Great British Rail?

Transport Committee May 14, 2024 interviewing RMT General Secretary, Mick Lynch and ASLEF General Secretary, Mick Whelan about the draft Rail Reform Bill.

[@JammyDodger45]

The only people speaking sense in relation to our rail network. Let the professional rail people take charge and get the investment companies out of the industry.

[@faye_didac]

but have you considered, rishi went to eton AND oxford so he has to be smart. nothing todo with aristocracy. surely the right course of action is to give him more control

[@JammyDodger45]

@@faye_didac - 😂. A very poor 🎣 attempt.

[@suewardastrologer]

Very competent, informed, and professional witnesses.

[@colinsixhitter3303]

Our railway should be owned by the people, run by the people for the people otherwise what is the point of a national railway?

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

In my opinion railways, electric supply, gas supply, water supply, are all part of this countries infrastructure and as such should not be run as private companies, but wholly owned by the people, for the people.

[@colinsixhitter3303]

@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne 100%

[@vivalaleta]

Right on. The current rail owners are running it into the ground.

[@theredraven]

It's funny, despite being "publicly owned", Network Rail have never given me as a taxpayer any say over how they do things.

[@grenfellroad8394]

@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOnecompletely agree. Why sell the family jewels? For profit by people who have no scruples!

[@audigex]

ROSCOs made £400 MILLION last year in profits, that's insane especially when you consider half of the rolling stock still dates back to British Rail!

[@Robert.S459]

ROSCO Rolling stock companies have been criticized as rentier capitalist, in that they add little value to the end product versus direct ownership of the trains themselves, and extract large profits from what were once in many cases government owned and government-financed assets.(Wiki) Easy to see why Mick and Mick loath them so much, and the Tories are in bed with them.

[@jrhall8970]

“If you did that on the tube, every fifth train would be a private sector operator” Mick Lynch - 2024 😂😂😂😂

[@andrewchalke1751]

Well said to both Micks, everything they said makes sense and hopefully the important people listen and take heed

[@user-cs1dt2xw4c]

Take back control, run by the people for the people, same for water and energy.

[@SurvivalManagementGroup]

Hopefully going in the right direction. Definitely need to OWN our trains.

[@IanMcNeillclimb8]

Mick and Mick great double act on top form

[@duxberry1958]

not a prick between them

[@michaelperkins5746]

Well done and well said

[@ianmurray250]

The Department for Transport has publicly stated to this committee that the privatisation of UK Rail was costing us (fare box + tax subsidy) between 3x and 3.5x the cost that BR was working with, allowing for inflation. The extra cost being for the ROSCOs, the cost of buying trains as opposed to building them, and the cost of using external rather than in house consultancies and staff. More recently, the DfT has stated that the current 2024 cost, post Covid-19 when the TOCs went bankrupt, is at least 4x the cost of British Rail.

[@chrislaurenceleo]

I haven't used a train for many years. I cannot afford to use them since privatisation and they are often late.

[@superted6960]

And yet regulated fares are set by the Govt.

[@chrislaurenceleo]

@@superted6960 supposedly to protect train users from excessive fares. Yet we have the most expensive fares in europe

[@DieyoungDiefast]

Nope, I'd rather drive, no matter what the distance. At least I know the transport will be there, on time and will get me there pretty much on time, and be cheaper.

[@bruceknights8330]

How do you know they are late if you don't use them?

[@chrislaurenceleo]

@@bruceknights8330 believe it or not I have family and friends who gave attempted train journeys. You may well think people have no interaction with others but most people actually do interact and gain experience and information from that extensive reality

[@lewisdiamond7850]

Heading in the right direction.

