Gorgonopsians: Permian Sabretooth Predators

[@M_11_m41n]

Me: (See the next video will be Pachycephalosaurs) ......Oh dear lawd.... The history of this clade is frustrating as hell.

[@dr.polaris6423]

Yep it sure is, which is exactly why I wanted to cover it!

[@HassanMohamed-jy4kk]

Right after the evolution and the history of the Evolution Of The Pachycephalosaurs, why don’t you also get to make a suggestion to create the KZbin Videos Shows about the evolution and the history of the Extinct Prehistoric Giant Birds Of Prey Species called the Teratornithidae, such as Teratornis, Aiolornis, Argentavis, Cathatornis, Oscaravis, and Taubatornis in the next couple of weeks to think about that one coming up next?!⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍👍

[@hoibsh21]

Ya, they're very hard headed.

[@floriandastl8037]

😮

[@aceundead4750]

I wanted to make some kind of smartass comment, but nothing really comes close to the history of pachy's themselves in terms of smartass.

[@Kurotitan7125]

This is an episode I've been waiting for! Gorgonopsians are my favorite stem mammals next to Dimetrodon!

[@Svensk7119]

My favorites entire! Dimetrodon, ehh.

[@wild_skelly_ph]

My favorites are gorgonopsians with nochnitsa being my favorite gorgonops after that I think I like the dinocephalians the,it's between them and dycynodonts(if my English is a little of its cause I'm german)

[@themonsterbaby]

​@@wild_skelly_phyou don't ever have to apologize for bad English. Most English speakers can't even speak proper English.

[@Tsotha]

I find Gorgonopsians more interesting because they look more patently "wrong" to modern day human eyes, looking like some weird cross between monitor lizards and either cats or dogs depending on the individual species. (and as Polaris pointed out, the bigger species were very similar to modern bears)

[@daniell1483]

Of all the animals in deep time, Gorgonopsians are probably my favorite. They look so alien, I'd not be surprised if someone told me they were actually alien in origin lol!

[@ZentaBon]

but look at hippo skulls or even the skeleton of molamola fish you'd see we probably reconstructed gorgonopsids creatures horribly wrong. There's no way we can guess how they looked. Based on the skulls of clouded leopards or domestic cats, I doubt their teeth stuck out in the open the way they're depicted.

[@Tsotha]

they hit right in the uncanny valley between "mammal" and "reptile", more so than any other synapsids

[@EddieDubs]

I don't think they look alien at all. I feel like they look exactly like what you'd imagine thinking of a transitional animal between a more reptilian creature and a mammal.

[@posticusmaximus1739]

Interesting that Proto-mamals would be the beginning of a recurring convergent evolutionary theme for later mammals: saber teeth, reoccuring multiple times over in placentalsand marsupials

[@oatcakebabydaddy-dx4lw]

I really enjoy, these well put together videos. I like the narrator's calm voice. Kinda like David Attenburo.

[@alexandrbatora9674]

Ok. I need to tell the world. GORGONOPSIANS ARE MY MOST FAVOURITE ANIMALS EVER! And I'm in a process of writing an adventure book about pair of gorgonpsids. I'm 10k words in and hope to be finished by year's end.

[@alejandrolopezvaca3156]

That's so cool!!!

[@smallestcharles]

good luck with that sounds really cool man

[@alejandrolopezvaca3156]

Do you have an idea for the name of the book?

[@alexandrbatora9674]

@@alejandrolopezvaca3156 Not just yet. (Yeah, that's a Mgľa quote.) I think something really generic could work, I don't want anything epic like "Tales From The Great Dying", but even that could work. 🙂

[@BrandSimmang-wt1jv]

As a physical anthropologist I do have a secret love of paleontology… I am so glad I stumbled by chance on your page. Between your engaging yet calming voice and the accessible you make the information you present is amazing. Thank you for making these videos! You do a beautiful job.

