The Gold Plates: Is Joseph Smith's Story Possible? (w/ Bill McKeever)

Bill McKeever of Mormonism Research Ministry (MRM.org) talks about the problem with the story of Joseph Smith and the Gold Plates that contained the Book of Mormon. In many ways, the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of the LDS Church. Joseph Smith began the Restoration with the Book of Mormon, and Moroni's entrusting Joseph with the Gold Plates sparked the Latter-day Saint movement. But is the story of the Gold Plates even plausible?
The problem of the Gold Plates is not just a problem of misunderstanding Joseph Smith's history. If the story is false, there are two possibilities: (1) Joseph Smith made up the story, and that's why he had the plates covered in front of other people, or (2) Joseph Smith exaggerated the details to make the story seem more dramatic. Both of these are significant issues! If Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, the Prophet of the Restoration of Christ's Church, then even having him blur some of the details would be a significant issue! Yet, the story (as it currently stands) seems impossible to be true.
As Christians, we don't need to wonder if our prophet makes mistakes. Our living prophet is Jesus, the Lord and Savior of all those who believe. Joseph Smith (and the other LDS Prophets) are far more problematic. They disagree, change their minds, and teach conflicting doctrines. The story of the Gold Plates is just one additional proof-Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Jesus warned about such people. Reject Joseph Smith, and turn in faith to Jesus-the true "living prophet."
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’ As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’” (Hebrews 3:7-11)
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Special Thanks to Bill McKeever and Mormonism Research Ministry. Be sure to check out their site at MRM.org
For more content, visit GodLovesMormons.com
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#JosephSmith #MRM #GodLovesMormons #Christianity #LDSChurch #Apologetics #GoldPlates #Moroni #TheRestoration

[@marleymae6746]

It was reading the New Testament that got me out of Mormonism, and into my personal relationship with Jesus.

[@jakeseward9035]

Same here! I'm so grateful for the grace of God that lead me to the true Jesus and out of this false religion.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

Praise God. Thank you, Jesus. We can’t go wrong with the Bible. It exposing false doctrines so easily.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

@@prayerwarrior7778 Me too!! And the fact they used evil Freemasonry symbols and rituals in their temples.

[@gustavmahler1466]

@@prayerwarrior7778 too many interpretations of the Bible too many translations

[@mattearl8213]

@@gustavmahler1466 go learn hebrew and greek then.

[@philipplank507]

I pray the Mormons that see this come to know the True Savior Jesus Christ!

[@fuzbeatboxern5714]

You need to point this to them.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

Amen.

[@MJ-td3ij]

I’m mormon and trying. Pray for me and my family. Jesus has started reaching out to me because I have been experimenting on his word. It’s not easy and it’s dividing my family

[@gustavmahler1466]

@@MJ-td3ij the Book of Mormon does not conflict with the Protestants interpretation of the Bible

[@kevinsills9235]

How did the Bible come to be? What historical journey, translations, formats, shifts, and organizations did it find itself a part of over the course of history?........ because thats the only Jesus you know........ I mean, playing the game telephone always works out 100% in the end right?.......... Ever witness a car wreck before? Imagine if someone on the other side of the street saw the same wreck, but from a different angle. Maybe y'all were looking at your phones at different times of the accident. If a police officer took only your statement of events as fact, and disregarded the other witness completely, how would you asses the officers performance? Would the insurance company receive the correct information, or maybe just part of it?.......... just some thoughts about how we come to KNOW a true anything.

[@1689-Cigars]

As a "buff farm boy" I can confirm that Joseph's story is not feasible even if the plates are 80lbs.

[@Cowboybrian01]

Same! I’ve worked farms and ranches!

[@nute742]

They would have probably been about 40 pounds (gold alloy) Similar to other ancient plates found from the middle east.

[@johnjones_1501]

A fun question I often raise with Mormons, Joseph Smith got out of militia service to go fight in one of the Indian Wars, because he was crippled. He had a leg that was injured as a child from a surgery to remove a growth of some kind, and he walked with a painful limp. So either he is lying about his running and dodging through the woods, or he lied to get out of military service during war and was essentially a draft dodger. So the question is, which one was he lying about, and now that we established he was a liar, what else did he lie about?

[@mrsjonse]

Or we have no clue what happened... being 200 years removed. Or miracles are in play. "Lord... help thou my unbelief."

[@bhendy1974]

That should be a contest on the World's Strongest Man. Take a 200-pound weight and run 3 miles. Call it the Joseph Smith run.