[@kevinmorrison5156]

You can window dress a dump. But it's still a dump

[@catherinemartin6258]

@@kevinmorrison5156 miserable git

[@nodrogwarob]

People moan about BR but my experience of it was mainly good. Old rolling stock and creaky infrastructure was a product of deliberate under investment after years of trying to push both freight and passengers onto the road. The two Micks clearly have years of experience and have a good idea of what is required to run a good railway. Instead of seeing them as a thorn in their sides the government should work with them and utilise all that experience. The trouble is, people have been gaslit into believing that profit matters above everything else for so long that the concept of a decent service run for the the public by the public has become alien. The result has been the privatisation of profits and the nationalisation of risk where companies have become a middle man for shifting public money into a private lot where numerous people skim it off to their private off shore accounts. Any political party that commits to nationalising essential infrastructure stands a good chance of winning the GE, the public are sick of being fleeced for little return.

[@greyfox8194]

Bring back british rail it was working come the late 80s and 90s chris green had the wondrous network southeast we were the Cradle of the railways we must take back what national pride we had

[@rockerjim8045]

If the Government’s Management of the Railways invited the Unions to become Directors the of Organisation most of the Strife we currently have would disappear

[@grenfellroad8394]

Get the two Micks together with Nigel and Richard from Green Signals and all four put their views together to the TSC, and to Parliament. Then create a strong railway with a future.

[@nickroach2791]

What a schooling them to Micks gave them - absolute embarrassment of a government

[@cfb15jan]

Very interesting views which never the less fail to acknowledge that HMTreasury have believed, for decades, that the railway costs too much. A view gradually taking hold in continental Europe as well.

[@genevieveloveday2016]

It seems that the two Micks are better informed and are clear in what works

[@BanterRanterr]

1:48 💯 % he should be our prime minister 😊🔥🔥🔥

[@alexselby349]

GBR is just a TfL style rebrand, one livery but still private operators. Just call it British Rail, or "Greater Railways" if you must 🧐

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Even the PM doesn't use the railway and instead financially supports helicopter and aviation companies.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Why are current government ministers wishing to create opportunities for private companies to make profit out of public assets?

[@UkSapyy]

Because they own decent chucks of the private sector. Whereas they cannot own the public sector. People need to understand that its is better for minster to earn a large income over a minster owning assets. We need to tax assets in order to make large public assets less desirable to the rich.

[@bd1845]

I am far from what would be described as left wing but if you get these two in, you’d better make sure you have done your homework as they will destroy you with their knowledge of the industry.

[@grenfellroad8394]

It’s like low cost airlines, open access operators are the low cost version of main operators. BA or RyanAir…

[@clivebroadhead4381]

When the HS2 project is complete (i.e., the Capex) will a private operator be invited to make a profit out of the sunk cost of the asset, e.g., Virgin?

[@joj.]

The plan is for HS2 services to be contracted out to the operator of the West Coast Partnership franchise, which is currently Avanti.

[@laurenceskinnerton73]

Interesting.

[@johnsymons6862]

I don't use the train, used to! Now to expensive for me.

[@catherinemartin6258]

👍🏻

[@colinsixhitter3303]

What happened with Mr. Lynch or Mr. Whelan a courtesy given to all other people that attend a committee?

[@elloco1996]

Interestingly, I can't find this hearing on the BBC website and iPlayer ... is that a coincidence?

[@flangewaffle]

Double Mick should just run the country.

[@sparkyUK]

Any TOC on the ECML has made an utter mess of it. When the Gov stepped in and took over, trains ran consistently better.

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Is the aim of the current givernment to extract profits for investors who highly likely drive Tesla's and use taxis and don't actually use the passenger side of railways?

[@sbwords]

As a frequent train user in Japan and China, the UK system is a national disgrace.

[@thepm3972]

Do this with Banks then move onto the energy companies....but firstly get our water fit for drinking.....outrageous this is allowed to go on

[@legionnairegonk4425]

If you remember British Rail in the 70's and early 80's from having the bad luck of using it, you will know that using British Rail was an absolutely horrific experience. The staff were rude and surly, the rolling stock old and often decrepid, and our stations in a serious state of disrepair. I can still remember vividly the dirt and grime and decay of St Pancras and Kings Cross. Health and safety was also worse than it is today. The romance for a return to the 'good old days' of BR leaves me baffled. It will be subject again to the same raids (read cutbacks) on budgets in times of recession no matter who runs the country.

