Ep. 11: Zion National Park | Utah RV travel free camping boondocking

Join us on our continuing Grand Adventure! In Episode 11 we're in southern Utah for a few days of boondocking and sightseeing, camping on BLM land near Virgin and visiting Zion National Park.
Filmed Nov. 18-21, 2017.
CAMPSITE
- goo.gl/maps/1V...
GET GRAND ADVENTURE STUFF
We've created some fun and quirky merchandise particularly for RV campers, including t-shirts, coffee mugs and more. Sales help to support Grand Adventure to keep bringing you outdoor adventure videos each and every week. Visit teespring.com/... to browse our selection.
USE WHAT WE USE
We've opened a Grand Adventure store on Amazon! www.amazon.com... Unlike other Amazon shops, from RV stuff to our dogs and even photography and videography, every single item you see in our store is hand picked from things we use ourselves in our own Grand Adventures. We've tried it, we've tested it, and we can heartily recommend it. No random stuff or paid product placements.
It costs you no more to shop Amazon with us, but by shopping our store a portion of each sale goes to bringing you more and better Grand Adventure videos! Thank you for clicking through to give us a look!
MUSIC
All music in this episode is sourced from the KZbin Audio Library / audiolibrary
Running Waters Full Band by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
Artist: audionautix.com/
All other music used in this episode is open source.
ABOUT US
Welcome to Grand Adventure, a KZbin channel that focuses on RV-centric outdoor activities including not only of course camping, but also mountain biking, hiking, kayaking, skiing and more, nearly always filmed in stunning 4K.
We're based in Salt Lake City, Utah, and invite you to come along as we travel all around the western U.S. My wife Patricia and I, and our dogs Zoe and Maggie are avid boondockers, so you'll seldom find us in RV parks or even dry campgrounds. Instead, we're usually camped in some of the most remote and beautiful spots that you could ever pull a travel trailer into. And unlike most other RV channels on KZbin, we're not RV dealers or full-timers -- we're weekend warriors just like you!
We'll provide tips and insight on equipping and maintaining your RV, trip planning and travel videos to make your next adventure a grand one indeed! So, subscribe to make sure that you catch every episode, and remember...life is nothing but a Grand Adventure!
CONNECT WITH US
Become one of our Grand Adventurers and subscribe to our KZbin channel!
Our website: GrandAdventure.tv
Like us! / grandadventurerv
Follow us! / grand_adventure_rv
Follow us! / grandadventrv
Find us! www.rvillage.c...
#RV #travel #camping #RVlife #RVliving #Utah #zion #nationalpark #nationalparks #boondocking #sheepbridge #virgin #freecamping #freecampsite

[@maxa.million1991]

Mark, Grand Adventure is the best travel and scenery site I have ever found. One reason for sure is YOU, you are a fantastic commentary, you explain what, where and much more without a bunch of talk talk. Mark you are full of good news and facts it is a pleasure, thank you and keep it up.

[@GrandAdventure]

Wow, Max... What can we possibly say in response to that? Thank you so much! We really appreciate you coming along for the ride, and for your very kind words. ♥️

[@0004612]

I agree! Great commentary and fantastic images, especially the drone footage. Beautiful!

[@triciaetheridge]

I am happy that you featured Zion Nat. Park!!! It can be compared to riding/walking through the bottom of the Grand Canyon. My husband and I have traveled from Georgia to visit National Parks as often as possible. This park is my absolute favorite!!!

[@GrandAdventure]

Happy to show it, Tricia! We just wish that it wasn't so overcrowded, it makes it difficult to enjoy at times.

[@dongordon5154]

So glad to have unlimited internet!! Wife and I will be hitting the road in less than a year for a year or so. Look forward to ignoring all responsibility at home now, while catching up on your videos, making notes and plotting sights to see. I traveled out west in the 70's with an oil company and always said..."I'll Be Back". Casper and Tombstone are on my red list! Love the red hills! You could actually (if you don't already) set up an interactive website via paid subscription for all the data you have gathered. Nothing speaks better than Wisdom...Wisdom only comes,in all aspects, from having been there! Thanks for sharing...you must be proud!!

