Graphene Filtration | A revolution in Desalination technology!

[@Lesics]

Links to their work - www.nature.com/articles/nnano.2017.21#:~:text=Abstract,of%20common%20salts4%2C6. , science.sciencemag.org/content/343/6172/752

[@VerifyTheTruth]

What Is The Drawback To Solar Pumped Laser/Lensing Boiler Distillation Systems? I Am Relatively Sure That They Could Be Immediately Implemented With An Extremely High Benefit To Cost Ratio Using Currently Existing Technologies. It Solves Both The Pumping And The Desalination Processes Into One Efficient And Inexpensive Solution That Can Be Implemented Anywhere That There Is Sunlight, While Simultaneously Generating Energy Instead Of Requiring It.

[@VerifyTheTruth]

I Have Conceptualized Several Systems That Could Be Easily Tested With Minimal Effort And Negligible Expense. All Of The Mathematical Specifications Are Variably Dependent Upon Materials And Scale. It Would Only Take A Few Days With The Right People, Materials, And Equipment To Prove It's Value At Scale.

[@VerifyTheTruth]

There Are Millions Of People Who Need The Water Right Now, Not By 2025.

[@vitordelima]

@@VerifyTheTruth Some toxic materials also evaporate with water, but this can be filtered after you distillate. Maybe there is some affordable process to separate water vapor from other substances while it's still a gas, similar to what is used in petrol refineries.

[@VerifyTheTruth]

@@vitordelima Absolutely, Multi-Chamber Heat And Pressure Differentials To The Distillates, Much Like Crude Refineries. The Technologies, Equipment, And Infrastructure Already Exists For Immediate Large Scale Implementation Of Basic Solar Boiler Distillery Desalination. Concentrated Sunlight Can Boil Or Combust Water Instantaneously. With The Right Specifications, Mostly Any Present Chemicals Or Biological Contaminants Can Be Seperated, Concentrated, And/Or Neutralized, As With A Waste Water Treatment System. Permanent Silver Filtration Could Render The Distilled Water Drinkable After Remineralization Or It Could Be Utilized For Recharging Aquifers, Food Production, And Cash Crops. The Pumping Could Operate As A Solar Primed Siphon With Unidirectional Check Valves, Containment Towers, And Drop Points. The Salt Water Can Be Moved Uphill With Head Pressure Through Roman Concrete Or Rarefaction Tempered Quartz Glass Piping To Be Processed Down Line, Or Desalinated On Site And Pipelined Through Steel. The Value Of The Water Would Likely Far Exceed Oil Long-Term In Numberous Areas And Applications. Excess Power Generated By The Solar Boilers, Once The System Is Primed, Can Be Harnessed With Hydraulically Distributed Hydro-Pneumatic Pistons And/Or With Turbines. Apparently The Technology Also Exists To Combust Salt Water. This Is Just One Highly Generalized Solution Out Of Many Combinations Of Existing Tech.

[@JohnTrustworthy]

Graphene can do everything except leave the laboratory.

[@jasonmorris9330]

there are actually graphene products out there right now. You just don't know it contains graphene

[@sriharshacv7760]

@@jasonmorris9330 such as ...

[@jasonmorris9330]

@@sriharshacv7760 seeing as how I work for a company that is implementing graphene in their products, let's just say it's in the weapons industry already

[@nickolaymiltenov]

@@jasonmorris9330 But usually we don't use weapon systems in our everyday lives...😁

[@MegaIkkuh]

@@nickolaymiltenov the statement was "it can't leave the laboratory" and to be fair, it left the laboratory, like most other new inventions, straight into weapons...

[@bohanxu6125]

"I have a probl" "graphene" "but I haven't told you th" "GRRRAAAAAAPHEEEEENNNE"

[@robinsss]

graphene : it cures all

[@astrogirl7616]

😂😂😂😂😂 totally me And I feel like I got the cure everybody.. Nanotechbology and grapheeeene

[@InsaneNuYawka]

😂

[@JohnDobak]

It's true. Now if only someone could master the manufacture and shaping of graphene.

[@JohnTrustworthy]

Graphene can do everything except leave the laboratory.

[@Pyedr]

The unqualified use of "miraculous" raises my skepticism hackles.

[@freddiereadie30]

It's a clever way of saying it's a trade secret.

[@jeremysimmons8864]

@@freddiereadie30 OR a "clever" way of overselling the feasibility or advantage of a technology.

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

honestly I really dont see how they can neatly stacked GO sludge from an exfoliation process. crosslinked epoxy is FKING HUGE so how the fk can you get such tiny spaces between the graphene oxide. im thinking they just compositized the GO with a certain percentage of epoxy which still allows it to be permeable with water then painted/pressed/rolled the resulting mix if it fking works into nice sheets for RO membranes.

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

@@freddiereadie30 its not their paper literally shows how the membrane looks it FKING SUCKS and isnt practical in the slightest. Their active surface area is in the friggin micrometers and for it to be practical that needs to be in METERS!!

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

@@unAgorist what about you I could say the same.

[@janami-dharmam]

The paper is more than 3 years old; the authors focus on the tunable aspect of the gaphene membranes.

[@robinsss]

what paper?

[@Lesics]

We were in touch with this research team. They have collaborated with a UK based company, LifeSaver to convert this research into a product. Maybe in a few years we can expect it to hit the market.

