Gouden Leeuw - Heavy Suffering VS Submarine

A heavy plane-focused cruiser that does 33.5 knots with ship-based ASW against a soviet sub that has 37 knots surface speed. Sounds like the recipe for 20 minutes of suffering.
Discord: / discord
Stream: / flamuu
Insta: / flamugram
Twitter: / flamuchz

[@Flamuu]

My airstrikes unironically did some insanely heavy lifting towards the end, poor Burger got absolutely bombed to shit. Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/

[@sargisshirinyan207]

That Hakuryu continuosly flying through everyone's AA to come and drop a AA cruiser, and not even capable of doing a single good drop, but still being allowed to reach it's target is exactly what's wrong with this game.

[@Boatswain_Tam]

At least in RTS CVs, you had to spend time & get good at it for you to dumpster ppl. And my my, once you're good, were you the terror of the high seas! Now? There are no skills needed. Anyone can be a glorified squadron commander flying through non existent AA. If that Hakuryu player did what he did back in the day, he would have been punished for it. But now? We cater to the lowest common denominator

[@MarvinWestmaas]

"We cater to the lowest common denominator" Welcome to WeGreedy's grand gameplay design at work!@@Boatswain_Tam

[@VUO4E]

Yesterday, got disgusted after 4 battles : dodging CV torps while being pinged and torped to death, for 4 games in a row. You can see the planes coming but there's nothing you can do against them. You do have some counter against subs...but you don't see them so you can't use the counter. Result is the same. Conclusion: NOBODY at WG plays their own game - NOBODY.

[@game-box4105]

Stop playing the game. I also did. It's no fun anymore.

[@seb9886]

Same reason I uninstalled the game yesterday it's just pain.

[@Endcsline_Live2D]

CV planes you can see from far away, and it's more of annoying chipping damage is most cases. A sub can just half submerged spot and nuke you for your full health bar while it sits 4km away from you. Now I just play a few games, if I get tortured by subs for like 2-3 games, I stop for the day.

[@peepsy1528]

Did you hear the play tester at WG get fired for criticizing WG's baby submarines? It didn't happen, but it would make sense if it did.

[@Crimson34533]

All this shit and to top it all off; the artillery aim bug is worse than ever

[@HunterTN]

Mecklenburg had AA expert 6.5 minutes in. Truly he was having a good time.

[@justoldschoolfrankie1111]

When the question is no longer how good you are, only how incompetent your opponent is. A spreadsheet can't capture that, so Wargaming doesn't understand it.

[@Crosshair84]

Exactly. The spreadsheets only tell you THAT something is unbalanced. It doesn't tell you HOW it is unbalanced. To understand HOW it is unbalanced would require them to play the game. They don't even need to be GOOD at the same. They just need to experience trying to kill a bow-in Petropavlovsk.

[@justoldschoolfrankie1111]

Maybe they aren't allowed to play at work? Or they just don't have time to play at work.. 😆

[@CesarinPillinGaming]

Their spreadsheets were shit and flawed from the start. Remember that there were bot problems? Bots which only ran forward, shot some and then died very quickly to farm HP regardless of performance? Those bots poisoned the real data of players in the game. So WG has been balancing their game on flawed data since the start. Their insistence on shitting on CC's like Flamu who said the truth vs what the spreadsheets said. Just showcases how bad the company is managed and dependent on beancounter's analysis of spreadsheets.

[@justoldschoolfrankie1111]

Maybe that wasn't so stupid because the bots are slowly taking over the game anyway. Sorry, but I can no longer argue seriously when it comes to wargaming, I can only be sarcastic.

[@sozetsukokai9327]

Imagine watching this and going: yeah, subs are balanced. They're not. It's just that the average sub player is so stupid they have to manually breathe

[@tonyennis1787]

You can see pretty easily who the good players are because they shotgun you and you don't even know they are there until it is too late.

[@avrahams1]

Had a guy ingame (sub ofc) argue with me that all the unicum player don't like subs because they "don't like change", that subs are fine and balanced. This playerbase is doomed.

[@user-qw2yu5pz1m]

They should add depth charge effects to the Dutch cruiser line air strike. That might be able to work around their spaghetti code.

[@orcaoremig55]

Carriers get 3 types of plane based armaments, why not just give the Dutch a second plane on a separate key for depth charges

[@j_Snow]

they can't do it, there was a patch where asw got changed (i don't remember if it was nerf) and they fucked up the dutch cruisers airstrike because there is no difference in their code on what goes on the 4 key

[@microwave3611]

Sad to see one of my favorite video games turned into a shitshow thanks to cvs and subs, and griefers who mains and defends those two classes

[@paddington1670]

torpedoes on steerboard!