[@MarcGuido]

You're too kind, Don! You'll have a wonderful trip out West. One great thing about the West is the sheer amount of public land -- BLM, NFS, NPS, etc. There's never a shortage of places where you can boondock away from anyone else -- and I say that as an East Coast ex-pat, so I know very well what it's like back there. As for content, we started with KZbin in October but have since added the website GrandAdventure.tv so that I can mix videos with the occasional blog post, etc. As an Internet content provider in the ski industry since 1994, I believe that the paid content model is a dead end. Our website is advertising supported, but being brand new makes only pennies a day. Our KZbin channel isn't yet monetized because it doesn't yet have sufficient volume. About the only thing we make any money on -- and it's only a couple of hundred per year -- is Amazon links but they're a long way from paying for the thousands of dollars in camera gear, not to mention the many hours it takes to film and edit each video. It doesn't matter, though, for I do this for the fun of it. If it someday generates a revenue stream, so be it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[@HSkyler]

Wow, felt your pain. Doubt I'll be going to Zion. Lived in the middle of Nowhere, NM for 17 years and have no desire to be in the presence of even 1% of all those people. BUT, loved where you boondocked and have it marked my Utah notes. Heartfelt THANK YOU!

[@GrandAdventure]

And a heartfelt thank you right back at ya! I suspect we're of similar mind when it comes to outdoor experiences. We highly recommend that if you wander over this way, check out the Escalante/Boulder area instead to find what you're seeking: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4KZpJeemp2Fa5o

[@jesib7526]

Marc your videos are the best! Great information and beautiful drone footage!

[@GrandAdventure]

You're very sweet, Jesi -- thank you!

[@joyces3550]

Beautiful, amazing video! Love your great camera work and drone views. I sure don't know how you managed to get such awesome footage with all those thousands of people in your way. Lots of extra hard work when in the crowds, thanks for showing us what we are missing. Safe travels Marc.

[@GrandAdventure]

You're very kind, Joyce. Sometimes we cringe at these early episodes, but we appreciate that it's been a learning experience along the way. We appreciate you!

[@brianwofford3831]

Great video, I really enjoyed it. I have visited Zion four times. Awesome!!!

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you Brian!

[@craigcardwell7118]

Your video's always deserve a thumbs up!

[@zanobiashalks2769]

Zion is such a spectacular park. It's sad to see it's so crowded. Though I've been there it's been several years ago and I've been looking forward to a return visit to do some painting there. Couldn't ask for better scenery. I'll have to research for a less crowded time. Hope you find it less crowded next time and get a chance to take that hike. Thanks for making and sharing those great videos. ML, Zanobia

[@GrandAdventure]

Thanks so much for watching, and commenting! Actually, check out our episode 29 kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXOZdWCno7B-kNE which has a great section of Zion National Park that's little visited, relatively speaking. And we're also doing an episode on nearby Snow Canyon State Park later this month. It too has spectacular scenery, so we hope that you check that out as well.

[@Wendel22]

Great Video. And thanks for your input on Zion National Park about the crowds.

[@GrandAdventure]

Wendy Lee thank you!

[@dougewing1571]

I was in northern Idaho way back in 1983.. We never checked out Zion.. I had a chance to live out west back then.. I should have. But I loved the video.. thanks

[@GrandAdventure]

Thanks so much Doug! I was 39 when we moved west, and I'm still kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

[@lauraweiss7875]

I can’t stand complaints about crowds at National Parks. It’s like folks expect the parks to be their own private refuges. There are plenty of beautiful places (National Forest land especially) that are pretty empty. I focus on going to those places when I want solitude. But when I visit National Parks, I expect and enjoy the crowds. In fact, I have met some pretty awesome people in the those crowds, and I’m always impressed to see hundreds of people peacefully enjoying nature together.

[@AndrewGoodCamera]

Found your tips on BLM camping near Zion valuable. Thank you for sharing and best of luck with your channel.

[@GrandAdventure]

Denae & Andrew Thank you! Happy to have helped.