[@frankh.3849]

Graphene is the way of the future. Between graphene, Neutrinovoltaic, and CO2 bio fuel conversion using solar energy and radio waves the world will forever be changed

[@janami-dharmam]

@@frankh.3849 We need to have a solution now! CO2 biofuel conversion is carried out by plants and is not the most efficient.

[@frankh.3849]

@@janami-dharmam it can be done now with solar energy and EMF in the radio spectrum. They have all ready built prototypes. They have also figured out a simple way to do it electrochemical using solar energy with the highest reported efficiency. Though the method using radio waves is the cheapest and leaves a zero carbon footprint.

[@Ralphgtx280]

you'll still have to pump there will still be osmotic pressure this would just be a better RO membrane ...

[@lamebubblesflysohigh]

Yea but if it is better enough, it may become viable on large scale. Maximizing the amount of water flowing through the filtration medium while minimizing the required energy is the key.

[@Ralphgtx280]

@@lamebubblesflysohigh it being tuneable may be an advantage but really the amount of energy is is a function of the osmotic pressure + the mechanical losses. The osmotic pressure is unchanged and there is no indication of addressing the mechanical losses. Its like pumping water uphill , correctly sizing the pipe and making it as straight as possible with as smooth walls as possible will minimise mechanical losses but you will never be able to get water up a hill with less energy than the added gravitational potential energy.

[@purplepotatoes9255]

@@Ralphgtx280 if you were to put the filtrated water below the salt water, would osmosis come into play? Like, if the graphene sheets were too be put above vats, instead of right next to them?

[@victorhopper6774]

@@Ralphgtx280 trees think different.

[@jokers7890]

@@purplepotatoes9255 Good idea, but no, its not enough pressure, and that IS the problem....RO takes very large amounts of pressure to work (which requires ALOT of energy to create this pressure). The mass of water used in RO does not create this high pressure. And let's say we use the entire pressure of a deep ocean.....this would work, but the problem then is how do you get the clean water back up to the surface? This would also use the same amount of large energy. The point is that energy conservation laws apply to all forces, including pressure. You cannot overcome the energy differential with pressure.....the energy to break the bonds is the same either way. This has to do with the profound properties of water itself.....so the same reasons that make water the source of all life, is the same reasons why it is difficult to get clean water. This is also why the earth's ecosystem is very complex in cleaning water. Final conclusion: Humanity cannot overcome the scarcity of energy until it overcomes the entire capitalist system. Only socialism as a path to communism will allow humanity to have a surplus of energy. There literaly is no scarcity of energy in the universe, it is the capitalist system that creates a scarcity and forces humanity to rely on self-destructive toxic fossil fuels for energy. Go humans! Good luck.

[@SamChemfen]

As a chemist, I really liked you included the coordinated water molecules on dissolved ions. Very nice video by the way!

[@swastikbiswas8293]

Same here.. most of the textbooks misses the solvation sphere in their explanation

[@swastikbiswas8293]

@Александр Лазарев activated carbon already exists for water filtration.. doped graphene is the next step. Even if it can't filter water, it can preferentially intercalate ions which reduces salinity too

[@armwrestlersanta]

As a non chemist I liked ur comment

[@kousueki7024]

as a non kemist, im just excited to use a future low cost graphene water filter to filter a high ppm water source..

[@armwrestlersanta]

@@kousueki7024 chemis

[@QuestionEverythingButWHY]

“What is now proved was once only imagined.” -William Blake

[@burnerjack01]

"There's a sucker born every minute."- PT Barnum

[@robinsss]

@@burnerjack01 no tricks here

[@Hgulix62]

no shit

[@DUCKDUCKGOISMUCHBETTER]

@@burnerjack01 "There's a scientifically illiterate fool born every second." - Me -

[@jeremysimmons8864]

The value provided for the salt rejection of salt in conventional RO membranes does not represent the state of the art. For example, DOW Filmtec model SW30HRLE-400i is rated for a minimum of 99.65% (cited from its data sheet). However the video attributes only 90-95% to conventional RO membranes. The authors of the paper cited in the video found the the GO membrane could provide 97% salt rejection, which does not surpass state-of-the-art high rejection membranes. In the Nature paper cited by the video, it seems the authors are more excited about the tunability of the GO membranes which may open up opportunities in other filtration applications.

[@davidmende3409]

Donno mate - the drastically lowered energy requirements kinda seem helpful - but maybe thats just me.

[@alanwatts8239]

I think it is safe to say you would still get more use out of graphene filtration.

[@jeremysimmons8864]

@@davidmende3409 You should check out other comments. The "lower energy requirements" has been discussed thoroughly and the conclusion seems to be that that is a false. I don't even think the video, or the scientific papers this was based on, claim that the GO membranes have lower energy requirements for filtration.

[@jeremysimmons8864]

@@alanwatts8239 why? It's not obvious to me why you would make that conclusion. What are the mechanisms that prevent us from getting use out of either one? What is the difference between the two that creates a difference in their longevity?

[@seanrossouw9936]

Agreed, that stood out to me too. They also do not list the standard solution this rejection is measured on, or explain WHY the energy requirement is lower. Osmotic pressure must still be overcome.

[@markplain2555]

I have a simple question: won't the salt clog up the entry point and prevent water going through?

[@MottyGlix]

In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.

[@markplain2555]

@@MottyGlix correct - that I know - can you do it here with this material,p? I always knew about (what you said) and to me it was the critical question that first needs to be answered before we can seriously consider this material as a filter.

