Goodbye Knobster!! What??

[@markfletcher4579]

I thought you might like to see the button assignments I use for both MSFS and X-Plane. I tried to add these to the description above but it made the description too long so I am including this table here. Hope this helps you if you decide to build your own Knob Array Panel. Thanks and let me know if you have any questions or want to see the scripts I used where adequate commands were not available. BUTTON ASSIGNMENTS Note: These assignments are for G1000 equiped aircraft. The MSFS assignments are flight simulator events used by FSUIPC, Axis And Oh's and other similar applications rather than the default CONTROLS OPTIONS. Also, there were not adequate commands for some of these and I had to resort to scipts. I indicated these with "[Script Code]". I'm happy to share that code upon request. BUTTON MSFS X-PLANE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PFD FMS Outer LT H:AS1000_PFD_FMS_Lower_DEC G1000 pilot FMS outer ring tune up PFD FMS Outer RT H:AS1000_PFD_FMS_Lower_INC G1000 pilot FMS outer ring tune down PFD FMS Inner LT H:AS1000_PFD_FMS_Upper_DEC G1000 pilot FMS inner ring tune up PFD FMS Inner RT H:AS1000_PFD_FMS_Upper_INC G1000 pilot FMS inner ring tune down PFD FMS PUSH H:AS1000_PFD_FMS_Upper_PUSH G1000 pilot FMS cursor PFD ENT H:AS1000_PFD_ENT_Push G1000 pilot ENT PFD CLR H:AS1000_PFD_CLR G1000 pilot CLR MFD FMS Outer LT H:AS1000_MFD_FMS_Lower_DEC G1000 MFD FMS outer ring tune down MFD FMS Outer RT H:AS1000_MFD_FMS_Lower_INC G1000 MFD FMS outer ring tune up MFD FMS Inner LT H:AS1000_MFD_FMS_Upper_DEC G1000 MFD FMS inner ring tune down MFD FMS Inner RT H:AS1000_MFD_FMS_Upper_INC G1000 MFD FMS inner ring tune up MFD FMS PUSH H:AS1000_MFD_FMS_Upper_PUSH G1000 MFD FMS cursor MFD ENT H:AS1000_MFD_ENT_PUSH G1000 MFD ENT MFD CLR H:AS1000_MFD_CLR G1000 MFD CLR RANGE Outer LT H:AS1000_PFD_RANGE_DEC G1000 pilot range up RANGE Outer RT H:AS1000_PFD_RANGE_INC G1000 pilot range down RANGE Inner LT H:AS1000_MFD_RANGE_DEC G1000 MFD range up RANGE Inner RT H:AS1000_MFD_RANGE_INC G1000 MFD rangedown PAN LT H:AS1000_MFD_JOYSTICK_LEFT G1000 MFD pan left PAN RT H:AS1000_MFD_JOYSTICK_RIGHT G1000 MFD pan right PAN UP H:AS1000_MFD_JOYSTICK_UP G1000 MFD pan up PAN DN H:AS1000_MFD_JOYSTICK_DOWN G1000 MFD pan down PAN PUSH H:AS1000_MFD_JOYSTICK_PUSH G1000 MFD push pan BARO/CRS Outer LT H:AS1000_PFD_BARO_DEC Baro selection down a bit BARO/CRS Outer RT H:AS1000_PFD_BARO_INC Baro selection up a bit BARO/CRS Inner LT VOR1_OBI_DEC [Script Code] BARO/CRS Inner RT VOR1_OBI_INC [Script Code] BARO/CRS Outer PUSH BAROMETRIC_STD_PRESSURE Baro pressure selection 2992 IAS/VS Outer LT AP_SPD_VAR_DEC Autopilot airspeed down IAS/VS Outer RT AP_SPD_VAR_INC Autopilot airspeed up IAS/VS Inner LT AP_VS_VAR_DEC [Script Code] IAS/VS Inner RT AP_VS_VAR_INC [Script Code] ALT Outer LT [Script Code] G1000 pilot altitude outer ring down ALT Outer RT [Script Code] G1000 pilot altitude outer ring up ALT Inner LT [Script Code] G1000 pilot altitude inner ring down ALT Inner RT [Script Code] G1000 pilot altitude inner ring up BARO/HDG Outer LT H:AS1000_MFD_BARO_DEC Baro selection down a bit BARO/HDG Outer RT H:AS1000_MFD_BARO_INC Baro selection up a bit BARO/HDG Inner LT [Script Code] [Script Code] BARO/HDG Inner RT [Script Code] [Script Code] BARO/HDG PUSH [Script Code] Autopilot heading sync