[@1646kilojules]

this is hilarious i agree

[@zacke.1286]

I think during the 90's/ early 2000's New York did exactly that. Got a bunch of body builders together, sectioned off a long stretch of road and gave the strong men a led replica of the plates. The body builders were told to carry them under one arm and run the course. The body builders didn't make it 10 feet is what I hear.

[@markdewald5323]

I'm a police officer, part of any SWAT tryout usually consists of dragging a 200 lb dummy about 25 yards. This is exhausting even for the very fit officers who are well prepared.

[@richardholmes5676]

200 lb? The plates were 45 to 60 lbs.

[@ulisscarple]

Bill Speaks so clearly that this video is readily watchable / listenable at 150 % play back speed. Good work !!!

[@johnjones_1501]

I am an ex-Mormon. I did my missionary stuff (I don't like to use the word serve anymore, because no one really benefited from any of that nonsense) in San Diego, California. Bill McKeever's house was in one of my areas, and it was the first time I ever heard of him. I used to have nightmares, while I was a missionary, about meeting Bill McKeever, because I had heard all of these horror stories about him. Funny thing is, every missionary I knew who had ran into him admitted he was a really nice guy, but they all talked about how sick they felt after talking to him, because they had their whole world challenged, and were being forced to think about their faith for the first time, and I was convinced that if I ever met Bill McKeever, that the devil would lose his demons after me afterwards, to try to tear me away from the faith. It is all so silly now thinking back about it, but I was so scared of Bill McKeever. The irony is, for a while, the missionaries used to live in my sister's house, and I heard I had a reputation as the guy who scared them, even though I was always nice and kind. I know Bill is a religious guy, and I don't agree with him on the whole god thing, but I do respect many of the scholarly research he has done into Mormonism.

[@ginamiller6754]

You stated you are ex Mormon. Have you not come to the saving grace of Jesus Christ?

[@TestifyApologetics]

Now this is the kind of evidential thinking that people should be doing when witnessing to Mormons! Excellent.

[@brannonburton5494]

That’s a new one. Joseph has a limp and therefore couldn’t run. This ignores the extensive history about Joseph’s physical prowess. He was known to be unbelievably strong as he wrestled and and played games with people. This is well documented.

[@W.A.J.J.]

But how can you believe in walking on water, water to wine, parting the Red Sea, Samson, and everything else that goes along with the Bible? What fantasy’s do you decide to believe are true?

[@JaimeGarcia-pe7bj]

What did Mr. Smith do with the plates that he translated?

[@kimvisser144]

I've had mormons tell me that God gave Joseph Smith divine strength to carry the heavy gold plates.

[@krissander1]

Strange his wife didn't mention that she got super strong just moving the plates around under a cloth.

[@jimsmith163]

Sure he did. Told him not to cut his hair as well

[@jonathannerz1696]

Where can we find the full clips of the replica plates shown in this video?

[@jonathanbaca1500]

I love this man, he knows what he's talking about.

[@davekaiser4726]

can you put the whole book of Mormon on these plates, especially being in "reformed Egyptian"

[@todd3502]

Its okay for Moses to talk to God and carry the commandments down the mountain made out of stone...

[@BNichols021]

Thin slabs of stone don't weigh 200lbs

[@ChicHulaGirl86]

@@BNichols021 The fact that people have to debate about whether or not the weight of the plates were ACTUALLY the plates, is ridiculous. If only there were witnesses 🤦🏽‍♀️

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

Any gold alloy is still "gold". While pure gold is 24 karat, 10 karat is still considered "gold" and 9 karat in most countries. Pure gold is way too soft for anything, while 14 karat is typical jewelry, watches etc. Tumbaga is a copper/gold alloy and common in pre-Columbian America. The gold plates of Joseph Smith, were handmade and certainly not perfectly flat , factory sheets. Joseph's little sister moved them once from one table to the next. She said they were heavy. Not all of the records were written on gold. Some of the plates were brass. There were eleven official witnesses of the gold plates, but about twenty accounts of record. It wasn't just Joseph Smith.

