Why is Black Rock Shooter only an A-Rank?

[@GrayRavenRadio]

There's no doubt that the Black Rock Shooter collab was made with a lot of care. But do you agree with the decision to make her A-Rank? Or would you have preferred her to be an S-Rank, meta character?

[@user-ashborn16]

Honestly, given that the current A ranks are still really fucking awesome, the fact that she is as much of a good unit as she is makes it absolutely worth it. From my personal experience n other games, if you make a collab character meta, without giving the playerbase guarantees of a possible rerun, it can quickly become a source of headache for people that dropped later in the game, so i think that not making her meta defining was the right call right here.

[@troy2223]

Collab characters don't have to be meta, as long as they're easily accessible then i'm good.

[@Ronin03]

I agree, as long as they are worthwhile and all the right areas then being meta defining is just the cherry on top.

[@FunZenCh]

Im okay with it as long it doesn't get aloy treatment in genshin.... 😢

[@hieple4164]

@@FunZenCh How does she play? When I first saw her, I was surprised that she's got Amber body proprotion and not more grown up ones like Raiden.

[@salsabillahputri5858]

People complaining BRS being A rank because they thought it doesn't respect BRS like Nier treatment, make it looks like Kuro understimate BRS as an old franchise. The thing is, Kuro back then didn't know about Collabs standards and goes like usual other devs; making multiple collab chars as a team and put them on S rank Now they learn the point of Collabs to make everyone happy, attracts new player to try collabs event and to serve old player with canon story of two franchise being together. So, make BRS as A rank character are the best choice, while new players can easily got BRS and can enjoy playing her sick movesets, old player can take a rest from Lamia patch and Kuro respect them by didn't make BRS patch as a money-sucking patch

[@agunkorea2995]

Then, kuro slapped those with every reference in her moveset, voice, cutscene come from ova, anime 2012, figurine, even hana kana as OG VA. This very rare by others company when do collabs 😂

[@salsabillahputri5858]

Yeaah bruh Kuro goes totally crazy with all references. And people still dissapointed with BRS being A rank? Talking about gambling addicts; even slightly generousity can flabbergasted them

[@kulonone3374]

nice, now time to rile up kuro for that 3rd nier rerun

[@salsabillahputri5858]

Naahh man Nier won't rerun anymore, time to let it go

[@lolegaia]

True dat, if every single collab is ssr character then how tf can the majority experience the joy of gaming. It's not like getting triple SSS can make you a good player yeah. A is enough and i love it.

[@Ahriela]

Asuka was an A-rank in Honkai Impact 3rd, so there's a precedent for this kinda treatment. BRS being an A-rank too is perfect, especially for fans of whatever she's been in before.

[@Sercotani]

yep, it got me into the game for a bit, but that's enough for me to invest some time into the game and enjoy it. And that's honestly the important part. Of course a small subset of hardcore players who also want strong collab units (not a huge number) will be somewhat upset, but everyone else is happy. That's good!

[@Ahriela]

@@Sercotani You're a new player? Welcome! I hope you have fun following the story and playing the characters. ^^ PGR is definitely one of the best ARPGs available.

[@saimyintmyat9373]

​@@AhrielaPull only for her Beyond S rank. No fragments in shop For purchasable with skulls I think.

[@SolarFlorad]

Thank you for makeing another wonderful video! It's always a pleasure to see whatever is coming from the Radio.

[@GrayRavenRadio]

Thank you so much 🥰

[@KyoSaito_00]

Man I'm just happy we get a collab AND it's BRS. I think making her an A Rank is just to make it easier to get rather than an S Rank. Over all, gonna wait patiently til the collab hits global. Hot take, I liked the twin tail Alpha coating more 😭

[@AI7428]

My theory is the same as yours: A-rank Collab to prevent powercreeping Lee and making people who missed her feel left behind. Also, a new Fire Tank is next patch, so new players can have Watanabe to complete 2/3 of their fire team.