[@momsvancrazyjourney4443]

Thank you for showcasing my neck of the desert. Love Sheep's Bridge area. Sadly, Zion seems to get more crowded every year. During all this Covid madness I was able to spend one beautiful evening in Springdale and Zion with minimal crowding. But the next morning was a different story. It was the beginning of the Memorial weekend and they had to close the canyon by 11 am. Like you, I am torn on how to resolve this

[@GrandAdventure]

Lucky you to have enjoyed Springdale and Zion in those conditions! Sad to say this, but I think that the only way to solve the issue is a permit lottery. And I hate permit lotteries.

[@RollinRagu]

Zion is special to us, as I am sure it is for most that visit it! It was one of the first places we visited that left us all staring at each other with a "what am I seeing?" kind of a stare. On our next visit, we will reference this video for a nice boondocking spot. Thanks for the video and information.

[@GrandAdventure]

Those spots get very busy as you might expect, Tony, but they're beautiful and spacious, with easy access to Zion and the surroundings.

[@daveb.8692]

I carry my dog’s vaccination records everywhere I go now days so that I can get her in a kennel as needed. Much better than leaving her home for weeks or in the trailer for hours, which shortens our exploring. Places like Zion the inside temps can get quite high even with the AC running on those 110 deg. days. Would hate for a power failure while away. Records go straight to the glove box on vet day. Always ready!

[@GrandAdventure]

Yep Dave, I keep them all in PDF form in a folder on my phone.

[@evopwrmods]

Imagine Zion National Park in 25 to even 50 years from now....Can You ? There will most likely be a 2 year waiting list to go visit and then the [place will be packed elbow to elbow with touristas. Nope not for me, we have ruined this world of ours. Sad sad sad.....I will probably never get to visit some of these places as I have an aversion to crowds. I would rather stay away from the masses of people. Your camping spot was calm peaceful and appeared to be a perfect place to just sit and meditate. What could be better than that ? Seeing all these people just messes up my mind as to how we humans continue to NOT get it. Sorry to be that cranky old guy, but you do make some great videos and I am glad that you have been able to witness some of these wondrous places. Far few inner city kids and such; will ever even get to. thnxx again for the effort and great results !

[@GrandAdventure]

We can't disagree, Quinton. We understand the purpose of National Parks, which introduce some of our most beautiful wild places to the masses who might not gain that experience otherwise. But like you, we prefer to be off on our own in equally beautiful places that are relatively unknown to the masses. That hardly makes either of us cranky old guys.

[@laytonhaese7888]

One thing to consider... especially for those willing to boondock... there are a lot of Parks and significant tourist destinations available in this wonderful... continent ( US & Canada) timing may be the key in many locations and that may take research and planning. The other times, the out of the way, not so well known and not-so-touristy places may be the choice that makes the most sense! at least to keep your sanity and expectations in check... Just a thought! Oh and I would also like to comment on your narrative, I agree with the others that have mentioned the professionalism in your narration... Well done Sir!

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you Layton! Personally, we prefer avoiding the parks for the more natural experience outside of a developed park. Sometimes, though, the unique topography inside of the park simply isn't replicated elsewhere. Your comments about timing and selecting lesser-known parks are well advised; however, as Utahns ourselves we regret that Zion had truly gotten overcrowded year-round to the point that it's now like Yosemite. It's a most unfortunate consequence of Zion's spectacular scenery and its proximity to Vegas and LA.

[@laytonhaese7888]

@@GrandAdventure I'm from Cali and I found the bad weather in the winter in the middle of the week left the place to just a few of us however that may limit one's access to many places depending on that person's tolerance... point well taken though!

[@mikeramsay5964]

I really enjoy your narrative style and the video is fantastic. Thanks

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you so much, Mike!

[@aulii11]

I'm a relatively new subscriber and love your videos and your insights - keep 'em coming!

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you so much! You're only on Ep. 11...trust me, we get better at this. 😂

[@maxa.million1991]

I'll second that Mark is one of the best. I think the BEST.

[@rvingmontanezway103]

Wowoow Man This And Amazing video Thanks for sharing can’t wait to be there hopefully we will see you guys on the road one day 👍👍

[@GrandAdventure]

Appreciate it! Like I mentioned via other channels, whenever you're in the neighborhood just let me know.

[@rvingmontanezway103]

Grand Adventure thanks a lot for that I sure will let you know... Keep making this nice videos 👍👍

[@richardarthur5994]

Great video !