[@johnroberts6695]

As a believing Latter-day Saint, I have no problem with the descriptions of the plates that Joseph Smith, family members and associates gave. The Darius gold plates, by contrast, are square, measuring 13 x 13 inches (33 x 33 cm) and .63 inches (1.6 cm) thick. The plates of the Book of Mormon, as reported by witnesses who saw, felt, hefted and handled them, describe them as weighing 60-65 pounds, having the appearance of gold and being rectangular, about 6 x 8 inches in size. We also don’t know how small the characters were on the plates. They may have been quite small for all we know. By placing a straight-edge (ruler) on the plate and using it to etch the characters in a neat line, the smaller the character, the more could be fit per line, per page, front and back. The real miracle is the Book of Mormon itself. If Joseph Smith made the whole thing up, why gold plates? No engravings on gold plates had ever been found, and when the Darius plates were subsequently discovered, they were in a stone or cement box and covered with a stone, rounded on top, very similar to Smith’s account. Coincidence? How did Smith concoct the gold plates idea? And how did he know the tiniest details of the Arabian Peninsula? How did he know about the valley with a “river of water” running through it, and emptying into the Red Sea? How did he know about NHM (“Nahom”)? And that it was a burial site? How did he know about that tropical area on the east coast that describes Bountiful? How did he know it had trees for shipbuilding, ore for making tools, dramatic cliffs, bees and honey, various types of grain, a mountain Nephi could ascend for communing with the Lord, and inland harbor areas he could use for constructing a ship? How did he know to write complex chiasms and other obscure Hebraisms, and how did he dictate the book for hours on end, looking into a hat and never having any of the manuscript read back to him? And bottom line, if he were a fraud, why did he even _need_ a Book of Mormon? If you take the entire “Restoration” construct and remove the Book of Mormon from the equation, you still have a credible foundation story. Why even bother writing something you might be caught concocting? After all, Smith was writing a story so completely different in time, place and culture. Why risk it all by writing a whole new book of scripture? And if it is a concoction, why hasn’t he been caught? The plates may have been only _partially_ gold, and the composition of the pages may be different through the years. Many anti-Mormon publications questioned the concept of writing on metal. One recent discovery of the Maya hierglyphics reveals a single character, the translation of which is, “And it came to pass.” With no knowledge of the language or the construction of the sentences, to attack the plates themselves is futile. You really need to tell us where the Book of Mormon came from and who wrote it. And good luck with that!

[@MeToo-py1tq]

How did Emma Smith move the plates around while she performed her daily chores? Wouldn't this mean that they were light in weight?

[@DS-si9hg]

Buff farm girl

[@gilbertmiraflor3591]

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to naught: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

[@michaeldale1150]

I have been saying this for a while, having knowledge about gold. God said my people perish from a lack of knowledge

[@devinbarnes]

The plates were not pure gold. If you look at the description of those who saw the plates describe them as an ore with multiple precious metals and had the “appearance” of gold.

[@Jake7x1]

has answered my prayer that its true and the Lord will do this for all if one is sincere in knowing.

[@johns1834]

The Book of Mormon initially seems logical and sounds like ‘Another Testimony of Jesus Christ’. Joseph Smith would later describe a Jesus radically different from the Bible Jesus which seems more like a testimony of 'another' Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul warns of teaching another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

[@joe-mama6451]

The story of Joseph carting the plates home and being accosted thrice sounds representative of the three ruffians who assault Hiram abiff in free masonry. The three ruffians in allegory are ignorance apathy and laziness. So the story seems to be allegorically representing that he has “developed his care” and overcome the three traits

[@stevenhenderson9005]

Can you show evidence that the Jesus described in the New Testament is a different Jesus described in the Book of Mormon?

[@DownAroundSanAntonio-ik4ek]

As an ex-Mormon I would return to the church if anyone found anything else written in reformed Egyptian or someone could show me that indeed such a language really existed. Could it be that all the experts are wrong and there really was/is such a language? But you don't have to prove that the BOM is false, just have to show that its teachings are false. JS could've fabricated physical plates. And why was it important to keep the plates a secret? Most of what the plates supposedly contained has already been revealed. Just pick up any copy of the BOM and you can see for yourself.

[@kenwick7921]

A crucial fact for this video is the weight of the plates. Yes, a solid block of gold for the dimension of the plates (Smith Jr in 1842: 8"x6"x6") would be about 200 pounds or maybe about 100 pounds assuming uneven gold plates. Those who handled the plates gave a weight between 30 and 60 pounds. This means the plates were NOT made of gold and were most likely made of copper or tin. I suggest that Mr. McKeever make a replica weighing 60 pounds maximum. The witnesses: 30 lbs (New York Telescope [Smith Jr & Harris], 1830); "sixty pounds, and was sure it weigh forty." (Willard Chase citing Smith Jr, 1834); 40 or 50 lbs (Harris, 1859); 30 lbs (Fayette Lapham citing Smith Sr, 1870); 40 to 60 lbs (Harris, 1870); and 60 lbs (William Smith 1883 & 1884).