[@prairierider7569]

@Dr. Polaris Thank you very much. I quite enjoyed this. Over the last 4 years or so I’ve been very disabled so I watched so many documentaries/films/shows on everything from our universe/multiverse to flora/fauna to the history of the earth to our military and global history. I’m about to turn 50, my grade 6 teacher really peaked my interest with the history of the homo genuis back to Australopithecus and why we came down the trees, the earths cycle made it so most of africa went from forests/gurgles to plains. I find that I learn so much more this way than the old memorize and regurgitate school days.

[@dudotolivier6363]

There was a genus that should have been worthnothing to put forward. And this was Cyonosaurus. Cyonosaurus was a small member of Gorgonopsia (like Lycaenops, another genus that would also have been very interesing to showcase, as some studies and speculations suggest an arboreal lifestyle) which lived during the end of the Permian and whose fossils were found in South Africa. With the skull measuring 9 to 18 centimeters long, the rest of the body was estimated to be 60 to 150 cm long, this was a very small predator, similar to a House cat, Red fox or Mustelid in term of trophic level and ecology. And had in general a skull more closely similar to therocephalian than others members of Gorgonopsia. The most important and worth nothing aspect of this creature however, was that some studies have revealed this animal to actually have survived the Permian End Extinction/Great Dying, and managed to remain alive at least until the start of the Early Triassic ! This being determined analysis of three specimens discovered in the sedimentary strata of the Karoo basin, in South Africa. Meaning that Gorgonopsian have survived at least the mass extinction and only became entirely extinct as an order at the Early triassic, much longer that initally thoughts for decades ! And ending like they start, as a small species such Nochitsa.

[@Diloparker]

Fun fact: Our dog named Grace had a clutch of puppies in January this year. And we sold all of them except for one we named “Lumpy”, because he had a fatty tumor on his side. Initially the plan was to keep him until we get rid of the tumor. But because he grew on me so much, my parents allowed me to keep him for my birthday in March. So I renamed him to Atrox, named after Rubidgea Atrox. However what I didn’t consider, was that there were other species named “Atrox” like Thalassotitan atrox, and Panthera atrox. But also “Atrox” in Latin stands for “Fierce, terrible, or savage” So essentially I unintentionally named my new dog savage.

[@dudotolivier6363]

That the very first time in your Channel's History that you mention and depict one of the online reconstruction/paleoart of the people that made them, and mentionned the name of the author itself ! And yes, Nix is a very good paleoartist !

[@DragonFae16]

Unless they had a very fast tooth replacement rate, Gorgonopsians should likely be depicted with extra-oral tissues covering their sabre teeth, as should all animals with sabre teeth.

[@altanativeftw2625]

Another excellent video, Dr. Polar Bear! I can tell you've been reading the Permian-Triassic extinction's Wikipaedia page, as you've discussed a lot of the content I have recently added to that page!

[@M_11_m41n]

The kings of the Late Permian. I always make this analogy when I talk about Inostrancevia at the museum I work in: Take a pitbull, give it the weaponry of a bear trap, give it the personality of a Chihuahua, let it grow to about 11 feet, give it a 2 to 3 foot skull, and make it about 500 to 700 pounds.

[@XaeeD]

Kinda convoluted, isn't it?

[@M_11_m41n]

@@XaeeD It's supposed to be funny and I try to make it as simplistic as possible just to get people to look at animals in the Paleozoic Era. Because, usually when I work in the Paleontology Hall, everyone wants to go to the dinosaur area and it sometimes gets me a little upset.

[@XaeeD]

@@M_11_m41n I see. It's understandable, but these animals are fascinating in their own right; on their own terms. I think people, and especially kids, need to 'see' that. I also think that a skeleton speaks to the imagination, and the creative mind enjoys envisioning it alive, in a foggy Permian world. There's a wondrous element to that. This is what appealed to me most, as a child; I don't think the humorous approach would captivate a younger me, but that mysterious aspect always did. I get it though, you're painting an image for them, and kids are visual. It's why I was always so absorbed in paleo art: windows into this dream-like world, where the bare ground truth (of the fossils) bleeds over into reality (albeit a somewhat fantastical reality). Perhaps simplicity isn't always ideal. Children can be quite clever, and I'd love to paint a picture for them, in words, that's accurate and enthralling. Hmm.. I think I envy you now. You have a fun job...