[@rodneycooperLMSCoach]

There are reasons for your comments but not the ones you are alluding to. From the 1970's the talk began about privatisation and investment by government(miniscule by todays standards)was being cut further. As the 1990's approached Railway managers saw opportunities and morale (just like the NHS today)dropped like a stone. The results as you experienced were inevitable but NOT because it was publicly owned and run. Going back to the 1950's proves that.

[@staticaudio6961]

I think you have to look at BR at the point it was sold. New trains, clean stations (mostly) and much better than in the 1970s. It's a disgrace that we went from world leaders in rail to present day of having to import new trains. We should not look through Rose tinted glasses but at the same time recognise privatisation has not worked.

[@PG-ji6vq]

Back in the BR day I remember catching a BR train out of London, it was disgusting, the service was dreadful, and I ended up standing in a baggage wagon with no seats and two Norwegian tourists. I spent an hour apologising for British Rail. It was awful and we can’t go back.

[@gregoryclark8217]

As opposed to today, where I spend a lot of money on a ticket, the train turns up late, and I spend an hour standing in a disgustingly dirty bicycle space because there aren't any seats available. The only difference is that now some rich people get even richer because of my ticket.

[@rockerjim8045]

Back in the day the Tories starved British Rail of investment creating that environment. This policy was designed to create a hatred of BR so the public were hoodwinked into believing Privatisation so the solution.

[@nickroach2791]

BR was dreadfully under funded

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Should the aim of government be to create an efficent and effective low carbon transport system?

[@vivalaleta]

Have an intelligent experiment and hand the rail over to the employees who are experts at running it but being stymied by Capitalism.

[@superted6960]

What crap. Who's going to pay for it?

[@vivalaleta]

@@superted6960 The government of course. Don't tell me that you believe all the "but how are we going to pay for it" bullshit. From a government that makes it own money?

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Which body is responsible for the integration of transport?

[@dixieflatline1189]

Department for Transport

[@bruceknights8330]

The problem with RMT and most of the comments here is that they are based on ideology. Some elements of Nationalisation worked, whilst others didn't. The same is true of privatisation. It isn't black verses white and a one size fits all model won't work any better than the current mess. The truth is that the worst factor in running the rsilways is the interference of politicians, who love to play trains but are awful at it. HMG micromanages every aspect of the railways, to everybody's detriment. Just look at the IEP or GWML electrification fiascos. Because our nationalised railway infrastructure owner couldnt electrify one route within a sensible budget or timescale, we ended up with large gaps in the wires and hybrid trains. The 390s cost 5 times the amount of the HST sets they replaced and nobody, passenger or operator, actually rates them as an improvement. They built an assembly plant in Tony Blair's constituency, which tells you just what a political scam it was. The pragmatic solution of buying 40 electric locos to replace 1 power car per set was ridiculed at the time but would have cost 5% of the cost of IEP. I wonder who pays for that 95% of £5bn?

[@rockerjim8045]

A Guard told me that the budget for the Electrification of the GWR was set before the work started. The digging of the piling for the masts was meant to do a Kilometre per shift. One night one they hit Granite and that meant they could only complete one piling per shift. The costs went through the roof because nobody had done a proper survey before the work started.

[@DOCTORDROTT]

Worked in the industry for nearly 50 years. Under BR our pay was poor, had to work " spare turns " to get a good wage, all the rolling stock was worn out , most built in the 1960's. Railways privatised, my pay jumped £6 grand a year and the company I worked for had 250 new locomotives and 2000 wagons. Average drivers pay in 2024 is £ 57, 000, average RMT members wage £31,000. That's the real facts folks. Nearly all trains are leased these days. Most of the old stock has been scrapped / stored. Also a lot of the failings in the rail industry are actually caused by the retained ex BR managers. In Wales, millions have been spent on stock and run by the WAG. Guess what, saw a few trains in the valleys running with less than ten passengers on board and two staff. Question are the public prepared to subsidise services they may not even use ? One example A £ 15,000 subsidy is used on one service between Cardiff and Holyhead. It would be cheaper to taxi the passengers.