[@FlyingAce63]

Great video! Is this compatible with SPAD.next? Could SPAD be used to bind the knobs? Thanks

[@markfletcher4579]

@@FlyingAce63 Sorry, don't know anything about spad

[@FlyingAce63]

@@markfletcher4579 hmmm, thanks anyway for the reply. I'll ask the people at SPAD if they think it would be compatible. Just as an FYI, you really should look into SPAD, it's a lot better than FSUIPC. You can do a lot more with it. Cheers.

[@FlyingAce63]

Wow! It didn't take long at all to get a reply from the developers of SPAD. Here's what they said in case anyone is interested: "It seems like it is using a LeoBodnar board. So yes, you can use it with spad as a generic joystick device". I'm hoping it is a LeoBodnar board being used in your encoder array. Please advise.

[@markfletcher4579]

@FlyingAce63 watch the video and you'll get your answer

[@stricklandgarageaviation2864]

I'm envious of your skill and knowledge when it comes to connecting and making things work. I'm just a pilot and not an electrical engineer. I really like my Honeycomb A and B and I also have the knobster. There might be a market for someone to travel to guys that have sim setups to upgrade or install some of these ideas.

[@markfletcher4579]

Thank you for the kind words strickland

[@theseventhplane7]

did you really said ," i'm just a pilot " im jealous 🤣

[@stricklandgarageaviation2864]

@@theseventhplane7 One of the main reasons I have a home flight sim is that Uncle Sam said I had to retire from the airlines because of my age. I love flying and home flight sims keeps me somewhat into flying. The more I can make my sim more realistic, the better. I also like to show people what it is like to fly or at least how the controls work.

[@theseventhplane7]

@@stricklandgarageaviation2864 yes , the thing pilots love the most , flying and saying they are pilots XD

[@stricklandgarageaviation2864]

@@theseventhplane7 In my aviation career I have flown with guys that don't enjoy flying but love the pay. I enjoyed the flying and really miss the environment. I don't understand what you mean by "saying they are pilots." Sure pilots should be proud of what they have accomplished but you don't need to brag about it.

[@TheOneTrueSpLiT]

I've been thinking about making my own Trim Wheel and PFD/MFD Rotary Encoders and came across this video. I have no skills, knowledge, parts or tools and have only soldered the Leo Bodnar BU0836A to replace the axes of my Saitek Yoke but you have inspired me to give it a go, I'm even researching and contemplating getting a £200 3D Printer now the seed is truly sown in my head 😊

[@rbarlow]

Nice project Mark. Of course dedicated knobs will always be better than a Single multipurpose knob like Knobster. But while KnobXP and KnobFS software allow multipurpose use of Knobster, that was an afterthought mostly for use in VR where a group of knobs cannot be seen. Knobster was really intended for use with Air Manager instrument panels on Touch screens where it is very intuitive.Touch to select and then use the knob. Also it is small and only needs a single encoder. Much easier than KnobFS/XP. Nice job creating a very useful Knobster substitute . For me building diy is half the fun!

[@markfletcher4579]

The knobster has been great and I don't regret how I've used it. Thanks for checking in Russ.

[@yair1956]

The combination of the Duel Incoder along with 23" Touchscreen monitor, & air manager, to control the G1000, is the reason I purchased the Knobster, for the rest I got all covered with my DIY switch panels

[@bruceyboy7349]

I bought the knobster 4 or 5 years ago and bought a touch screen based on one of your videos, Russ. Using it with Air Manager EFIS and MCP components, I've been flying the Zibo mod successfully since then. More recently I had to re-write some of the component code (maybe it was due to XP 12 - the code is actually a lot simpler) and it all works perfectly! I don't feel like I really need anything else.

[@Skinny-me]

Love your videos Mark! I View every one of them, and you helped me a lot! Hoping for more! :) take Care :)

[@markfletcher4579]

Thank you Skinny. It's a lot of work and I appreciate your response. Glad you find it useful.