[@altanativeftw2625]

@@M_11_m41n What museum do you work at?

[@M_11_m41n]

@@altanativeftw2625 Houston Museum of Natural Science. I work as a concierge, visitor services, and volunteer for Paleo Lab.

[@alexandrbatora9674]

Dr. Polaris, do you know the author of art at 5:42, plaese? It's such a cute baby!

[@Alberad08]

Lots of fascinating content - thank you so much for creating & sharing this!

[@Grant_Scarboro]

Hippo bears? I think that title works better for the entelodonts.

[@t0mn8r35]

Your channel shows the most interesting animals.

[@timokarff6162]

Thanks for tributes to Gorgonopsians and Dicynodonts/Anomodonts - fascinating clades more closely related to mammals of today even though they lived before or at the beginning of the Age of Dinosaurs! I will definitely get PZ mods for Inostrancevia and Lisowicia, and I am considering some other Gorgonopsian, too!

[@LtPickles]

Gorgonopsids are one of my all time favs. Love videos on them. Now, I want to see a battle between gorgonopsids vs smiledon

[@dudotolivier6363]

Even if Nix's speculative view and reconstruction of Gorgonopsid as very fat animals like a hippo-bear is undertandable because of the plantigrade and similar sizes the big species of Gorgonopsid have in common with Ursid, I think however that such appearance for them was not what they truly look. This fat appearance is not really realistic for a couple of reasons. There a lot of differences between bears and Gorgonopsid. Bears are omnivorous animal, and more of them in general have a great herbivory inclinaison with meat being for all (except Polar Bear) a minor component in their diet. And always in a opportunistic way. By scavenging or even more rarely by active hunting. But bears are very occasional predators. They can reach great level of fat due to the great plants matters level they eat whithout moving a lot. While Gorgonopsid were active predators, being ambush hunters but still active ones, and were hypercarnivorous animal as their specialized teeth clearly show it. Eating only exclusively meat from animals they hunt and kill themselves. Such animals, and active predators, whatever ambush or pursuit ones, never such level of fat because the fat/energy they have in the skin throughout their body is permanently used/depensed to hunt, chase and kill preys. With such actions and activities asking a lot of energy. Hippos themselves are fat too like bears because of the same reasons. They are omnivores and don't move a lot since they are restricted to waters most of the time. Their land cousins, the Entelodonts, were like hippos, but being more active predators and being on land, they weren't fat animals. Sure, we have and know hypercarnivorous animals who were very fat in term of mass like T-rex when adults, but Tyrannosaurid are very differents animals, and their hunting behaviors were differents from the ones of the Gorgonopsid. Plus, we know they had a social structure for most of them, with groups being more like families mainly. And will the gracile teenager specimens bringing and redirecting to the adult the big slow megafauna prey to the adults which ending the job by killing them. In a perfect teal work. (it's a good consensus based on good fossils evidences). Yet, for Gorgonopsid, we lack of every possible fact about their social structure. But were more likely to be solitary hunters. Better analogs to Gorgonopsid to base their reconstruction would be, for me, the Amphycionid, aka the Bear-Dogs. Since they were similar animals overall, with primarily carnivorous diet, plantigrade feet, short fast runners and having an ambush predator lifestyle. So, yes, while an interesting view, it's not a very plausible vision to what Gorgonopsid must have been. For me, Gorgonopsid were more like typical traditional paleoarts/depictions with just a slightly typical mammalian looking fat skin, similar to lions or wolves.

[@alexandrbatora9674]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. 😛 Well put analyses! I'd LOVE to know how the living gorgonopsids looked like. Being an absolute layman, my opinion BEARS little weight, but I still think that your comparison with bears, and the whole "ambush predator body plan and mode of hunt" part sound reasonable and convincing. I doubt that they were as skinny as they are depicted in 7/10 of paleoart, but they definitely could not have been bulky fat hippo-bears. My main pet peeve are the temporal fenestrae, they surely weren't depressions, but they must have been covered, after all this is where the muscles attach.