[@Crosshair84]

A Dutch friend once said that Dutch is just English and Drunk German mixed together

[@pingu1986]

Flamuu is the messi of World of warships (looks like him too)

[@ollihro82]

what? ... u surely do mean stuff in the house messi not football players messi

[@jason41a]

@@ollihro82 *eyerolls*

[@ollihro82]

@@jason41a if someone tries to tell me flamuu is the best wows player I am the one eye rolling...

[@faynk.6247]

nah Messi at least known to be humble. Flamu is more of a Zlatan Ibrahimović of WOWS. The arrogant, sarcastic and condescending personality is just so spot on

[@ollihro82]

@@faynk.6247 zlatan was tooo good still to be compared. flamuu is more 2nd divison player

[@KZ-se4ik]

Only reason subs haven't _completely_ destroyed the game is that the people who play them tend to be drooling facerollers

[@serve_xt4298]

Subs are absolute bullshit. I got shotgun in my San martin 4 minutes into the game with radar and hydro ON. Runs faster than any dd and I cannot detect it with anything so I just die in 4 minutes because i wanted to play the game.

[@williamturner7131]

If you unironically build Gouden and many other ships with either lots of consumables or lots of AA with a full or half AA build, you get crazy mileage out of it. 50% cooldown reduction for example is so massive to ensure you have DCP back as soon as possible for fires and pings. AA commander Gouden is also super super mean because it buffs the leg mod and also... won't stop most first strikes, but usually shoots down the entire squadron on everything short of Malta or Roosevelt even as they return to ship.

[@MarvinWestmaas]

I find it disgusting to see someone boast about 'AA effectiveness' in this game, laughable.

[@Saddy231]

@@MarvinWestmaas Unironically i am an AA enthusiast, i can say it mostly works on gouden leeuw and worcester (nakhimovs still shit on me)

[@MarvinWestmaas]

What 'works'? You can't stop first strikes ever and no competent CV goes for seconds they just go to the next squadron. This whole design was a PR more, nothing gameplay/balance wise in the game has changed for the better with this rework ( and accidentally, babyboats got indirectly buffed again and destroyers shafted again ). The reason AA on cruisers was NEEDED by babyboats, even babyboats with lots of AA mounts like a Montana, was DFAA disrupting drop patterns. DFAA now is a joke. CV counterplay is a joke. The biggest plane killer is flak and it's automated with no player interaction/control. @@Saddy231

[@plebius]

I found it pretty useless most of the time, as you can't deplane them. They can just keep hitting you. I have noticed that good cv's will target the crap out of me when I run that build. Just keep cycling through their load out non stop until. . .

[@volknetai.3690]

And now WG has given us carrier that require no planes preservation. Use all defensive AA as you wish. There will still be planes anyway

[@TheFiretikiman]

It’s quite literally crap like this that I stopped playing this. Years ago and being in a Worcester full AA and throwing confetti felt bad. And then adding subs further reason never to install again.

[@RhomasTotevenaar]

Same brother. Hate playing against 47 chromosome apes and still losing because they play cv/sub

[@volknetai.3690]

Now with carrier that requires absolutely no planes preservation at all. While our AA mounts withered away as the game goes on

[@Crimson34533]

Any game where the lowest skill players can dominate the most skilled players because they're playing something that can't be countered isn't a game worth playing

[@tsuaririndoku]

I wonder why they don’t add Hydrophone on British DDs and American DDs. I have a theory of this is that Subs players are full of people who can’t even know how to even write or even think. To the point that they don’t know how to against DDs if suddenly, DDs can do the counterplay. Despite that I think it would be fine to make a mechanics where. They can make Hydros to detect subs and it depends on the enemy subs how fast you move. Means, that the slower you are the less noise you make. Which makes the ship harder to detect. But if you go at the maximum speed you detection can be spotted by hydro up to 10km. Torpedo reloading also provide noises. Means that to be shotgun in the face. Condition must be made. Subs must preload the torps before they get within Hydro Range and never change the torps types mid fight. Subs must go slower than 1/4 of its speed to avoid detection within 3km. Subs can avoid detecting entirely if you shut down the engine. That’s how you can do shotgunning. Basically a condition that requires literally Luck on the subs to perform shotgunning. Besides, it’s reward the subs to be a stealth hunter. But also punish those who never aware of their surroundings. A fair play between both parties. (Subs also make maximum noise if they use Sonar Ping. Basically, you can do anything until you launch torps. Launching torps also create lots of noises)

[@theShermanator]

I love when Flamu tries to speak Dutch

[@hardkur]

"he try to run away from the fire" yup that sum up my experience with these playerbase perfectly

[@xmlthegreat]

Holy shit what an absolute carry though

[@hughejass9461]

After another day of eight out of ten games being low tier, all of which I was two tiers low, I quit out and that was a week ago. Add to the fun almost all were CV and sub matches, many with two of each, and I kept wondering why I was still playing. Over 20K matches and I have no desire to play the game any more with the current meta. I'll get my fix watching you play. Kudos for sticking with it.