[@Kimchivender]

50k BCs is a steep price for SSS+ but that's still cheaper than reaching SSS for a S rank unit. Just the fact that BRS is easy to initially obtain and forget about if you dont want to utilize her on other game modes doesn't rub me the wrong way. I'll be maxing her out since it's not every day BRS gets a collab with... Anything, even if I wasn't the biggest fan when it initially released. Looking forward to the patch and that sweet CW Alpha skin, cheers for the video guys (｀_´)ゞ

[@blackbun130]

To be fair, BRS Dawn Fall got a number of collabs, it's just that this is the first time in probs a decade, that we see OG BRS content again. I was scared that the collab announcement was gonna be yet another Dawn Fall collab (especially since it thematically fits more into the PGR setting) but thank God it aint

[@theballance9748]

Deadmaster integrated and become PGR perma boss is possible due to, BRS arent big IP like Nier, and this BRS is BRS OG that originated from Huke Artwork and Supercell Miku song so it's not that expensive and harder compared to Square Enix Nier IP

[@Advent10II7]

This is why I got into Punishing: Gray Raven after I learned this collab was coming! You can just tell the love put into this! Although was a bit disappointed at first that she was only A-rank, I’ve warmed up to it with the reasons explained. Now time to save for the next few months so I can draw out her full power.

[@NIMMGAMINGTV]

It sucks not having a Nier banner anymore but I cant wait for this one to come on global

[@diafenix]

The Gray Ravens site is looking better than ever. I see you guys uploaded a Story Summary. And that's how all Shikikan dreams come true. Thank you!

[@technicalleon]

Thanks for the info! I don't know much about BRS the anime but looking forward to an accessible collab. I can't believe I missed out on the Nier collab and there won't be a way for me to get them now... Really like the Crimson Weave coating but I'm not sure if I'm willing to spend that much on a coating. I guess we'll see.

[@TheFlopster69]

Never heard of this game and I’m tempted to get it now just to get BRS

[@sleepeyart]

great video as always, can't wait for this collaboration to come to global, gonna be a ton of fun! Also can't wait to try that boss fight, from your previous video it seems very challenging. Love towards you guys as always!

[@glacierfox5237]

I hope I didn’t miss this if it game to global as I just started

[@guardiansoulblade2673]

It’s in August you’ll be able to play it.

[@bobanfrombangladesh]

White coating feels like reference to psp game, where main antagonist was creator of protagonist and with white hair and clothes

[@Ichengo42]

I just got into BRS to prepare for this... I am so upset that I didn't know about it sooner but I'm glad I can at least kinda prepare

[@user-he8vy4tc8j]

Thanks to her being A rank I can get her to SSS+ just have to skip every gen2 starting from balter(im a diehard fan of brs)

[@HSMJose7]

You don't have to skip that many characters you only need 10 or 11 pulls i think to get an A rank to SSS+ that's 2 banners you have to skip

[@zeromailss]

50k BC is a lot, you can get 3 S rank character Do whatever you want with your resource but IMHO skipping only Hyperreal and get her to SSS and Sig would make more sense unless you can pay for monthly until she drop which in that case you might not have to skip anyone. Gen 2 DPS is just too powerful and fun to skip for a character that is coming over a year later. I love BRS too and I'm buying monthly until she arrive but I don't know if I will get her to SSS+. Honestly if it cost too much I might just buy more of her actual figurine, which is also why I will not get her outfit, her basic is good enough and it cost way too much for her outfit and Alpha's (I have basic BRS, Insane BRS, Deadmaster and WRS, I need a few more to complete my set). Btw 170 RC which is her and alpha's outfit cost allow you to buy almost 5.5 monthly which would give you about 17k extra BC so that's that

[@user-he8vy4tc8j]

@@zeromailss ye ive thought of that but I already have her sss in cn so i this time I want her to be sss+, im quite confident in my patience plus her banner is like standard banner where 60 pull is guaranteed 6* so im still gonna get my 3 6*

[@saimyintmyat9373]

​@@zeromailssI'm skipping Hyperreal for CW.

[@felixW94]

@@user-he8vy4tc8j How does BRS at SSS + sig compare to Hyperreal with sig at s / ss ?

[@xolove0024]

3:00 Ayla starts crying in the corner 🥺😅 about BRS, i think i just gonna pull her once as collection purpose like my NieR team, bcs i cant SSS them with signature too! 😭

[@HSMJose7]

If you just want to collect her you don't even need to pull her, you get her for free by playing the event

[@xolove0024]

@@HSMJose7 good then, so i can get her freely without spending BC ^^ but hopefully the event is not too grindy like RdF 😭

[@HSMJose7]

@@xolove0024 nah you can get her just for 10 mins after starting playing the event mini game that gives you her shards

[@NathanTruby]

All the stars make me feel like I'm swinging a Keyblade

[@guardiansoulblade2673]

Donald fails to heal you,as usual.