[@dudotolivier6363]

@@alexandrbatora9674 Well, wasn't really a opinion of mine and more a true objective analysis than anything else. And even if that still my opinion, Nix's Gorgonopsid also still their own one as well. But in her case, it will be one that not a lot of people would agree on. And more would agree on the kind of view I gived. Like I said at the end, Gorgonopsid were very likely to be indeed similar to 7/10 of the Paleoarts on them, but with slightly more fat (and not just skin on bones). But overall, they would from far not be very different from most of these reconstructions we have of them today. We have currently several predators that justly are like these paleoarts of Gorgonopsid with slightly more fat on them. The Big Cats of the Panthera genus are a good example. Big, large, exclusive carnivores and ambush predators like the Gorgonopsid, and their are all pretty skinny animals with a short fur on them. The level of skinny they have is only a little higher than the ones of the Gorgonopsid in their reconstructions. So, Gorgonopsid weren't as different of the common current idea we have of them.

[@alexandrbatora9674]

@@dudotolivier6363 it's just a movie quote. 🙂 I was honestly surprised and more than convinced by your analyses. Yeah, I' ve just downloaded a few shorter works about gorgonopsids, including one that compares the functional anatomy of them and the sabretooth cats. It's extremely interesting, even though a bit harder to read for a layman. I may be mixing several works together, but I think that it was Eva Gebauer's dissertation. Considering the paleoart, an issue could be the lacking fur, I guess it changes the appearance a lot. Imagine a shaved wolf or bear, it will look much less bulkier.

[@LudwigVaanArthans]

​@@dudotolivier6363given that the animals are long dead, it's something we need to wrestle with, that it's just that, an opinion some might be more educated, some less, but opinions nonetheless

[@NitroIndigo]

Also, fat is useful for insulation, and most bears have to endure harsh winters. It wouldn't be helpful in a global desert.

[@foreverpinkf.7603]

It's hard to understand why your channel doesn't have many more subscribers. This is, by far, my favorite paleontology channel.

[@ZentaBon]

I hate the shrink wrap gorgonopsids. I noticed it a while back, glad to see people are depicting it more realistically.

[@cro-magnoncarol4017]

Non-shrink wrapped gorgonopsids are kinda cute.

[@ZentaBon]

@@cro-magnoncarol4017 as their own thing sure but as an attempted realistic depiction nahhh

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

There pretty much the saber tooth cat before the saber tooth cat also Nimravids, Barbourfelidae, and Thylacosmilus do count

[@M_11_m41n]

Nimravids, Barbourfelidae, and Thylacosmilus would like to have a word with you.

[@Sirdilophosaurusthethird2.0]

@@M_11_m41noh

[@M_11_m41n]

@@indyreno2933 I know, but they were basically trying to compare gorgonopsians to saber-toothed cats in a vague way.

[@dudotolivier6363]

It's was really a very good video as usual ! Just a shame that you forget to at least mention the small Lycaenops, thus this genus is easily one of the best known member of this famous clade after Inostrancevia and Gorgonops themselves ! Outside these three, all the others members you mentionned in this video are pretty just unknown to the public. Would have been good to made some presentation about Lycaenops, especially to precise if it's was really a arboreal animal or not. Since most depictions of this genus depict it as a efficient climber and/or arboreal specie living a part of its life on trees. So it's would have been nice to see if there was some fossils evidences suggesting this interpretation or if that is a pure invention with zero support from fossils. And that what we see in "Primeval New World" about the animal is just a lie or not.

[@Anuchan]

Could you do a video on H. Sapiens? This unique species appears to be destroying its environment.

[@ZentaBon]

It is. It's a strange species. It's so ugly

[@vickrykayser3129]

Cats, who are certainly mammals, have Jacobsens organs as well, so why would that make gorgonopsids less mammet-like?

[@thelaughinghyenas8465]

Thank you for the very interesting and detailed tour of these animals. I learned a lot.

[@jeanettemarkley7299]

Thank you, Dr.

[@technologic21]

Gorgonopsians were another bunch of weird looking animals, and there were many during the Permian. Great vid!

[@davelee9612]

Gorgonopsids are my favorite! Did they even have the ability to hear yet?

[@eybaza6018]

They did,they had external eardrums behind their lower jaw.

