Greatest Jazz Etude Ever Written?

Adam and Peter dive into a Jazz standard that we think might be the best practice etude ever written. What do you think?
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[@mattorlando415]

One episode should just be variations on the intro, that's jazz lol. Best music podcast on KZbin!

[@chiefhaddon1913]

My favorite intro by far. Also, I would second whoever mentioned Kapustin - His 24 preludes are so cool

[@Dinis_Brito]

omg my favourite composer was mentioned

[@nickbaigent2714]

Your description of giant steps was a real eye opener -The major third progressions 😮 also the first half of the song’s melody line are basically a G major 7th chord spread and an Eb major 7th chord spread with transforms into a Bb major seventh chord when the F# melody note is added in bar 6. So the chords AND the melody both totally based in Gmaj7 - Ebmaj7 - Bmaj7 tonal centres. So simplified thank you I really appreciate it 😊

[@MarkEisenman]

GIANT STEPS, could be they be GIANT (steps) because in the Circle of Fifths the major 3rd key targets make a TRIANGLE? ... which means that's the farthest leaps you can make SYMMETRICALLY in the cycle. A SQUARE outlines the diminished for example.

[@andradas9688]

the farthest leaps you can make symmetrically in the cycle is the tritone, not the major 3rd. If you want geometrical analogies, the tritone would be like a semicircle, which contains one side of symmetry (as opposed to 3rd or diminished, triangle and square, as you pointed out).

[@MarkEisenman]

Good point, you're right.... the farthest distance on the Circle of Fifths is the tritone , but that movement does not TRACE a semicircle but a simple LINE back and forth. (I was limiting myself to regular polygons) whereas the intervals I listed do create actual shapes.

[@GoGetFletch]

Agreement adhered to.

[@edzielinski]

In the words of Tay Money, I understood the assignment. It was interesting how Peter was not aware of one of the theory aspects of the etude. I came across a fun way to think about this in another podcast called Music Student 101, where the hosts talk about switching gears between the listening brain and the theory brain and using them together to understand and play music. Fortunately, in music, you don't have to show your work - if you can deliver and do it in real time, nobody care's how you get there. So whether you can verbalize theory or just play it doesn't really matter. I think this can be taken even further. All music works on the same basic principles - it's just a matter of how effectively they are combined. If you can immediately identify those basic principles and extract them from even very complex pieces, then it's just a matter of playing them well, and incorporating them into your own performance. In the case of Giant Steps, the simplicity is magnified, which leaves the mind free to explore the technical aspects of the performance, and focusing on the feel and flow of the music.

[@UkuleleAversion]

8:18 😢You should've invited him in.

[@EyalZeidman770]

What does it mean when I view each of your chats 🐱 several times?❤

[@emmalinecolvin6532]

Agreement adhered to 🫡

[@rodrigomunozmarmolejo9337]

is this the funniest episode?

[@pdbass]

I really love this channel

[@tomcasey5972]

I did hear Mc Coy Tyner play Giants Steps in a duo arrangement with Marian McPartland. Lucky me.

[@doce7606]

hahaha.... hehehe .... Go Peter ! Herbie would say that humility is as important as bravery ... !

[@yahnferral9163]

McCoy did do giant steps a few times. If you move through the tune playing lines with major pentatonics off of the five chord from each key center you will hear another familiar sound.

[@UkuleleAversion]

You can also play the major pentatonic off of the tonic, then play a minor pentatonic built off the fifth degree of the dominant. So B major pent. for Bmaj7, A minor pent. for D7 and so on. The result is a series of pentatonics descending by _whole tones_ rather than major third leaps. This also matches one of the basslines that Steve Davis often plays for Coltrane changes (on My Favourite Things and Coltrane's Sound). Instead of jumping around in thirds, you'll often hear him playing a descending whole tone scale. This emphasises the root of each tonic major 7 chord and the fifth of each dominant 7 chord and has a much smoother, less jarring sound. Another interpretation is that McCoy and Steve are thinking of the dominant 7 as its corresponding ii minor 7. This would make a lot of sense since it's an approach that pretty much every bop player takes with ii-Vs (emphasising just the ii or just the V).

[@weedanwine]

Interesting that Coltrane never did Giant Steps live, I've always thought Chopin might be weirded out by how many people perform his etudes.