[@markplain2555]

@Inotamira Orani I have actually been involved in water & waste water treatment. I can tell you the devil is in the detail. What often seems technically obvious often is practically impossible. In summary.... Let's see if someone gets this right.

[@tomatrix7525]

Mark yep. Generally these filters must be replaced or cleaned. They last for about 24hours of use. They slowly loose efficiency over that period as more and more salt clogs the entry. They are usually cleaned upon reaching 30% efficiency in resoect to thr original non clogged 100%. As I said, this typically occurs after 24hours of use, assuming typical salt concentrations etc...

[@zachass3724]

The video starting at 5:00 explains your question.

[@kahlilstoltzfus6517]

I remember learning that ions dissolve via ion dipole interactions (intermolecular force). Thus there is no sharing of electrons and not a covalent bond. This should be fact checked. (4:06)

[@Wilewee]

It's clearly an error saying the salt-to-water molecules are covalent. As you say, it's an ion-dipole interaction that binds them together. I dont't know about the strength of the bond, but I'm sure it's stronger than water to water molecule one.

[@luka7383]

It's a bit more complicated then that. When water (or any other ligand) complexes with an ion, there is actually bond formation, It's not just electrostatic interactions. You only learn about the ion-dipole interactions because they are simple physical forces with which we can easily explain and calculate attraction between ions en dipoles. Metal-water coördinated complexes are easily formed however I don't think anion complexes are easily formed. Nitrate, sulfate, chloride - water interactions are mostly ion dipole interactions i think.

[@kahlilstoltzfus6517]

@@luka7383 This is very informative. Thank you for this response!

[@halasimov1362]

Because maybe, you're gonna be the one that saves me And after all, you're my van der waals

[@cadaver76]

All good and well, but what about de brine thats left behind. no matter what u use, your alway left with brine. you cant dump is back in the sea, that would increase the local salt level and kill the marine life there.

[@franckd5395]

Exactly! This is the most problematic point with desalination. Graphene does nothing to improve the possible ecological disaster that this technology could prove to be.

[@specialopsdave]

Properly planned sites should have the output brine mixed with so much seawater that it's non-toxic by the time it leaves the pipe, and we won't drive ocean salinity up over time because that's not how the water cycle works. It's cheapo bottom-dollar sites that would dump high concentrations straight in the ocean that we need to worry about

[@SnoopyDoofie]

So basically you get clean water while clogging up your graphene filter with dried salt. Sounds like they invented an environmentally unfriendly disposable filter to clog up landfills.

[@vsiegel]

This can not work, and it is easy to show: Osmosis creates a water level difference as shown. If you could get the water from the higher side down to the lower side through a graphene oxide filter, without applying at least the osmotic pressure, you could build a perpetuum mobile from it. Using a GO membrane is normal reverse osmosis, there is no way around it.

[@PeterPopovicsaStrucc]

Correct, in an ideal, 100% efficient system at least the osmotic energy must be added to the solution to achieve desalination. The rest of loss is pump efficiency, membrane architecture and the energy of dropped concentrate (might be recovered).

[@iridium9512]

Perhaps they meant to say GO has lower resistance to water flow which increases efficiency, but you definitely can't get something from nothing.

[@luca920]

I don't think you can bypass osmotic pressure this easily, entropy is a hard to beat sonofagun. You'd still need pumps, otherwise this would break the second law of thermodynamics.

[@charlesbray8109]

- gravity -

[@Silverfirefly1]

The term he used was capillary action, so some way to influence the pressure difference is definately required. Having that action in the filter be its most efficient is about good design and surface area. Entropy also gets its reward in the production of these exotic materials.

[@Samuel_Morchin]

A thermal differential, perhaps. Have the salt water in a solar pool, and cool pipes on the other side. Hot water molecules from the saltwater side try to balance the thermal differential, traveling from one side of the filter to the other.

[@0ctatr0n]

Not real until they do the classic cooking show trick of "And here's one I prepared earlier"

[@bimmjim]

I am a materials engineer. The possibilities of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.

[@dosmastrify]

I am not a meterials engineer. The possibility of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.

[@JC-yb3zb]

@@dosmastrify I am not a troll. The possibility of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.

[@dosmastrify]

@@JC-yb3zb you just won the game

[@JC-yb3zb]

@@dosmastrify I'll be here all week.

[@ОлегС-ь7и]

But why do molecules go only in one direction through a graphene filter? Does osmose afraid graphen?

[@deadspeedv]

One major small problem this video does not address at all. Graphene Oxide is currently like $250 per gram. It is currently way too expensive to even approach replacing reverse osmosis purely to save on power.

[@DUCKDUCKGOISMUCHBETTER]

The cost is coming down rapidly.

[@abisundaram1247]

Graphene stepping in another usage

[@rewalos5077]

Thank you so much for teaching me this. I have a question though: do we have a way of handling the brine that is produced from the salt molecules left over on the other side?

[@NaturallyCreeAtiveDOTca]

Save it for winter, road salt.

[@isiTsotsi]

At 4:06 there is a mistake. Salt to water is not a covalent bond. It's an ionic bond which is way weaker than covalent bonds. It is still stronger than the hydrogen bonds between two water molecules though.

