Do I need a Licence? - Sub70 Or NPPL or both - meeting a fellow flyer

[@InducedBank]

Great to see more folk taking up flexwings! Sub 70 or 'full' - either way I can't help but feel the NPPL(M) gives that bit extra airlaw knowledge that is super important for safety. Curious to know how well prepared the Sub 70 only pilots feel for flying further afield than their local airfield? Happy to be edumacated!!

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

That is an interesting stance on the education piece. As part of the BHPA syllabus, airlaw is covered, covering all the fundamentals of airspace etc. You'd be surprised how many licenced pilots forget the basics as well. Unlicensed doesn't necessarily mean untrained or uneducated.

[@InducedBank]

Cheers Giles, I'm 'uneducated' about the Sub 70 'unlicensed' class, so always keen to learn more

[@Sephizor]

I went the other way, from NPPL flexwings to sub-70! I was finding that I was rarely taking passengers when flying 2 seat microlights and was having to take a big bag of sand up with me every time for ballast. I'm also pretty bad at mechanical stuff but the Vitorrazi engines are even simpler than the Rotax 462 I had on my Flash 2A and I feel more comfortable working with it. They're easier to rig/derig, and move by yourself, and can be carried inside a car (which is great for me because my car cannot tow trailers!). Finally cost, I was able to get a brand new Peabee with options for less than the cost of a 14 year old Quik. I still hold an NPPL and am considering making my Peabee SSDR but I quite like the zero bureaucracy that comes with sub-70 so we'll see 😄

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Wow, that's an interesting take on the Sub70 to NPPL. I've had no issues with a G reg on my Sub70 to make it SSDR and at least the hours count to keep your licence current.

[@CalmingAnxiety]

I do love how YT recommend a video from a year ago. Although I follow you I hadnt seen this. After a 10 year break I am getting back to paramotoring this year. Eventually to go down the weight shift micro light route. Live in North Devon so may well see you in the skies in the years to come. Keep up the amazing content and as always, fly safe.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Calming Anxiety, sorry for not getting back to you sooner, its been a busy week of travelling. North Devon is a beautiful area to fly and I'm happy to have my PeaBee back in the area to enjoy it. Where will you be flying from? Area wise?

[@CalmingAnxiety]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Im based in Barnstaple. Use Codden Hill as the perfect 360 take off site. But also drive out to Exmoor to take off, plus the beaches early morning in Summer. (and low tides).

[@nigelblackman5808]

I met you at Plaistows.As I said watched all your learning to fly videos, complimented you on the quality of production. Never mind the amazing teaching aid, going over all the main points so solidly, repeating the checklists, not easy to remember. Its just like having a real flying Lesson, perfect for the beginner starting out😊

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Nigel, it was great to meet you at Plaistows, yes I do remember you. Checklists are just a matter of practice and having silly phrases in your head.

[@Chris-Fennimore]

Giles, great info as always. Thanks. And Congratulations to Chris! 👍😎👍

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

So from one Chris to another Chris. I'll let him know about you comment.

[@chrsfrwll]

Thanks Chris

[@asquaddie]

Awesome video again. They can't get much better. Excellent incite to upgrading and maybe one day for me too.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Tony, there is no rush, just enjoy the journey.

[@vauxscott]

Another good video Giles, full of good info. I'm loving flying mine unlicensed, but I can see me probably finishing the full nppl in the future, just so I can share the flying fun with others when the opportunity arises. And the added bonuses that registering the PB as ssdr brings, extra fuel, hours counting etc.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Thank you Scott, I know we chat a lot about this and I know you'll take the path that suits you.

[@ShortField]

Great vlog Giles and nice landing, not been to Brown Shutters but fancy a visit soon, looks like some wires close to the 33 threshold? Can any of the hours gained on an NPPL(m) be counted toward SSEP and can any of these be counted toward a full PPL? It's been a long long time since I did my licence and although I got a FREE lifelong NPPL SSEP licence when they first came out about 18 years ago (no cost and thought would be good as a backup as I got older and medicals became harder) I've never been in a position where I've had to use it, so not too sure how it all fits in now?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Terry, there are some wires but it's a displaced threshold (white cones) so loads of heigtt and distance before you can touchdown. They are so friendly there. I'm still not sure on what hours can count from licence to licence, it's all a bit confusing as there are so many different licences.

