұрын
Tensor cores exist primarily to drive cars. For graphics uses they are more of a solution looking for a problem.
@EmblemParade2 жыл бұрын
You're assuming a lot here. We don't know why exactly DLSS is better. It may not be due to tensor cores. Everything tensor cores due, you can do with other cores. The difference would be performance, not quality of rendering. The only factual conclusion is that FSR simply has to improve in quality to match DLSS. I'm also not sure why would think this is "reassuring". :) It would be more reassuring to discover that we don't need special cores for quality upscaling.
@toomuchstarbucks67872 жыл бұрын
Think it's kind of embarrassing that a game from a Sony studio with an incredibly staggered PC release is able to get both of these near essential technologies into their games before PC exclusives and much larger/more relevant projects. Can't wait to watch this.
@ilias.chrysopoulos2 жыл бұрын
PlayStation Studios = Wordclass Quality
@nguxurr96672 жыл бұрын
God of War is a Ps4 game, go visit a doctor PC fanboy
@Tasso-d22 жыл бұрын
@@nguxurr9667 and miles morales is a ps5 game and pc is getting all the latest features plus super high quality Ray tracing not found on ps5. KEEP SEETHING
@nguxurr96672 жыл бұрын
@@Tasso-d2 Ps5 version runs Ray tracing at 60FPS You will only get better performance with a high end rig which the majority of PC gamers don't have 🤣🤣🤣 You are delusional my guy
@qualitygaming71692 жыл бұрын
@@Tasso-d2 Insomniac has said that they worked on implantering RT shadows in Miles. But PS5 was to weak. So we will probably see both RT reflections and RT shadows in the PC version.
@existential_2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for covering God of War once again. I was surprised by the developer's continued support by adding FSR 2.0 and your continued coverage!
@gavinderulo122 жыл бұрын
Don't be surprised. Sony Santa Monica is one of the best studios on the planet.
@Judie-Nator2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, these upscaling techniques are probably some of the best technologies to come in recent years. Even though there may be small artifacts, and an overall softer look, in motion, the average person wouldn't notice. As more demanding games come out, and technologies such as Raytracing become more widespread, these technologies will be key to gaining back preformance.
@photonboy9992 жыл бұрын
*GTX1080 performance...* With FSR2.0 Quality Mode I managed to maintain 60FPS (VSYNC) @2560x1440 with a combination of Medium(forget name)/High settings. I looked up a tweak guide for how to best optimize. Anyway, the game runs great and looks great. I finally bought GOW because FSR 2.0 came out and gave me the confidence I could maintain 60FPS (60Hz monitor). When actually playing the game I don't think I'd notice Ultra quality anyway. And the game still looks very good at the setting's I'm at.
@seizonsha2 жыл бұрын
I agree but if you zoom and use slow motion you would see the actual flaws and with the right mental illness may find the game unplayable. Fsr 2.0 is incredible.
@Loundsify2 жыл бұрын
the game looks great on the PS4 which is original settings.
@theoldpcgamer772 жыл бұрын
DLSS at lower resolutions is just superb. Don't know about in this game but the version in Metro Exodus enhanced has such good DLSS that at my native 1440p using performance mode so 720p internal it looks so sharp and clean free of artifacts. It makes RT work at triple digit fps.
@Kam90022 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the coverage Alex, it's always appreciated. I feel like FSR 2.0 isn't that bad all things considered. From what I've seen it has similar characteristics to DLSS 2.0. DLSS also had mad ghosting problems back then, including alpha effects smearing all over the place, although DLSS had no weird fizzle. Seeing how DLSS improved over time I expect FSR to mature the same (of course it doesn't have dedicated hardware so there is that). More competition means better software in games and better software benefits us all. Thanks for the hard work once again. Cheers.
@guspaz2 жыл бұрын
FSR feels sort of like it's half a generation behind DLSS right now, midway between TAAU and DLSS, but it also seems like some of the most serious issues with FSR, like the fizzle, can probably be improved upon without fundamental changes to the technology. Addressing fizzle (potentially at the cost of detail, but that would still be much less distracting) and some of the other similar issues that seem tweakable could bring it much closer to DLSS. I look forward to seeing where things go from here.