[@BenterKoux]

Since Salt has no valence electrons in the outer shells for covalent bonds if I remember correctly

[@Lyf4rMusic]

I love New Inventions like these !! Desalination is the future as more and more population grows and ground water resources won't be enough for all of us. Technologies like these really will help in decreasing the per unit cost of filtering it and making it available for masses.

[@Lyf4rMusic]

@@thealienrobotanthropologist Yeah, good luck convincing that to Billions of population around the world. So, it's better to prepare for worst-case scenario when we have the time :)

[@renatoigmed]

@@thealienrobotanthropologist I am one of those who will never have children. if it were up to me no one would have it for the next 30 or 40 years.

[@robinsss]

@@thealienrobotanthropologist ''''''''The future is learning to not have more kids that you can afford to take care of.'''''' wrong the future is using logic and advanced technology to conquer our problems and continuing living life without having to worry about whether we have enough resources

[@simplespecial3313]

​@@robinsss he is sterile

[@CountingStars333]

Populations arent growing except Africa.

[@McToasted]

This presentation is very misleading. Since this is a proof of concept (lab-scale), it should be compared with other stateof-the-art lab-scale RO membranes (>98 - 99% monovalent salt rejection). This graphene oxide technology is not new as well and it does not remove the need for high pressure pumps for reverese osmosis. With the same feed stream (sea water, brine etc...) you will still need about the same pressure (50-80 bar) to achieve separation no matter what kinda state-of-the-art membranes you are using. The graphene oxide sheets just reduce the membrane resistance, allowing higher permeability for the same membrane area.

[@richleyden6839]

Thanks for your comment. I was going to makes a similar comment about the fundamental, inescapable energy requirement, defined by thermodyamics. The static osmotic pressure of sea water is equivalent to 900 ft of water. Real systems need more to over come losses due to flow, increases in salt concentration in feed, and losses in pressured brine rejection. Technology advances can reduces these losses and are highly desireable. Misleadingly implying the engery barrier will go away is not helpful

[@AwninGod]

Where'd ya get the 14% water scarcity number.... sounds suspect.

[@Blue_Azure101]

Kind of like Covid deaths right?

[@joefromravenna]

I worked in a lab with a need of ultra pure water. Salts were the easy problem to fix. Colloidal silica was the SOB in that world. It has a nasty habit of fouling up deionizing and or filtration media and if it gets through that it fouls up lab machines. I first encountered it when washing windows at my restaurant job 25 years ago when i was in college. The s*** was caked on the window and vinegar wouldn’t touch it. Colloidal silica binds to surfaces and can’t be cleaned off. So the question is: “How does this system react to colloidal silica dispersed in most water?”

[@ix-Xafra]

We need silica for collagen formation, don't we?

[@joefromravenna]

@@ix-Xafra yes we do. And different municipal water supplies have different levels. It’s necessary in biology but often rather damaging in industrial settings.

[@ix-Xafra]

@@joefromravenna is silica abrasive when in colloidal solution?

[@matterisnotsolid8295]

This is the most amazing computer generated voice I have ever heard.

[@ChrisTopher-jv6ex]

it's computer generated?

[@matterisnotsolid8295]

@@ChrisTopher-jv6ex Yes. Can't you tell?

[@superwassou]

How can you tell? 🤔 Sounds real to me.

[@jammapcb]

its real

[@matterisnotsolid8295]

@@jammapcb yes as I said it is a real computer generated voice

[@nightmisterio]

Pressure? Why not put the water on top? Won't that make sufficient pressure? How much pressure are we talking about?

[@TheWorldBelow360]

Nano engineering is so unbelievably profound. Not many amateurs can tune the really expensive equipment. Yet.

[@skyvenrazgriz8226]

Doesnt matter what you use as membran, the problem is the blocking of the membran and bio growth. These are the real elements make it inefficent, while in a indsturial complex you can clean it and have personal that know what they are doing, who shall do these tasks in a unit for a privat household? Yeah exactly the practical solution are throw away exchangeable units most likely. Also while the membran material might change, this is nothing new, we know about this process for years

[@white_shadow_123]

Well, if it is cheap enough, It can be used for short time and then replaced. But for some reason I am skeptical about this. Until I see a plant that is using this, it's just a theory.

[@FelixHalim]

In 1:46, instead of using pump, why not use gravity? So, put the salt water above at higher ground and use gravity as pressure through the membrane?

[@handyjayes1]

That's my question too. Gravity would be more than enough to pull it through and the same pump that pumps water in the tank in the video is the same pump for a vertical tank. Think we're being bamboozled with bullshit by the graphene group...🤣😉👍

[@Hossak]

When it is delivering drinking water on a profitable full scale commercial plant, give me a call.

[@ptbot3294]

Yes, but remember, once you hear it on the news, its already too late.....(buy now!)

[@IdiocracyIsAProphecy]

at 5:46 it is claimed 44% of cost comes from electricity, but electricity prices vary wildly depending on location. seems like bad math. where i live electricity is 5.5c/KWh, but i have a buddy that pays 22c/KWh. This is a 4x difference due only to location.

[@gigglelingelf]

The US airforce already has a patent on this.

[@635574]

They arent actually using the pure graphene thats a unicorn to make and is only needed for computing.

[@brozbro]

I just got back from the future. Housing developments along the coast are up in arms over the dumping of high concentrates of saline into sewer systems.

[@1sunstyle]

I am gangster and will use this to make water for my crew.

[@alicebonnet4607]

Wish my gang leader gave our crew clean water.

