Good Design, Bad Design - The Best & Worst of Graphic Design in Games ~ Design Doc

Graphic Design is EVERYWHERE in games, but rarely do we ever actually talk about it. Today, I take some time to look at the highs and lows in game UI, menus, and presentation.
Recent Work: Brutal Legend ~ • Recent Work: Brutal Le...
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[@DesignDoc]

Check out Vol. 2 right HERE: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5C3qWisl9N7Zq8 If you're looking for more in-depth Persona 5 graphic design talk, check out Vol. 3 right HERE: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6LIpGN5lqaco5I

[@tjiiik]

Warbot: hey man just saw this on my homepage, this is a really good video (except for how abrupt the end was, idk, maybe fade out the music?) can't wait to watch the next, I'm just all about Graphics Design more than Graphics themselves.

[@cliffturbo2146]

Design Doc oh and what do you think of Sly Cooper games and the design and UI.

[@oracle_8947]

Another game with slick UI and design was Gravity Rush 2. Check it out! :)

[@gozearbus1584]

I stopped the video the moment you said some of the best, design game, MGS 3 and the OG Splinter Cell have "confusing design", and going to advise against your channel for mediocrity. I'm a designer btw, it started well with recognizing P5 but then phew...what a way to ruin your video and discredit yourself that the statement mentioned above...

[@suspiciousflamingpyro]

"A UI designer needs to understand the rules and why they exist if they want to break the rules effectively" Damn. You to could apply that to just about anything

[@teaartist6455]

Yes, that quote itself is actually a slightly altered quote from Picasso "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” it pretty much comes up everywhere once you know about it.

[@dasaggropop1244]

everybody knows, nobody does it (like a pro). and if someone succeds with an unusual approach everybody is mindbaffled about that genius. nowadays everybody is a designer. even in macd they want you to be a self-starting, softskilled, hands-on entrepeneurial thinker. with a solid understanding of food design i guess. so yeah, its for everyone. lots more designers, than picassos. it's not only about skill and knowledge, but also the will to fight everyday, all those tedious little battles where people around you want it by the book. thats very exhausting, going by the rules is more comfy. so yeah, you COULD apply it to everything...or just have a quiet day, a nice evening and no discussions about your crazy user interface or rib mcnugget or what ever. most people like good and old, and they are perfectly fine with good and old. so you need to know when its essential to break the rules. sounds obvious, but most people i have met understand the rules as rules and thats that.

[@dasaggropop1244]

i am not sure with those quotes...i mean this is really something people say all the time. like with the "great artists steal, lesser artist imitate" or whatever. Gets attributed to everybody...I don't think picasso made really so much quotable witty bits of wise oneliners, but he a very good rulebreaking expert indeed.

[@teaartist6455]

Your point being what? That because a lot of people don't want to learn and still end up with okay results nobody should bother learning? Sorry, but at some point blind beginners luck runs out, with some things sooner, with others later, and you need to know why things are done the way they are to successfully bend or break with old conventions, on your own terms and in a controlled way. And no McDonalds and such might SAY they want designers and such, but they really want just about anyone that does what they say, if they need something designed, they hire an actual designer to do that for them, countrywide. What exactly are you revering to with "so yeah, you COULD apply it to everything...or just have a quiet day, a nice evening and no discussions about your crazy user interface or rib mcnugget or what ever"? People being Lazy? If so then I can attest to that. That you shouldn't learn because it's more comfy to spend the evening in front of your TV? No, not really.

[@shadowpod13]

A variation of that line is in Inner Ninja by Classified "I read the rule before I broke 'em." But yea, it's good advice. 1: If you know the rules you will know how far you can go before you cross the line, ex: legal issues. 2: You can put more value on certain things and break a most of the time rule for a certain gain, ex: Graphic design or chasing Singed in Leage of Legends (in general, DON'T chase Singed). Also by knowing the rules of a genre a writer can follow most of the rules of that genre but then break certain rules to make a story that is completely different from what you would expect, and at the same time totally awesome, ex: Madoka Magica as compared to the standard rules of the Magical Girl genre.

[@dquinny5]

I am a HUGE fan of persona 5's design in every sense, but boy that menu screen must be murder for a dyslexic person's eyes

[@AtOutoftheBlue]

Damian Quinn Actually, white on black is a pretty good combination for dyslexia

[@dominicpiovesan1715]

Its not just eye candy its eye crack

[@y4oihands]

Eh, fuck em

[@ekiouja]

Persona's menue design and UI actually put me off more than anything. Everything else is gorgeous, but i could not put up with those menues

[@esf1934]

Too bad if you can't handle it lol

[@supernebula101]

The UI for P5 is able to break the rules a little and be "busy' because it fits thematically. The whole game is in a busy metro setting that's still stylized to an extent, which is exactly what the UI is mirroring

[@alstroemeria]

Add to that the fact that the UI is incredibly good looking, with it's vibrant colors and varied but consistent font choice and use of shapes.