[@jjwinn2495]

That's fine, so the original story is a lie, because JS or the angel said they were GOLD. If you want to call the BOM the Word of God, it has to be that way. Also, all your references are just mormons trying to back peddle when confronted with inconsistencies. They have been doing this since the beginning. Check out the differences in the first BOM with later editions. They have completely changed things so as to cover lies.

[@barrysrandomness]

This is all assuming the plates were pure gold, which is likely not true. Solid gold would have no ability to hold engravings for hundreds of years. It was likely an alloy of gold, silver and copper and plates of such an alloy would weight between 50 and 70 pounds.

[@ts-900]

I could have done it. Probably not now that I'm old, but certainly at 22. I used to take 3 stacks of roof shingles, 80 lbs each, put them over my shoulder, and take them up to the roof. When I was younger, we had these 120 lb soda cylinders, and I would move them four at a time. If you saw me now or then, I did not appear muscular, and never worked out. Later I found out that I'm probably in the tribe of Dan. Nowadays, I'm lucky to lift my cat, but that's more of a teeth and claws thing.

[@jeffs4483]

They will just say God gave him super powers.

[@nute742]

Like Samson?

[@carmvideos]

How am I just now seeing this? This is great! Brings me back to Manti.

[@Golf2foto]

Were they gold plates or brass plates?

[@tikotiko5328]

There is no way you would’ve had the faith to follow Moses.

[@priscillaxdestiny]

Maybe DON'T go running down the aisle with a car battery. They might think you're stealing it 😹

[@brannonburton5494]

Both David Whitmer and Martin Harris went out of their way to bury the notion that they hadn’t physically handled the plates. You’d have to ignore the vast majority of their statements to come to the “vision” argument. I hope the man on the video is just ignorant instead of deceptive.

[@julesverne2509]

Gold has a funny sound unlike other metal. It sounds more like stone than it does metal.

[@ulisscarple]

Thank you, Bill !!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[@bryang9601]

April 2024-this didn’t age well…golden and lead plates dating 2000 years old found in Saudi Arabia with ancient Hebrew writings, similar to the tree of life in the Book of Mormon. ❤🎉😊

[@Supremewaterfallz]

Joseph must off been high as hell on LSD to run that fast and get away 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Rjs81187]

I'm not religious landed here on accident but what if the plates weren't gold as in metal but color

[@joblack420]

That is not the golden book And this story has changed As a young kid going to the church and seeing the golden book And it's not the same Who changed all this ??

[@huffdaddy3845]

Why all this concern over the gold plates? The church has admitted that they weren't even used in the BOM translation in the Gospel Topic Essays, which can be found if you hunt around on the church's official website. So the testimony of the three and eight witnesses are irrelevant.

[@BNichols021]

Because if Joseph was lying from the beginning, then the very foundation of the LDS church is based on a lie and the claims of the church lose all credibility.

[@longnamenocansayy]

i say the same thing. they all (mormons) speak out of both sides of their mouth. they say they really really really believe in the book of mormon, and then 2 seconds later they deny anything the b/m says, and claim baptism for the dead, plurality of gods, believe they can become a god too, believe godhood comes from having more than one wife (section 132) and on and on and on.

[@Cowboybrian01]

Because if Joseph lied once then your entire cult is based on a lie and if he lied about that what else did he lie about??

[@erickestrada9454]

And he married underage girls when he was practicing polygamy behind hes wifes back...which is something you will never never hear in the church. Left the church in in 09, best decision ever made no lie.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

@@BNichols021 exactly. And who is the Father or lies? And what did Jesus call the Pharisees?

[@Reminisciences]

The three men he was accosted by, is another Masonic borrow from Smith. The architect of Solomon's Temple, Hiram Abiff, is accosted by three ruffians as he refuses to divulge his knowledge as a master mason, and metallurgist. The more you look into the vows of the LDS and Joseph Smith's life, the more Freemasonic symbolism you'll find.

[@kevinsills9235]

and freemasonic symbolism comes from ...... where, when?

[@grumpysgarage7276]

@@kevinsills9235 Joseph Smith and Bringham Young were Masonic members, henceforth why there are Masonic features and characters in the temple ceremony and Masonic symbols on the holy undergarments

[@Peter-wg2nz]

For reference, a sack of cement mortor mix is 80 lbs.

[@brannonburton5494]

Joseph Smith “These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters, and bound together in a volume as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole.” It’s quite possible that the plates were a gold alloy. I bought my wife a gold wedding ring, but it’s clearly not pure gold. The plates shown in this video were machine rolled and cut to fit perfectly on top of one another. Not hand pounded and engraved upon. This is straining at a gnat when the mere existence of the Book of Mormon is a miracle that testifies of Christ.