[@freebiker2765]

Hi Giles. A very helpful video, re-igniting the dormant debate in my mind about continuing for the NPPL. It’s clear that the sub70 is a great stepping stone to the license and I agree with Induced Bank that further training for the NPPL makes for a more experienced pilot. But after much thought, I’ve decided to stick with my Adam with regular practical and theoretical revision, of course. I bought the Adam last year at 70 after years of ineffective tinkering with HGs and PGs and completed the BHPA sub70 syllabus training on a GT450. But after the last week’s flying I realise that all I am ever likely to do now is to make short flights in and around my part of Cornwall - I must be an inveterate ‘bimbler’. Compared to the Adam, the GT450 feels like a tank and the differences are huge - from positives, like landing at 40 instead of 60+, to negatives, such as being thrown around by thermals like a leaf instead of riding through them. Twenty years younger I would certainly have been unable to resist progressing further, but now I’m just so grateful that the development of this wonderful craft has finally provided the opportunity to enjoy the skies…. Thanks so much for prompting me to settle my mind on this issue. Cheers. John

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi John, it's the joy of aviation, you can literally take it as far as you want. I think Sub70 has opened so many doors for a lot of pilots that would otherwise not be able to (knees etc). I think there will always be a debate about skill level between a Sub70 pilot and NPPL. I would happily debate the pluses and minuses of both as it also comes down to experience level before entering. Continuing to be educated is all down to the pilots, and after seeing some of the airmanship at Popham this weekend, I'd contest that an NPPL or PPL makes for a better more experienced pilot (slight tongue in cheek).

[@patrickmckowen2999]

I am envious of your growing flexwing community. Looking forward to the 1st formation squadron flight.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Patrick, are there many local fliers to you?

[@patrickmckowen2999]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 in the Microlight class, a few PPG. I'm the only Flexwing. Lots of Ultralights, mostly Challengers at my field where I am at.

[@robward7873]

QNH/QFE on the Naviter - as you say just a tap of the stylus - many thanks Giles!

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Rob, it does make life easier, but if only the Oudie had a little rotary knob to adjust it.

[@leehewitt9559]

Great video, Giles - very interesting and informative. I can’t seem to find Glebe Farm on Sky Demon

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Lee, I do try to make interesting content, more exciting stuff to come. Glebe Farm isn't on there, it's not an official strip, but it does exist ;).

[@ComeFlyFlex]

Only 5 hours into my NPPL-M Flex training and loving every minute of it.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Martin, silly grins are allowed.

[@touringmoose]

I have 35 hrs logged on a Icarus c42 microlight and got about five hours solo, but due to a motorcycle accident I had to give it up and just never got back to it when I was fit. I never finished the license and only took the air law exam. This was 7-8 years ago. This vid throws up a few questions for me. What is a ballpark figure for insurance? I'm guessing insurance companies are a bit wary of unlicensed fliers? How far would the limited fuel load take you? What airspeed would these achieve? It's quite interesting.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Touring mouse, if the aircraft is Sub70, then you are probably looking at around sub 2 hours, it all depends on how much the machine weighs and how much you can get in to either Sub70 or 75kg with a reserve. With regards to insurance, I use the BHPA insurance which is currently £164 a year for 3rd party and we'll worth every penny. The air speed of the Adam wing is around 45 mph. If you look at some of my more recent content, we flew to Scotland on or machines, although they are SSDR'd, most of the legs could have easily be covered with Sub70 fuel limits imposed. I hope that helps. If you have any further questions please feel free to ask. And welcome to the channel.

[@flyingkub]

It is an interesting view. When I looked at the cost od some sub 70 flex wings, I thought hard about it and then almost went the way of NPPL, with a view of buying a 2 seat flex wing as the fact the 2 seaters at the time were so cheap compared to the sub 70s; as it turned out I went back to my roots with 3 axis when a wind fall gave me axes to the funds to buy my plan. All that, despite being able to fly foot launched powered hang gliders, so sub 70 was the obvious choice. Not sure what I would do now.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

That is the beauty of flying, it gives us such a variety of options that suit our needs. The thing to remember is that the current 2 seaters are all old with no replacements. The Sub70s are all new so the costs can't really be compared.

