Gold league player has Artosis MELTDOWN | Salt Mines #4 - StarCraft 2

[@PiGstarcraft]

How to submit a replay for Salt Mines! Everyone has encountered a salty opponent on the ladder before. Send in your funniest, saltiest replays to [e-mail] with “Salt Mines” in the title + in the body of the email add your IGN & Rank & Why you think your opponent got salty.

[@xenniealsentinel1800]

When I think I see someone playing your b2gm in pvp I just cancel expo and rush zelot win

[@mihalypeti]

Hollow was destroyed by terrans too much so he decided to try it out, only to realize terran counters terran too

[@Davo5673]

Terran is OP vs terran 100% of the time.

[@anzyroadside2374]

Given how the win rates of Terran against Terran is 50% across all TvT matches, the game is super balanced.

[@thewhiteknight3945]

@@anzyroadside2374 I doubt your stats. Last time I check, the win rate of Terran in TvT is 100%, which obviously proves its an unbalanced race.

[@d07RiV]

@@anzyroadside2374 terran winrate is definitely 100% in tvt

[@MultiChrisjb]

@@anzyroadside2374 yeah well a Zerg or P0rotoss has literally never won a TvT, then how can Terran not be OP esp in this matchup?

[@Volkaer]

Damn - Flo spent years not building upgrades for this sort of reaction and didn't get it. Feels like he's been robbed from this level of salt :(

[@PiGstarcraft]

hahahahaha

[@oliverhetherington1677]

Hollow here i was mad at Terrans ability to turtle really hard when behind, didn't doom drop because I thought he had turrets and tanks on the high ground was funny to watch myself get picked apart and pull my hair seeing all the free shots i had but was too tilted to see glad collider handed this one in lmfao

[@nyx211]

the late orbitals killed you

[@MrLastlived]

Excellent game played, let this be a hilarious lesson to us all in information warfare :P

[@PiGstarcraft]

OMG ARTY IS HERE!

[@PatrickSmithPhD]

Honestly your upgrade timing and maintenance was very impressive, and your micro was way better than his overall. If you fix a few macro things, you defintely win this game :)

[@patatequiroule]

The contrast between the uneventfull early game and the meltdown at the end was perfect.

[@theswiss9063]

I dont know what race HollowAdv comes from originally, but something tells me that he'll fit right in as a Terran.

[@manthe3711]

He definitely has that Terran whining spirit.

[@Zeuts85]

@@manthe3711 Terrans at least have a reason to whine. I'm a zerg player, but even I'll admit that my race is easy-peasy compared to Terran. It's why I play zerg... I tried Terran. Too hard.

[@stankobarabata2406]

​@@Zeuts85terran has a lot of moving parts in an army and requires better micro. zerg is generally a macro reliant race. its more so playstyles. then you have the crayola protoss like me who likes high templars and disruptors a bit too much.

[@glassberg5018]

HollowAdv's rage was so pure that it's only available with a doctor's recommendation.

[@Cowclops]

Watching now but just based off the first few seconds: if a plat protoss has to "go back to gold" because void rush into mass carrier stopped being a good strat, sounds like the balance patch is working as expected. I main terran but in the months leading up to the void nerf I switched to just playing skytoss every match just to prove how easy it was. I got into a higher league than I was as terran and had some of the lowest stress matches of starcraft i've ever played. I didn't hit 100% winrate, but i'd either "very easily win" or "lose quickly to cheese with minimal frustration since I wasn't really trying to counter all possible attacks, just doing the same thing over and over." So glad it got changed.

[@TrippleDartBtd]

well, I mained toss but then I kept losing to terran, so I tried terran and I got masters in under 60 games without cheese, and with cheese I got 4800 in under 60 games, so I dont think that toss is any easier, or that they have better cheeses.

[@Cowclops]

@@TrippleDartBtd but your benchmark was making masters, I assume you were already high diamond as protoss at a minimum. The simple explanation is that protoss has a high skill floor and a low skill ceiling. Bad players can get surprisingly far with crap tactics, but good players run out of steam once they have to start facing really good zergs and terrans. Its not the OP race, its the noob-friendly race, but the general consensus is there shouldn't be a "noob friendly" race that sucks at the high level.