[@dante04srt]

Bill is the man. Always like watching his talks.

[@mrsjonse]

Why is logic the thing that matters here? Isaiah 55: 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[@paulsimmons9512]

Joseph Smith may have been describing to his mother the 6X8X6 plates that were in the stone box. The majority of the plates were then sealed and would not be unsealed for a very long time after Joseph was murdered. Why would the sealed plates be carried home by Joseph if they were not to be translated in the 1800's? The plates to be translated must have been made so as to be seperated from the plates not then to be read. Moroni knew Joseph had to carry the plates home and would have sent with Joseph only that which was needed. Were all the plates to be translated by Joseph carried on just one trip? A second trip that entailed Joseph picking up what was left without any incident or words of Moroni to convey to us, may have been seen as not significant enough history to mention in writing. As we can see that 6X8X6 gold plates were too heavy to carry, those of Joseph's day, who were more familiar with the weight of gold since gold circulated among them as in hand money, described the plates as ,movable so as to be hefted and another time carried in a way so as to hand them through a window. 200 lbs plates would be barely moveable by most people then and now. So, we simply are missing information as to how much gold Joseph was given to take home and perhaps just when he took all that was needed.

[@billyates3226]

The entire set of English alphanumeric characters, A-Z and 0-9, are contained in the Anton transcript. Not exactly Reformed Egyptian. The conclusion seems obvious.

[@Tik.i]

So are we saying that the Mom was lying as well? Why

[@ARAZTXTN]

Witnesses of the plates, Martin Harris and William Smith, said they weighed 40 to 60 lbs, so even if Joseph made up fake plates the basis of this whole video is wrong... Pre Columbian Maya did have a gold copper alloy called Tumbaga, (btw they have even found Tumbaga plates in stone boxes)... but Tumbaga plates of Josephs description would have weighed around 58 lbs. Perfectly within the description of the witnesses. BTW Joseph was known to use anything he could to prove the authenticity of the BOM but never mentioned Tumbaga and it's weight, as if he didn't know about it. Not proof but kinda cool. The angel did say they were gold, so he either meant gold the color or gold the metal, we can't just pick the one that we want we have to look at the whole story, based on the witnesses perhaps the angel meant color or perhaps he didn't care to describe Tumbaga to Joseph Smith bc it really didn't matter. Anyway your fake plate thing is wrong. Also, you said the witnesses saw the plates spiritually somehow, that's very clearly not true, the witnesses did say in the beginning of the BoM they physically held the plates "and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands" Based on this video I think your being the deceptive one telling everyone the plates weighed 200 lbs.

[@bobhulbert4015]

Bill didn't say the plates weight 200 lbs. He said if they were gold as Joseph Smith claimed the would weight 200 lbs. Bill also discusses in great detail the problems if the plates were made of tumbaga.

[@jjwinn2495]

LOL Tumbaga was never used to make plates to write upon, it was used for religious jewelry articles. NO such gold plates have EVER been found. The Myans wrote glyphs on ceramic, bark-paper or stone. You are using typical mormon deception.

[@briandavis6898]

It is interesting that you accept that Joseph Smith said the angel said gold plated but not that he and other eye witnesses said they weighed about 50 pounds.

[@sunchief1]

I thought it was golden brass plates, what I had read. Do brass plates solve the problems?

[@jimsmith163]

Compare he Book of Mormon with the Bible. It doesn't line up. How many times has the Book of Mormon been edited and/or rewritten?? The bible is the work of God inspired by God. The Book of Mormon is a creation inspired by Joseph Smith.

[@Maegor_BrightFlame]

I don’t think you have done much research about how many versions of the Bible there are and how many times things have changed do to translation. The Bible has been changed a lot in the 2,000 odd years.

[@rbwinn3]

What McKeever fails to mention is that gold is the only element that can be pressed into sheets one molecule thick . One ounce of gold can be pressed into a sheet that can cover a football field.

[@Rjs81187]

No one ounce could be flattened to cover 9 square meters a football feild is over 5000 square meters -Gold is malleable, so it can be flattened into extremely thin sheets. [...] Gold leafing-also known as gilding-is an ancient technique. Traditional artisans beat raw gold between pieces of leather until it was almost too thin to be seen. One ounce of gold may be hammered thin enough to cover more than 9 square meters (96.9 square feet) of a surface. The gold leaf may be only 0.18 microns (seven millionths of an inch) thick; a stack of 7,055 sheets would be no thicker than a dime.