[@iggyziggy8737]

He did play it live

[@chabuhi]

Best tune ever. Dying on this hill. NJU has a great version on their channel. (Accord thus acquiesced.)

[@joelgevirtz6181]

Agreement adhered to! Excellent discussion!

[@YoullHearIt]

thank you!

[@geocosmicvalentine]

It is your agreement into which I have been adhered! And I love that Peter, up to this point, has only known GIANT STEPS because his ears enjoy it and it has somehow been shoved into his actual DNA. It is absolutely valid and lovely. After all, that’s how we want the audience to experience it, not through calculating what is happening technically, like reading a manual. However, I’ve also learned the hard way that some people actually are addicted to the theoretical language of music; written and spoken. It’s like enjoying the small print on packaging. It’s a thing - like ASMR. Oh well, it made me happy that Peter got GIANT STEPS via the Griot method!

[@YoullHearIt]

most eloquent agreement adherence to date, thank you!

[@astralcourtmusician]

It'd be helpful to see the piano roll

[@slimdugger99]

Deconstructing these great performances misses their value to lovers of jazz music. The mechanics, harmonics, or mathematics of music isn’t the essential element of jazz, it’s the impact on the ear as a gateway into our consciousness, and that imprints on our being. It’s more magic than mathematics.

[@maloneycraig]

Agreement adhered to. (You guys know you’re not supposed to end a sentence with prepositions, right?) Also: if you were going the extra mile, for the intro, you would have reharmed emotion in motion with the Coltrane cycle subbed in ;) This was one of my favorite episodes. The fact that Peter doesn’t think about the giant steps changes in the party line “augmented triad closing on itself” way is super revealing.

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@denverguitarhero]

You ended your sentence with the preposition "in" did you mean to do so?

[@Wolfram53]

Agreement Adhered in Major Thirds ! Thanks Dudes ! I wish I had this kind of teaching in school. 🌞

[@taagenletter220]

Great episode as always. Tons of information and great vibe.

[@gexahedrop8923]

Nikolai Kapustin has awesome jazz etudes!

[@chokoala8637]

Same for Oscar Peterson ! But yeah Kapustin is great, one of my favorite composers

[@cburvil]

No 7 intermezzo?

[@dskinner6263]

9:54 Stravinsky "Rite"

[@sonofsheepdog]

Stravinsky was so out

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Loving "Adam reacts..." 😂

[@CWBella]

Away from the piano right now; can hardly wait to get back so I can try out all these wonderful insights.

[@nilkilnilkil]

Hahahaha

[@daveincalgary1205]

Another wonderful episode! always grateful!

[@BoWadeOnDrums]

GALA 🤙

[@jampoles]

Looks like someone recorded John Coltrane playing live Giant Steps at least on 3 occasions with Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard and Wayne Shorter. Hope we'll get to hear it one day? kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4bUgpt3iLWErLs

[@YoullHearIt]

thanks for this - further investigation will be under way, please stay tuned!

[@bounderby99]

There are possible recordings listed as late as November of 1962! He also played it (and was recorded playing it) quite a bit at the Showboat in Philadelphia in 1960. I have been praying for these to surface for quite some time now, and I think it’s bound to happen eventually

[@howardteich3544]

AAT

[@henrycadman5564]

I also heard from my guitar teacher that the key centers make a triangle on the Circle of Fifths because Coltrane was trying to represent the Trinity in Christianity with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

[@Joe-dj6sz]

Agreement absolutely adhered to you monster's of tone and frequencies.

[@DojoOfCool]

In the tradition of drinking beer and talking Giant Steps theories I'll throw out....Messiaen Modes of Limited Transposition 3rd Mode. Some say Coltrane did play Giant Step once live some say twice. Like a good dawg Agreement Adhered To....

[@noneyabid]

Agreement adhered to! (+1 Harpist) Great content that I take in and try to make work on the harp....and, yes, I've performed "Giant Steps". Gotta admit...while very doable, falls in the "too difficult to be fun" category😀

[@steamboatmcwrigley561]

Let's spend 20 minutes discussing different ways to explain the same thing

[@CWBella]

Tonal centers a major 3rd apart: Play ii-V-I, then go down a whole step from that to become the ii of the tonal center a major third down from the starting I. (C#m - F#7 - Bmaj, down a whole step to Am, which is the ii of the new tonal center, G.) Seems like thinking/hearing/playing in tonal centers is the way to go to better play in the key of music.