[@ianwilliams7740]

Great video Mark. Handy setup.

[@doktorjansson]

Nicw job! Inspiring.

[@pgreenx]

3:04 those three things are PTAC (the give your current position, a heading direction turn, altitude direction and clearance for an approach). should always be the same order. I'm still getting used to out and it's a lot. I dont love the kniobster either but best thing until I get physical panels I still write it down first until I get better

[@chrisybradshaw8594]

wow ,that would be so awesome if you had plans for this

[@fwiw3768]

this is great, but, reflecting the question of Michael Paitchell below, might you be able to post a schematic showing how the Bodnar encoders are connected to the BU0836X board?

[@ENergyJimP]

I did the same kind of thing with knobs but using the Behringer X-Touch Mini. The draw back is that those knobs are not duel encoders.

[@sky173]

Wow, great information. I think this might be exactly what I've been looking for. I need a reason to put my little machine shop to work. I wonder if I could use these little boards from leobodnar in MSFS. I'd love to know if I could assign knobs/buttons like you did in Xplane. Thanks for sharing.

[@markfletcher4579]

Hi Sky. Yes, this works with MSFS. You'll need an interface like FSUPIC or AxisAndOh's to provide you all the necessary button presses though as MSFS doesn't expose many of the G1000 functions.

[@michaelpaitchell3476]

Do you have a schematic showing how the Bodnar encoders are connected to the BU0836X board? I would love to build a multi encoder knob setup just like you did to control the instruments in MSFS 2020! What you did looks awesome! I would like to use this with MSFS 2020 that I have now and 2024 when it comes out!!

[@AllenPortman]

I have both Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo controllers and love them, but haven't been happy at all with trying to get the Bravo Throttle rotary and push-button array to work properly with XP 11 and XP12. Actually it works better with XP11 than it does with XP 12. I would love to have the double ringed push knob setup like you built! Trust me I know all about the confusion when trying to multi-task twisting knobs with a mouse it is not fun!

[@markfletcher4579]

I hear you. I spent about three full days re-coding that AFC_Bridge. It was not ready for prime time for sure. I posted about what I learned at the X-Plane forum if you want to take a look, might help you: forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/291238-honeycomb-bravo-demystified

[@bleonardyou]

I wonder if you could make multiple vertical panels that replicate the controls on a G1000 and put one on either side of an Air Manager display for the MFD and PFD, then enlarge the AM devices to hide the side panels on the screens. Then you would essentially have an MFD and a PFD in your panel that looks and acts like the real thing.

[@markfletcher4579]

@bleonardyou Of course. I could have easily done that but I like what I made because it is slim and out of the way. There are plenty of people who make what you're referring to. Propwash Simulations is one that comes to mind.

[@anthonyvallillo422]

I got what I call a button box from a much more computer adept friend, and it has just about all of the knobs and buttons of the G 1000 except for the joystick. But that matters little at this point since none of the sims appear to model that g1000 function. Right now there is nothing on either platform that comes anywhere near fully modeling the G1000 except for the old Mindstar setup, which only works in FSX afaik. Are you using some special software for the g1000?

[@gregs9492]

Dude! I remember you from the CH Forums! The Frankenpotatoe!

[@markfletcher4579]

Hi Greg! Glad you found me. You do have me confused with Ken King though who designed the FP. I worked with Ken on some projects. He's still around too, just talked to him recently. I'm the creator of the LeftyHotas. I sold several hundred of those things back in the day. Great to hear from you!

[@gregs9492]

@@markfletcher4579Yeah, I knew you did the lefty hotas, I thought you did the Frankenpotatoe as well. I was on that forum as Lupus (same picture). I almost ordered the lefty hotas mod from you at one time.