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you Richard! This was one of our earliest video efforts, and we like to think that we've gotten much better at them in the years since. 😉

[@dpstitches]

Just found your channel and love your campground area video! You really captured the peace I am always looking for when I go camping. Thanks also for sharing your Zion experience. It is beautiful, but I will definitely try to go on a day when the buses are running.

[@GrandAdventure]

dpstitches Thank you! Glad to have you aboard.

[@sk-wx1cf]

Great and informative video. One additional important note for this area: after a rain, many of the unpaved roads, such as Sheep Bridge, Smithsonian Butte, Gooseberry Mesa, etc, are nearly impassable because of slick clay and deep mud. Also by the way, there are a great many bike and hiking trails in all of those areas that you mentioned outside of the Park, and the Kolob Terrace area of the Park is much less crowded. Take care and I look forward to watching many more of your videos!

[@laughingram7287]

My wife and I just watched a cool video driving through Zion on Highway 9. So we thought....”Hey let’s go there and camp”. I searched your videos, knowing that surely you’ve been there and done that. After watching, it was kind of a downer, but you were there during Thanksgiving break. We were in Tahoe the week before Thanksgiving break and it was super nice. However, on Saturday before it got crowded real fast. I’m going to check out your other video Virgin Utah(?) I did like your campsite....you always find the good ones! Thanks Marc.

[@GrandAdventure]

Thanks Ram! Zion has gotten crazy busy year-round now. We've pretty much written it off for ourselves.

[@johnbrinkley3122]

Great job.

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you John!

[@rvamericayall]

Sorry you didn’t get to hike Angel’s Landing on this trip. Zion and all of the Utah National Parks have been on our bucketlist for some time. We’ll definitely try to visit during the off season and away from holidays. Great video, Mark. Thanks for sharing your adventures. We really enjoy your videos.

[@GrandAdventure]

+RV Texas Y'all Appreciate it Tom! Be sure to let me know when you're in our 'hood.

[@sandratessem9980]

Sad Zion is so crowded. We hiked all over Zion in 1991 when we lived in Las Vegas. I don't think I will return. Great drone video.

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you Sandra! Clearly we share your disappointment.

[@tomaustin4526]

Awesome 👏 🚌😊❤️😎thanks

[@teamnash55]

WOW - Zion was mobbed (crowded) in December? Thanks for posting the video - great video

[@GrandAdventure]

+Richard Nash Thank you! Late November not December, but still...

[@ronrowan4828]

The only way I can see to solve the problem of cars obstructing the road is to extend the days for "shuttle only" travel. I do know that shuttles are available in Springdale that go to the park's entrance. However I'm not sure about the parking situation in Springdale. I don't mind using the shuttle and that's all we used the last time I was there except to drive through to the eastern entrance on our way to Bryce and Coral Pink Sand Dunes. It was April and we stayed in a group campground.

[@GrandAdventure]

Ron, AFAIK the parking situation in Springdale is less than optimal. And on the shuttle days we found cars simply parked anywhere and anywhere all the way from the park entrance to the Zion Canyon Road. I think that the optimal solution would be to build a large park & ride in the desert outside of Springdale and allow only shuttles beyond the park entrance, in conjunction with limiting daily visitors. I think that it's unfortunate that it's come to that, but it's the reality of the situation.

[@DownsizingMakesCents]

Hey Marc, the crowds looked crazy, what do you think would be the best strategy to avoid crowds there.

[@GrandAdventure]

Seriously, hit the trail at the crack of dawn, or go somewhere else. Try the Kolob Terrace area of the park, shown in our later "Virgin, Utah" episode. Zion has just gotten crazy busy to the point that we actively avoid the place now.

[@cindyhaddock4087]

Always the BEST info! So very detailed...I’m afraid it will be terribly crowded by the time we get there! And I cant stand the crowds...is it better to go later in the afternoon? Thanks again for taking us along!👍🏻

[@GrandAdventure]

Zion is terribly crowded all year round now. It feels so Dusneyesque to me, but it is incredibly beautiful. To avoid crowds it's best to show up frightfully early, like at 7 am.

[@tclarke971]

What month do you think would be a good time to go to Zion park. I'm​ thinking about going to Utah and some other states from December to March. Great video. Cheers.