@EVPointMaster2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see more comparisons, especially at lower resolutions like 1080p (maybe on Steam Deck as well). I see a lot of people talking about running -next gen- current gen games on last gen hardware when FSR2.0 gets adopted, but I think that's a little too optimistic. So, how low can you go with upscaling techniques before they stop being useful/ producing acceptable results.
@219SilverChoc2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I would love to see the test at the end (TAAu at 75% compared to FSR Quality) done on older PCs that struggle with FSR. I bet TAAu at 85-80% would run and maybe even look a lot better than FSR quality on a GTX970 or R9390 tier card.
@brenohenrique97432 жыл бұрын
that's exactly what i say when people compare fsr 2.0 to dlss.
@omarcomming7222 жыл бұрын
Imo any reconstruction at 1080p already looks bad except for maybe DLSS quality at best, so everything below that is pointless but it's up to personal preference
@maxbeisch14932 жыл бұрын
Yeah it's pretty rough at 1080p using either lol. Ive used it a few times at 1440p and it's acceptable, but on my laptop at 1080p, just no. I would rather turn everything on low and just play native 1080p 45-60fps if I had to choose
@brenohenrique97432 жыл бұрын
@@maxbeisch1493 1440p at quality renders the game at lower resolutions than 1080p(while also bringing more perfomance and quality) so no reason to play in 1080p native
@SteamPunk962 жыл бұрын
The Issues of Fizzle and Fuzz sounds like a mid-00's Japanese experimental PSP puzzle platformer.
@JoshuaCBrown2 жыл бұрын
This is way better than the static image tests people have been doing for FSR vs DLSS. Thanks for the in-depth review!
@Brogboolius_Maximus2 жыл бұрын
Amazing comparison, Alex! This is very helpful. Am I out of my mind though, or is FSR washing out the colors in these images? In every comparison, it seems like the FSR color palette is less saturated, which could be an unfortunate problem in a game as vibrant as GoW can be.
@CaptainWheelies2 жыл бұрын
Playing it at 900p on my CRT. The native hyper DLSS offered by CRT does the job well.
@theamazingmikelee98572 жыл бұрын
Those artifacts are a dealbreaker. How is FSR 2.0 better than 1080p (without TAA) if the image is shimmering, ghosting and garbled?
@StreetPreacherr2 жыл бұрын
Nvidia DLSS definitely still seems to have a 'leg up' on the other solutions. I don't think I'd be able to notice the difference from 'native' playing on a 65" 4K panel from 8 feet away...
@Hybred2 жыл бұрын
Does FSR 2.0 have a game DLL like DLSS that can be replaced/manually updated when newer versions release?
@SianaGearz2 жыл бұрын
Presently, it does not; and if someone decides to do that, it's likely to end up not being standardised between games.
@kirkkork2 жыл бұрын
It would be nice to see if FSR 2.1 has fixed the ghosting issues.
@Demmrir2 жыл бұрын
If they can fix the ghosting, FSR would be a hands-down winner against TAU, which is the best you get in most games without an RTX. Until then, I find the ghosting incredibly distracting. It makes the framerate look unstable because key parts linger past when they should exist and it heavily blurs areas experiencing ghosting.
@PrefoX2 жыл бұрын
no the artifacts are even worse than the ghosting, in motion FSR is complete utter shit and worse than TAAU
@volatilelyle51702 жыл бұрын
Would've been interesting to see FSR 2.0 being used in combination DLDSR
@VariantAEC2 жыл бұрын
Seeing as how FSR 2.0 did a better job handling DoF, post-processing it would be interesting to see how it handled motion blur. Alex: 'Why would I look at FSR 2.0 with motion blur enabled?'
Seeing these upscaling Technologies makes me want to see digital Foundry show these off on Richards fw900. I want to see a video of the performance mode with 1080p internal resolution and how it looks on a CRT. It's really really impressive how good these upscaling Technologies are, and if we had had these in 2003 the transition to flat panel displays would have been much smoother in my opinion.
@sapphyrus2 жыл бұрын
Quite frankly the best comparison to date regarding these, bravo. I'll be looking out for future videos from you on this matter!
@Arpadiam2 жыл бұрын
BUT WHAT about the performance gain compared to FSR 1.0? is the most important aspect of the tool and wasnt covered in the video...............
