Grading EVERY disc manufacturer's offseason moves

[@ethankariger9064]

Did not know Paul Krans was signed to MVP! Very hype for him

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Yeah I'm excited for him and hoping to see him on some coverage this year! It's cool to see his growth

[@dustinsanford6045]

I give Armory Disc Golf an A+ with this off-season moves.

[@Enskakuski]

Although his contract already extends past next season Prodigy also kept Väinö Mäkelä. One of the best Europeans and perhaps even higher marketing potential than Niklas - at least in Europe.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Yeah Vaino is solid, just wasn't a part of this offseason's moves. To Prodigy's credit, they extended him early 👍 I really like Prodigy, which is one of the reasons I'm hard on them. Same with Innova

[@NickCarroll]

One person I want to mention is Connor O'Reilly. He left Latitude 64 and joined Lone Star. But he has a growing KZbin channel and will probably put more eyes on their molds this year than any other player with the company. This is Lat64's loss, but not the only one. Someone else is Tristan Tanner - who you mentioned - joined DGA, and also said he would be making more content. He's another talent behind and in front of the camera.

[@NJT1013]

I think DGA should be an A. I know they signed only all mid tier players, but i think Eliezra and Tipton are both going to be menaces in the next 2 seasons. Obviously, Cole and Andrew need nothing said here.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

My hesitation with that is that they were signed to 1 year deals, so it'll be "easy" for them to walk next offseason

[@BryceRogers_]

Didn't realize that, but it's a great point. I think ThoughtSpace deserves an A for how much they are doing with such little resources... they''re a huge underdog and a very new company... But they had a much better offseason than even Innova@@ArmoryDiscGolf

[@tonydombovy5207]

Also got Parker Welck

[@bravo_ks]

Special mention to LoneStar for extending my dog for another year 😂🎉

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

A+ 😂

[@Discgolf3r]

Dont be hating on dog signings Mr. Beach bum crackhead with glasses wearing a vans shirt

[@JohnnyD5]

I got my 80 year old grandma a Lone Star sponsorship.

[@Discgolf3r]

Deleted my comment like a coward lol soft

[@truce11]

I'm pretty sure MVP's junior team/players has ballers for both mpo and fpo players. The DGA haul was nice.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I really might have undersold DGA's moves. I don't keep up with Junior stuff, admittedly. Seems like we see the top junior players winning PT events nowadays haha

[@dblevins343]

I have to say, I only have 1 DGA disc but I'm definitely interested in trying out some more.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Yeah, they're molded by discraft and everything I've heard about them has been positive. I just haven't heard enough yet to actually try one in my bag. I expect that to change at some point this year

[@dblevins343]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf the one disc I've got has been fantastic. It practically went into my bag and replaced a disc instantly.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

@@dblevins343 it was a gumbputt, wasn't it? lol

[@dblevins343]

@ArmoryDiscGolf no but I've got to look that up now lol. Vortex. I love my super understable fairway slot (had been a Signal) and this disc is jist amazing.

[@MichaelSweet-nn5bg]

You forgot to give Lone Star an F as well. I love their discs, but the company doesn't seem to have a clue on how to run a pro team.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

It's unfortunate

[@ryanmussell739]

Great video. Anyone ever try to explain the off-season moves to non dg fans ? I tried explaining the Gannon story to my dad and he just laughed at me.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Haha the inside story stuff is niche just like in football or basketball or whatever

[@Fll3nAngel]

as a thrower of discmania. (availability of a finnish company in Finland.. who knew?) losing Simon and Eagle b2b seasons made me think.. but they kept Niklas wihc was great. I have tried some of the more common MVP discs, envy which I did not like. nomad, no bueno. HEX? I saw the numbers and was like, maybe that'll be replacement for the origin... it ended up replacing my method. weirdly stable for a "straight" midrange. I love the glitch. I'll probably keep trying new MVP discs every now and then, but I feel my discs fill in the slots I want pretty well.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Discmania has a great lineup, not a bad one to base your bag on at all. I completely agree about the Hex- that disc is the truth though, I love it

[@samanthony8121]

Dynamic seem to be suffering from overpaying for Kona and Ricky. Their contracts alone are 1.125 million per year. Ricky is a huge player but i dont think he moves plastic like guys like McBeth or Lizotte.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I think you're right. Maybe Innova is waiting for these big contracts to pull back a bit

[@ilikesnow]

DGA gets an A+

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

They made a lot of great moves, I'm not knocking that call. Welck has already won this year, Redalen and Allen are always threats...