[@drnox8268]

Great article. Many thanks DrP. 👍🏼🇦🇺

[@edwinreveron870]

Can you please make a video of the evolution of Panthera palaeosinensis, into Panthera blytheae, snow leopards, Panthera zdanskyi, and tigers..

[@takenname8053]

Love these guys, a perfect mix between reptile and mammal

[@dynojackal1911]

Please, more videos of your Alter-Earth spec evo project.

[@gatoninja4387]

There is a serious error in the reconstruction, they make them without ears and the spaces on each side of the skull appear to support a fraction of the masseter muscle, it supports the muscles of the ears and this skull has that area very developed, therefore it should be reconstructed with ears like those of a dog or cat proportional to the bone structure that supports the ear muscles

[@edwinreveron870]

Please make a video of Panthera Shawi, and their evolution into common leopards, Mosbach lions, today's lions, cave lions, American lions, and jaguars....

[@justinwilliam6534]

Could you try do a video on the monotremes please.

[@sirduckoufthenorth]

2:41 Are there any predators known to do that? even the komodos with their ripping teeth don't just let prey bleed out and die, the follow up with more bites

[@firstcynic92]

Once I get my time machine working I'll bring a bunch of them back to the future.

[@andythegoatman694]

Yessss love this channel

[@robwalsh9843]

Who knows how different things would have been if there was no Great Dying. Protomammals would have free reign, dinosaurs may not have evolved and life as we know it would go on a completely separate course.

[@erichtomanek4739]

Gorgonopsians (any species!) make the best Guard "Stem Mammals". Ensure that you obtain a pup young enough and you train them properly, they will be loyal and affectionate protectors of you and your family for life.

[@ZentaBon]

I would love a gorgon

[@Kurotitan7125]

Dude owning an Inostrancevia would be like having a grizzly bear as a guard pet Complete protection, no survivors

[@wild_skelly_ph]

Could you make video about the early evolution of tapirs? And maby a video about extinct suids(since you seem to mention them in quite a few of your videos)

[@Ahonya666]

How do we know that they didn't had ears? I've always seen these creatures depicted as earless. There is something on the fossils that indicates this or is only an artistic preference?

[@geoffzuo9831]

I just despise the addition of digitigrade feet to gorgonopsid depiction, as well as the shrink-wrapping and excessive mammalization Gorgonopsia was still relatively basal among therapsids, and wouldn't have had many of the derived traits that speculative artists give them

[@eybaza6018]

They were fairly derived as sister to the clade containing Cynodontia but I agree,they almost certainly didn't have whiskers, fur and external ears. At least they're not as bad as the overtly mammalized Dimetrodon depictions...

[@Spenceham-km3nv]

so guys you all know that we can use the tiger DNA and the naked mole rat DNA to fill in the gaps of there genome

[@quailking8265]

What music is used in this video Great Vid anyway, as always!

[@glennspencer]

Great video..very interesting. Can the good Doctor or anyone else tell me why mammals never evolved a green fur for camouflage? Reptiles,fish amphibians and birds did so why not mammals? Is it due to the fur itself rather than scales or feathers? Thanks Glenn

[@SoulDelSol]

They look like they'd bite things

[@fenrirgg]

That chunky gorgonopsid looks like a terrestrial seal 😂, it's adorable tbh

[@MrBargill]

Primeval the TV show did a great episode on it...

[@derekkrumel1407]

I freakin love these dudes and will watch any and all videos on them lol

[@HassanMohamed-jy4kk]

Right after the evolution and the history of the Pachycephalosaurs , why don’t you also get to make a suggestion to create the KZbin Videos Shows about the evolution and the history of the Extinct Prehistoric Giant Predatory Birds called the Teratorns in the next couple of weeks to think about that one coming up next?!⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍👍👍

[@LorenzoVargas1981]

I missed your videos

[@Yokomation]

what happenede to your spec-evo project?