[@GrandAdventure]

tclarke971 thank you! Weather-wise my preference would be October or April, but that would be the preference for many others, too. Your December-March timeframe would be the least crowded, and you might even get lucky and see Zion with a bit of snow!

[@TM-bd7nf]

Maybe in the future you can consider posting the GPS coordinates of the places you are boondocking at. Maybe in the description.

[@GrandAdventure]

There's actually a Google Maps pin linked in the video description, Mike. Click on that and you get lat/lon, if you prefer.

[@travelingmertonandsue]

Yikes with that amount of people at Zion National Park it looks like trying to shove 50 lb of potatoes into a 20 lb bag, holy mackerel. We were hoping to go there in January do you think it will be that crowded then too? We hope not. Do you think we could get our Class C, finicky Francesca down that road okay? Great video! Merton😎👌✌

[@GrandAdventure]

You'd have no issue with Sheep Bridge Road but it's now boondocking in designated sites only. January will be a whole lot better, but Zion is crazy busy any time of year. We've pretty much written the place off.

[@tompelham4648]

Where do these people come from !?!?! Most incredible scenery!! Thanks

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you Tom. One big issue with Zion is not only the people who travel from all over the world to see the 5 National Parks in Utah, but also its proximity to the Vegas area.

[@tompelham4648]

Could the days be numbered for the Vegas area? For lack of water in the future!

[@GrandAdventure]

@@tompelham4648 Vegas and even LA depend on the Colorado River reservoirs. Both have issues.

[@shore51]

I’ve been to all of those national parks and I agree. An incredibly simple remedy, add more parking, there is no shortage of space. Don’t overcharge or limit visitation. Ridiculous concept

[@GrandAdventure]

Actually, in Zion parking is indeed an issue, because you're hemmed into such a narrow canyon. That's why they've built parking in Springville, which has only created a 90-minute line to board the shuttle buses.

[@bitchimightbe3773]

Have any of you been to Zion in August? How hot do the nights get?

[@GrandAdventure]

Forget about it. While there are hotter areas in southern Utah in August, it's not by much. Spring or fall are the best times in our opinion.

[@jaysuper8255]

Great video, even without being able to hike much in the park. One of the reasons we did the Teton's and Yellowstone mid May into June (3 weeks) this past spring. To beat the crowds. By the time we left the park June 13th, the park roads / parking lots were jammed full by 9am till about 4 in the afternoon. We planned to do the "big 5" in Utah next spring, but because of family issues I couldn't commit to making any reservations. I know to make reservations to many of the Utah National Park one needs to do so at least 6 months out. I wanted to mix in some dry camping too on BLM lands. Last year in our Alaska trip we really liked the dry camping we did on BLM and US Forest Service areas. ? Doing the big 5, do you think mid to early April into May is a good time to go. I would like to spend about a week in each of the big 5. (Arches, Canyonlands, Capital Reef, Bryce and Zion). Just like yourself, I hate crowds...That is why being now retired we have more flexibility to go in the shoulder seasons. Were trying to do as many national parks before the powers in charge either sell them or down-size your national park lands. Actually worried of the new administration closing up some of the BLM lands. What were the temps like at night for late November in the high country?

[@GrandAdventure]