[@jjwinn2495]

DOES NOT MATTER because NO other such tablets or writings by indigenous people have ever been found in North or South America. IF the Lamenites (or mayans / indians, whoever) wrote this way, then why were there never any such things found by archeologists? BTW there was no gigantic battle on the hill of Cumorah; if there were there would be archeological evidence. If such a massive battle was fought there, why are there no artifacts? It would be easy to find them if only the mormons would dig there - they won't because they know there is nothing there. Its a fake.

[@ericr3878]

What you completely ignore is that the dimensions were given by JS. We know what a volume of 6" x 8" x 6" of gold weighs. Whether it has 100 pages or 100,000, the density doesn't change.

[@mayanlogos92]

11:57 - mb by saying Gold he meant sth else?

[@helorumtheknightsofmambrin2155]

Wow, I can, with my natural eyes, and not the eye of faith, actually see your plates.

[@jeraldramos3014]

The problem with experiment those people particiapated is not the same as the arm strenght of joseph smith 2 the element of the metal had used in the experiement..

[@brannonburton5494]

Vision? 8 witnesses “That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken.”

[@pp2011100]

Bring further the question of a non-existent language!

[@ajgibson1307]

God bless and Amen

[@garys.2291]

I like how their excuses are 1)God helped him carry them, or 2)It wasn't Gold, but gold alloy, so of course he could do it. Either way, they have an excuse for everything.

[@jacobsamuelson3181]

Yes it is possible. Only to Christians who believe anything is possible with God. Matthew 19:26. I have heard accounts of women lifting up a car to save their child. People surviving freezing cold temperatures to rescue their loved one from drowning. I have read people do miraculous things in the Bible. Why doubt? How can you believe the words of the Bible but when miracles happen today you cast it off as lies. O ye hypocrites of the Word. Ye seekers of a sign. Even if it was a 1000 lbs I would still believe God could do it through Joseph. Joseph was a Man of God and he was also a man pumped up with adrenaline protecting the one thing that God told him to protect. You would only be able to do it if you were protecting something as precious to you.

[@mtdouthit1291]

So he’s a Mormon that doesn’t believe in the Mormon story? I’m confused.

[@GLM]

Not a Mormon! We're evangelical Christians.

[@JarrettHansen]

A very good, but not an air tight argument. What about how wrinkled each page is? If the pages are wrinkled, then there is more space in between each individual sheet. What would the weight be then?

[@ItsSnagret]

Ya'll believe God parted the Red Sea and that the Son of God came back to life but you don't believe God could help Joseph carry heavy plates....

[@bmo5082]

Exactly. The arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy this man exhibits is astounding. Personally I do wonder if JS made all of this up, so I don’t really have a dog in the fight.

[@jeraldramos3014]

It reminds me of Moses, when he went down on the mountain he is old and how could he throw to a golden bull.

[@timwrightfamily740]

We now know that anciently religious documents and important information was stored on gold colored plates. They used a copper and gold alloy. It was lighter than gold and soft enough to etch. Joseph Smiths Golden plates would’ve been about 60 pounds not 200 pounds.

[@joeparx]

And yet there it is. 200 years old and continues to confound learned men such as yourself. Read it. The archeological evidence continues to pour in.

[@richarner3856]

The archeological evidence pours in that contradicts the Book of Mormon from LDS archeologists themselves

[@0to100_RealQuick]

Joesph Smith wasnt able? but Samson pulled down a temple by 2 pillars?... Moses parted the seas with a staff?... but someone carrying 80lbs for God is absolutely unable... LOL

[@sarag1158]

Facinating

[@brannonburton5494]

The display of golden plates is metal. I just lifted it one month ago. Our teenagers all lifted it. Straining at gnats.

[@darrinhawkins8087]

So have you read and studied the Book of Mormon? If it was not written inspiration it would be good if you could explain exactly how it was written.

[@rev.stephena.cakouros948]

Mormonism is credulity on steroids.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

God Bless you Bill McKeever, for speaking the truth!!

[@archangel_one]

Hmm, I would have been able to lift them, carry them around, run with them for that distance. However, jump over a log? No! Take on 3 attackers? Well, yeah, maybe, if I used the plates as a battering ram? But then again, I was no fighter. I remember lifting a VW 1968? engine out of the car without difficulty. That's like 230lbs? I don't know. When they say "gold" plates, I'd be willing to believe that they might have just looked like pure gold, that they were an alloy. But 117lbs? I used to move around 120lb tanks all the time, sometimes 4 at a time. But there is NO jumping over logs with that kind of weight! Could I do that now? Doubt it! Hefting my 12lb cat out of the room is a strain. But then again, I'm in the tribe of Dan. Maybe if I let my hair grow out and stay away from Delilahs? If you doubt Joseph Smith, go to the source. Go to the LDS Temple in -Zion- Independence, Missouri and read the Gold Plates for yourself. I'd like to suggest you use the Book of Joseph for reference.