[@HassanMohamed-jy4kk]

Right after the evolution and the history of the Evolution Of The Pachycephalosaurs, why don’t you also get to make a suggestion to create the KZbin Videos Shows about the evolution and the history of the Extinct Prehistoric Giant Birds Of Prey Species called the Teratornithidae, such as Teratornis, Aiolornis, Argentavis, Cathatornis, Oscaravis, and Taubatornis in the next couple of weeks to think about that one coming up next?!⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍👍👍👍

[@timkbirchico8542]

nice vid. thanks

[@TrajGreekFire]

I think you missed I. africana that was described 2 weeks ago

[@dudotolivier6363]

Since that justly was 2 weeks ago, he must have not the time to proprely shown it, since making each video for every 2 weeks releases is a pretty hard work to do. And he still have a life outside his educative channel. But still, when mentioning Inostrancevia, he still precise there two species in this genus, one russian and one african. At least it still that taken and positive.

[@mikewilson858]

Would their teeth continually replace like reptiles or they would have only one adult set.

[@eybaza6018]

They were continuously replaced

[@tm43977]

The gorgonopsians from the Paleozoic era

[@peterasp1968]

They look more like dagger tooth than Sabre tooth.

[@philhiggins-ty5vg]

Why do they have no ears?

[@joshcatgaming1108]

Very interesting facts 👌.

[@joshcatgaming1108]

The middle permain had a lot of mammal like reptiles, I never knew they lived in Africa and Eurasia. And sub spices of it as well. Very good speculation of these ancient pretedors.

[@maozilla9149]

cool video

[@Auldron]

Nope! No Saber Toothed "Wolves" for us!😆

[@alandavis2512]

Shock is blood loss

[@eybaza6018]

I have one big criticism in regards to this video: you mentioned how Gorgonopsians were ectotherms with only slightly higher metabolisms than monitor lizards. There are several problems with this assumption. The first is the derived position of Gorgonopsians in Therapsida,as the basamlost group of Theriodontia. Even the basal Ophiacodon shows signs of quick growth indicating a slightly higher metabolism than Varanids. Therapsids have proven to be even more ,, advanced" in that regard. With at least semi-erect limbs, more differentiated/specialized teeth,more active lifestyles and in some cases a secondaty palate: all things ectotherms aren't known for in most cases. As well as this,studies of growth on the bones of various Therapsids show that even Dinocephalians most likely had mesothermic metabolisms. And while Dicynodonts and Eutheriodonts would convergently evolve the highest metabolism of any Therapsids,Gorgonopsians were close relatives of the latter. Lastly,Gorgonopsians were active predators with some genera like Inostrancevia having cursorial adaptations, I doubt ectotherms could not only fill that niche even in relatively cold habitats but also compete against their Therocephalian relatives yet still come out on top for the time being. In conclusion:based off my knowledge of Therapsid biology I'd suspect Gorgonopsians having a slightly higher metabolism than Dinocephalians as most likely. I'm sorry but that one statement irritated me a lot.

[@darthcheney7447]

Real good.

[@TeethToothman]

❤❤❤

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

The brain of this animal was tiny, as far as I can see.

[@eybaza6018]

They did just fine with that,aninals don't always need to be brilliant to achieve success.

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

@@eybaza6018, that is correct. It's just an observation. They were clearly able to survive.

[@__-be1gk]

Please turn your volume up, you are very quiet compared to everything else on KZbin

[@gattycroc8073]

great video as always. by the way I would live everyone who reads this comment to go subscribe to Raptor Rex. he makes breakdowns of prehistoric creatures and puts a lot of effort into them. I asked him to do a breakdown of Purussaurus for his 10k special when he reaches it.

[@lilyeves892]

10:57 thanks i hate it

[@genghiskhan6809]

Hippobears

[@carlosalbuquerque22]

Fun fact: during the first pulse of the end Permian extinction, Russian gorgonopsians like Inostrancevia replaced African gorgonopsians for some reason

[@eybaza6018]

​@@theanonymousmemester2150We've only discovered Inostrancevia africana this year!

[@gatoninja4387]

There is a serious error in the reconstruction, they make them without ears and the spaces on each side of the skull appear to support a fraction of the masseter muscle, it supports the muscles of the ears and this skull has that area very developed, therefore it should be reconstructed with ears like those of a dog or cat proportional to the bone structure that supports the ear muscles