Thanks for watching, Jay! As far as timing goes, late April into May is prime time for southern Utah's parks. Once summer arrives there are a lot of European visitors and fewer Americans who are avoiding the heat. Those American visitors start returning in droves in late August and early September. As far as crowding goes, one thing that places like Grand Teton and Yellowstone have going for them that Zion and say, Bryce Canyon don't, is sheer size. As I mention in my lament near the end of the video, Zion is a five mile-long canyon, so it's really hemmed in. In Canyonlands, by contrast, if you have a 4x4 and know how to use it, it's really easy to get away from everybody in places like the Maze District. I personally tend to avoid the National Parks as a rule, because I can often find equally spectacular spots in the middle of nowhere (witness our Episode 1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/f52VmHqhjdZrnMU as exhibit A), but Canyonlands is an exception for me because of it's amazingly large footprint. In fact, just last night we were hatching plans for a technical canyoneering trip this spring to a slot canyon just outside the boundaries of the Maze District. That will make for a fun upcoming episode of Grand Adventure. And to your point, just so there's no misinformation, the current administration isn't closing up any BLM lands. Quite to the contrary, if anything recent decisions actually free up restrictions on some public lands. In the recently downsized National Monuments, the land is still under BLM control just as it was prior to the creation of these National Monuments under the previous administration -- it just doesn't have the National Monument designation. I'm not making any political statement one way or the other, it's just that there's a lot of misinformation floating around on both sides around this issue; no, the state isn't gaining control of these lands, and no, this federal public land is still accessible to all. As far as overnight temps in late November go, they vary widely because Utah's "Big 5" range widely in elevation. In Virgin, our campsite was relatively low at ~3,800 feet where temps dipped into the high 20s to high 30s during our visit. Daytime highs were somewhat above normal in the high 60s to low 70s with an intense sun even at this time of year that made it feel much warmer. Places like Bryce, at nearly 8,000 feet, are much chillier locales in the shoulder seasons. Again, I appreciate you watching, hope you're subscribed as a Grand Adventurer, and look forward to sharing our own future Grand Adventures with you!

[@rhondacartee4302]

Just discovered your videos and they are awesome! Have camped a lot but just getting into wild camping. I plan to spend a lot of time this summer and fall exploring Southern Utah. My concern is leaving my camper while I go off exploring. How concerned should I be about this? Definitely gonna check out the site on Gooseberry Mesa! I travel by myself and would hate to come back and find my new camper gone or things destroyed. I have camped a lot but dispersed camping is new to me. Appreciate your advise. Thanks, Rhonda

[@GrandAdventure]

Rhonda, welcome! So glad you found us! As for site security, we touch on it a bit in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWiYYp6dac-bqtU and may dedicate an entire future episode to the subject, as we get asked about it so frequently. However, the short answer is that aside from taking a couple of basic precautions, we really don't concern ourselves too much with it, and we've never had an issue.

[@wolferine6466]

Can Zion be accessed (hiked to) from any of these locations without having to use the “main entrance” of the park?

[@GrandAdventure]

Yes, you can hike into Zion Canyon from Kolob Terrace Road via the West Rim Trail: www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/terrace.cfm

[@SNOTT8417]

Is it crowded in October? Thanks

[@GrandAdventure]

Extremely. October is peak season. Winter would be the least crowded, but even then it's getting busier all of the time.

[@maxa.million1991]

Where can we get a T-shirt ??

[@GrandAdventure]

We'd love to put you in one, Max! Go to teespring.com/stores/GrandAdventure

[@retiredandrollin]

Loved the video sub'd and gave you that thumbs up. Just ran across your channel so sorry for the untimely question. At the beginning of your video you mentioned about a tough to reach place with a large rig. Were you talking about the spot you were at; the spot you posted on google maps? What road was that you mentioned, the tongue twister?

[@GrandAdventure]

Thank you folks, thrilled that you found us! No worries, happy to help. The difficult road was to another spot that we tried first (Guacamole Mesa), but gave up on. Sheep Bridge Road is graded and a piece of cake, and the tongue-twister.

[@bertkelly7650]

Note to self, let Mark do the site seeing for me, I'll stay 2k miles away. ; )

[@GrandAdventure]

LOL! On this trip, Bert, that would've been a good M.O.

[@josephpessotti3876]

How the heck do you spell guacamole?

[@GrandAdventure]

Nailed it!

[@TheJcrandazzo]

This is the way it is in America these days. Too many people and not enough parks and parking and especially not enough campsites. Then you have the reservation systems. The same people reserve a year in advance over and over and no room for travelers.

[@GrandAdventure]

All too true, Joseph. This is why personally, we prefer public lands outside of the National Parks: far fewer people, extensive boondocking, and sights that are the equal to any found in the Parks. In fact, we're planning an upcoming episode "Utah: Beyond the National Parks" just because so many travelers think of the Mighty Five National Parks -- and little else -- when they think of southern Utah. Tonight's new episode, too, will focus on the Uinta Mountains, another part of the state that's little known to folks other than Utahans themselves. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@TheJcrandazzo]

Good job..love your videos thx

[@OverlandingOurWay]

They cleaned up the traffic now right? People are just idiots. Permits required?