[@KnakuanaRka]

It fits with the whole theme of individuality, independence, rebellion, and standing up to authority.

[@propoppop9866]

TallestGreen42 though the styled text is arwrful I love the games up but that text is just hard to read

[@manavkumar9182]

For me it was great for the starting few hours but at times it just hurts my eyes when the colors pop out of nowhere. The world in P5 doesn't have much color so the UI(at least some colors) just hurt my eyes. Blue and green are fine but red just demolishes my retina.

[@propoppop9866]

Manav Kumar yah maybe they should of put a warning in there

[@Harkz0r]

Can I just say that I loved that you used Ryuji's Phantom Thieves logo (well the blackboard version) as the bad design example, that is all.

[@DesignDoc]

I have been waiting 7 months for someone to notice! Thank you!

[@FullmetalSonic260]

I noticed before I even clicked the vid haha!

[@denyscrowley]

Hey, I noticed it too! :P

[@cliffturbo2146]

I didn’t even notice the logo!

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

Poor Ryuji gets no respect. His design would've been fine if the Phantom Thieves actually were villains. Or insane. It does have the "madhouse" kind of aesthetic charm. And he IS the diagetic source of the design's red monochrome color palette.

[@LoudWaffle]

Like you mentioned when talking about Smash 4, "bad graphic design doesn't make a bad game." It's one of those components that doesn't often ruin the experience for those not looking out for it specifically. For example I'm sure most people playing Mario Party never even give thought to the UI design. But when graphic design is done right, like in all of your good examples, it really does elevate the game to a unique high. It's always an absolute treat when a game is creative and smart about its graphic design rather than relying on conventional designs or giving no thought to it at all. Great video by the way.

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

Like you mentioned when talking about Smash 4, "bad graphic design doesn't make a bad game." Well it also depends on the type of game a lot of turn based strategy games can absolutely fall apart if they have a bad UI because they usually have so much information to display and if done poorly it leads to the player wasting a lot of time digging through menus over and over again which can slow the game to a crawl

[@LuvzToLol21]

Despite the brutal thrashing Mario Party 8's UI gets, it's still my all-time favorite Mario Party title it terms of gameplay. I honestly thought the UI was pretty good, I never really cared about the clashing fonts.

[@vanelly5652]

Yeah smash four was probably my first or second game and I honestly thought nothing of it, I just kind of memorized it like he said, like some other flaws of the game I just found it when I saw the internets desire to burn these into flaws into the ground

[@mainzer45]

@@JoViljarHaugstulen Dwarf fortress is a strategy game with, at the very least, intimidating graphic design, and in some places poor choices for it, but it's still a beloved game of many due to the gameplay being worth pushing through how unfriendly the game looks.

[@HasHollow]

How dare you dump on ryujis drawing skills

[@carracer42jsbsisv95]

*No*

[@trickytreyperfected1482]

Like, FOR REAL?!

[@Vher_]

To put it broadly, graphic design _is my passion_ *frog.jpg*

[@nekokna]

mario party 8 XD

[@Lugmillord]

I never really cared about typographic design choices and really like MP8 but now that you mention it... wow, it really is all over the place. Now I can't unsee it D:

[@JojoDigitalArtist]

Once you see bad type you will never unsee it and it suckssssss

[@DesignDoc]

^ This. It's especially true with kerning.

[@Ene-Chan]

SAME

[@catharticreverie]

it's like if someone writes an essay misspells a word 5 different ways wrong, instead of misspelling it the same way the entire way through. It's like throwing potshots to try and get one instance of the word spelled correctly won't make it look clean, it'll just detract by being muddy and distracting.

[@swamdono]

You would have seen (and reacted to) it at some point, even if you weren't concious of it. Take fighting games for example. The menu's are usually set out with Arcade Mode at the top, other stuff in the middle, with Options at the bottom. If they were set out in the corners and sides of the screen with some fancy themeing, you'd find yourself having to look through everything before you found what you were looking for.

[@JojoDigitalArtist]

As a graphic designer who really wants to get into UI and graphic design for games, in general, this is so awesome and I am happy someone did it...Also can we forever talk about how good P5's UI is because goddamn its so beautiful!

[@llysender]

JojoDigitalArtist P5 has good style but not good design From the overly thick font to the constant left right swarping slows down visual understanding of the screen causing constant slow down to the player cognatively and generally to get through the menus fast enough needs sound memorization and not relying on the visual cures. An example would be using fade in menus instead of flyout for windows

[@DoofusLoopus]

@@llysender YES. Exactly my thoughts. Those window animations are all over the place.

[@meir2161]

Danganronpa v3 has a phenomenal ui. not the level of persona 5 but i thought i should mention it

[@DesignDoc]

Oh I'll get to that one very soon.