[@AdamGibbyMC2012]

I had the same issue the other day - wrote WG about it. I explained it just like you are now - calm and collected but understandably frustrated. And they said................. "we are sorry you dont like our game - we are constantly trying to improve and hope you will try again in the future." I shit you not. I was in the Gouden Leeuw - against CV and 2 subs.... not a chance in hell.

[@CastresoneAk1]

if u time it righ u can get 4\5 consecutive drops , by the time the planes hit the target u have anothe one ready and so on, it's so good, unfortunate that wg can't implement asw on dutch cruisers. thx wg for the spaghetti code

[@dimvssometimes]

Was playing GL once and the whole flank I was going to was abandoned (even allied sub left the flank at the start of the battle, probably, to avoid being spotted by enemy sub, can't stand it). The only thing I could do is to run away and I even had no opportunity to damage enemy team by guns since the enemy team was out of firing range and the enemy sub was pursuing, torping and spotting me.

[@kings_nemesis5995]

This is just a question even tho i know wargaming doesn't care for how things were irl but do these subs go faster than modern subs do underwater?

[@Schakalaka466]

Regarding this AA-thing: does anyone remember the time before the cv-rework? How the people hated about the strength of passive skills like AA and secondaries? WG reacted on this and rendered AA basically useless. I left before the rework (played both carrier and the „receiving side“) and came back a couple of weeks ago. I dislike the rework from both sides: As a carrier, I always felt that my result scaled extremely with my concentration and experience. I was only able to play 1-2 good games before I needed a mental break. Knowing which ships to avoid (because of actually strong AA), perfectly timed cross drops, spotting for your team etc. made you really strong, while without this things you could have a terrible game. Surprisingly, on the receiving side (playing in surface-ships) I still felt less helpless back then. I liked to play Des Moines and establish no-fly zones for my mates, and in ships with weak AA it always had the choice to search a strong AA-ship and stay close. It was a tradeoff: skilling for better AA was not recommended back than since not in every game was a cv, but at least you had the choice. Long story short: I feel that the result scaled more with your skills and choices back in the days.

[@mondrianbogert6835]

Hit the nail on the head with game enjoyment scaling with skill and choices. Problem how I see it, is in an effort to reach a larger player base (declining player numbers probably helped too), WG literally resigned the CV's to be stupid proof and require as little player input as possible. Need spotting, drop and a fighter and forget about it. On fire, auto DCP. Spotted by sub, auto ASW that's more powerful than any other ASW in the game. Getting hit by flak, start attack run and avoid all flak. Everything about them is catered towards having everything automated for you.

[@bigpoppa1234]

The salt was real in this vid. Sub vs insanely OP GL, cancer vs cancer.

[@jabbamagnus]

I agree totally subs are totally game destroying for many surface ships. No way for you to deal with them just griefing you. If they would get rid of the homing torpedoes that would go a long way to allowing a surface ship to have some counterplay to them.

[@plebius]

Good sub players rarely use the homing. They can sail up to 4km without being spotted and blast you. The only indication you get is if you are lucky enough to see the torps being fired, but that's a big if. I have seen it done to every ship in the game including cv's. As if you don't ping the automatic asw doesn't activate. The whole spotting at periscope depth and not being spotted at ridiculously close range is busted. Out spotting a DD at point blank is busted.

[@plebius]

Being faster than cruisers/dds underwater is busted. The class is busted

[@plebius]

I do accept the ping is also busted making your DCP functionally useless

[@lennyo3034]

Was just about to reinstall the game after a few years off. Was playing since closed beta. Glad I watched this video first, think I'll go to gym instead. Thank you wargaming for caring about our health and encouraging us to exercise!

[@tronjeotten1510]

This was hard earned!

[@trains4ourkids]

"Underwater cancer hotdog" 😂

[@oceanlnr9414]

I’ve literally closed out of this game to go do homework instead because it’s less miserable than fighting CVs, subs, and Conde

[@ed190trejo]

I am main A. Nevsky player and I have the problem to deal subs as nev onlz have depth chargers

[@GodOfWaaar]

who hasen't :)

[@TKDforME1]

There are boats I don’t even bother playing anymore. GL is one of them, Jean Bart, Ohio. Sub infestation sucks.