[@flyingkub]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 True most two seaters are old and the new ones are expensive from the USA but cheap and later down the line they could go to a single seater, they also let people share with other the experiance of flying, go faster and further. Just putting the other side. I think it is always a case of all should look at the different options and their mission and then work out the route that works for them, some sub 70, NPPL single other NPPL cheap 2 seater or straight in to SSDR NPPL, it is all down to budget, mission, hangar available, it might be a cast of having a share in an aircraft even an SSDR or Sub 70 might be an option.

[@jamiepowell8025]

Even more inspiration to ho for an NPPL! 😎👍 Another brilliant video, thanks 😎👍

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Jamie, what route would you take then? I'm glad you are enjoying the videos.

[@jamiepowell8025]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Hi, I'm aiming for the full nppl but will go sub 70 without a doubt. It's the best of powered flight and flexwing flying. Really want to try thermalling in one 😎👍

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@jamiepowell8025 I've set myself a challenge to turn the engine off and thermal away.

[@jamiepowell8025]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 It just seems to be a natural thing to do due to the light weight of the aircraft. I've tried hang gliding, paragliding and had a couple of flexwing lessons as well as trying a C42 but the Adam just stands out as the perfect aircraft for my aims.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@jamiepowell8025 and they give big grins for the hourly cost as well.

[@huffpappy]

Hello Giles, I am curious as to what your occupation is. Another great video.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Huffdaddy, did your Channel used to be call Samhuff?

[@huffpappy]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Yep, Huffdaddy is the nickname I had when I served in the Air Force (because I'm an old codger). I used to operate and maintain tracking radars on a bombing range.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@huffpappy I'm just about to leave the Royal Air Force after over 2 decades. I was an airframes and Propulsion technician and also worked in Logistics all over the world. That's probably as much as I can give out.

[@huffpappy]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Can you tell me which planes you worked on? When I was young, I was a weapons tech on F-4Ds and A-10s at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge in Suffolk. The Vulcan is one of my all time favorites. We had one do a flyover at our open house back in 1979. What a gorgeous jet (and loud!).

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@huffpappy I visited Bentwaters (I grew up on the east coast just north of there). I worked on VC10s out of Brize.

[@clearprop]

This is really thought-provoking stuff, Giles, and particularly pertinent to where I am now on my journey. I'd like to chew the fat with you for a few minutes at the weekend if that's ok? Really value your input. 🙂

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Dan, more than happy to chew the fat.

[@flybe146]

That was terrific Giles really interesting! I wonder if you can tell me do you need to do any written exams to do the Sub 70 course? I guess if you have an old lapsed PPL and/or have had flying experience you don't really need to do the sub 70 course do you? How many cameras did you use to film that interview Giles was it one and you then digitally cut to a close-up of your friend or 2 cameras?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello David, there is no licence for Sub70, which is the same as Hang Gliding, paragliding paramotoring etc. There is no course as such, just the BHPA and BMAA desire to make sure that pilots are prepared. I only used 1 camera for the interview, as you guessed I just zoomed in when Chris was talking. Not long till Popham😁.

[@PilotChris06FW]

What's the advantages of going NPPL for something like a sub70.... for someone who just wants to bimble around???

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Bimbling is what Sub70 is made for. Not needing a licence (just insurance) makes Sub70 so much more accessible. But if you have the NPPL lessons already in the Logbook as part of the Sub70 lessons, then the NPPL is only a short hope away.

[@PilotChris06FW]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Thanks for the reply... if you don't mind me asking..how much is a Hull cover policy for a peebee??

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@PilotChris06FW I've not really looked into it. I just have the BHPA 3rd party insurance.

[@frizzlefry5904]

I have the snake sub 70 ... for a bimble and as I passed my NPPL , I am lucky to rent a P&M ... by the way Giles how many hours have you put on that now ?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hello Frizzlefry, you certainly have a variety of flexwings to fly. I only have about 80 hours on my Peabee, not many hours I know. I've not flown a Snake but do want to try one.

[@frizzlefry5904]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Feel free to drop in to Sutton Meadow some time.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@frizzlefry5904 Sutton Meadow is on my list to visit.