[@1980rlquinn]

About the font at 11:00: Some of that font work is not even English . I'm willing to bet none of the fonts used in this game are properly designed English fonts. They are, instead, romaji subsets of Japanese fonts. I suspected as much with the bad kerning and arbitrary x-heights, but the oddly angled apostrophe is a dead giveaway.

[@coffeedoodles7124]

I would've went to another graphic design video but the mentioning of persona 5 kept me here.

[@kokaioh9942]

Why?

[@LA_MALA_ORDINA]

+Kokaioh99 cause p5 is the greatest game of all time

[@louisfill849]

@@LA_MALA_ORDINA aye It is

[@ohnoknux4163]

Edward Green no

[@mikeluna2026]

I liked the video the instant you talked about Persona 5. lol

[@StephSinalco]

Same :D A truly AMAZING UI. The best I've ever seen.

[@ChriSaito]

I'm a simple man. I see Persona, I like the video.

[@ozmaozmaozmaozma]

Great video! You should comment on minimalistic-like UI like Shadow of the Colossus and other Team ICO games!

[@DesignDoc]

That's a good one too!

[@thegustbag]

Gotta say too about P5: mapping the menu options to single button presses is a HUGE part of why I was able to play two consecutive full playthroughs back to back. That decision alone makes combat feel much smoother, and gives a nice rythm to it. It's a beautiful, elegant solution and I have a hard time going back to more traditional oriented turn based jrpg menu battles now because of it.

[@scottchan9422]

Soooo....in other words, Persona 5 was dope?

[@hectic_heretic2924]

Yes

[@Stereo6400]

*_anyone who says otherwise will be publicly knocked on the head multiple times with a water bottle._*

[@skrigged9270]

@@Stereo6400 it sucked so much

[@aceman1858]

Thank you for doing this. As a designer by trade, I find it surprising how little the general public knows about design. Yet thinking back to before I went to school for it, I didn't know much at all either. Design affects us all, everyday, all the time. It could be something as obvious as an advertisement on the highway, or something as minute as choosing a pen because one looks better than the other. I find it hard to explain to people how strong UI can make me have a little sploosh in my pants, because most people don't care about the difference between typefaces or general hierarchy, of proper user flows or page balance. Good design is generally invisible, because it just works. People begin to notice how design affects them when something becomes obtuse to the point of confusion or inability to use, and that's okay too, because even if it's an unconscious realization, those users will catalog why it didn't work, and how it could be better. Ever filled out a government form that made zero sense? That's a great example. My point is, videos like this are fantastic because they help introduce people to the concepts of design and visual communication. Hope I didn't come across as some douche who thinks he knows more than everyone, I just think design is awesome!

[@Tapahtumahorisontti]

I'm an amateur game developer and I want to make my interface and overall graphic design as intuitive, clear and easy as possible and I have to say that this was a great and a helpful video. However, as for the actual _rules of graphic design_, I have yet to meet an article or a video that would clearly outline them, leaving me to parse those rules through different sources. For instance, in this video you mentioned that good user interfaces follow some kind of grid layout, which is something I have not thought of (at least not consciously) so I've added that to my list of good tips and rules-of-thumb that I follow. There have been some other gems that I have gained by sifting through tons of videos and texts that usually don't mention anything concrete, but instead churn out these vague general rules such as "keeping the interface as unintrusive as possible" with little to no examples and basic principles on HOW this is achieved. Do you have some resources on the concrete things things and rules that graphic designers should follow in making user interfaces?

[@DesignDoc]

For Graphic Design resources, a couple books that I'd recommend checking out would be "Thinking with Type" by Ellen Lupton and "Making and Breaking the Grid" by Timothy Samara. Hope that helps!

[@Tapahtumahorisontti]

Alright, thanks! :)

[@SpoikeTube]

There is a whole field on this called "User Experience" or UX for short, rather than being part of Graphic Design which is probably why you didn't find much on just searching for "graphic design". There is a lot of literature on this, most seminally "The Design of Everyday Things" by Donald Norman. While it is not specifically about video games, it does introduce the concept of "Affordance" and gives plenty of examples on what good and bad affordance is (like this video is doing). Another book about UX that I can recommend is "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve Krug, which is mostly about Web Usability but knowledge you gain from this book is transferrable to other fields (especially for anything related to user interface design). Good design overall is all about making conscious decisions on whatever artifacts you are designing and iterating (i.e. make it, test it, remake it, test that, remake that again, repeat until you're satisfied) is pretty much the way you do it.

[@candygonemad]

I remember reading this book last year: Go: A Kidd's Guide to Graphic Design

[@shadowpod13]

Have you checked out "Extra Credits" channel? They have a ton of great vids on various items that would be great for someone getting into developing a game. One of their vids is on affordance as well, but they cover a bunch of other topics. I can't recommend them enough.