[@HieronymousLex]

@@Cowclops typical Protoss slander. Every time you lose to Protoss it’s gotta be because they’re the “noob race” even though Terran is easier to pick up in the lowest leagues. I literally never go skytoss, tell me that Protoss takes no skill. My offrace is Zerg and it’s almost the same MMR. Guess I’m just a noob who gets carried by toss though right? And I’ll never be able to keep climbing with Protoss despite the top 100 players who use them

[@Cowclops]

@@HieronymousLex Lol slander. Protoss IS the noob race because its extremely hard to play at high levels and extremely easy to play at low levels. Certainly, there are professional Toss players who win and put on a good show. I regularly beat them, especially now that voids cost what they should so they're not the no risk midgame strat before you can mass carriers. Before the nerf, proxy void+battery was essentially an unstoppable strat unless you got lucky and matched vs somebody a full league below you who couldn't do it right. The takeaway is: Protoss is a low stress/low effort way to get a 50% winrate at the same level I can play Terran, though it would take skill I don't posess to do better as Protoss than I do as terran. As I always say, the skill floor is higher, and the skill ceiling is lower. And I just don't think its very well designed. But its not unstoppable (nobody said that) and its not ONLY for noobs, but it has some baseline strategies that don't take very much APM to do correctly that just happen to not gain much power with added APM either. If you're diamond or higher, essentially none of this applies to you.

[@ZergIingLover]

@@HieronymousLex as a plat 1/low diamond zerg main, Terran has always been the hardest race for me.

[@moozoo82]

I’ll jokingly complain about a race being OP in a mirror match, I didn’t actually think people did that un-ironically.

[@ledrash6079]

He is most likely off-racing :)

[@DoggyP00]

He wasn't really saying terran was OP, he was saying A-moving is underpowered. +5 upgrades and bigger army should be able to A-move through anything according to my own rts brain as well

[@yaboykirby7789]

People do that ALL the time in Mech vs Bio.

[@GollyGeeWilikers]

@@DoggyP00 same here! that's why i'm silver league! at BEST

[@Zeuts85]

@@DoggyP00 I mean, he practically did A-move through his opponents army at a couple places--when it was infantry vs infantry. But then he just kinda bull-rushed an entrenched siege position. No amount of upgrades should save you from a silly move like that.

[@dejake_aoe]

Salt mines is the series I'm most hyped for from PiG, love it!

[@Cowclops]

Now that I've seen the whole thing, : I read hollowadv's rant at the end as "You had so much crap but DIDN'T research your upgrades? what the hell?" I know he's tilted for the loss and his bio army was super powerful, but I think that was a pretty legit "how did you screw that up and still win" reaction. The goofy thing is that failing to bring the tanks meant he didn't win as soon as he could have, but leaving the tanks at home seiged also meant that hollowadv never got the chance to drop on them unseiged, and instead just... suicided into the high ground tanks. Such a weird outcome, and if collider unseiged at the wrong time he easily could have lost, but not bringing the tanks to the main push meant he didn't instawin... but not moving them out at all is also why he won? It just fries my brain a little bit to think about.

[@jiayojames]

That artosis impression tho

[@adamcolt7659]

Two years later this is still my favorite Salt Mines. Dude had every advantage, made the obviously worst possible decision every time, and still couldn't comprehend the "more stuff beats less stuff" axiom. Truly a masterpiece.

[@sc2youtube744]

The chatting before a cannon rush / 12 pool / proxy is huge BM in my mind

[@HieronymousLex]

Yeah for real, don’t say glhf to me and then cannon rush me like some kind of bronze leaguer

[@PatrickSmithPhD]

@@HieronymousLex Personally I don't get it. No matter what your opponent says or does, you never lose the ability to choose to look at your scout or react to what you see. The player who lost to the cannon rusher didn't even look at what he was scouting and didn't react to the rush. He also wasn't typing back. He was just being bad... It's not the same as asking a question in the chat right before your reapers jump in, or your oracle, or something like that. The opening chat had no bearing on how poorly the defending player handled the rush imo

[@florianbielawa2919]

That second game really shows T players are too busy sniffing glue and licking windows in TvT to take advantage of nerfed void rays in PvP

[@senjiukanuba5569]

About the GLHF from one person but not the other: I noticed that if you write "gl hf" during the countdown at the start it does not become part of the replay. So the other person might have said it then but we don't see it. I started writing it after I make my first SCV now. :)

[@otelloreichmann6576]

To be fair, I as a terran will never hate anything more than TvT.