[@OverlandingOurWay]

I feel your frustration. I probably would have just clipped a few mirrors driving in and left a note letting them know to go back to DMV parking and respect class. 😂

[@GrandAdventure]

I'm sure that the permitting and shuttles help, but now I've heard it's a 2+ hour wait for a shuttle. We haven't been back.

[@stevewainwright3344]

While this is nice, but I'm sorry to be a downer. I'm 69 and have camped and rv'ed my whole life. It was one thing to tell your friends and relatives about these great places. But now because of the internet, and KZbin . People are telling the world about them because of their need for attention. I worked at Yellowstone in 67'. I stood on the wooden sidewalks of Jackson hole when the vegitation was short then. And I could see the whole town square. I was the only one on the square that day. Now it's Las Vegas there. Saloons, bars, t-shirts shops, and bumper to bumper traffic. Same thing in Sedona, Az. You younger people don't realize whats going to happen with what your doing. Enjoy it while you can. If you come back 5 to 10 years from now. You'll be surounded by a hundered other campers. If you can't even find a spot. Just like this author had to look at three different places to find a decent spot. I realize it's too late to stop it, so i'm glad I got to see all this before it was ruined by population growth, and the thousands of people on KZbin, Blogs, and websites telling the world where these places are instead of letting them find out and be surprised themselves.

[@GrandAdventure]

Appreciate your comments, Steve, especially as I'm apparently included in "you younger people" as I'm only about 17 years younger than you. ;) However, I do take issue with your attributed "need for attention," for that's a pretty broad brush to paint with. In my case KZbin is a creative outlet for my video work that I can combine with my love of camping and the outdoors that has spanned four decades, not to fulfill a need for attention. While your label may possibly apply to some, I think you need to look at each individual circumstance before casting such generalizations. With respect to the crowding we experienced on this visit, that was solely in the National Park, and certainly not at our campsite. With all due respect, the popularity of Zion has little to do with KZbin or even the Internet at large. Rather, it has to do with being a narrow five mile-long canyon that profoundly hems people in, which is within easy striking distance of population centers like Las Vegas and southern California. It also has to do with the ease, and reduced cost with which we can now travel long distances across the U.S., or even around the world. It's rather pointless to simply rail against change -- the only constant we can be sure of *is* change. It's how we manage that change that makes all the difference, and certainly the National Park Service is going to need to effectively manage change caused by increased visitation if they are going to preserve the experience for all who visit.

[@stevewainwright3344]

What I was referring to, If you would read more carefully is. Before the internet people just told their friends and neighbors about places they went. Now because of the internet people are telling the world. So those places you like so much won't be so nice when you go back in a few years and you won't be able to find a spot that you won't be surrounded by other RVs. And I don't see a correlation in editing video and telling everyone how wonderful the place your staying in is. IE looking for attention. Don't feel bad practically everyone below 40 must be needing attention since they're all doing selfies. They can't take a pic without being in it. Which says hey look at me, me, me, me. Common sense says if you take a pic of something you were obviously there and don't need to be in the pic. And no I'm not talking about you in this aspect. Did you knowtice in the drone part of your video that there were 5 to 10 other RVs in it. There use to be only one in that kind of shot. What i'm saying is because you and thoundsands of others are telling the world where these places are that you want beable to stay there 5 to 10 yrs from now, because there will be 50 others already there. I wasn't talking about Zion I was talking about sheep bridge rd. Even you said the first place you stopped had a bunch of RVs already there. And 17 years of age has nothing to do with the 40 years of camping and RVing I've got on you. Like I said "It's too late to stop it now." So you better enjoy it while you can. Because it's going to end before your ready for it to. You'll pul into a boondocking place you stayed in 5 years ago and you were the only one there. But now there's 30 others within 50 ft of you.

[@aulii11]

@@stevewainwright3344 You have to take into consideration the exponential growth of human population on the planet. It is inevitable that there will be more people who want to see these spectacular places, and now matter how they learn of the existence of these places, there will be increasingly more individuals who make the trip. I'm about to turn 72 and remember places I could go and not see other humans that are now teeming with people. I'm not happy about it, but don't see how it will change in the near term.