[@louisegogel7973]

Sunlight and vapor collection seems to be the most accessible way to desalinate water.

[@soumitratewari483]

Sir please a video on how graphene is manufactured. Both in laborotary and Industry.

[@jamesmooney8933]

That is the problem

[@menotu000]

Since Graphene is such a wonder material at the nano scale, I wonder what other elements could be tuned in this way to achieve similar seemingly miraculous use cases. Perhaps a room temp superconductor could be made from a common conductive element in a nano-structure... etc.

[@GoxXxLB]

It would be good to put link to the paper discussing the new technology. DOI or something connecting discovery to the authors. Really awesome video.

[@Pikminiman]

+

[@Thedamped]

the paper is now linked in a pinned comment

[@buddingscientist170]

nice explanation

[@claudiokazzi271]

5:07 how do we make sure that no water molecules move the other way around. After all, didn't we say that the water molecules move naturally to the side where we have more salt to balance the concentration?

[@joelpivetta4421]

Naturally the molecules want to move to try and equilibrate the pressures. However some water molecules still would but the important thing is that there would be more moving in the desired direction with creates a net movement of water to the clean side.

[@yay-cat]

Gravity maybe? also he said that the water molecules move by capillary action so maybe it’ll work like a straw?

[@RbladerOS]

@@joelpivetta4421 This is a circular argument though, isn't it? Could it be that the graphene has a relatively lower Helmholtz free energy barrier (assuming volume and temperature remain more or less constant in the system) compared to the 'normal' filter? This would still require the same amount of energy in the end, right? Perhaps the energy requirement difference stems from the pace at which desalination should occur? In either case the desalinated state should be about equally entropically unfavourable. It doesn't make sense to me that the difference arises because it takes less energy for the water molecules to be desolvated, as at the other side of the filter this same amount of energy is spent again for resolvation/reforming the hydrogen bonds. Except that the overall reduced energy barrier would accelerate the process. Maybe anti-fouling properties of the graphene membrane also differ from traditional filtration membranes? Blegh my thermodynamics is rusty.

[@hyric8927]

In desal plants, the slatless water is pumped away. Clear water has to be touching the membrane for it to have a chance to migrate to the salty side.

[@RbladerOS]

@@yay-cat Good guesses but I don't think that would explain it :). Gravity barely plays a role at the molecular scale. The thermal motion of molecules starts increasingly outweighing gravity as objects get smaller; thermal motion starts to become dominant at around 1 micron. Capillary action could work to the point where the pores are filled, but thereafter the capillary forces would act to keep the water inside so it would cancel out (although it may lower the total energy barriers to be traversed somehow).

[@MEJOVA]

I love the way you explain the concepts.

[@jeremysimmons8864]

I'm interested in how the first law of thermodynamics fits in to the equation. Reverse osmosis requires so much power because it takes that much power to separate the water, not because pump just magically consume energy. The pumps are doing the required work of separating the water. Where is the exchange of energy coming from in the case of GO filtration? If it's not in the filtration process, it must be in the manufacturing process of the GO "filter". The filtration process must, also, must not be a continuous process. I'm genuinely curious about what is being left out of the message. I understand the need to communicate to a lay audience, but I'd hate for physics to be swept under the rug as part of a PR campaign.

[@feynstein1004]

Exactly what I was wondering too. I feel like there's a catch here somewhere.

[@fredorpaul]

Looks like capillary forces are used to over come osmotic pressure, but yea I'm curious about the numbers, and the practical implementation, as well.

[@justuseodysee7348]

@@fredorpaul but if you want to pull water out of the capillaries, you have to overcome capillary forces as well. There's no free cake

[@enjerth78]

I'm wondering if the "magical" function of graphene-based desalination is just that it's a more efficiently designed porous material, in that it's designed at the atomic level for efficiency to pass a greater volume of water given a particular pressure. It's designed to fit this intended purpose from the bottom up. As it's explained in the video, without adding pressure to the system, I'd think it would just be a more efficient gate at drawing water towards the salt. And I thought they got the nature of the relationship between water and graphene backwards... it's not hydrophilic, it's hydrophibic.

[@specialopsdave]

The inherent resistance of the membrane, not the separation, is the place where savings are had. Because running pure water through it would still take energy, despite the lack of separation. That's the energy in question here.

[@dsdy1205]

You know what's the real kicker of this? You can do the same thing with ethanol molecules in the water. That means if you run some cheap vodka through graphene oxide, you get basically water on one side, and moonshine on the other!

[@jaredgarbo3679]

Noted.

[@suharijabon1869]

God using sun to desalination for entire the world😀😀

[@Aufenthalt]

Sorry but...a bit of energy has to be used otherwise we could violate the second principle of thermodynamics. My question is where will be used energy with graphene membranes. It was stressed very well about the RO systems but speaking of graphene it says it is a natural process which cannot be as said ...so where will be used energy in the process? My suspect is that they work exactly like RO only more efficient.

[@truestopguardatruestop164]

Maybe they say that the energy comes from the dis level of the water: the salt one is up and then goes down with the graphene filter

[@katzda]

Whats wrong with using gravity instead of air pressure? Hmm I guess water would still have to be pumped somewhere else anyway.