[@imzesok]

I, as a random player, will also never hate anything more than TvT. not even cannon rushes, or proxy voids(or skytoss in general). TvT is hands down the worst.

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

@@imzesok it's the most skilled of the mirror matchups

[@MisterNightfish]

What keeps blowing my mind is that people pretty high up on the ladder use fewer control groups than I do just playing casual co op :D

[@kadensmith8851]

This is my favorite video series of yours so far! I love the drama

[@Miro_X]

Well, I for the first time I have submitted a replay myself - I love watching Pig's casts and roasts of our mediocre play, so I can't wait to see more, because they're damn entertaining. There's something amusing about Salt Mines that just gets you.

[@tambaz2276]

Imagine raging when you lose a mirror matchup where you and your opponent do identical builds. Couldn't possibly get a more skill based outcome lol

[@James-uk4xi]

At my level no one can type and play well so I always try to say as little as I can to keep it going as long as possible. At least when they chat me. That's not the kind of advantage I want unless it's being used against me

[@archyology]

PiG mate, this series is so funny, it's therapeutic.

[@meandmyself1600]

Awesome vid. Second match is amazing - Salt Mines meets Game of Throws

[@lynk_1240]

Oh the salt in that last game is like Dead Sea level saltiness 😂😂😂😂

[@PiGstarcraft]

ROFL perfectly put! Who's saltier? The Dead Sea or HollowAdv?

[@Colonel_Klink]

That rage from Hollow was definitely worth the watch. It did 10/10 sound like Artosis!

[@ledrash6079]

I am at 16:45, and just realized i know who will win (or at least think i know) because i noticed the thumbnail. Thats a little sad, but still entertaining :)

[@carlodimaandal]

that one-word question response was PERFECT!

[@AerinSwift]

"Hollow advice" from Pig made me literally lmao

[@bertdrake]

Thanks for the work you do, you are my favorite SC2 caster now! Respect!

[@turkleton9113]

This series never disappoints! Love the video!

[@MrSpleenface]

RE the mirror matches: there are some cheeses that I think are (or were) “unfair”. Proxy Void rays pre battery nerf comes to mind.

[@theblackantonio]

Yeah, and immortal drops some patches back etc

[@Dennzer1]

what is a battery nerf?

[@MrSpleenface]

@@Dennzer1 They nerfed shield batteries around a month ago. They now warp in with half energy if they aren't close to a nexus

[@Dennzer1]

@@MrSpleenface Oh, thank you.

[@boyavatar2000]

This is such a fun series. Salt is DELICIOUS. Ta Pig!

[@jimmyha1898]

wow I just saw this video and....the last game left me speechless XD The man decided to ram in deep into 4 seiged tanks through a corner and up a ramp, and then complains that he lost the game. I am having some difficulty understanding the thought process. He dominated the fight prior to that so hard because of his 5 upgrade advantage. Red's army evaporated because 1-0 Marine Marauder won't do anything to 3-3 Marine Marauder. He had all the advantage you could ask for. Hell, he could have thrown down 5 Starports and a Fusion Core, started BC production and still won the game. Mind = blown.

[@PiGstarcraft]

Never underestimate a Starcraft player's ability to take a free win and THROW IT ON THE GROUND, lonely island style

[@karolw9466]

3:40 I think every message before countdown finishes is not displayed in replays.

[@samt.9584]

a "glhf" from my ladder opponents are enough for me to suspect a proxxy

[@koryth7920]

loving the rimworld soundtrack, nice one!

[@florianeck6512]

The artosis joke killed me 😂

[@JohnWilliams-qi9mg]

A year late on the comment, but that Artosis impression at the end was top notch!