[@arthurstickel]

I loved the video, and the subject matter is really interesting, but I wish you hadn't cheesed the final example like that. It'd be interesting to see other examples of bad design. Going back to Mario Party after you had already dedicated a whole segment for it, and in great detail, felt unnecessary and rushed. Other than that, I still found it very interesting and informative.

[@-._____-]

stickeltickle nah....mario party 8's ui is straight up trash

[@KnakuanaRka]

Yeah, he so could have put that in one section.

[@popular_dollars]

Smash 64 can have as much as 12 fonts on screen at once.

[@Talz622]

Are you making a joke about the “Character Biography” section? I personally like it, but the text talking about the characters is small and is HELL to read on small CRTs and some HDTVs that have scanlines.

[@wileecoyotegenius5955]

One of my favorite aspects of graphic design when the UI feels like an actual part of the world. One of my favorite examples of this is in Super Mario Odyssey, where the level maps are presented as travel brochures with information about the Kingdom on the side. Donkey Kong Country also does this by representing health as an additional character rather than a meter. When a UI feels separate from the game world, it can really hurt immersion, something I felt pretty badly while playing The Witcher 3, which has a pretty obtrusive and video game-y interface.

[@iritras]

I really loved the UI of Nier: Automata. The effects when your character was visually damaged, the overall look and the map design are just great.

[@artful_alicat]

Ok. But we can all agree that Mario Party 8 was the last good one gameplay wise. Who’s idea was it to make everyone in a car and collaborating?

[@christianmarcotte4068]

TheWerewolfofsalem they changed developers

[@artful_alicat]

I know. *scowls at Nintendo*

[@JohnPaul-ec5ug]

You don't collaborate in 9 and 10, it's still competitive. It's a pretty common misconception about those two games.

[@artful_alicat]

You don't collaborate in the mini games and getting the star-things, and yeah, you try to hinder the other players. But in terms of moving around the board and the mini events that can happen, it's pretty collaborative.

[@LinVGMPlaylists]

It's not collaborative when you use a special dice just to get the next player in a bad spot, or use one to get yourself to snag all the good loot. :^)

[@Pidgeonsofwar]

" Why is smash tour... anywhere? " my thoughts exactly!

[@Rorshacked]

pidgeons of war I wanted to like smash tour so bad. Even made friends play it more than once. Eff me, right?

[@ludvik926]

all in all: nintendo should hire some new designers

[@mx4159]

All they need is to make the UI in their games more clean

[@SweenerJoey]

He only showed 2 Nintendo games? That's hardly an effective survey of their design overall. Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, the Switch UI in general, and a lot of their recent graphic design work is exceptional. I'd argue, even, that Nintendo does it the best the most often out of the big three. But his example highlight the pitfall of party games in particular; to appeal to everyone, the design of UI and others often are sacrificed. I'd even say that Warbot is a bit too harsh on the Sm4sh UI, though what he said about the hierarchy is accurate. It's still very well designed and sleek, just organized in an amateur way; that's not on the graphic designer but on the UX/UI designer.

[@thestripedmenace]

Joey Sweener Yeah, Sakurai's wife (the designer behind the Brawl and Sm4sh UI and others) has a really... unique... design style; it's a love it or hate it thing, really!

[@j2dragon109]

Well, most of the time people like her menus. She just didn't do as well in Smash 4.

[@zaneseibert]

Joey Sweener Breath of the Wild's UI was horrid. It was super clunky and aside from Link reacting to things in the menu, pretty bland. Xenonlade X' s was so bad I'd go so far as to say it's the worst part of the game.

[@tjiiik]

I would say the design for that Mario Party has a ridiculous amount of early 2000's websites charm but that's just my aesthetic.

[@kjeld1]

Great video ! The fact Trails in the Sky is showcased in the bad UI example shouldn't prevent people to try these awesome Falcom games.

[@DesignDoc]

As I said, bad UI =/= bad game.

[@AnemoneMeer]

I actually struggle to consider Trails in the Sky's UI bad. It's laid out well and generally very quick and easy to navigate. It's just incredibly, incredibly boring. There are a few good bits, like the Bracer Notebook layout, but they're very far between and lesser versions of better UI elements in other games. It functions perfectly fine and takes no real time to learn (You can figure out the whole quartz system just from visuals alone), but it's incredibly bland.

[@igor-ld8qm]

persona music at the end got me like chillax, brew some coffee, cook some curry and why not read a book while we're at it.

[@JustJunuh]

Wouldn't mind a part 2 actually. Interesting stuff. I'd love to see more examples

[@Nintendan95]

I saw Smash pop up and was quite curious because I was thinking the ingame visuals and colours and fine. But I totally forgot about the menus on that game and I totally agree with everything you said. Another thing I'd like to tag onto SSB4's menus is all the funky shapes that aren't arranged well. Sure it look cool but sometimes its awkward to navigate to the specific box you want. As you said, Brawl was fine because in that game, while the boxes were of different sizes, they were still arranged in a sort of grid so it was very readable. You didn't have to worry about little boxes hiding between gaps with weird shapes. A UI doesn't need to strictly be organized like this, but with 4's its like they just throw all these different shapes and sizes at you and it makes it hard to read, understand and navigate when you first boot it up.