[@sschmachtel8963]

why on earth do you talk about covalent bonds if you dont know what it means.... ions dont form covalent bonds with water. This makes me really think you are trying to sell something without knowing what you are talking about. And even if the majority might be right, I still really dont trust in anything you say... because there is loads of details that are important... and how on earth would I know that you really know enough about it if you even dont know the difference in between a covalent bond and electrostatic interaction

[@seriousbuissness8061]

I don't think they said that. The concept sounds plausible, the question imo is if it's feasible.

[@sirtajali5841]

Who else love this Chanel

[@markusw9455]

Why in households? Use the tap water and let the water provider do the desalination? Or where in the developped world do you use salt water in your homes directly?!?

[@vojtator]

Some machines need demineralized water to prevent a buildup of limescale. Also, it's better to water the plants with desalinated water to prevent the salt build up. You can not drink the demi water tho, so provider will provide only one type of water - the potable one.

[@carltontay]

Is there a way to configure it so that electricity could be produced in the process?

[@KnutNukem]

No, because this is the principle of Osmotic power, but in reverse. The concentration gradient isn't working towards producing freshwater but saltwater. So energy has to be *invested* to make this work. There are plans of using Osmotic power to create electricity at locations where rivers flow into the sea. Take a look at the link (Wikipedia): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power

[@carltontay]

@@KnutNukem Thank you, the article was very interesting.

[@S3b1Videos]

Capillary force is not "passive" as was stated in the video. Every movement requires energy; i.e. a difference in potential energy or concentration.

[@Elrog3]

Passive only means it is a spontaneous process. It doesn't mean there was no energy involved. There is no contradiction there.

[@jeremysimmons8864]

I think I see what your seeing. My guess is that the potential energy is being placed into the manufacturing process and these GO membranes have limited use or have to be "recharged" in some way. The swelling must have to do with the energy of the system. OR the video conveniently neglects to mention that the pumping that is attributed to the conventional RO process is also required for GO desalination process.

[@S3b1Videos]

@@jeremysimmons8864 It's that there's water next to a hydrophile (GO) while there's no water on the other side. You could look at it as a chemical reaction: As long as there's no product (clean water), water will happily permeate due to osmosis (the energy being the potential difference between the right and left side). However, permeation rate should slow down until it reaches equilibrium at which point water has to be removed from the right side, or more "educt" is added to the left. At least that's my best theory that's coherent with physics.

[@jeremysimmons8864]

@@S3b1Videos Interesting. I definitely need to read the researchers paper to gain some insight on the chemical aspect. I guess my biggest concern is with how the process is maintained and how much energy is required as compared to the conventional polymer membrane based RO.

[@williamstolley2165]

This just came into my "feed" today, exactly one year after this video was released. I wonder if any progress was made. My concern about graphene isn't it's properties, but the ability to make graphene on an industrial scale. In theory, it has many potential uses. But in practice, it appears to be a very difficult medium to use in a mechanical device. I think graphene, like fusion, will always be one of those "wonder" concepts that prove more interesting in theory than they do in practice.

[@infosyphongaming4309]

Instead of epoxy to hold graphine together due to swelling Could you just make graphine layers closer to compensate for swelling eliminating the epoxy step?

[@daniellee6912]

did you watch the video?

[@issandiayetccsa7549]

A lot of technologies are now being experienced by researchers but the transition lab-industry is still the biggest challenge.

[@jokers7890]

not really.....the problem is capitalism, not research.

[@akeiai]

@@jokers7890 no, its not capitalism, its the viability of it when it comes to mass producing it. More often than not, research results show great success, but the way it is created makes it pretty unviable/expensive when it comes to making it available to all people

[@handyjayes1]

Am I the only one wondering why the 'obvious' set up for the first tank wasn't mentioned in the first two minutes, which is, - up end the tank and poor in the salt water from the top. It's not using anymore electricity than the method getting the salt water into the tank in the video to start with. Gravity will pull the water through.. Am I missing something?

[@lorenwilson8128]

It takes about 500-1000 psi to push the water through the membrane. Some of this force is required to overcome friction and some is required to push the water molecules away from the salt ions. The second part is going to be required regardless of the type of filter.

[@specialopsdave]

Won't work without hundreds of feet of water pressure

[@vitorsaramago104]

It would’’ be great if you put subtituls in English

[@nia6849]

The technology is here and cheap.

[@clintonjones955]

I used 'passive evaporation' ... pyramid shaped plexiglass atop a ring float with edge vats to catch the freshwater I let several of these act as buoys in a sea lagoon (California) and collected several gallons per day (sunny) I can imagine a 'graphene' blanket or 'fullerenes' built in a nano 3d printer to the perfect 'mole' density (h2o) with aluminum oxide 'supersaturate' so that the electrical plasma could break the dipole and compress the two gasses in a blimp where the hydrogen could provide energy to the drone blades...what do you think? (with an h20 precipitant ...humidity condenser)

[@WeedyFlash]

Couldn't you just build the plant below the ocean level and use gravity to power the water through the graphene?

[@HansLemurson]

Isn't this just an improved graphene-based Reverse Osmosis membrane? Why are you saying this is a replacement for RO? Water will still naturally flow through a semi-permeable membrane towards brine unless a counter-pressure is applied. Doesn't matter whether your membrane is Graphene Oxide or a Ceramic Zeolite.

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

this material is still WAY too infeasible because you would have to build an avogadro number of such layers to make a practical part. since each layers would with cross section to the material and the number of layers to get a sheet of RO membrane is ungodly!! large and it has to have no imperfections. i'll make some ascii at the bottom to show it where I = grahene oxide and V = epoxy. VIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVIIVII the water molecules pass perpendicularly through this membrane and hence the number of layers needed for a practical part is in the order of 10^23 layers!!!!