[@frizzlefry5904]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Yes I remember, we spoke, oddly I think I am buying a quantum 912 .... so going the other way, I may keep or sell the sub 70 not sure yet.

[@captclivemason]

Fantastic

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Clive, are you playing catch up😜?

[@captclivemason]

Great vid guys :-)

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Cheers Clive. It was nice to just BIMBLE over to Brown Shutters to meet a friend. The joy of Aviation. #whywefly

[@turkeyphant]

Why would you get NPPL instead of PPL?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Jon, the major reason is cost. I had a PPL (A)(1996), but I couldn't afford to keep it, with hourly rental. The NPPL is only 25 hours for a twin seat aircraft, fixed wing or flexwing and the running cost a significantly lower. My Peabee is a microlight, uses under 6 litres an hour and my annual insurance is £150. From a financial perspective, its a no brainer. The Sub70 kg version of my aircraft do not even need a licence. I hope that helps.

[@NatJB]

As you know exactly the same route as myself, but with the present weather it's a question of what will be finished first, the sub 70 supervision or the NPPL GST. Great video as always.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Hi Nat, I think either way you'll have fun. I know your frustration but you'll get there.

[@luckybanjarabanjara216]

Good

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@luckybanjarabanjara216]

Hello sir contact

[@luckybanjarabanjara216]

Number

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I'm sorry I can't.

[@peterkelseyferryair2396]

Giles, I totally get why people go NPPL to become a Sub70 Pilot, I really cannot understand why people stay as unlicenced flyers to enjoy a restricted flexwing when as the interviewee just said it really was not much more to gain the NPPL to have the unrestricted use of the Sub70 at a better & safer fuel utilisation. Maybe I am missing the point of Sub 70 restricted flying, but in my bigoted opinion " I look upon NPPL Holders as Qualified Pilots " & "unlicenced Sub 70 users" as just being Flyers ;-) To put this into a Context: I have a friend that has a Sub70 & a SSDR Microlight...... he can freely fly his Sub70 (unlicenced) (* See Caveat in next paragraph about his Airfield Base* ) but he has to have an NPPL(M) to fly his SSDR Microlight, so I openly say that he is an Unlicenced Flyer of his Sub70 but will become a Qualified Pilot when he completes his NPPL GST of both his SSDR & Sub 70. Ironically, the Airfield he is currently training at has forbidden him from flying his Sub 70 until he gains his NPPL(M) even though he legally could fly it in the eyes of the CAA ( might be interesting to see if an unlicenced Sub 70 Flying visitor could get PPR to land there ? )

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Peter, I think you are missing the point and mixing both local airfield politics and the abilies and knowledge of the pilots. Licensed or unlicensed is not the point. The NPPL has a restricted licence, where no exams have been taken but the pilot is still flying, the pilot cannot carry passengers but has to remain local to the Airfield. On the flip side a Sub70 pilot that has gone through the BHPA process has had to pass an airlaw exam and can happily fly with the suitable knowledge of the skies. Licensing does not equal knowledge. I have also experienced airfield politics where licensed pilots, if they are flying a flexwing cannot land, even though the 3 axis equivalent uses the same engine. So my point is that assuming that licencing does not mean the pilot has knowledge of the skies. Chris who I interviewed actually received a significant reduction off his NPPL hours due to the very fact that he had a BHPA footlaunched powered hang glider pilot rating which proved he has xc experience and air law knowledge. Unlicensed does not mean uneducated.