[@PeterKornum]

who other than bonanza and drew is on infinity discs?

[@nohasslediscgolf]

In terms of Discs, I'd say MVP, Discraft and Discmania won the offseason. In terms of players, I'd say MVP, Discmania and DGA won. DGA is getting a pretty sweet stacked team.

[@Wolf_man_has_nards]

DGA makes great disc. I have 6 of their molds and I like them all and most of them made the bag.

[@nohasslediscgolf]

@@Wolf_man_has_nards that's awesome! I have actually never thrown DGA and would like to try some out sometime

[@Wolf_man_has_nards]

@@nohasslediscgolf I like their Breaker less beefy than a Zone OS but great wind fighter. The vortex is my go to roller disc or put tons of hyzer on it and it flips flat and holds straight love it for the woods or big anhyzer shots. The rift is a solid mids and I just got the Torrent it’s bit more stable than a ballista, I’m predicting that when it beats in it’s going to be a solid driver in the wind.

[@nohasslediscgolf]

@@Wolf_man_has_nards sweet, appreciate the info on those discs you use!

[@jamesevans7537]

I think I agree with your list....

[@BenNarNar44]

Doin Ellis dirty on the discraft part

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Whoops. He was on my notes, must have just slipped the brain

[@bryansans2564]

Did not know about Krans! he is solid, i just hope he doesnt get under utilized by the other talent. DGA made moves!!! that is what i throw primarily and couldnt be happier with the off season

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

it's a great time to be a DGA fan, they could pop off this year

[@Naiki5]

Wouldn't call Parker Welck a mid-tier. He's going to be up there this year!

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I mean, he's already won the Shelly Sharpe. I'd love to see some more pop offs from him

[@Naiki5]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf yes. He won the Big Arm Challenge as well at the end of 2023. The guy was unknown for the most of us, then decided to take some eagles and make some ridiculous circle 3 putts followed by a memorable jump through two trees to win DDO. Has been one my favourites ever since.

[@hillsdalemc]

Great video and not click bait in content, etc. - keep it up.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Appreciate it, I'll do my best 👊

[@byuidan]

It looks about right. I agree with the grading. You may have undervalued DGA a little bit. Parker and Cole could just bust out at any time.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

You may be right. Eliezra is a wild card as well, because she's going to be great... I just don't know if it'll be this year or in a few

[@a-a-ronk.340]

Any moves from the Texas brands: Mint or Lone Star?

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Lone Star kept Burridge and added Carter Ahrens, but really they've been gutted. Lost Emerson, lost Lisa Fajkus, lost Chandler Kramer, and lost key internal staff members... been real rough for them Mint kept Mason Ford, didn't add any big names

[@ForrestMillerMusic]

Didn’t even mention Locastro. Made me giggle a little 🤭

[@Possu81]

Eagle is a genius in the sport also on marketing side but might be sensitive to injuries and it's unsure how well he has recovered from his injuries. Also eventually Simon and Eagle will be veterans and podiums will be rarer and rarer. Cannon probably is a WC class talent even not that golden on marketing side at least not yet. If you purely look at competition side would not be suprise to me that MVP team will underperform.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I could see it. Eagle's health is a big question mark, I'd love to see him 100% back at it for a full season

[@A.Snipes]

I didn’t realize DD’s team is so weak wow.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

It was really surprising to me to see. I still thought of them as a prominent manufacturer on the competitive front

[@BryceRogers_]

They should have put their funds into somebody more reliable than Kona. It put a lot of pressure on her to carry the FPO side

[@t0rv4ld00]

Latitude64 Lauri Lehtinen has potential. 13th in worlds last year

[@JaredTG.]

Innova is like the past his prime old man of the disc golf world. Couldn't you just picture them saying "back in my day" all of the time? Not they they're a bad company, still make good discs and do have good players. They just seem like they've quit caring about keeping up with the other companies in the marketing and the whole social media world. Like they've got their way of doing things and aren't interested in anything else because it works. I realize this comment may seem negative but I don't mean it that way, it's not an insult just an observation.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

No, that's exactly how I feel about them, too. I think it's spot on

[@JaredTG.]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf Good it's not just me then. I've often wondered if Calvin went somewhere else would they even try to sign another top player

[@lynch42o]

Don’t be afraid to hurt peoples feelings if you’re telling the truth. Aka the truth hurts!