[@yogi4319]

Can this technology applied in an industrial scale? I don't see the scenario of sea water delivered to household gadgets for desalination.

[@UltimatePwnageNL]

What is the difference in energy use? Does it need pumping at all, or can it be gravity fed? Can the filter be submerged or would that cause osmosis?

[@getartsywithyogita8291]

I think they will need pumps. But the amount of pumps or say power will be less.

[@thulyblu5486]

at 5:30 it just says "higher energy requirement" for RO and "lower energy requirement" for GO

[@UltimatePwnageNL]

@@thulyblu5486 Exactly, it'd be nice to know a rough estimate. 20%? 2x? 10x? Or is it a technology that the government has been trying to keep secret for years, because it desalinates AND generates electricity? :P (I'm going to guess 20%-80% as the realistic number)

[@I-PixALbI4-I]

Remove only salts? What about purification?

[@Elrog3]

Removing salts is purification. Non-salts don't dissolve in water.

[@wolfbear7]

I've been waiting for this to be perfected. It has been aong time coming.

[@killedamilx]

I like this video, but it bothers me every time they say "salt atoms". These are molecules not atoms. I'm surprised that someone purporting to be scientific would get this wrong.

[@timopheim5479]

Na (sodium) is on the atomic table. What are things on the atomic table called?

[@killedamilx]

@@timopheim5479 yes, but Na(Sodium) is not salt. Salt (the kind you put on food at least) is NaCl (Sodium Chloride), which is a molecule

[@killedamilx]

@@timopheim5479 Na ≠ salt; salt = NaCl. What's the atomic number of NaCl?

[@SoWe1]

sounds cool, but what about longevity? will salt molecules clog the membranes?

[@MottyGlix]

In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.

[@freddiereadie30]

I think the graphene oxide membrane is so good in removing salt, you have to replace it every 30 seconds otherwise the flow of water will stop.

[@NARKISDUDE]

Yes, in a high capacity plant though, there are many valves/pipes so some of them go through maintenance while others work.

[@kunjukunjunil1481]

"Salt atoms" ? "Water atoms" ? You mean water molecules and salt molecules ?

[@felipereigosa96]

Salt molecules is wrong too. It's salt ions. If you're going to nitpick...

[@kunjukunjunil1481]

@@felipereigosa96 www.usgs.gov/media/images/water-molecules-and-their-interaction-salt-molecules

[@felipereigosa96]

@@kunjukunjunil1481 So what? You're just saving face. You know perfectly well that a single charged atom is not a molecule and salts are made of crystals with ionic bonds (not covalent bonds). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecule

[@robinsss]

@@felipereigosa96 the graphene blocks molecules of salt there is no such thing as an atom of salt it's naturally a compound of two types of atoms

[@gabedarrett1301]

They should put these on lifeboats when the technology becomes practical

[@getsideways7257]

For that there are forward osmosis kits.

[@trinitytwo14992]

It would be good for new plants, the cost to retrofit existing plants would probably be prohibitive. Still this is excellent, keep going with the graphite wonders!

[@heinrichvonschnellfahrer7895]

Water atoms? Salt atoms? xD

[@sandeepvk]

so much water is wasted in the RO filter today, that its criminal wastage. Hope this technology comes soon

[@mrhyperbolic7455]

Commercial RO uses power. Household RO in 99% of cases does NOT use a pump, just the natural pressure from your supply line. Usually around 40-60 PSI. Also why compare household RO to desalination of seawater? Most people I know have fresh water coming into the home. Sorry but this video leaves out key components of water purification. Thumbs down...

[@roberthart9886]

How does the water rejection compare to conventional thin film membranes AND when will drop in replacement graphene RO membranes be available. In the real world where my iSpring 7 with booster pump, my municipal tap is a very respectable 103ppm/TDS, but product water is only ~ @13-16 ppm?TDS+ ~ 88%,, where I would expect 95%+

[@roberth3094]

High equipment costs , high energy usage vs NO WATER .... Hmmm , Let me think about that..... Costs will go up , Not down . Build now .

[@varunprakash6207]

Graphene is used to filter water but it is not used in mass production because it is Graphite The Earth crust more number minerals are low in the World because digging minerals day by day When Graphite oxide react with the water and many filter uses to drink the water

[@smb123211]

How many "major breakthroughs" are needed before the product is actually used? The bottleneck is production, cost and efficiency. Yes, we can make wondrous things in labs but that manufacturing and using them in the real world is another story. Fortunately our system of publicly funded research and private markets almost alwaysproduces usable (and cheap) products. I recall just a few years ago the genome project was called a dud because few positives had emerged. Now something comes along every day. In fact, the time required before a new technology is widely adapted continues to fall. Tapes, Vinyl records, CDs, solid state, streaming...each iteration took far less time to adopt then the previous one and I imagine this will be the case with graphene.

[@gamalkhedr7317]

The information given about RO, the current world first desalination technology , is erroneous . “The equipment cost make it difficult to construct more desalination plants” , “quantity of pure water is smaller” . In Saudi Arabia and in Israel RO plants of hundreds of thousands cubic meter per day are producing high quality drinking water without “ enormous amount of energy” While the video here promises arrival of graphème technology to the kitchen. What about the pumping energy required for high rates of permeation ? What about salt permeation dragged by water stream and pushed by the gradient of osmotic pressure ? What about the fouling of graphene membrane surface ? What about the equipment cost required for production as compared to similar capacity of RO plants ? What about the efficiency of salt rejection of sea water or Arabian Gulf water ?