[@leocrawf]

The plates were of the appearance of Gold, but they were not of pure gold. It was a mixture of Gold, silver and copper. 1 nephi 18: 25, & 1 nephi 19:1. Other witnesses said they saw the plates with a greenish tone suggesting the presents of copper. Therefore, it would not have had the weight of pure gold. Do little more research on the subject. Do some research on Tumbaga.

[@michaeldale1150]

They found him with a seer stone and a hat

[@ancientruth5298]

If he was a real prophet then he can carry anything for angels where there for him

[@vardenh]

The original plates were hammered flat by hand with a hand made hammer. Have you ever tried that to see how flat you can get it? I have, and it’s pretty darn crinkled with plenty of space between the pages. Why are you comparing that to a perfectly clean cut machine made alloy? Also, weren’t many people in addition to the 11 witnesses able to lift the plates and give estimates of their weight? Why don’t you mention anything about their estimates of the weight?

[@longnamenocansayy]

how good is their witness? most all of them came out of the same magic, seer stone, water witching, treasure seeking enviornment that joseph smith did. the three witnesses saw the plates with the eye of faith, "And after that you have obtained faith, and have seen them with your eyes," see times and seasons 1 September 1842. also if you read the last sentence of the 3 witness you will see they testify of one god not 3 gods. so if you believe their testimony you have to reject plurality of gods in favor of monotheism. "And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. " top of the mark oliver cowdrey wrote the witness page. they did not individually pen their own knames. the 8 witnesses said the plates had the appearance of gold. no assay was taken. they also said that joseph smith is the author of the book, (original witness says:) " that Joseph Smith, Jr., the Author and Proprietor". so we know their witness has been tampered with by the mormon church, and not a hint from the mormon church as to how it's been changed from the original. how valuable is their witness? if you want to believe them, you also have to accept their testimony of strangism. , we find every living Book of Mormon witnesses, except Oliver Cowdery, accepting Strang as their prophet, at least for a time"

[@lazers28]

That only weakens the idea that the entire BOM could be found on characters contained on 2 inches of plates, since by adding more air (lowering the weight) you are lowering the amount of information potentially found on those plates. So you're left in a no-win situation. Either the plates weigh crazy amounts, or the plates had even less substance to them to create the text of the BOM.

[@juliehomer]

Thank you for this.

[@donnasumner1218]

Who hammered them ??

[@grumpysgarage7276]

@@longnamenocansayy Joseph Smith took theories from a manuscript written from a novel by Solomon Spaulding for the BOM

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"Is Joseph Smith's Story Possible?" Yes. What seems impossible is for him to produce the Book of Mormon in 60 days, from scratch, without education or resources. This would be an easy thing to test; pick out a 21 year old farm boy that has never been to school, maybe a bit of home schooling, set him down with a scribe and in 60 days produce a book similar to the Book of Mormon.

[@user-rg9yz5ou4y]

Smith claimed to have supernatural powers given to him by God. If one accept his claim that he was a prophet and latter-day saint. God , according to Christian and Jewish doctrines , does the power to lend supernatural powers to his servants,

[@JaeMonroe0988]

My Dad at a young age.. grabbed a full grown man by the legs and threw him.. you don’t know loggers… I used to move 20,000 pounds a day with my bare hands.. 🙌 and I grantee in my prime. Now, did he hold that under him the entire time.. probably not.. you take a verse and say “can you do that for 3 miles!” When a farm boy could have changed position!

[@rickdeleon5940]

The golden plates was about 40 pounds. According to the witness.

[@clarestucki5151]

This guy doesn't say how thick his lead plates are nor how much space exists between his plates. and he obviously cannot know those same facts about the alleged gold plates.