[@keithmcdonald787]

Her victory animation, her idle animation, the special effects, the blue (I love blue!!!) Everything about Crimson Weave’s Black Star coating is perfection👌. Without a doubt a level 5 on the Scale of Cool.

[@watercat9475]

cant wait for this collab to hit global, ive gotta save up for her weapon after i get Lamia (assuming her weapon is limited time as well) Unless i get a random hyperreal lee she will tide me over until fire lucia... since i have a few teams i gotta invest in more

[@jobi7651]

I'm gonna start this game like now so that I have the stuff prepared so I can just put everything into her banner and max her out. Gonna be worth it.

[@plentyoflulu4694]

The video that made me download pgr. Cannot wait

[@GrayRavenRadio]

She's only a few patches away in Global now! Perfect time to start. Hope you enjoy ♥

[@vinnie6603]

The way I see it, she seems to appeal more to casuals than meta players. She doesn't even have timestop. Scratch that - this patch is catered towards casuals. Meta players can still have some fun with her here and there but she doesn't shake the meta in the slightest. It's not really a bad thing though.

[@bonticimong7100]

how is she compared to ember? I'm a relatively new player with only fire and dark team working, so filling out team is more important to me than replacing my fire attacker for the next few months

[@jaderabbit898]

@@bonticimong7100Far better than Ember IMO. At least from a fun and visual standpoint.

[@HSMJose7]

@@jaderabbit898 Also meta wise she is better than Ember

[@bonticimong7100]

at what rank is she surpass ember? as a f2p player, at most i probably could only get her to ss after all...

[@HSMJose7]

@@bonticimong7100 depends on what rank your ember is but if both are SS i think brs character is better

[@aceban5441]

This is my first time witness this collab character not as S-rank but A-rank which make this more friendly banner. Wow I am hyped for this

[@tsuaririndoku]

I don’t care about rank. As long as I can make MOTIVATED combos. We are one step closer to makes PGR collab with MGR or DMC. Imagine playing as Raiden, Jetstream Sam, Nero, Dante and Vergil in PGR.

[@CosmicKei]

My plan to SS her is basically save all my blue tickets and also save the S rank selector from lamia's patch until this version, then pull everything and not only get enough shards to evolve her, but also take advantage from the s rank selector

[@pretz313]

Her banner isnt the same as standard banner tho, its separated like the nier collab banner... You cant use blue ticket too

[@Alex.Alleyne.Xandra]

Обожаю Блек Рок Шутер и Грей Рейвен. Счастье))

[@Tulik678]

А есть какая-то информация на счёт возвращения этого ивента? Просто я тогда даже не знал про эту игру, а сейчас вижу что тут BRS есть как играбельный персонаж и обидно что я пропустил этот ивент. Или этот ивент был (пока что) только на китайском сервере и в будущем будет на глобале?

[@Alex.Alleyne.Xandra]

@@Tulik678 как я поняла, на китайском, а на глобале ещё не скоро

[@Tulik678]

@@Alex.Alleyne.Xandra Фух... Значит не всё потеряно. Спасибо за ответ)

[@axios4702]

Damn, I´m saving so I can get Watanabe and Qu, so I guess I won´t be able to invest in BRS. Oh well. I´ll be happy just to have her, I watched the anime after finding out about this collab and found it fascinating. What´s more fascinating is the IRL origins of the character, almost literally an ilustration that took a life of it´s own.

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

Okay, to be fair, she is still kinda nutty to the point of being a borderline S-rank. The sheer level of burst damage she can put out with max blue orbs is _ridiculous._

[@-linkzin-3946]

I love the music i love the manga i love the anime and i love that we get to play as "Hatsune Miku" (i know its not her and BRS is an independent character But come on!!! Its like heeeeeerr) i'm Just happy to have her in the game

[@mcplayz7151]

Underrated gaming channel

[@Gamorou]