[@dane9598]

Wow, this is really well made. great job!

[@rseiver96]

I disagree about the remark that stealth games peak with all of the mechanics revealed to the player. I think the lack of awareness of whether the player is discovered could be used as a great mechanic if it's cleverly and deliberately implemented.

[@floatingdoor]

I could hug you right now. This series is awesome. It would be really cool if you did a video talking about how devs broke the rules and why.

[@xinshy1370]

Great video, man! The narrative and message were so immersive that I had a lot of fun just watching and understanding your points thematically. Biggest thanks to how you emphasized that typography and spacing MATTER in every presentation, no matter the medium. I'm not sure if these games have been brought up yet for their good style and/or design but I definitely recommend: 1) Flow: Urban Dance Uprising - Menu-wise, is one of the most distinctive visual styles I've seen for a PS2 rhythm game era. The UI design translated the theme of the game effortlessly. The typography oozed hip hop brands, the grunge boxes imitated city signs and the transitions, if not somewhat laggy, still preserved the rebel vibe of urban dancing. It was strong, cohesive and stylistic yet still simple - which made way for you to focus on the dance gameplay. (Of course the gameplay is a different subject matter, haha) 2) Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch - Simply put, the Wizard's Companion. I'd love to go in detail with this game's feature but that could take days! It's basically an interactive book that comes built into the game to act like a manual for the player. All the info you'll generally need as Oliver (MC) is there, except the experience is like reading a book. Bonus points to LEVEL5 (the studio who made the game) for reproducing the manual into an ACTUAL book that you can have. So much creativity done by the team. I spent hours flipping through the book in-game and immersing myself into the content and art of it all. They could've easily just made this a simple feature of the game but they went all out just so you, as a player, can experience being a magician just like the MC. PS. Thank you for showing me Brutal Legend. You've now converted me into a fan of the UI and the designer himself.

[@DesignDoc]

I'm super glad to here it! I didn't love Ni No Kuni itself so I totally forgot about the Wizard's Companion. I do vaguely remember it being a pretty excellent presentation of a compendium/datalog. Also thank you for the suggestions! We are currently working on a GDBD Volume 3 and most of the candidates have already been chosen but I'll try to look into those two for when I start researching for a possible Volume 4.

[@xinshy1370]

Thank you for the response and you're welcome on the suggestions! To be honest, I didn't expect a reply at all but it made my day a bit better. For Ni No Kuni (just to add), much of the charm of the Wizard's Companion lies with extending the lore of the game through the book. All those curious nitbits you had in your head or would encounter via Errands (esp post-game) about stories before Oliver's time and the fallen kingdoms are heavily supplemented there. Being presented in an oldbook fashion with linoleum block printing artwork even adds more to the charm. In my terms, it made my gaming worthwhile.

[@violet_broregarde]

One thing you might not have realized is that Sm4sh's menus are easy to navigate in an unfamiliar language. Sometimes a Japanese player brings their Wii U to a tournament and the distinctive buttons make it easy to set my controls and find Vs mode.

[@dustymcwari4468]

Problem is finding the rest of the game without having memorized the layout like the final test of an exam because of how poorly organized it is

[@noyoudidnot3513]

You made me want to play Persona 5 again when the outro rolled in. The Persona series' soundtrack never fails to make me nostalgic every time, the game is just amazing.

[@PragmaticAntithesis]

I personally quite liked Mario Party 8's look. The chaotic look just screams "Welcome to Mario Party!"

[@azraelle6232]

I love that last line, about learning the rules in order to break them effectively. I tell this to people all the time!

[@devonmarr9872]

How did I just find these videos? I love this topic. It's what holds back so many gorgeous games.

[@Amaleigh2024]

I'm going for a major in Graphic Design and in class, it was a little hard to understand what my professor said when applying it to the career field. Now after watching this, it got easier to understand heads up displays, UI, typography, ect...

[@GenerallyChaotic6839]

I’m going to use your videos to help me write a Research Paper on game UI and Graphic Design, thank you Design Doc for all the videos I can use as references!!

[@BioMatic2]

loved the intro to the video. as someone who doesnt have knowledge of graphic desing, persona 5 was the first time during a game that a took a minute to think "wow this menus are really REALLY good"when i noticed that joker changed positions on every menu option.

[@charizardoreo]

Another one of these would be great

[@DavidRussell323]

I'm a big fan of how you even made the words "success" and "failure" at 4:35 represent their respective attributes, with "failure" having super wonky spacing hahahaha

[@gutsFunnyman]

As someone with eye problems, the black and white on red in the p5 menus made it easier for me to read, so that's a plus.