[@shawnbenz]

Just got home from the gym and I’m gonna go get some lunch now and then I’m coming back home

[@MarkEisenman]

Giant Steps origin theory. VERSE of "Till The Clouds Roll By" J. Kern published in ----- wait for it---- 1917 Yes, you read that right.

[@bounderby99]

They’re in Ravel’s Gaspard de la Nuit from 1908; that’s the earliest I’ve found them presented verbatim how Coltrane used them, but it’s always possible that there was an earlier exact use

[@colingordon9976]

@@bounderby99and in Liszt before that. And Schubert before that.

[@lukespencer8341]

Better late than never......agreement adhered to

[@NateBrinley]

I've read and agree to these terms and conditions.

[@joechampion4484]

Agreement, adhered to 🙏🏿

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@vineyardworker]

Erudiatiion augmenting etudiation. (Agreement adhered to.)

[@acwatercolors]

Lol that intro 🤣 You are great guys ! 👏

[@CWBella]

KalebKam! KalebKam! KalebKam!

[@imparatore9377]

U rock. U jazz

[@shepherdlass1]

Agreement adhered to. Great episode!

[@MrEVANwhat]

Agreement adhered to

[@CualliMusic]

Agreement adhered to. 🎉

[@Calbertone]

love you guys

[@YoullHearIt]

❤️

[@Rhekon]

Agreement adhered to lmao

[@markpanes5143]

Agreement adhered to

[@Nicolorios]

Agreement adhered to!

[@nilskleemann334]

Agreement adhered to

[@badass-violin]

Agreement adhered to.

[@jeffreylowy3180]

Agreement adhered to

[@judah142]

AGREEMENT ADHERED TO.

[@jamesonrichards5105]

Agreement definitely adhered

[@ryanmdamian]

NOW IS THE TIME TO PAY!

[@BRICKSQUIRT]

content

[@mrcneale]

"Caleb Cam, Caleb Cam!"

[@danielgonzales4124]

Agreement adhered to. 🎶

[@PaulSenni]

Agreement adhered to!!

[@Guerrerosmusic]

You are soooo good!!!

[@josi8150]

Agreement adhered

[@CarlFritz-fs1ji]

Agreement adhered to 😊

[@stevarion1437]

Funny ep! Adhered!

[@harrisonharrison91]

Gentleman's agreement!

[@danmcclary6013]

Fantastic episode! Agreement adhered to.

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@ElbowsUnique]

Adheared to. Tyner did record giant steps as a solo piano piece.

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@toddhouston4523]

Subscribed

[@MusicTeacherMcGorry]

Agreement adhered to!

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@rdpatterson2682]

thx guys.

[@CWBella]

Agreement (gladly) adhered to. ❤

[@YoullHearIt]

YEAH! 🙏🏼

[@GizzyDillespee]

Thank you guys, I don't feel so alone, sometimes not ever having thought about something in particular that's obvious in hindsight. If Peter still has those moments too, then it's okay even if mine happen more often🤣 that's to be expected. Etude sounds like A-tude, or attitude. BTW I typed this during a midroll ad that I turned down, but the first one was weird... the words didn't entirely match the mouth of the person saying them, and they were slightly shocking, in a funny way... anyway, I'm glad to help them support your channel with their ad purchase🤣... back to the show

[@GizzyDillespee]

BTW 19:50 was a nice surprise improvisation there... and when Adam comes back... wow, I never knew he never played it in concert!

[@GizzyDillespee]

And, no need to respond to every weird comment I leave, unless that helps with the algorithm. It's okay either way, but definitely I don't expect that.

[@paulrodberg]

Agreement happily and dutifully adhered to.

[@ChipTheMusicMan]

Agree to agree

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@erahonk]

Agreement adhered to.

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@mattbell4194]

Agreement adhered to!

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@jajackso18]

Agreement adhered to!

[@YoullHearIt]

🙏🏼

[@thunderjumpkins]

Agreement adherence

[@YoullHearIt]

agreement adherence is much appreciated 🙏🏼

[@chrissterrmusic]

Agreement adhered.

[@YoullHearIt]

gracias

[@geoffknot]

Peter! how did you not know ?!? so funny!

[@rowang.2760]

Is that Paris-arrangement of "Getting Sentimental" on the outro available anywhere?