I honestly wish BRS was a S rank, because I love the character so much, but I even if I will invest completely on her as a F2P I will never get to the standards of a S-rank, I will still do it because I love her, but it kinda sucks knowing that I the character I like is already obsolete from release I think the solution to the exclusivity of the collab issue and a cool new mechanic in general would be to implement a system where you can convert shards of a character to of another character in a 2:1 ratio

[@venjaminffxi]

I got her SSS on my CN account and is worth

[@lolegaia]

LETS GOOO FARMING EM BLACK CARD ;-;

[@K7TZ]

Thanks for the heads up. I will save up 50k BC

[@colinmarshall9155]

Just FYI, the white outfit that looks like BRS is actually a separate character

[@Advent10II7]

Personally I wish they kept the twintails for Alpha, it looks really cool, especially with how her spikier hair makes her look similar to other incarnations of Black★Rock Shooter, while the one is this event is based on the original design.

[@jacktheripper7935]

The only complaint I have with the collab is that Dead master isn't playable.

[@huskonetap]

I liked the twin tails

[@inari5506]

IMHO collabs should just be there for shits and giggles. Well of course for collection purposes as well.

[@bruzebruze5959]

I want PGR to collab with HYPER NEPTUNIA🙏🏻

[@smittywababla]

I wonder if you would make lore video about nanami because how vital her role in the game up until her departure. I like your video concept and presentation so i think it would be cool if you cover her lore!❤

[@kogakoga309]

Part 2 of the collab we can summon IBRS and Death Master... Maybe

[@kiana_kaslana12]

Brs best looking character 🤯

[@nashmusa7153]

The only wish I have is for the collabs to have reruns. Cuz I stil want to SSS(+) the Nier Team and am already saving to SSS(+) BRS.

[@Deathy75]

5:00 nah bro, that's white rock shooter

[@batatapalha1241]

Black Rock Shooter, one of the first games that i played in PSP. Good as fuck

[@MrBone-afide]

Alpha's skin now looks like she's vergil's daughter which she is

[@Lemon_Force]

Dallas Cowboys Alpha lets goooooo 🌟🌟🌟

[@X862go]

wow love BRS

[@aqmarsyazwan143]

alpha cw coating so beautiful🥺

[@virtualdark2295]

I misssd out on the collab of the 3 constructs. I think one of them is named B2:B2 or something like that.

[@eckysgaming]

Tbh i pulled 2B and have a full Nier team it's just I'm a monthly player and a selena simp so i didn't pull for any signature or Make A2 SSS and i've been using Physical uncle for the Physical team and i just have to admit that SSS uncle with rosetta and No leap Liv luminance is way stronger than the nier team I have both Lee and Alpha now so uncle got replaced So why the complain ? An A rank at SSS with support is even stronger than a nier team (obviously if you invest in them they're gonna be OP)

[@Durahan13]

My one gripe with the Alpha coating was a super missed opportunity to give a nod to the BRS game as well. If they'd made her theme/effects Red/Magenta instead it'd be a perfect stand in for WRS. But that's just a personal gripe, overall i'm friggin STOKED about this and can't wait for it to come to global.

[@blackbun130]

Also, it was a missed opportunity not to give a scythe character a dead Master styled skin since she can't be playable. I was figuring that Haicma would be a good candidate

[@K7TZ]

I wanted luna to have WRS skin

[@BECTHNK119]

would've bought alpha's new coating if it had much fewer stars and only on coat without a single one in body area. And tbh the twin-tail alpha looks way more in theme with BRS

[@rubinrafaelov2352]

I think making her an A-rank is great. makes her more accessible to f2p's. I imagine Alpha, Lee and Alisa wrung the f2p CN players dry. plus A-ranks are usually very lacklustre (at least currently in global idk about future A-ranks) so having such a cool character as an A-rank is refreshing. I really wanna play her already (っ´Ι`)っ

[@hito-sama]

Alpha twintail would be good if the hair shape is same like Plume... What i mean is if Kuro designs her hair more "long and smooth", I'll have no complain

[@Ayzev]

As long as she as an attacker isn't outdamaged by her team mates

[@hirobhya]

ONLY?! She's an A rank is a blessing! GOD BLESS A RANK! UWOOOOOOOOO!