[@Ryeaugla]

10:27 Actually, it's only four type faces. The black bar marquee and the mode description text are the same font. Look closely at the Rs and you'll see they're the same. The black outline just isn't as visible against the marquee at the top, giving it the illusion of being a different font, but it's still the same one. That said, that's still one too many and I don't disagree with your points, it's just that was a slight bit of misinformation.

[@DesignDoc]

Good eye but that is part of why I say "different fonts and type treatments." I consider a change in color, size, style outline, etc to be a different type treatment.

[@marche800]

The world ends with you have some pretty incredible graphic design for menu's and the map system, Blending the two into the distinct artstyle without degrading there practicality. It's definitely one i would have included in the good design section.

[@Liggliluff]

(10:00) Something that always had annoyed me, but I've not pointed it out. That text that says "Very Hard" does not have an outline. Instead it's the same text printed in white just shifted left, right, up and down. That's why you get those missing corners. The other text doesn't have this issue, so why that one?

[@AvariceOverlord]

Finally, a video about two of my favourite hobbies and passions: Graphic Design IN Video Games.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

I disagree with your thoughts on Stealth games. If every information is presented to player, it removes almost all of the tension (best example, Thief 1/2). Think, an obstacle course, you never know what comes next. What Mark of the Ninja is, is a puzzle game wrapped in the cloak of Stealth. Yes, you have to stay in hiding, but the real game is avoiding/neutralizing threats.

[@gilbertopanquian1543]

I agree with you, for stealth game, you don't need to have every information, is funnier if you only have the objective and some hints, but the point of that is to clear your path throught your goal without an indicator of what to do every other moment.

[@TheANimal495]

This only results in trial and error gameplay as he said though. Like, it's impossible in say...Thief or many other stealth games to know the what the enemy's capable of until you goofed up. There's no element of skill here, just inherent lack of player knowledge. Also I don't see how a game like Thief isn't puzzle-like, either. Sure you can go on after you get caught, but you can do that in Mark as well.

[@thealgerian3285]

Sounds like pretty bad game design to me. The more my failure/success is down to sheer luck or bad design, the faster a game's gonna get uninstalled.

[@commentreviews430]

Hi, the human brain loves to predict. It is suitable for stealth games to appeal to that desire. In the case of a stealth game, If it's too predictable, then it's too easy. Not predictable enough, then it's too difficult. This is a difficulty issue, and the solution specifically in the case of stealth games, is to allow players to have plans that are fun to execute, and can fail for a fair reason. In relation to UI, it's important for the player to be immersed, and since they're not actually in the game, their senses are limited and must be compensated in other ways.

[@propoppop9866]

The thing is mark is a 2d game by design it’s all information

[@pacificcatto]

Nutshell: Nintendo did some bad design choices

[@missingtheforestforthetrees]

I love the way that the Mario party 8 menu makes me feel, as if the busy style goes along with the busy carnival theme. But of course, it could be nostalgia glasses.

[@Zadamanim]

Understanding the rules and breaking them effectively is a good argument for learning music theory as well. For example, when writing music, you should use notes from a single key, unless you have a reason to break that rule.

[@Sackboy612]

Just stumbled on this channel and oh my lord this is a goldmine, time to binge watch all of your videos!

[@corwinschuerch6691]

I played Mario Party 8 for about five years, quite consistently. I also agree completely. Heck, even the main menu's buttons don't actually match the buildings in the background (seen at 14:00). Took me years to navigate the menus, let alone remember them.

[@UnexpectedGamer7]

As someone who's interested in studying graphic design, this was a very interesting video! You chose great examples to make your points, and your analyses were very clear and easy to follow.

[@twi57ed]

I think you've became one of my favorite channels in two videos..

[@thefroyukenfiles3641]

Just stumbled on your channel. Noticed it was about graphic design in games and P5 was mentioned. Subscription earned.

[@floskywalker6220]

At first I was mad cause you threw shade on mass effect, and that’s my favorite game series, but then I realized “Yeah I could barely navigate mass effect one, ESPECIALLY the equipment screen”

[@toastybird]

I actually find the idea of p5’s menus breaking the rules to be hilarious. the ui of the game is just as rebellious as it’s contents.

[@Polybius11]

You have to take a look at Pandora's Tower for the wii, it has one of the all time best menu systems I have ever experienced. It's not flashy by any means but it has an amazing layout, small features that make menu navigation fast and easy, and a way of making really complex systems easy to understand by conveying it's information in a simple manner. It goes out of it's way to do not just some, but all of the little things at once that most games are too lazy to do.