[@michaelr1397]

So every year Innova is number one in sales. They are in major sporting good stores. They make all there money advertising there brand. You are saying they are not relevant. They sale disc allover the world. If anything Innova has shown that a player doesn't sale the disc. Discraft paid Paul lots of money and they are still second . 6 years later. Also I think the funniest thing is how people don't realize more people play disc golf then watch disc golf. So, I would say Innova has shown how it's done . Calvin has more disc in stores around the world then any other player , so he is making money off disc sales.

[@cup_and_cone]

Innova doesn't care because they know we're all still buying their discs...

[@discjunkiesDGT]

Lonestar?

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

F

[@skyesprofessional5ho740]

Good video

[@biggie4310]

Gannon isn't a big disc seller it dosen't make it any better half is bag is old Innova molds, but as a talent is huge for DM.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Yeah I'm curious to see how much more plastic he moves on Discmania, bc I feel like some of that was 1) Prodigy isn't very popular as is and 2) he didn't have any collab series discs with Prodigy, just signature stuff

[@stephenschuessler4847]

​@ArmoryDiscGolf prodigy just started doing colabs this last year and I think the year before. He would likely would have had colab discs if he didn't announce he was breaking contract and leaving the company early.

[@BryceRogers_]

If he starts selling out DM molds, I think it's safe to say Prodigy was the problem

[@stephenschuessler4847]

​@BryceRogers_ how? So a company is a problem just because they aren't as popular as another company? Discmania naturally sells more discs in general at this point. So he obviously will sell more discs at discmania because they have a higher market share. The most comparable situation to this is when Dickerson left prodigy to go to discraft. His tour series was the buzzz. There aren't many metrics I am aware of that show how much impact a player has for selling discs vs what they would normally sell. So did Dickerson cause the buzzz to sell really well? Or is the buzzz just naturally gonna sell well?

[@PirateDiscGolf-lk7ne]

I'm going to disagree on the take of clever marketing by discmania for resigning Niklas, personally I don't think it was a good look at all. Now there are two possible ways that it came about in my way of thinking, either he seriously was exploring other options and no one else presented him with a better offer and he decided to stay with Disc mania after all, or there was never any plan from the beginning for him to leave and he was always going to stay, and the cryptic post that made it sound like he was leaving was simply to generate interest and get the rumor mill going. The problem is from a marketing standpoint, either way it made it look like he was not loyal to the brand and would consider going elsewhere, which undermines the stability and credibility of the brand. Compare that with Paul Ulibarri, who has said flat out, he will never sign with anyone else no matter what, he will be team Discraft for life, they would have to kick him out to get him to leave. So yeah that's not going to generate any rumors and talk when his contract comes up for renewal, but it shows solidarity, dependability, and reliability, as well as confidence in the brand and the product, which I think is a much better look. It shows they are loyal to the brand, not just looking for a paycheck.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I think it's a preference thing in terms of which style you like more because I personally got excited when I heard he was staying. It was like they signed a new free agent almost Apparently Niklas and Jussi have spoken on Finnish podcasts about the whole thing- If I remember correctly, midway through the season he had to offers to go elsewhere and thought that that's what he would do at the end of the season, but then he and discmania worked out a deal and the whole announcement thing was just a prank. With all of the other things included in his contract such as the phenom academy, I tend to think his extension had been decided for a while beforehand

[@micahmilam914]

Yet again Manabu Kajuwma gets swept under the rug when talking about prodigy. I agree that prodigy has been on the decline as far as pro signings the last few years, but even though manabu isn't thought of a lot in the US, that doesn't mean that he's still not a huge name/player overall that prodigy continues to somehow keep.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

As far as I knew he wasn't even up for free agency this offseason. He's not listed on Ultiworld's contracts or even mentioned on Prodigy's own socials as being extended. Was he a FA?

[@richdunn9774]

Guarantee at least one of the Robinson brothers gos with their three buddies to Discmania next season.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I hope not, just because I think it's cool to have two brothers headlining for the same company. Also I'm a Prodigy fan and am holding on hope for them to right the ship lol

[@TherealPapaDogP]

At the 43 second mark, I’m gonna go ahead and say Innova has an F. I’m massively disappointed in the off season. I guess a silver lining would be that they did retain a lot of their experience. That’s a plus. Now I will watch the rest of the video.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

It's a hard time for us Innova fans 😮‍💨

[@TherealPapaDogP]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf right. If I weren’t a fan, I would not have been as harsh. Even Jeff’s Wombat account has been relatively quiet. Last year around this time, they unveiled the initial tour series discs. So, I’m looking forward to that. I’ve been checking the pro shop a lot, and they haven’t re-stocked some of the runs I like. I was hoping to get the Invader in their new soft pro plastic. I don’t why it was left out of that lineup. It’s one of their best putters