@antonkirilenko31162 жыл бұрын
That's because it was covered in the initial testing in Deathloop and it hasn't changed since. FSR 1.0 is faster, but only because its algorithm is significantly simpler and image quality is worse.
@VariantAEC2 жыл бұрын
Alex: 'On Nvidia use DLSS' PC gamers with Pascal GPUs that do not support DLSS: 'We'll be using FSR thanks Alex.'
@cleo14882 жыл бұрын
FSR looks good to me. I can only tell the difference when you slow down the videos and zoom in
@Harb0eJac0b2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video. Thanks for your work. And it'll be interesting how much AMD can improve it in v3. DLSS 1 wasn't that great great in all games and really improved in v2. And keeps getting better. Uhh and excited to see what Intel will bring.
@219SilverChoc2 жыл бұрын
Kinda funny how DLSS 2 looks like the original DLSS on camera cuts or when there’s breakup.
@timmyp62972 жыл бұрын
DLSS1 was a scam. There is no way Nvidia didn't know that a generic model would be superior on release. No way they didn't test that. Nvidia wanted to keep the focus on RT hardware, which at the time AMD did not have.
@Sand_19952 жыл бұрын
So tell me again how FSR 2.0 was supposed to be a DLSS killer? Looks like checkerboard rendering does a better job without any of the annoying artifacts.
@Arcona2 жыл бұрын
Wasn't supposed to be better, but will no doubt become more popular. DLSS needs RTX2000+ FSR2.0 works on all those GTX 1060s and GTX 1080s people are still using. It's open for anyone to use, DLSS is stuck to specific NV cards. That's what will make FSR become more used over time, accessibility.
@StrengthScholar02 жыл бұрын
Tell me you have no idea how upscaling works without telling me you have no idea how upscaling works.
@PCGGC2 жыл бұрын
AMD really needs to get some AI cores in their next generation. A software algorithm that uses regular GPU processing cores will never be able to compete with dedicated AI hardware cores
@scarletspidernz2 жыл бұрын
AI I believes is coming to their CPU's since the CPU isn't really a bottle neck these days putting AI chips on the cpu to process data for not only gaming but also video in general as well as any other uses is a smart choice especially with cooling as well
@JimBob19372 жыл бұрын
@@scarletspidernz , it's worse actually. GPU compute is used for AI since GPUs are considerably more parallelized, and so AI acceleration makes far more sense on GPU. CPU would only make sense in applications where a dedicated GPU wasn't viable.
@scarletspidernz2 жыл бұрын
@@JimBob1937 they could do both probably, or maybe they're still looking at betters ways to use specific accelerator(s) on the gpu side rather than general purpose since they split CDNA and RDNA into two separate Branches. Use general purpose stuff seems a bit pointless.
@JimBob19372 жыл бұрын
@@scarletspidernz , AI acceleration are fixed silicon logic paths, giving a large speed up, but still requiring some GPU compute. Likewise, GPU compute is considerably faster than CPU for highly parallelizable tasks. Hence, AI is still likely to run on GPU if one is available. If they put AI acceleration on the CPU, I still say that is only for instances of no dedicated GPU. Data shuffling between GPU and CPU is not an insignificant penalty.
@rapzid35362 жыл бұрын
This really the reason for FSRs existence; DLSS was showing AMAZING promise but AMD was not going to be able to A.) Get custom tensor cores into their chips and B.) Create and train models on massive scale in timely enough fashion(let's not forget Nvidia is an absolute AI powerhouse). So, they needed some answer and this is the answer. It has room to improve for sure, and it's impressive at a low cost for sure, but its ceiling is fundamentally lower than AI techniques.
@sololoquy37832 жыл бұрын
That fizzling is very similar to the one that happened in Matrix Awakens TSR (especially apparent on XSS).. It's visibly distracting
@atthelord2 жыл бұрын
So what we’ve found is that if you’re gaming at 4K using either DLSS or FSR, using a quality setting, bob’s your uncle! Lower the resolution worse the image looks, with more flickering on FSR. Tbh, I’m happy they both exist. I’m sure both will get better and the small annoyances and niggles will be ironed out.