[@theoneandonlygree1203]

I feel like the Arkham games also do stealth well, by laying things out in detective mode, and highlighting key mechanics of the room or area that you need to tackle. Sometimes Batman’s vocal cues help also, as something like, say if you pull out the batarang and attempt to throw it at a hostage taker, in an earlier level, he would remark, “if I do that, he’ll kill the hostage”, letting players know that in the future, that tactic is not recommended. It also helps when the NPCs call out, “There he is, The Bat!!” Letting players know that they’ve been spotted, giving them the chance to make a move before the enemies open fire. There’s so many ways to get through the room, and the game doesn’t baby you, guiding you on what to do, and the player is purposely forced to get creative, giving it even more credibility as a Dark Knight game. The stealth levels made me feel really good when I could scare my enemies shitless and let them know that I have complete control over the environment, without being a god.

[@solitonmedic]

I always found the newest Spelunker games' UI to be perfect, since they're simplistic and easy to look at.

[@chantingzhang]

This is awesome. Can you make a video that disects what exactly makes the UI of Persona 5 feel so great? It seems like one of the textbook cases that carefully arranged chaos with some rules lying under it can feel even better than things made by the book

[@XaneMyers]

13:03 This was funny, going back to Mario Party 8...now that you pointed it out, that game's UI is weird...it's like Nintendo was having fun with their image editing program's text generation or something.

[@solitonmedic]

That's Hudson, not Nintendo.

[@takashimatta]

I'm glad i stumbled upon this channel and this type of content. Here's hoping for a great subscription count in the future.

[@deus_ex_machina_]

6:23 Smash is so competitive, even the menus have a high skill ceiling.

[@FuraFaolox]

That final quote in the video is exactly what I say about music theory.

[@IlSharmouta]

That last bit applies to everything. One example off the top of my head is drawing without proper proportions. which people will try to say they do for "style" but it's clear whether or not you know the rules and how to break them.

[@JimGiant]

Learned a lot. I really hate doing UI design but it's really important.

[@cecillewolters1995]

This channel and series is golden, thank you for making this amazing content! Subbed as soon as I've finished the first video, this is the second ;)

[@aliceisahuman]

This was super entering, and also really interesting! Thanks for making it

[@tempest_dawn]

Rock Band has always stood out as having tastefully stylized menus to me. Very navigable, especially with the simple up/down limited controls of the guitar controller.

[@ripopol]

ok, so you praise P5 (i agree), but i'd have prefered if you went into the details in that case AS WELL as the other cases.

[@DMMinthehouse]

It's truly the best designed game I've ever seen. Not just aesthetically but also functionally. I wish the artbook showed more of the design aspects of the game not just sketches of the characters. I wanted to see the menu screens and composition of everything. Great video!

[@NaitomeIya]

"You'll never see it COOOMMIIIIIIINNNGGGG!!!!" (Damn that song is sure to make me lose in Don't Sing Along challenge) Oh the Dead SpaceUI looks simple yet cool. I guess that means the NieR: Automata UI is also Diegetic. Although the Persona 5 UI baffled me at first because it was so damn SSStylish compared to ANY OTHER GAME I've seen to the point that I actually compared its UI to graffiti, I was still able to find what I need somehow...

[@Lepa2793]

Heck, I learned stuff I never learned in any of my game dev courses at Uni. Freaking awesome, gonna try and put this knowledge to good use!

[@DesignDoc]

That's great to hear! Go read up on some books on graphic design. Ellen Lupton's "Thinking with Type" would be a decent place to start for Typography.

[@givmi_more_w9251]

Naw, tbh, I like Ryuji's calling card (referring to the thumbnail) very much, it's fitting and it's so ... Ryuji. :) BUt yeah. I liked you the moment when you "For the last month, Persona 5 pretty much consumed my life". Same dude, same.

[@antonydrossos5719]

8:00 I've never played this. Hell, this is my first time hearing of it. But, DAMN, this is the most clever game menu I've ever seen! This is all really interesting for me, because I studied Graphic Design back in High School, because I wasn't learning Video Game Design, I was learning how to design for Vertical Camera's and 2-Color Printing Presses...(Yeah, son, I'm olde!)

[@thesleepybardalwayswaiting5260]

I think another thing to take into consideration is the influence of culture on graphic design the way fonts look in English from Mario party 8 can be jarring but maybe it had a cool aesthetic with Japanese characters. and perhaps due to budget constraints they couldn't change the styles or maybe the thought it wasn't as important as the overall gameplay.

[@blue-hollyhock]

I don’t know why but this video reminds me how much GMTK videos are well organized and on point.

[@clouds5]

That's why the first Metal Gear Solid (second one too) is the best stealth game for me in terms of stealth gameplay. You always know exactly when the enemies are going to see you or not. And if they see you there is a clear countdown showing you how long until you're in stealth mode again. It maybe a bit unrealistic but it's fun to play, and that is more important in gaming.