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

@@TherealPapaDogP I think in terms of disc production Innova has still been doing alright, though I haven't been keeping as close an eye on it as you. I just want to see big names playing for them again

[@daveslocum5625]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf sorta sucks but I also like it at the same time bc they are just all in on Calvin which is great being a big Calvin fan. I think they can just focus on making him happy and keep making good discs and not have to worry about trying to get some stacked team with big contracts. They also have a team that has soo many years of experience where they feel like they know what they’re doing

[@Titus_337]

I'm sure I'll hear about it for this, but I'll go ahead and say it. I'm more excited about Discmania now than I was 2 years ago, and somehow, I find myself not giving 💩💩 about what MVP is doing. Not sure how that happened?

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

haha I definitely care what MVP is doing, but I'm in that same strange place as you concerning Discmania. For me I think it's just the excitement of "new"

[@jeffkennedy2824]

So, do you only throw Discmania? I find this interesting and would love to hear more about why (I know you said you're not sure why) this happened. Do you not care that much about Eagle and Simon. Do you like Kyle, Gannon, Alden and Gavin better than those two? Do the people that are sponsored with manufacturers influence your love of plastic?

[@Titus_337]

​ @ArmoryDiscGolf The last few years have been a good story for MVP for sure. It's awesome to see what they have done. I guess I have just fallen off the bandwagon. As for Discmania, I'm curious if Kyle could work his way into the comradery that Gavin, Alden, and Gannon have? Effectively, be that forth guy, kind of like Isaac Robinson was. I obviously don't know Kyle, but his temperament seems like it would jive with the other three. This could potentially give him a little more exposure and create a 4 headed monster for Discmania that could be a force both on and off the course.

[@Titus_337]

@@jeffkennedy2824 Well that's the thing, I don't really know why. The 2022 version of Simon is my favorite version. He didn't have a forehand back then and threw some beautiful shots with discs in the neutral to understable side of Discmania's lineup. I have followed his channel religously for the last 5 years. Eagle isn't someone that I follow closely, but it's nothing personal. He has his moments that are fun to watch. To answer your question, no I don't throw only Discmania. In fact, I don't have any Discmania in the bag at the moment. I have a few Mindbenders and Innova made MD3s in my collection, but they aren't currently in the bag. I like supporting good people for sure and from time to time I will buy a disc just to support the athlete. However, I prefer to buy discs that fit well into my style of play, in plastics that are both functional and ergonomic. See my reply above for my answer to Discmania's new team. Feel free to chime in and share your thoughts.

[@TyCampbellTX]

Props on the video editing! That takes some time to do well. Also, only one top 100 mpo player for DD is wild!

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I appreciate that, this one took a while 😅 Yeah I was really surprised at DD as well. They went for the "inch wide, mile deep" strategy haha

[@winstonsmith8082]

TeamMVP

[@ugadawgs-ho8wd]

As someone who who lives close to prodigy hq... man I don't understand what's going on with them. You can't let Gannon go, you just can't

[@daveslocum5625]

Money. Cale talked about it a bunch on tour life saying with the way the sport is going they can’t afford to keep up with those huge contracts so they are basically pivoting to trying to grow the sport more

[@ugadawgs-ho8wd]

@daveslocum5625 ahh gotcha. At least they still have the robinson bros and Aidan Scott etc

[@alkennon9350]

The Robinson boys are walking and a walking is what they’ll do…..

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

😂 I hope not

[@badgerspvcoach]

You factor in FPO moves way too high; if you’re not a top 3 FPO player you’re irrelevant. It’s like giving the same legitimacy to the best WNBA player vs LeBron James.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

It's part of the "tournament performance" perspective much more so than the "marketing" perspective. Unless I'm forgetting someone, I'm pretty sure Kristin is the ONLY FPO player moving plastic

[@badgerspvcoach]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf, it’s all about marketing and selling plastic. That’s why they are sponsoring players. I’m sure Paige, Ohn, Cat and some others have that influence. But beyond that it’s probably pretty small.

[@kingchuckfinley]

@@ArmoryDiscGolfI got a Missy Gannon disc. Gotta support my New Yorkers.