[@koneofsilence5896]

great project and well done! one question: how do you get to control the range button? I just can not find it in the MSFS configuration menu

[@markfletcher4579]

Ah, great question! You'll want to post a similar question when you decide to map your PFD and MFD ENT, CLR buttons too, along with a number of others. What's happening here is Microsoft, in their haste to get MSFS out the door, hired some college freshman CSC 101 students to code up many of the support utilities like the CONTROL OPTIONS and that absolutely horrrrrrrrriiiiibbbbblle WORLD MAP thing you select your flight from. Your question is pretty much what Ken in the post just following this one is addressing. Unfortunately, my response is to stop using that CONTROL OPTIONS piece of junk and shell out some more money for either FSUIPC or Axis And Oh's (my favorite) which will give you access to ALL the flight sim events as well as a host of other features you find in X-Plane but the little freshman students didn't know how to implement. Sorry to be so belligerent here but as I'm sure you've noticed, this is a sore subject for me. The largest programming company on the surface of the planet cannot write decent support systems??? Sorry to unload on you but the simple answer is CONTROL OPTIONS does not provide but just the "major" commands like the ones we're discussing ignoring "not so important" commands like "range", "ENT", "CLR", etc. That's why FSUIPC and AAO are not likely to go away. I should probably do a video on this but I'm not sure I can do it without uttering words I don't like to say and my wife certainly hates to hear! Oh, and thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate it!

[@koneofsilence5896]

@@markfletcher4579 thanks for your response and all the details I got the Octavi and it does most of the MFD functions - just not range That's how I got to the question Guess there is some DIY on my way to a better setup

[@markfletcher4579]

@@koneofsilence5896 Oh yeah, I saw that somewhere. That looks interesting.

[@michaelpaitchell3476]

Hi. Is a third party software package needed to use the Leo Bodnar board with MSFS 2020, even for a simple knob like the steam gages on a Cessna 172 or it's radios? Or do you need it only to access the knobs on the G1000? You mention the third party USB joystick managers in some below comments, like those for SPAD. Thanks in advance.

[@markfletcher4579]

Hi Michael. The Bodnar boards all look like joysticks to Windows. You can simply assign the buttons to game functions just like you would with any joystick. You would only need 3rd party programs like AxesAndOhs or SpadNext if you want to control things MSFS don't provide (which is anything related to the G1000). As for a schematic, you really don't need one as the connections are that simple. A button has two connections; one goes to ground and the other goes to one of the pinouts around the edge of the board. There is nothing more to it but that. There are plenty of videos on YT showing detail on how this is done. Hope that helps and good luck on your project.

[@michaelpaitchell3476]

@@markfletcher4579 THANK YOU!

[@rmm9676]

Mark... How did you make the stand for the TWO Radios PLUS XPndr? Propwash only has a ready made bracket for two devices not three? Thanks.

[@markfletcher4579]

I made it out of a piece of sheet metal.

[@The531Ghost]

Okay Mark, we gatta talk. It's been my experience BARO will not INC or DEC unless I press the B key in MSFS. Whereas in XPlane I can turn my knob assigned and it works perfectly. Thoughts?

[@markfletcher4579]

Hey Ken! Great to hear from you! I know this Knob Array Panel is no FrankenPotato but, hey, I'm trying! Interesting problem you're bringing up here. I assume you mean you are assigning a key/button to RADIO->KOLLSMAN->INCREASE ALTIMETER (for example) and cannot make it work unless you press the 'B' key (SET ALTIMETER) first. When I assign a key for this, it doesn't do anything at all for me even if I press 'B'. Unfortunately I'm not much help here as I don't assign buttons this way in MSFS because I don't use the CONTROL OPTIONS to control my peripherals. I use Axis and Oh's (alternative to FSUIPC) for all my controls because I really dislike the default control options. In AAO (or FSUIPC), you would use "H:AS1000_PFD_BARO_INC" to increment the BARO. I had so much trouble with CONTROLS OPTIONS that I aborted it early on and haven't looked back. Yet another part of MSFS that is poorly implemented.

[@The531Ghost]

@@markfletcher4579 Thanks for the reply! I'm using a FlightSimBuilder (MFD) actually. On it there is a CRS/BARO knob(s). As stated, assigned in XPlane, all the buttons/knobs work flawlessly. I can INCR/DECR BARO as assigned (in game). I'm using (still 30+ years later) my CH Products Yoke/ProPedals/Throttle Quadrant and Logitech Flight Panels (Radio/AP/Switch). In MSFS using the FSBuilder.exe for MSFS, MSFS sees all but BARO INCR/DECR. Weird. So, my workaround in MSFS, in Control Manager I've assigned to a switch (button) on my Yoke Set-Altimeter b and that sets the altimeter in game to what ATIS is calling out. I've even tried MobiFlight to assign BARO INCR/DECR in MSFS, no joy, still. I brought the issue up to the manufacture of the FlightSimBuilder G1000, and still no joy. It's not hardware related as it wouldn't work in XPlane, right?