@bruceg220002 жыл бұрын
FSR still has a long way to go, but DLSS already looks virtually indistinguishable from native resolution.
@eddyhg80982 жыл бұрын
Coming back to this, the disocclusion problem on FSR is even more visible if you play in 1080p + FSR quality (so 720p internal res). Had to use the internal scaler, but not much performance is lost.
@Doug-mu2ev2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the detail as usual Alex! I came to learn and you did not disappoint! Disocclusion fizzle is my phase of the week :-)
@Pan_Z2 жыл бұрын
You guys consistently answer all my questions about new technologies in half-hour videos. Cheers
@Takami222 жыл бұрын
So basically DLSS 2.3.4 seems to be the better version whether quality or performance mode in most fields/comparisons I saw in the video
@2ndLastJedi2 жыл бұрын
5:25 the particles in the air seem to be much less visible with FSR, much like the water at 12:40.
@CharcharoExplorer2 жыл бұрын
I was hoping for Farm Simulator, but knowing that you are German Alex, the memes of working then going back home and continuing to work in-game as well :P would have been too good :D
@adriantrusca12452 жыл бұрын
Go away. You're annoying.
@kamikazilucas2 жыл бұрын
dlss is defo noticeably better, i really wish games like forspoken would get it
@madd52 жыл бұрын
that game is not out yet is it?
@ygny11162 жыл бұрын
not a fan of graininess look produced by Lanczos filter that FSR uses internally even with zero sharpening.
@JimboJimbolina2 жыл бұрын
DLSS comes off great here. Probably down to maturity. But one thing about it that isn’t discussed enough is how it smears texture detail, to a near FXAA level. But it’s far superior in motion and shimmering respects.
@qualitygaming71692 жыл бұрын
Yes. But how much can FSR improve? Its alogorithm is hand-coded by humans, while DLSS is trained by supercomputers. I actually think DLSS could be even better than FSR in the future. There are rumors that DLSS 3.0 will be alot better at reconstructing Raytracing (when denoycing filers are used). Iam no expert. I just say that we just cant assume that FSR some day will be as good as DLSS. Because it could in theory also be the oposite.
@BadMenite2 жыл бұрын
That's mostly because they have sharpening completely turned off. All upscalers, including FSR as well, need some post-process sharpening. You just need to be mindful to not overdo it and get artifacting.
@SianaGearz2 жыл бұрын
@@BadMenite I agree they need to be compared against same perceptual sharpness level, which would result in different settings which just need to be hand picked. I am however not convinced that FSR2 needs any post process sharpening in this title, and indeed it would emphasise its artefact heavy nature. I really think Jimbo is onto something and FSR2 may benefit from post process smoothing instead, and FXAA might just be the ticket. FXAA affects visually noisy areas heavier than areas with a typical or expected local contrast, so it can help make the image more cohesive; afterwards CAS may be applied to bring back perceptual clarity.
@DarkChazz2 жыл бұрын
Both TAA and FSR 2.0 have a sharpening pass applied (even when FSR sharpening slider is turned off, it just turns down the sharpening to the lowest level rather than completely off) DLSS on the other hand does not apply sharpening when its sharpening slider is turned all the way down.
@soulshot962 жыл бұрын
@@DarkChazz Which is a good thing, because current DLSS sharpening is absolutely shit tier. They've tried to implement a dynamic approach, and all it ended up doing was over brightening high contrast edges in motion, causing extremely distracting 'flicker'. You can see some examples of this in God of War and other games on my channel actually. Far better off injecting your own sharpening vs using DLSS sharpening.
@Neothemod2 жыл бұрын
Getting rid of that shimmering/ghosting when you move in FSR and then AMD we'll have a proper DLSS competitor. A lot of issues mentioned here I don't think many casual users will see but will different notice the shimmering on movement. Once that is fixed up, going AMD might actually be quite nice! Been NVIDIA for the longest time but I love how far FSR has come, looking forward to future versions.
@BurritoKingdom2 жыл бұрын
Yeah. The ghosting is noticable in motion. In still images the game looks similar but when Alex pulled up the animation of kratos attacking I immediately noticed the ghosting.
@blair54752 жыл бұрын
When is FSR coming to consoles?