[@icopgaming]

Used to play the game a lot. 10-20 games per day, when I had time. These days, I play maybe three. And if the first game is a potato-laden lesson in frustration having to deal with CV aircraft and subs, that is all I end up playing. Add in a heavy dose of teammates with very few games played, even in T10 matches (not blaming players, as this is yet another of WG their terrible decisions), and it's just not fun, unfortunately. I think your video very concisely sums up two huge gameplay quality issues that WG have only made worse.

[@eric-wb7gj]

ty 🙏🙏

[@glennv3176]

Kek your subarmine ended up 4th on the scoreboard. The one who somehow found a way to die immediately

[@adrianwalkowiak1190]

This blind drop on submarine got u like from me and a comment (and i never comment)

[@jurijsoklic5026]

17:32 satisfied moment.

[@markalton2809]

I like to watch Flamu to remind me why I no longer play this game.

[@Voygliz]

Subs were the reason I left the game for good. The thing that finally tipped the balance so not wanting to touch the game again.

[@craigalexander966]

It’s frustrating I played PR yesterday and I knew there was a sub near me but too deep for hydro and radar useless all I could do is crappy ASW while he farmed BBs. 😢

[@ProbablyJustASadPotato]

Am I the only one who notice the credits earned xD

[@0ld.Richard]

I watch Flamu to remind me why I uninstalled this shitshow. 💩

[@olly5896]

amazing to watch a company destroy a great game. Subs and CVs. I stopped playing a year ago. No intention of returning.

[@FURIUSKAOS]

CV and subs kill game

[@annex3762]

lol cancer hotdog, love it

[@federox86]

uninstalled two days ago, best choice of my life >D

[@DaSkyrim]

Fun

[@DaylightFan4449]

im just waiting for the day Flamu finally snaps and just has enough and deletes WOWS on stream, i know its coming, its not a matter of if, its a matter of when, a man can only take but so much before they decide its not worth it anymore

[@HeavnIsEarth]

Counter-strike should add artillery to match Wows tactical gameplay.

[@mariodrv]

Suffering. Yeah. That is how you can describe playing against subhumans and flying cancer.

[@Keldarahs]

Wheinu :-)

[@suburbanview]

STOP TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WG. They know WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They dont give a shit about your comments or suggestions. As long they can sell Subs, all is good for them

[@infty1369]

omg, the 40 kn monster...

[@infty1369]

the only way to beat it - play it in early access and exclusively hunt CV's (the german tier X is already fast enough to not be hit by CV asw)

[@sozetsukokai9327]

Wrong. It's 50kts. 😂

[@yoyo61]

not saying that subs are fine in the game because they are absolutely cancerous but objectively CVs are way worse because they can park their stupid ass ship in the corner of the map and torture anyone anywhere on the map. seems that you suffered more against the CV than the sub

[@jakubslavik5595]

And then reddit whales wonder why actual humans hate subs and cvs.

[@DarkFire515]

Remember the good old days when WOWs was all about shooting other ships? Best thing that WG could do to revitalise WOWS would be to simply remove CVs and subs. Absolute cancer on the game.

[@rosalina2938]

I only play operations now. That shows how shit the game is atm.

[@StanleyPain]

I like how you conflate "no tools to deal with subs" with "I have the tools I just don't want to use them" 😅. Ship based ASW is definitely a knife fight 😉

[@dasjuergen]

Seeing even Streamers suffer from game experience is really weird, does WG not watch ? "user experience"? I played two ranked games in a dd last night, it was so bad against cvs, i had to stop the game.

[@chuckles9702]

when I see crap like this, I don't want to play. Luckily there aren't many good sub players on the NA servers.

[@adimm78]

This game peaked winter/christmass 2019, sadly.. a good game turned into shiiite..

[@dr.hairbrain1486]

CV rework was early 2019, so I would say it peaked sometime late 2018

[@frodobeutling5883]

wragming the most toxic company i know. dont play this game they will only love if you pay your dealer.

[@JAK4444]

First

[@HAWKSTA24]

Oh look, another video of you whining about subs.

[@ArterialCanine]

Yeah subs shit me, bad design, bad mechanic. Gg but.

[@sinceRENEss]

Plays a cruiser that ignores islands with planes and complains about subs 😅

[@ozimakistvan]

Did you knew that shells can ignore islands as well? Not to mention CVs...

[@Arisudev]

GL planes behave like slower HE shells. Different from CV planes that can be easily controlled and have much higher damage output.

[@carllanger8873]

found a CV/sub main in the comments.

[@SuziQ499]

CVs need spotting nerf that we all know but the constant whining about how CVs dare do damage is getting repetitive and boring and is no different from you chunking 15k off a ship in B Baby or DD baby and no RTS CVs were even worse as the skill ceiling meant that you never got a good balanced game. Subs I fully agree about should not be in the game.

[@AdamtheRed-]

The only sub counterplay is hopium.