[@anawasim9064]

August - Lamia, S rank September - BRS, A rank October - Watanabe epitaph, S rank November - Qu, S rank Here is the answer, no way there would be 4 patches with s ranks

[@djentmas867]

Looking at recent full SSS fire teams, Lee is put on field for his burst only as Watanabe has more potential to have substantial on field time. I do question if going 60 pulls for BRS, hoping for SSS in that amount, and pulling a needed S rank you want to ascend to SS3 or SSS, might be the way to go now, while skipping Lee for the standard banner tickets and using PC to get him to SS.

[@Cloudiroth462]

I thought the ponytails were for Luna. I was upset to know it was for Alpha lol.

[@bojackayniben]

I just deleted the game (I had no storage) and now there is coming new characters😭😭😭😭😭😭 Im too lazy to install it again

[@RavFromYetti]

she is SSS rank in my account.

[@zenoafro]

If she is already free then no problem for me I actually thought she was S rank when I saw some gameplay

[@ameri7260]

This video is about linasera fangirling about alpha's skin

[@Dexyne]

To me, I'm glad she's A-rank as it make her easily available. Just play the event, have fun and you get her for free (though A2/9S were also free via the event while being S rank), then have fun again! And then pull for her and get her every 10 pulls or so like any A-rank with a random S-rank once you pity. Being a character over meta enjoyer, I don't really care so long as she's fun, which seems to be the case! I'll try to put her S rank or SS if possible but with Lamia just before I doubt I will be able to do that as a F2P. But that's also what I kind of hate about collabs: the fact that you can't upgrade/rank them up after the collab ends, which mean they'll be stuck to the rank you got them or upgraded them sadly... I wish we could farm them like other characters via Pain Cage or the shop (BP yellow currency), or even some special game mode. So far, the only game I've seen doing that is Langrisser Mobile, where I can still farm to this day for the characters I got from the Overlord collab some years ago (and pretty sure that's also the case for other collabs). But I know that collabs are, first and foremost a way for most companies to make as much profits as possible during a short amount of time on top of the popularity of a franchise... I also thought her alternate skin would be free from event but I was wrong, but I guess that's understandable as she is the only character from the collab. Anyway, I can't wait for it to come to global in about a year and have fun during the patch! (for now I have to restrain myself waiting for Bianca coming in 3 days... Felt like a loooong week/year!)

[@Furina-Simp]

Really like the character her and lamia are my goal to main I'm anti meta guy so the rank doesn't matter

[@HSMJose7]

Meta or not both are super fun to play with it's just a bonus that Lamia is meta, i got so lucky that i got Lamia and her weapon in 1 pull.

[@Furina-Simp]

@@HSMJose7 that's right💪💪💪and grats

[@saimyintmyat9373]

​@@HSMJose7yeah im going for Lamia In BRS patch.

[@sovikpan48]

Can we get a vid on Vera Wavebender and Liv Dream Catcher skins going thru the details just for fun. Also love your vids

[@nox9467]

Nice video as always, btw why on earth kuro always made them with white hair ?

[@NekuroMC]

i thought deadmaster would be a character too damn

[@imcat1236]

1 Thing i dont like about this collab is No BGS😔

[@GrayRavenRadio]

I wanted Black Gold Saw so bad 😔

[@jinamv5832]

oh man, it's a shame that we cannot farm her shards to upgrade her to SS rank like any other A ranks because i want to save blue tickets for watanabe epitaph when the blue target is coming (50/60 pity) i only have the full lightning meta team

[@alexanderali4710]

Nier team in PGR has reruns. At least one Nier rerun had happened already.

[@renorzeta]

i'm disappointed Dead Master not playable. and chance for another BRS collab is in space

[@benja9029]

I think it's kinda shallow to judge a company's respect for a collab from another franchise by the rarity of the units. I saw the animations + voice acting and all I saw was effort and attention to detail. Granted I haven't read the skill set yet cause I play on global but I definitely felt that kurogames cared for that character a bit too much haha

[@H_cked]

And they are scammers online saying you can double SSS her with 20,000 black cards. I almost fell for one of their scams. Hopefully if I fail SSS I will just go with double S

[@pedrobelaciano]

i wish deadmaster came as a un unit

[@WildcardGrey]

Rule of collabs for mobile games, spend on the limited characters because they won't come back.

[@nobletenshi7659]

I watched the anime of Black rock shooter so long ago, I barely remember it. I remember it being wierd tho. Didnt exactly explain alot;

[@GlobeMilo-rf7qq]

It makes sense if Kuro makes her as A rank because Kuro doesn't want her to powercreep Lee Hyperreal all the way. But, she is fun to be played like Noctis and Bambinata

[@saimyintmyat9373]

She is fire dps ?