@BurritoKingdom2 жыл бұрын
@@blair5475 it's depends on the game. There are some that probably uses it but doesn't advertise it. It think there is already a switch game that uses FSR 1.0 in dock mode, Nintendo Switch Sports. You also have to remember devs also have their own customized upscaling solutions. With Sony's, in particular, being the best on the PS5, with insomniac the best team with it. Games that use Unreal Engine also have an upscaler and it's better than FSR 1.0. Basically almost all upscalers are better than FSR 1.0
@blair54752 жыл бұрын
@@BurritoKingdom But the Switch is using Nvidia hardware
@Arcona2 жыл бұрын
@@blair5475 FSR works on Nvidia hardware.
@fxandrei2 жыл бұрын
Its really incredible to see the fact that DLSS LOOKS BETTTER THAN NATIVE in a lot of moments. It really seems like magic. If nvidia would of said that a couple of years ago the whole industry would of laughed their ass off. But behold .... magic.
@jc_dogen2 жыл бұрын
they were experimenting with temporal accumulation like this back around 2009/2010 in crysis 2 and the force unleashed 2.
@TotalGAMIX2 жыл бұрын
And it can still improve
@JerryFlowersIII2 жыл бұрын
On DF Direct you should have Alex deduce what reconstruction (and native) is being used on a given clip of footage. Hard mode, no zooming, no slow down.
@1chiTheKiller2 жыл бұрын
I absolutely love these tech focused videos. Great stuff. :)
@YuGo_Wolverino2 жыл бұрын
Jesus Christ... DLSS still blow my mind. It's really crazy dude Holy shit!
@PrefoX2 жыл бұрын
I agree except that jesus bullshit
@childofvenus37812 жыл бұрын
Yeah it seems like it's always one step ahead of what ever you throw at it.
@childofvenus37812 жыл бұрын
@@PrefoX Jesus Christ...
@charlyy13372 жыл бұрын
Jesus, it’s mindboggling how awful the water looks with fsr. Amd has a lot of catching up to do.
@porina_pew2 жыл бұрын
The look reminds me a lot of the photographic style of long exposure landscape with moving water to give a dreamy effect.
@TopHater299742 жыл бұрын
Look I'm no programmer but couldnt they run FSR before the particles and the water normals? if that is even possible, because that is hard to look at. DLSS does fantastic here.
@abeerfaisal19862 жыл бұрын
In my LG 48C1, the DLSS 2.4.3 makes the game looking surprisingly sharper at 4K ULTRA+ (100+ Fps) with extremely high quality textures far better than the Native 4K! The native resolution looks blurry & muddy, which is really strange! My Specs: i9-10900K ROG STRIX LC 3080 Ti OC 32 GB DDR4 etc...
@magnolia36122 жыл бұрын
Don't be expect FSR 2.0 could be improved much. Surely they can add some nice (and complex) algorithm to get better reconstruction quality but it will get slower and slower as it gets better quality. Keep in mind that FSR 2.0 is already slower than DLSS at current level.
@StrengthScholar02 жыл бұрын
It's amazing how you pulled that whole comment completely out of your ass. Amazing!
@devonmarr98722 жыл бұрын
I always wonder. What would the game look like if you ran it 8k but in Performance mode. What would the metrics look like and would it look better than native 4k while performing similar? Kind of like using these tools to super sample.
@DanKaschel2 жыл бұрын
It would be quite a bit more expensive (native render would be 1440p instead of 1080p) and upscaling would be somewhat more expensive as well. The Downsampling would probably help with much of the shimming. But I think it would approach the render difficulty of native 4K while still have all the issues with ghosting and such.
@xxnike0629xx2 жыл бұрын
You know, I'd be surprised if we don't get a native, PS5 release of God of War (2018) and also a collection on PS5 consisting of God of War, God of War 2, God of War 3, God of War Ascension, God of War Chains of Olympus, and God of War Ghost of Sparta.
@mrpopo50972 жыл бұрын
That collection ain’t ever happening considering the fact every god of war game before 2018 will be on the new ps plus
@krazyfrog2 жыл бұрын
Yeah that's not happening.
@oweno.2802 жыл бұрын
The fact DLSS 2.3.4 looks better than Native TAA speaks a lot about the technology. Hopefully more devs implement the tech as the generation moves on.