[@SeriousApache]

LoL. PiG has been baited to complain "there is no way it's diamond"

[@bathroomlew]

Just by control groups and units control alone, I have a strong feeling that collider is or was a Warcraft 3 player. We all put our buildings on 5 and 6 and move the army like that. He was basically using tanks as tower rushers do with their towers in 1v1 - you first secure the spot to contain the enemy in their base with your army and buy time for the Ancient Protectors to join soon after or defend workers building towers... or could be average unit control.

[@wowzanpakutou]

Spot on Artosis impersonation.

[@forge16hanadamaintenancedr43]

Just realized Rimworld music goes pretty well with starcraft

[@OneFluffyKiriko]

Listening to RimWorld music while seeing StarCraft is bizzare and it's breaking my brain

[@KhasAdun1990]

It's crazy how much he sounds like Artosis.

[@archyology]

Dude I was laughing so hard at him reading the stuff in Artosis voice.

[@Deto128]

I love this series!

[@arcturus64]

Hollow most likely a former P, I mean out of the 3 races P is the one that hard focuses on upgs the most.

[@jaguh9069]

I like how you keep jumping between advice & advantage for his name lol

[@Cawfeesomething]

You should ask Flo. I think he’s studying psychology because of sc2 :D

[@kylelataxes1595]

Calling your opponent’s race imba in a mirror matchup. Now I’ve seen it all.

[@dsweet5273]

I think you enjoy watching low level players play much more than I do. I can only watch for a few minutes before the frustration gets overwhelming.

[@Gaylent]

Hollow is absolutely a protoss player because he thought getting 3 armor would have made him immune to marine damage, like it would have if he was using zealots and immortals.

[@SaithMasu12]

I mean you are not immune to it, but you basically do 50% more damage.

[@Pho7on]

Wow, HollowAdv definitely snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory there, impressive stuff.

[@joshuashaw8752]

A lot of the time glhf is exchanged in the 3 seconds before the replay starts

[@ryomasjibeng8343]

LMFAO THAT TVT IS DELICIOUS

[@BalimaarTheBassFish]

"44APM for diamond?!?!" I mean.... I was nearly diamond league in HotS with 60 as Protoss and probably would have had my promo if I didnt fall sick in the last week of the season

[@pbell891]

where did you get that hat Pig?

[@PiGstarcraft]

from a blizzcon years ago

[@PiGstarcraft]

oh im thinking of the wrong cap. Twitch sent me that for being a partner

[@simonberney8421]

As a Terran I can genuinely say I love tvt. Sure it can be difficult, but I love the positional/tactical side to it. And most of the time the most skilled player wins.

[@Gredddfe]

My man the hollow terran leaves his production facilities idle 99% of the game, wonders why his opponent says his macro is bad.

[@kingpet]

i think hollow should submit his game to Harstem "is it imba or do i suck". Spoiler alert: It ain't imba.

[@peterparadis6788]

I love watching a toss player get cannon rushed.

[@LordMephilis]

The only way for that to be more Artosis is if he paused before the rant

[@GreenHorseVR]

I dont blame darkwave one bit lmao

[@jeffr3773]

This would be like playing a chess match and being like "omg white is so IMBA, how can you play white, they're so overpowered. Why are you doing that with your rooks, that isn't fair, why are your rooks better than my rooks, something is wrong with the game!"

[@monkeybunny89]

Artosis, is that you?

[@yanshi4807]

KZbin bell notified me of a 1 year old video 😂

[@jerubaal101]

7:50 I mean, we just nerfed two Protoss units because people "didn't like it" even though it was proven to be completely counterable.

[@stellatrabucco4494]

Its crazy to me how so many people have such little ability to analyse and critique their own performance. "I played perfect and still lost, this game is broken". Lol. Don't get me wrong, there are some things I think need changing but even when I loose I usually am able to see where I ducked up or even if it was just build order loss or something. Watching the game replay helps a lot with me being able to identify and accept how I lost.

[@madbruv]

Nice rimworld music ;)

[@wiczus6102]

Just because it's mirror matchup doesn't mean it's balanced. If a small detail or a detail that is usually decided by chance decides who wins, then it is a poorly balanced race.