[@D-Flin]

Gold plates was most likely a description of color than the material they were made. It was most likely made of an alloy with gold appearance. Here is a rebuttal video kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3azkJ-Da7eBp7s Thanks

[@barryrichins]

Well done, my friends!!! I agree with your argument. I am an agnostic, mostly because of my religious studies. After deep dives into the Mormon as well as the Judeo-Christian scriptures, I decided that they all were not worthy of my beliefs. Dan Barker's, "God The most Unpleasant Character In All Fiction" pretty much sums up my conclusion. The gods of the Book of Mormon and and the Bible are not beings I wish to be associated with any longer. You mentioned the impossible weight of the plates to carry around. Have you ever given much thought to the number of Israelites who left Egypt? Supposedly, Moses had 600,000 fighting men in his entourage. Extrapolating from that number for women, children, and older men that number could be close to 2,000,000 people, not to mention the sizes of their herds and flocks. can you imagine the length of of their walking column or the size of their camp? God told the people to defecate outside the camp so he wouldn't have to walk in their excrement as he walked through their camp at night. How far do you think, men, women an children had to walk just to get to the outskirts of their camp? Where did their flocks and herds find pasture in the Sianai desert? To provide food and drink for the humans, God had to resort to miracles. Of course, we can ask many more questions of how a group of more than 2,000,000 wanderers lived forty years in such an inhospitable region. In my present understanding neither the Bible nor the Book of Mormon fit my assumption of literature inspired any kind of an omniscient god.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

Left CHRISTIANITY, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, refused to repent, from personal sins, make excuses.

[@krissander1]

Smith's attackers must have been zimmer frame users😁

[@jaredrice9404]

I have seen my relative in the spirit world and was able to question if I was still in the body or not. a spiritual eye is a real thing. I didn't touch them, a failure on my part, but if I had I have no doubt they were physical. it was pure white light like we don't even know in mortality even brighter then noon day. I look forward to seeing them again when I die on the highest level of heaven.

[@byonnoyb]

Satan also disguises himself and his minions as people from the other side...psychics dabble in such things and also believe they are communicating with dead relatives as well..they are not. You won't get to see any gold plates in Heaven because they don't exist. It's the mental gymnastics that your leaders constantly prime members with to keep them from critically thinking with investigative minds. If you're brought up as a Mormon you're programmed to believe without ANY form of investigation being possible from infancy. If you're a convert, it's not really about six weeks of "investigation"...you simply believe in those feelings you get that help to soothe what you need at the time without actually investigating. There was never a great apostacy...never a lost priesthood, keys or plain and precious practices etc and therefore from these false statements alone, Mr Smith was a liar!

[@joeholland7459]

You forgot Joseph Smith spun & put his cape on..Flew them home & a few years later put cape on to fly around & get to spend nights with his lady friends..Get script writer thou.😁🙂

[@joeholland7459]

Great Screen play..I wonder who he is writing for now..way down deep in the fire pit.

[@johnrowley310]

Find the true Jesus of the Bible...

[@jonwilyscott]

And yet it’s all true!

[@jupite1888]

He must have eaten his greens as a kid

[@MrWhosegaloo]

plates are not the issue the point is Jesus Christ's story in the gospels is complete in the bible for almost 2000 years before a farmer con man was born to claim / Lie create a false religion from a lie again remember Galatians chapter 1-9 if anyone preaches another gospel even if it is an angel made from macaroni let him be accused

[@briandavis6898]

Obviously it was an alloy. Case solved.

[@jamesmaclean5586]

Joseph was huge…6’3 or so, doing the hardest farm work…. no machines …. and I suppose Samson like strength cant be given to a prophet? Will God fail in fulfilling His biblical promises? Where is the hope in a Christianity that continues to splinter(outside the restored Church of the joyful name of Jesus Christ) since the original prophets and apostles were killed without them passing on the Melchizedek and Aaronic keys of authority mentioned in Hebrews 6 verse 20 of the New Testament? You will all soon be blessed to see the greatest miracles in history…. believe in or not! All Gods actual binding words will be fulfilled…. this is my witness! Ive been rescued!

[@mikeballou7598]

The thing is, as it has been explained to me, and maybe you, the plates were evidently not pure gold. That said, they might have had an appearance of gold. The poor young Jos. Smith was neither a scholar nor an expert in the field of translation, be it with a stone, glasses, or whatever. Doesn't matter. Many things about this story make no sense. Unreliable sources. Yet the Book of Mormon, which I'd not read for some time and had taken an interest in within the last six months is a powerful book and speaks of Christ, which is the purpose of the book.

[@fred-62]

Lets get this straight, Samson could kill a Lion with his bare hands, Moses parted the red sea, Peter walked on water. But Joseph Smith couldnt lift 200 pounds

[@livingwaterministries9319]

False no knows how havey the plates were number 1the plates were thicker than tinfoil but not as thick as tin so somewhere in between there for no one can know how heavy they were unless we know the thickness or typ of gold.

[@jjwinn2495]

IF they were that thin, when JS ran and fell multiple times in 3 miles while being chased by thugs, the plates would have been damaged. They had to be sturdy, however, since JS made up the whole thing (like he falsely translated the papyri which made the book of Abraham), then its a moot point.