@digclo2 жыл бұрын
Without the context of audio, this looks like a Kratos workout fan service video.
@KillahMate2 жыл бұрын
Is it just me, or does the texture LOD bias for DLSS seem incorrectly set? The textures in Performance mode look like they're rendering out at 1080p instead of the higher res that Nvidia recommends to ensure that they render sharply when upscaled.
@Mo-eh1bq2 жыл бұрын
FSR 2.0 has a few drawbacks but its still really good considering it's hardware agnostic and can run on basically any modern GPU. And it'll get better over time too, in the same way DLSS is on v2.4 right now. I bet FSR will be just as good as DLSS is when it reaches v2.4 as well. Also I know Alex didn't include sharpening in this video but AMD CAS actually works really well even just on its own. For example in call of duty vanguard in 120hz mode on next gen consoles, if you enable CAS at ~0.8 strength it makes the image look crisp and detailed so you get really smooth performance with a crisp image. I'm glad AMD are investing in free open source technologies like these because everyone can benefit from these especially console players and budget/midrange PC gamers who want to get the best out of their hardware.
@SlyNine2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if we can compare dlss 2.0 (the first accumulation method) to this version of FSR 2
@ghost0852 жыл бұрын
Perhaps you could, but why?
@rx18342 жыл бұрын
Fantastic work. Doing the in-motion comparisons must be quite a bit more difficult, but it reveals the significant differences between the two technologies, and I think it better represents the actual gameplay experience.
@TheSlendermang2 жыл бұрын
Good choice of the Tiberian Sun OST for the background tracks : )
@IzziDoesIt2 жыл бұрын
Hope AMD fixes these shortcomings for FSR 3.0
@gaetanoisgro67102 жыл бұрын
The difference between DLSS and FSR2.0 is huge but hopefully we'll get there soon.
@TheT0nedude2 жыл бұрын
Get where soon? If you're expecting FSR to rival DLSS in the future without AI support and just procedural implementation, you'll be waiting a long time. I keep saying that RT is good and all but the big star on the RTX cards is DLSS.
@seyitceyran70452 жыл бұрын
I was wondering how these would compare against tv upscaler which have been around for years for example against the samasung uspcaling AI which turns my PS4 into literally a PS4 pro
@ssaxamaphone2 жыл бұрын
Really great and detailed breakdown of FSR 2. Heres to hoping that AMD watches this and improves upon the fizziness and ghosting for 2.1!
@rk1370662 жыл бұрын
turning off the motion blur helps with that fizzle problem.
@kelownatechkid2 жыл бұрын
alex this is really amazing work, thank you
@theburton87182 жыл бұрын
This was an amazing analysis you did there. Really helpful in order to get the grasp of what each mode brings to the table. Thank you!
@budthecyborg45752 жыл бұрын
The #1 takeaway here is there is still no substitute for native rendering. Thank goodness for PC.
@alexanderdiogenes80672 жыл бұрын
Interestingly, if you look closely, it just appears that the difference is just in how FSR and DLSS handle that disocclusion fizzle. It looks like they apply a gaussian blur to the fizzle. The outline width of the fizzle and "blur" around edges is almost the same between FSR and DLSS. I wonder if that means that the FSR algorithm could just be tweaked a bit more on the developer side or on the part of AMD. Edit: Then again, DLSS might just be able to make way more passes per set of frames, owing to having a ton of RT cores.
@antonkirilenko31162 жыл бұрын
DLSS isn't using RT cores. There's dedicated Tensor cores which are used for anything machine learning related, DLSS included
@wanshurst24162 жыл бұрын
do you recognice the fizzle without 400 % zoom and repeating the movement over and over again while playing?
@JimBob19372 жыл бұрын
Yes
@SalveMonesvol2 жыл бұрын
What about using FSR only for anti-aliasing? For example, running the game internally at 1080p, upsample with FSR to 1620p and downscale back to 1080p (native resolution of the monitor). That should help avoid some artifacts.
@enhder13 Жыл бұрын
this is why I watch DF. nice comparison Alex. Seems silly, but things like this is what captures your eye and once you see it, it becomes distracting. hopefully FSR 3.0 has fixed these bug. can't wait to see a coparison there.