[@TheOneTrueSpLiT]

What "events" / "actions" do you map to in MSFS for the outer and inner rotary encoders for the FMS knob? I'm really only interested in having a physical knob for the MFD FMS knob for entering ICAOs but can't see what to map a physical device to in MSFS.

[@markfletcher4579]

See the very first post. I made a table showing all the assignments I made. Course you'll need a third party device manager like Axis And Ohs or SPAD.NEXT to assign most of them.

[@TheOneTrueSpLiT]

@@markfletcher4579 Got it, exactly what I was looking for, many thanks. I have the full version of FSUIPC7 and a Leo Bodnar BU0836A I put in my Saitek Yoke to replace the default axes so just need a rotary encoder (or two).

[@TheOneTrueSpLiT]

@@markfletcher4579 I've successfully mapped keys to the inner and outer knobs in FSUIPC using the assignments to the MSFS events you listed, now I just need a basic dual rotary encoder but the one Leo Bodnar has is £33.60!!! 😲😧

[@markfletcher4579]

@@TheOneTrueSpLiT Check out www.propwashsim.com/store/p/dual-encoder-kit These are decent and good price at $13

[@scottr7550]

I just received the same encoders and Micro-BBI, but not finding the exact wiring schematic for the bbi boards. Assuming A B a b is 1 2 3 4 and all the com tie together and to GRD on the BBI along with one side of the pushbutton?

[@markfletcher4579]

I plug in the BBI and test with the Windows GameControllers app. Then I use a couple of jumper cables and test what leads do what on the encoders once I have the encoder soldered onto the circuit board. If I remember correctly, "A" is left turn on the big knob and "a" left turn on the small knob. "B" and "b" do the same to the right. "C" is the push button. As for GND, just daisy-chain all of them together. You don't need a schematic. In fact, it's better to figure it out yourself by testing that way you learn more and feel more confident. Good luck!

[@scottr7550]

​@@markfletcher4579 Woo love spinning those knobs heh, Thanks again for your time to make this video!

[@jmuellerdrenkberg]

I'm working on a similar solution. Could you provide your code, especialy for the rotarys

[@markfletcher4579]

Hi jmueller. Well, there isn't necessarily any code to show other than the chart I already listed in this post. If you are targeting MSFS here, you are going to need a good third party device manager (due to the an incomplete implementation of MSFS). I use Axis And Ohs but there are others, SPAD.NEXT and FSUIPC. The problem is MSFS does not provide all the necessary commands (e.g. AS1000 PFD ENT) and these tools exist to attempt to finish what Asobo should have done. Sad but true. Hope that points you in the right direction.

[@pertevdural4513]

14 aralık 2023

[@garysherwood3136]

Homeboy I’m still running you ch producers program in aces high! Swoose

[@markfletcher4579]

Oh my! You've outlasted me! I need to send you some kind of trophy!

[@HoundDogMech]

In a Flight Simulatoy you may Get White Knuckles & Sweat But you ain't die even when you crash, Unless you have a Heart Attack. Why not take a Full size Print of the Planes Panel Glue it to a .060 peice of Aluminum/Plastic sheet. Cut out holes for Displays/Instruments/Switches/Push Buttons/Knobs/Circute Brakers/ETC. Then add all Switches ETC where cut outs were made Hook them Up to Multipal Arduinos loacated elswhere, so the Panel is as Thin as Possible. Now place this over an UHDTV of approiate sise so the Screen appears thru cutouts where Instruments/Read outs/PFD/MFD/Engin instryment/Displays are located. Locate your Yoke/Throttle/Rudder Peddles below the UHDTV table. Now you have a Actual size AC Panel with Real Switches/Knobs/Buttons with real Tactil feel in their correct Location.

[@markfletcher4579]

Hi HoundDog. Your idea is good if I wanted to simulate a specific cockpit. My design was to have a small non-aircraft-specific panel that fit neatly above my throttle quad. I wanted it to be generic because I fly several types of planes plus I wanted the layout easy to reach for the knobs without looking. I figured anybody watching could take my idea and easily adapt it to whatever design they want as you have illustrated. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, Good luck with your design!