[@tattooedjohnson]

They selling 10 dollar disc's for 24 bucks...or more sometimes. Giving the profits to tour junkies. I never bowled...but been Frisbee golfing since 87. If these kids won that kinda bread...cool. But just giving johny mill because he's Johnny? Nahh you companies want some exposure...sponsor that cash to the tournament and let them all fight for it instead of getting crumbs for beating a 90 person division of worlds best. Let the discraft open pay 100k to winner

[@tattooedjohnson]

Try this...Don't pay tournament chumps and charge 10 bucks a disc! 25 dollar disc's with dudes name on doesn't change flight

[@ThugLifeBitches1]

What are you on about? I don’t think you understand how cheap disc golf is compared to about any other sport as far as the equipment goes. I used to be a bowler and had 8 $200+ bowling balls I carried with me at tournaments, I had 15 more at home same price range. I have spent a few hundred dollars and have a ton of discs

[@michaelr1397]

The thing that is funny is the companies are not paying the players , the people are paying the player by buying a disc with someone's name on it for $25 instead of $17. All the tops of my disc are faded off. So not spending more for a name on my disc.

[@cup_and_cone]

The problem is sometimes manufacturers only do newer runs of some molds in certain plastic for tour series discs...so if you want that plastic and that mold, you gotta pay.

[@cup_and_cone]

​@@michaelr1397You're the guy where every disc in the bag burns over the right, aren't you?

[@michaelr1397]

@@cup_and_cone not sure what Burns over to right means. So you are saying I throw lots of hyzers. Ya, did you know 17 years ago that the hyzer was the throw. Everyone threw hyzer . Easy and accurate. But Paul McBeth I believe changed all that. He was the guy that would just rip the disc straight a head. That is why Innova started making all the 3 disc. Longer straighter. Just some stuff I remember back when I learned.

[@michaelr1397]

Ya i wounder do more people watch disc golf OR not watch disc golf. More people play and dont watch disc golf. That is why marketing is such a big deal. Like Innova still number one in sales. Great marketing. I wonder if companies would grow bigger if they advertised better like Innova. Instead of paying millions of dollars for a player who doesn't generate any money for the company. Discraft is still second to INNOVA.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I don't know if Innova is great at marketing or just riding the wave of being the first mover in the industry. They've been in sporting good stores for years and years and apparently that's where they make their money. But anecdotally, it seems like most people I know have been slowly transitioning to fewer and fewer Innova molds over the last few years, including our customers

[@michaelr1397]

@@ArmoryDiscGolf ya I don't own a store just watch for end of year posting on who's on top. But we're I live nobody even watches tournaments. I ask , Ha you watch that tournament. They no. But if you look at tournament views are they even over 100,000. It looks to me it's all about advertising. I mean MVP just put out 2 million dollars plus 100,000 for Simon. They are never going to get that back on disc sales. And Discraft paying 10 million dollars to Paul and they are still in second on disc sales. They might do better advertising like Innova. O , ya I don't think any of this numbers are real. But fun to throw around lol.

[@ErnoAlias]

​@@ArmoryDiscGolfInnova was the first on the market and they naturally took the position of market leader and whoever gets it usually stays there. Innova's sales have dropped, but this is natural when new brands come in, they get a small piece of the sales that used to go to Innova, but Innova still remains at the top with Discraft behind it. In the future, it is possible that Discraft will overtake Innova or they will be at the same level. It is also good to note that there are usually two dominant brands in the market and a group of smaller brands behind them.

[@loganjitzuboy1065]

Innova will sign gannon when his contracts up amd yall will be buying innova again. Innova is in it for the long run unlike most of you wannabes

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

Not sure who that comment is directed to tbh. That being said, I'd like for Innova to sign Gannon- would've liked for them to sign him when his contract was up this time around, but they missed out on that one

[@Venc1698]

Innova signed potentially the biggest FPO talent on the planet with Ida Emilie Nesse. Lets not forget that discgolf is more than just the MPO field.

[@ThugLifeBitches1]

Who? Bud if her name isn’t Kristin tattar nobody’s watching

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

I mentioned FPO moves for just about every company in this video 👍

[@Venc1698]

You did, and i dont blame you for not knowing about this young talent. But you allso made a video grading every manufacturers offseason moves, i just happened to know about Ida`s move to Innova. Please dont take this as critique, it`s more information from my part. I`ve praised you many times for extensive knowledge about form and the sport in general, and i rate you highly when it comes to discgolf. All i`m saying is keep an eye out for Ida, she`s a pretty special talent at only 15 years old!

[@Venc1698]

@@ThugLifeBitches1 Your comment alone shows that you neither care about or know anything about the FPO field.

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

@@Venc1698 no worries, I'm not an easily offended person. I was just clarifying that I did make a conscious attempt to include FPO coverage in here as well. Thanks for the continued support 👊

[@artem_mma]

100th like lets gooo

[@ArmoryDiscGolf]

👊