@DanCollier12 жыл бұрын
Dlss is so bloody impressive. Glad i went with a 3080
@Nianfur2 жыл бұрын
That "Fizzle" looks to be more of an optimization issue. I would expect it to be mostly resolved in an update of GoW.
2 жыл бұрын
Can you also please test GoW FSR 2.0 on the Steam Deck? On my machine the "fizzle" effect around Kratos is absolutely terrible (independent of which level - quality / performace is selected). Especially when having camera movement. So far using the option makes the visual experience significantly worse without gaining any performance benefits. Perhaps I have just not found the right combination of settings.
@killermoon6352 жыл бұрын
Maybe because FSR2.0 does not work well on very low resolution. Try 4K or 1440p with FSR
@219SilverChoc2 жыл бұрын
@@killermoon635 that won’t work on a steam deck lol
@219SilverChoc2 жыл бұрын
I saw a video that showed an small peformance improvement running with FSR 2.0 Quality mode on Deck, with a bigger improvement at Peformance mode with significant quality loss. How does TAAu/Render Scale compare on Deck btw?
@XxViciousxX2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, DLSS and FSR don't play well with low Resolutions. Makes sense though as they are taking the game and running it at lower res and then blowing the picture back up in super loose terms. So Steam Desk is a less than 1080p screen I believe it's 1280x800 so that's a little too low FSR would have to run the game at like 540p or something then upscale it to the 1280x800 screen.
@arthurbonds72002 жыл бұрын
@@XxViciousxX I got DLSS 2.0 to upscale from 540p to 1080p (for Control), and it doesn't look too bad - impressive considering it's that low of a base resolution.
@densetsu42862 жыл бұрын
Question, is it possible to test a lower dlss version for god of War? I'm interested in seeing how fsr2.0 fairs against dlss2.0. The reason why I want to see something like that is to get an idea of where amd is at when nvidia was at that version. Is it above? Is it a behind? Is it about equal? If you are going to compare tech I think it's always a bit unfair to be showing vastly different versions of each other. 2.3.6 and 2.4 are much higher and thus have had more refinement compared to dlss 2.0. I get you want to show what the real world is and what players are going to want to use realistically but I have never seen fsr2.0 vs dlss2.0. This to me would be more telling of the tech. Personally fsr2.0 is holding up quite a bit. Dlss has had a longer dev time and thus gained significant ground but fsr2.0 had much less dev time and yet is within the same ballpark. It's quality is very comparable and only slightly worse, it's frame rates are only 3-6fps behind dlss 2.3.6. While for now nvidia's tech is the correct solution you should choose if you have a nvidia rtx gpu but that recommendation might not last long. Amd is making significant strides. Nvidia has a lot of work to do to not but them in a bad place. Cause remember they are forcing you on proprietary hardware while amd is not. Nvidia needs to sell you on the reason for that and currently they're argument is losing viability. Amd is showing you that you don't need tensor cores to get similar results. Nvidia need to do better here in this regard.
@damara22682 жыл бұрын
AMD technology should be targetting current state of dlss, not the state it was in year or two ago.
@isanvicente19742 жыл бұрын
As electronic engineer that i am there is something that must be taken into account, DLSS being better right now is normal, FSR 2.0 is still a young technology, i think alex your analisis is pure technical , some time you shoul notice and enphasize that we are comparing a mature technology with a recent one,.. i re,member DLSS 1.0 and it was far worse than FSR 2.0 now... and also, as an engineer i hate propietary solutions, we need open source SW... is better for HW prices... i think we technology people we sholud press manufacturers to standarize and make open source solutions... is better for consumers , and i must add not all nvidia users can use DLSS... just look into steam and most of the people own non nvidia RTX card....
@volatilelyle51702 жыл бұрын
Can we please get a video comparing FSR 2.0 vs checkerboard rendering in God of War.
@GonzaloUSA12 жыл бұрын
4K TVs killed videos game graphics momentum. You need 4 times the processing power than 1080p and the gains in sharpness are minimal since most games are always moving. What could they have done with all that power?
@vncube12 жыл бұрын
Any word on DLAA or AMD's upcoming FSR 2.0 based AA? Devs are seriously sleeping on those features!