[@superted6960]

Strange how he blames privatisation for the crap industrial relations. Yet who owns and runs the London underground network?

[@martinphillips9686]

Why do we have industrial action at all everyone is fed up to the back teeth with all the cancelled trains cant you see that enogh is enough

[@green856w]

It's about time rail workers acknowledged they are in their jobs to serve the public. Right now they are failing to provide the full service, thinking only of themselves.

[@korma9732]

Clown, they're not public servants, they're private employees!!

[@thejigantics2641]

Mick Lynch for PM

[@user-hp2ku8fi3e]

Speaking out your bum

[@juliemcmeekin2095]

brereton will soon be gone another fool like gullis stokes worst ever mps

[@duxberry1958]

rmt i wont a refund off you lot for losing a days travel due to one of yours strikes

[@leonblittle226]

The railways cost ten times too much to use as passengers!! The wages they want (and increases) are now at a "run away" level which then make it EVEN MORE unreasonable. The service levels are simply not achievable because it's been trumped up to win a franchise which in turn means there is no space in the timetable and the slightest problem blows the whole plan up ( a train fault in Edinburgh has been the cause of a delay in cornwall before !) The entire system needs to be revamped - the staff included because they are too greedy.

[@martingreen5439]

Anything to say about the vast profits for investors/shareholders or are you vacant on this fact?

[@Mightypi]

Take a breath mate. Staff costs on teh rails arnt much more than any other industry. Shareholders on the other hand

[@keikoandgilly]

*clears throat* The reason rail fares rise by RPI, is because of the ROSCOs increasing the leasing fees and private manufacturers; staff’s wages hasn’t kept up with the rate of compound inflation. You call us greedy, but I have yet to see any of you willing to clean a train to back that. Simply put: We do the work you do not want to do, why should we be dictated what the value of our work and worth is?

[@adamtravers856]

rubbish chat, not talk of steam coming back to the mainline services, solves all issues :D

[@097534]

You must be joking look at the Dutch system great. Uk pathetic I can never get to the airport bloody hopeless

[@geralldus]

The unions are concerned with protecting their jobs and outdated working practice, the real world doesn't function like that, so unless they accept change nothing will ever move forward.

[@rockerjim8045]

After looking at this Consultation it would appear that the Unions are focused on Promoting the best interests of the Industry for the Nationals Benefit

[@joj.]

"The unions are concerned with protecting their jobs..." He's getting there lmao

[@Senna-xi1gr]

There’s nothing Great about it 🤬

[@marksmith334]

Utter crap from two,people who have spend the last three years destroying the rail industry. A pair of blackshirts.

[@jonnysegway7866]

They need to get off their phones, ignoramous's

[@alexhornett6985]

British rail was crap

[@jimcollins4785]

Network rail spend to much money on sub contractors and diversity inclusion projects seem to be top off there lists instead of training proper workers

[@bruceknights8330]

And Network Rail is wholly state run and operated. Hmm....

[@joj.]

Southwestern are owned by First and MTR, and they were the first to put an Intersex-Inclusive pride flag on their trains. They're performing fine. Avanti are owned by First and Trenitalia, and take part in the Birmingham Pride parade yearly. They did so poorly in the last year that there was talk of them being renationalised. CrossCountry are owned by Arriva and are joining Avanti this year. They're also doing fine. LNER is state owned, and has a train with as many pride flags as they could reasonably fit on it. They've been one of, if not the best performing operator since the pandemic. Railtrack were privately owned and did such a poor job that train crashes happened often enough to kill the whole company. It's nothing to do with DEI, nor state ownership. It's just sheer mismanagement and companies taking the lowest possible bidder leading to inept private contractors being pulled in.