[@silverfoenix]

Such a Swell filter...

[@marknoirot1491]

The "salt to water bonds" are NOT COVALENT. They are ion - dipole interactions and are rapidly interchanged in the aqueous environment ( vid at 4 min 6 sec). In addition, your animations show only 4 water molecules interacting with the Na+ ions ... and the anion ... Cl- ... or whatever it may be. The coordination number will be higher (6 to 7 water molecules)

[@Unbreaded452]

Water shortage really? Says who? High amount of energy to filter water? Really? Again where are you coming up with this? The filter fabrication is the only efficiency added to this process... Desalination is not done exclusively with filter technology as described. However RO as described in your video is the second most efficient method... Cool graphics.

[@jmsjms2735]

So, this is garbage scieece at its best. This magic graphrne obviously beats any snake oil hands down. Not only does it cancel osmotic pressure and with it both 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics. It also yields 97% water recovery without ever needing to worry about these pesky solubility index thingies that limit sea water RO membrane recovery to a mere 40%. Otherwise, an excellent video. Greta would applaud you.

[@ladderssnakes1755]

So if a graphene lined sphere is lowered into an appropriate salt water depth WILL THERE BE FRESH WATER SEEPING IN? The only ENERGY cost is winching up the sphere with fresh water inside, deep water pressure is free?!

[@skyvenrazgriz8226]

Oh and btw no to burst your bubble with reality, but the effenicy (as shown in this video) of cleanig water isnt the same as safing energy, it just the grade of filtration. Filtrating better due to smaller or more optimized pores. So the quality of the water at the end is more pure. It doesnt give any indication if ou have to use more/less or equal force to get there (energy consumption). Also while super pure water is realy intersting for certain industrial aplications like for powerplants with total evaporarion cycle, the human body doesnt need pure water a few salt ions are ok, it just have to reach the perminable level for drinking water, if water shortage is the problem here.

[@Nosirrbro]

He said in the video that the filtration operates through capillary action, which of course doesn’t require any external energy source.

[@citizenfriendly3845]

What about filtering out chemicals and pollutens

[@FeldwebelWolfenstool]

..if desalination by R-O is so expensive, how can Israel sell treated saltwater for one-half the price per cubic meter that we have to pay in our city of 100,000+ that pumps very clean water right out of Lake Superior, Canada?

[@hypercomms2001]

Completely deionised water could be very dangerous for human consumption ....

[@obsoletepowercorrupts]

Osmosis (or reverse osmosis) can be useful but it is not everyting and still takes energy. If you truly have simply water vs water with salt, the reverse osmosis wastes the chlorine that would have been gathered from electrolysis on the salt water _(if you are using energy anyway, as for example a combination of geothermal, solar and hydroelectric)._ That chlorine can be used to kill germs and has other useful properties as a halide _(and can change a pH and so on)._ Then there is sodium which is also useful. Plus you are not dumping a bunch of salt.

[@vivaelgato4541]

What happens if small amounts of Graphene particles are ingested over the course of oh let's say roughly 40 or so years? Heck let's up the ante. What if a hypothetical subject ingested small microscopic amounts of graphene in their drinking/bath water for 30 aught years and are about 6 months pregnant?

[@TheTwick]

Say! That voice isn’t “Irish” !

[@collinsonwong4920]

If there is no copyright of distilling the sea water into a drinking water by using the Saudi Arabia "desalination" filtering method. Please allow me to take the opportunity to become the registered copyright holder. Let me apply for that if that is possible...? Please comment back. Thanks 👍

[@Krebzonide]

The household thing doesn't really make sense. Are they gunna start pumping salt water through the pipes and require people to buy one of these stations to get water?

[@kennedy67951]

Disappointing this video was to watch. So much information was purposely left out. I can't stand the Dream State Theories. If your going to tell a Story, at least make it Captivating. A thumbs down from.

[@jdogsenior5886]

Great video, I actually work doing research on graphene oxide, and let me tell you, it is not cheap. Single laminate layers only a few mils in thickness are several thousand dollars and graphene is famously difficult to work with as it sticks to everything making it very very messy. Although it is an amazing structure with so many possibilities.

[@34sarahwest]

How toxic is it in this particular application? To us drinking the water I mean.

[@0926001]

why dont you use THE POWER OF GRAVITY TO FILTER and also use THE SUN TO ELEVATE THE LIQUID

[@ronliebermann]

This is a fake story. Desalination filters have been around for sixty years. They are made from a plastic pipe filled with long stands of polyester fiber. I can’t remember, but I think that they were made by Dow Chemical.

[@harperwelch5147]

Sorry. Apparently I need a background course in molecular science to understand what you are saying here. Flying through complex problems using technical language is not a great way to spread knowledge. My guess is widespread information on this concept will help this solution become a reality.

[@PierceyeG]

Can anyone explain why it would be preferable to use an expensive, difficult to replace filter, instead of evaporation? Seems a lot like making a simple thing complicated for the sake of profit. I mean, evaporative distillation is hardly a genius level enterprise when hillbillies can figure it out.