[@TheShayaChannel]

Really well done video. Great critiquing across the board and definition of good design. I love the final bit about the requirement to effectively break rules. I Really wish I had the right console to play Persona 5. 😅 Couldn't help but notice that the two times Trails in the Sky was onscreen you were talking about bad UI, mainly because I get super excited anytime I find another KZbinr who is even aware of the games' existence. 😁😁 Anyway I'm just sharing my experience: I found the font choices, design, UI setups, sound effects and such really fitting for the kinds of vibes given during gameplay of any Trails game, particularly their PC versions (Fonts are nicer than on PSP). What would your critique of their graphic designs be? I'm curious. 😃

[@Horos101]

Indeed, I was also befuddled by his implication that the Trails in the Sky UI was bad. It's a JRPG take on the Baldur's Gate UI, and efficiently conveys the turn order, each character's resources, and your combat options. Nothing more, nothing less.

[@Clairvoyant81]

Awesome and very interesting video for a non-designer like me looking into this topic for basically the first time. But: You should probably call this "The Best & Worst of UI Design in Games". Also, it would have been great if you went into a bit more detail what "rules" the bad designs break and the good designs follow. That way, I might have learned a bit about the rules while seeing examples. From what I gathered in this video, the "rules of good UI design" basically should be common sense: 1. Use well-defined button and text styles for each purpose (sub-menus, game start, option toggles etc). 2. Have an intuitive menu hierarchy and order. 3. Make it quick. (seems to be broken by Brütal Legend a bit) 4. Make it readable. (seems to be broken by Persona 5 a bit)

[@thisisthecure]

Great analogy about bridges. Love your work! Thanks!

[@Arcanesquish]

Love your enthusiasm man! Great vid too

[@Belias989]

It's nice to see someone who sees this stuff and understands it. I myself am a graphic designer and gamer, so it's really important thing to me. Sometimes it's even about "make it or break it" - for example I played demo for Smash Brothers on 3DS and the UI was so bad and hard to understand for a newcomer to the series like me, that I even didn't understand the gameplay. And the look was repulsive, I hate when the design doesn't match the feel and look of the game, sometimes it's better to make something bland and simplistic than throw up with fonts and differrent elements all the way. Persona 5 is a very good example of doing an UI good, because it's all about the WHOLE experience, the UI and gameplay blend into one product, even if the menus are sometimes a little too flashy and cluttered, they still are readable. A few years ago as I heard from game designers the whole UI design was the biggest problem, because there wasn't any good ways to implement it to the game properly and the ways that existed were imperfect to say the least. Great example are old Final Fantasies - I love the series and old installments, but the menus were hard to look at and they weren't a good match for the games, but it's understandable because they didn't have much choice in that regard and UI and UX as we understand it today was non-existent. Final Fantasy XV UI is great example about what I said about plain menus - it's not very vicually pleasing, but it is clean, simple and doesn't bother when you play the game. Well, anyway good job, keep it up I definitelly will come back for more :)

[@arlosteiner8382]

P5 UI is simply just cool and it wasn't mentioned but Skies of Arcadia had some incredible design too

[@thenim8999]

I really like the design of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Eyes of Heaven. I'm not an expert but all the design choices are so good and stylish!

[@alexrobles9708]

But the game not so much

[@hybridplays1088]

Just discovered this channel, awesome video!

[@Simtar123]

For some reason i dont remember subscribing, but i am very happy i did!!! =D Superb video man! =) Spot on! =D

[@RaoulWB]

You know what's thing I love the most about the sound rapresentation in Mask of the Ninja? It's basically just visualizing what the code does under the hood in a slightly fancier way. What do you think about _Guacamelee!_ with its spiky colorful design PS: that _bad design_ aesthetic is pure art, especially those half done rows of text

[@crafteariee]

Not sure if people have mentioned other good examples of graphic design in games I'd vouch for The World Ends With You for its seamless integration with the art direction they were going for in both gameplay and visual presentation. It works well.

[@boogumm]

I personally love Mario Party 8 because its really just my childhood but it does make sense why people see the UI really bad still kinda opened my eyes and what not! Thanks!

[@adisoncardoso]

i never thought i would love to pause a game in my life but the protagonist SLAPPING the menu in my face is absolutely my weirdest kink. the SOUND of pausing is amazing. that is saying something about game design.

[@nitrodyne676]

I swear one day you’ll walk into your friend’s place, he’ll be playing Mario party 8 and you’ll just fall onto your knees yelling *“OH GOD MY EYES”* great video though

[@matthewjones6786]

I never knew about Brutal Legend, that menu just OOZES charm!

[@genericname8749]

I agree that the MP8 UI is all over, but I think that was the point. The one thing tha MC ballyhoo always tells you when you load a save file is, "So go run wild! Have fun!" Taking the "run wild" part into consideration, it kinda makes sense that it's all jumbled. It's not trying to be symmetrical or neat or whatever, it's replicating a giant party where you just kinda go with whatever happens.

[@adityalokapratama8495]

Ex-graphic designer here. I totally agree on what you said, the typography on those mario games are metaphorically stabbing my eyes. You should check this out: SEGA's mid 2000's game are particularly horrendous; Yakuza 1 and 2, Virtua Fighter 4, Shinobi, Nightshade.