[@Mehieddin7]

​@@saimyintmyat9373yep A rank fire attacker

[@insanecreeper91]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WHAT SHE WAS GETTING ADDED TO PGR??? I IMMEDIATELY SAID IT FELT LIKE BRS WHEN I STARTED I STOPPED PLAYING THAT BECAUSE I GOT BUSY IF I MISSED HER GETTING ADDED TO GLOBAL I WILL CRY-

[@zacc_mffint]

She'll be released globally this September

[@Tuskumo]

when the collab coming out for global

[@Lorrane.e.inkbendy]

I like a-rank on brs 👍

[@nanachilover7289]

I desperately need to know when this will be happening or if it is going on already as i already did the nier collab and sadly missed out on acquiring 2b so i do not want to miss out on another of my favorite combat waifus

[@jamespaguip5913]

I think Cristina vee or heather hogan would be the perfect voice for black rock shooter.

[@MageofFlowers-UwU]

they just should have given us a S Rank Insane Black Rock Shooter instead of a Alpha CW Skin...

[@ohreally69]

I prefer A rank collabs because its make it accessible for f2p,Nier collab was good,but they were boring unless you got them to specific ranks which was hard because they were S ranks and was harder to rank them up

[@zatky]

i just want Kuro games make Dead Master stay at the game and make a rerun of the event like nier event in case i missed it

[@zeromailss]

Cool video but a question, how good is BRS at SSS or SSS+ with her sig? I'm a huge fan of BRS and I'm curious if I can skip Hyper and use SSS+ Palefire until BRS arrive and dump enough BC to make her competitive to SS Hyper+Sig? or is it just not worth it? I can't afford SSS+ but SSS should be doable and get her sig with one or no Reso how is she performing alongside Namech/Wata+Empy VS Hyper in the same team I'm only lvl 109 in global and I'm lacking a lot of character so I'm playing catching up so skipping him and pulling for someone else is not a big loss as I could get Garnet for Electro team or Namech instead of Hyper cuz I only have Empy in fire team right now. edit: I'm not complaining that she is an A rank, I'm just very disappointed and confused as to why is she not an A rank Fire tank as nowadays all character can be powerful regardless of their role and we really lack A rank fire tank instead we have 3 S rank Fire tank, it boggles my mind

[@vost2916]

If you care about meta, then do not skip Hyperreal. He blows Palefire and BRS out of the water, it's not even close. If you don't care about meta and are playing casually, then go with whoever you enjoy playing the most. So you need to establish if you're a competitive/meta player or a casual player.

[@farawaygaming9675]

I think it makes sense to have her an A rank to attract new players but think it's silly to have a very high invested S+ BRS still inferior to S Lee. Then again that information has been vague and no content creator actually put out content on Hyperreal Lee vs BRS. Is SSS BRS superior to SS Lee? What rank supercedes the other? Does BRS not have time stop making her always inferior? Don't know.

[@SilentViolette]

Alpha in that coating makes me twirl my hair and smile- ngl kinda gay for her. hopefully she'll be release on my bday or close to it!

[@jonmanilenio]

My heart cries because I'll never get 2B...

[@MageofFlowers-UwU]

there will be a Nier Rerun.

[@adityamahendra6196]

Tbh im fine with BRS being A rank, because if they made her as S rank and she didnt thrive as nier was, i think people will not be pleased either way. Because nier somewhat put an expectation that collab character = broken. So with A rank, kuro can have more freedom of space without needing to make another power scale in to the game yet at that time.

[@Bendae]

Wooooooooo

[@georgewehbeh7387]

Very excited for this character to come to global. Anyone have any Idea if her shards are available in the A - rank inver material shop during her patch? Wondering if I should be saving those up or using them to buy memory shards

[@OnimushaGenma]

I have 2 questions about the Black Rock Shooter Banner: 1. The 50.000BC for maximizing BRS includes her weapon? If not, how much would I need to get her exclusive weapon? 2. BRS has her own CUB? If not then what options are good for her? Thanks in advance.

[@MageofFlowers-UwU]

50k without weapon. 50k is for SSS+