[@GawlJoey]

Proves that Terran players are actual psychopaths

[@timothythomad5529]

I had a guy call me a smurf account because I beat him, and I'm like, dude, I'm a Plat player barely, you're just way worse than me. Melting down over a video game is something I will never understand.

[@PiGstarcraft]

it's a compliment to be called a smurf (unless you are one!)

[@timothythomad5529]

@@PiGstarcraft He wasn't complimenting lol and I suck so it wasn't accurate. He just was way worse. lol

[@HieronymousLex]

To be fair, smurfs are rampant in the game. And you’re not supposed to be the same MMR as someone who is “way worse”. That explains why he thought you were smurfing, it makes perfect sense. Also, don’t lie. Everyone is affected by gamer rage occasionally. It’s how you handle it that matters. But nobody is immune to it and don’t pretend like you don’t understand it

[@timothythomad5529]

@@HieronymousLex We were both low level platinum, which other than occasionally hitting diamond in team play is where I have stayed since forever because I am 52 lol and I might play one game a day if that. I just understand basic things like expanding and spending my money, which he did not. So yeah, he was way worse, but at low level platinum, we all suck pretty hard. He just stumbled his way there probably via cheese or even a bit of luck.

[@GeminiShadow]

I hope I see this submitted to Harstem for “is it IMBA” because it’s 100% balanced and dude is salty about how terrible he is with Terran.

[@creazzZly]

but even if hollow offraced he didnt realise terran has 100% winrate in tvt

[@corbindewaal7294]

I've been away for like a year what's new with sc2?

[@SaiKisaragi]

Void Rays got a huge buff in move speed, then got nerfed recently. Queen walk got nerfed. And I forgot what Terran got, but it wasn’t important.

[@powdoa]

Comedy gold! lol

[@geuros]

If pre-patch Protoss players actually tried playing macro instead of proxy void ray battery every time maybe they wouldn't complain about Terran lol ...

[@poulthomas469]

Comment about how it should be liberating but people always want the edge. It's why people cheat. Winning is more important than the game.

[@creazzZly]

ive never seen so bad players i really thought i play bad in masters

[@emily-wq8xd]

HAHAHA IM FRIENDS WITH HOLLOW LMAO

[@elijahpeck3540]

I have no words...

[@ecotechpestservices]

“Found artosis sc2 account” 💀💀💀💀😂😂😂

[@filthcauldron2441]

I can't say much about this one. Tvt is hard haha

[@vaccuumboogie5161]

Mind....BLOWN xD

[@tosemusername]

Terran isn't OP.. But Ghosts are.

[@s0ulAssassintv]

44apm is normal for diamond protoss

[@razorbackblood06]

Pretty sure I've played hollow and collider, they are both clowns.

[@christophermerritt8200]

macro? killed me!

[@Galahad54]

I wanna get salted like why! Why AI not salt?

[@michaelcartmell7428]

Why do people get tilted during mirror match-ups more? Because they no longer have anything to blame but their own incompetence. They can't say "AARGH! IMBA!", and don't know how else to deal with the inescapable revelation that they just suck.

[@HieronymousLex]

I honestly don’t know what it is about mirror matches, but something about the way games are balanced makes them less fun. Even in other genres like fighting games, mirror matches just play awkwardly. For me I know I suck and it has 0% to do with “blaming imba” because I never do that. I don’t even hate mirror matches, I just recognize that they’re a little bit less fun than the other matchups. Even though my winrate is 60% in my mirror this season

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

@@HieronymousLexbecause the absolute unit symmetry polarizes and forces very strict build orders and severely punishes deviations

[@matzed1518]

GIMME SALT!!

[@drakorez]

Just play like Maru

[@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer]

Terran so weak! Can't even win vs Terran!

[@mamaluigi911]

lol good games

[@Dyrtbag68]

Terran is just gross.

[@StarcraftDr]

Hahaha

[@garrettsanders4832]

Ugh. Yes, it was funny, but it's not THAT funny. XD At 22:00 you're just forcing laughter. Dude, these are obviously 12 yo's.

[@MEGARAYMANable]

What 12 year olds play StarCraft?

[@samuelestebansotocarrascod4236]

Libra ♎🇨🇱🇨🇱🇨🇱🇨🇱