[@peterkelseyferryair2396]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I am not sure I am missing the point, though I am open to accepting that Unlicenced does not necessarily mean uneducated ;-) I suppose having always been in the regulated & licenced style of flying I do have a biased view towards unlicenced flying........ I must admit having watched quite a few of your youtube videos I have softened my views on Sub 70 by a massive amount. I should clarify that the acquaintance I mentioned that has a Sub70 & a SSDR Microlight ( The Sub70 is actually a 2 axis Sub70 & his SSDR is a 3 axis ) I look at his 2 axis Sub70 as a Flying Machine that despite me being fully licenced I feel I would struggle to confidently control, yet he is free to fly sans licence & minimal training !!!! Now, the 3 axis SSDR is a pilots licence required aircraft, but legality aside I actually believe he would be safer if he took to the skies in that sans licence. I suppose I do have " Regulation running through my Aviation Veins " & cannot understand some parts of the Sub70 freedom !!! An Example is : I could fly a Sub70 that weighs 69.999kg including the fuel allowance & load my rather substantial torso into the pilots seat & legally fly to my hearts content ;-) But Someone 10kg lighter than me cannot load 13.88litres of extra fuel into their Sub70 as they would be then flying illegally based on a fuel uplift that exceeds the Sub70 restriction, yet still only puts his/her Sub70 at the same Take Off weight as I could legally fly at. Unless I am mistaken, Sub70 does not have an upper weight limit listed for Craft & crew combined? (obviously commonsense prevails in most folk, but some might just not give that a thought about Max weight ) Anyway, keep up the great videos because I am actually warming to the Sub70 Class.

[@ShortField]

@@peterkelseyferryair2396 I learnt everything I know about this sector from Giles and these vids and I still find it amazing that you can just buy a motorised aircraft jump in it and fly when even a 249 gram drone has to be registered and the operator noted to the authorities, seems bonkers or have I got this totally wrong, as usual 🙂

[@peterkelseyferryair2396]

@@ShortField I too find it amazing that you can just buy a motorised Sub70 aircraft jump in it & fly it, the bit that scares me is that a small minority of the people that can & do buy these Sub70 machines are not competent enough to fly anything more than a kite !!! Drones over 249grams became registered because too many Drone Flyers started to cause mayhem during their flights, personally I think the small minority that can & do fly a Sub70 minus any training have got a Golden opportunity to really mess it up for those that have done a bit of training, so it astounds me that the compliant Sub70 pilots are not showing much concern about the non compliant flyers. Giles has a superb way about him in the style of youtube video he puts out & I invariably look forward to his unique content as it has almost singlehandedly changed my opinion of Sub70. I do still believe that some pretty clever folk in the microlight industry saw an incredible loophole in the Sub70 Exemption & allowed them to take full advantage of it for the benefit of Able-bodied people when it was only supposed to be a Concession for the less agile people & existing BHPA Members that now have less dexterity in their legs than they used to have as Footlaunchers.

[@dalroache]

BOTH

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

I suppose the ironic thing is, if you have a Licence, you don't need a Sub70 machine as the hours won't count towards keeping your licence current.

[@blue_beephang-glider5417]

I plan to stay at sub 70. Why go more? I got my private pilot license in the early 1980s. A sub 70Kg gets you high in the air where you get the view. Go faster see less work harder. I know a guy in Australia “DrPeteParamotor” who has gone south to north across Australia in a paramotor 3000 plus Km! and July this year is going West to East across Australia... In a Paramotor... I went across the UK in a canal boat, people walk across it, old people! Slow down, look, Enjoy the view. Isn’t that what real flying is about?

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

He Blue_Bleep, do you fly in the UK?

[@blue_beephang-glider5417]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I'm on the other side of the planet... Aus

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

@@blue_beephang-glider5417 ahh cool. Do the Australian CAA have a Sub70kg exemption as well?

[@blue_beephang-glider5417]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Yes its exactly the same.

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

That good to know. Sub70 has been amazing for flexwing flying in the UK. It has certainly opened up so many opportunities for me.

[@tanleauto5994]

cánh lưới trong suốt như vậy bay được hay nhi

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Bạn hiểu NET là gì?

[@tanleauto5994]

tôi không hiểu ý a .nhung tôi thích môn này

[@justharryjohnson7250]

If I had the money I would too 😊

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

The irony is that they are not that much more expensive that a brand new paramotor set up.

[@justharryjohnson7250]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I just bought a new solo wing too 😭

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Ooouuuhhh.

[@DougBow96]

Blame it on Giles and his flying videos 🤣

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

Haha, I'm half guilty. Ben has a part to play. 😂😂✈️✈️💯

[@DougBow96]

@@GolfFoxtrot22 True, Ben's videos cause me to reach for my CC as well. LOL

[@flyskiride]

Not more ideas 😂

[@GolfFoxtrot22]

But you'll enjoy what ever journey you take.