GREECE: Who came before the ancient Greeks?

A thousand years before the ancient Greeks--some say two thousand years--another people inhabited the area we now call Greece. We refer to them as Mycenaeans, though the Greeks saw them as their own heroic ancestors.
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[@issith7340]

Mycenians were generally almost identical to modern greeks. Spoke an early Greek language, left inscriptions of their language in clay tablets ( linear b). Had , mostly the same gods as later Greeks, later Greeks we’re remembering myceneans as their ancestors. Wtf? What more do you want to name them greek people??

[@baarbacoa]

DNA shows the Mycenaeans were Greeks as well.

[@issith7340]

@@baarbacoa I know.

[@philipvecchio3292]

Today is my birthday and I appreciate this connection to the past.

[@TheNomadicProfessor]

Happy birthday!

[@marcpeterson1092]

Wait, I thought the language rendered by Linear B was an early form of Greek. Not true? Why do you say Mycenaean people were different from the Greeks?

[@TheNomadicProfessor]

Linear B is generally considered a precursor form of ancient Greek, yes. In terms of culture and civilization, the Mycenaeans were distinct from the later ancient Greeks. When it comes to how genetically similar they were--how physically descended the diverse ancient Greeks were specifically from the Mycenaeans, I don't claim to know. Could be they were "the same" people in a broad sense, could be not so much. :)

[@DemetriosKongas]

Cultures and civilisations evolve as societies evolve. Linear B has been deciphered and found to be Greek. Societies evolved from gene (gentes), fratries and tribes to the class societies of the city states of classical Greece.

[@mikel3359]

Mycenaeans were Bronze Age Greeks. The term "Ancient Greeks" used mostly for Iron Age Greeks and especially for the classic Ancient Greek period because that student in most.

[@GeoBBB123]

​@@TheNomadicProfessor Recent genetic studies connect the modern Greeks to the Mycenaeans at about 70% genetic similarity. So how much more genetically connected would the 'ancient' Greeks of the classical period have been to their Mycenanean ancestors? Rather more I would say.

[@gerardmichaelburnsjr.]

If you just say the same thing that everybody has said all along, you will have no reputation as a historian. Whether it is true or not is not the key thing.

[@sumithardcore]

You're extremely underrated , I wish you'll get millions of subscribers . I know you're a man of 'reverse Streem' but come and explore India you'll get a huge fan following here.

[@TheNomadicProfessor]

In the works!

[@panagiotisterpandrouzachar7754]

Superb work, friend! However, you do stand linguistically and historically corrected when it comes to your supposed “non-Greek” origin f the Mycenaeans. They spoke Greek and worshipped Greek gods. Ergo: THEY WERE GREEK.

[@TheSauron197]

The first ( deciphered)written form of the greek language was linear B ....And this is the language spoken by the the mycenians ( A.k.A estern Greeks by the historians ,because they inhabited areas to the east of the Dorians before their descend on southern greece ) They were divided in two major groups the ionians and the aeolians ..Collectively they self identified with many names but acheans was the most popular....(mycenian is a name coined by historians, after the most important city of the era ....) After the bronze age collapse the descent of the Dorians occurred ...the Modern Greek language derives from the koine Greek, koine derives from the Attic fialect...And Attic is an Achaean , mycenian dialect say it how ever you want...

[@BenSHammonds]

very interesting, I dig the ancients, early Pelasgian folk, remnant of EEF speaking culture, expulsed from Greece, some to Lemnos and as story tells us, some to the Po River region of north Italy. The pre-Indo-European speakers, those of the EEF/Anatolian farmer folk, made up early peoples of the area, before the Indo-European speakers migrated into the region. The Po River cultures, Terramare (as well as culture on Crete) and the later Etruscan and Rhaetian folk, both north and south of the Po area, are of similar genetic and language of Pelasgian, such as Otzi shows us.

[@wardafournello]

We know the existence of the Pelasgians from the ancient Greek texts and only from them. Nowhere is it mentioned that the Greeks expelled the Pelasgians from Greece, on the contrary it is stated that they assimilated into the Greek ethnos ,as linguistic studies prove, since many words in the Greek language have a Pelasgian origin. Baptizing Pelasgians other pre-Indo-European people , like the Etruscans , Rhaetians and the poor Otzi the Iceman , is arbitrariness. There are 2 theories .The Pelasgian language was a Greek dialect that saw extensive changes or is an extinct ancient language.

[@BenSHammonds]

It is not a matter of arbitrariness at all (more a working theory) as there are indeed old stories of the expulsion of Pelasgians in Greek literature, one example is the expulsion of them to the Island of Lemnos, where it is known the inhabitants spoke a non-Indo-European tongue, as per what has been recorded. The Greek language is Indo-European, where as the early inhabitants of the area were not, being early farmer folk. The Pelagian language and that of the Etruscan/Rhaetian is of a similar type,,, suggesting a possible connection somewhere thru the halls of time. Here is one example of a story of expulsion, via Herodotus: In former times, the Athenians lived on the Acropolis and the Pelasgians near the Hymettus, but the Athenians expelled the Pelasgians, who settled on Lemnos. [Herodotus, Histories 6.137.] Also there is old legend, I couldnt lay my hand too the info right at the moment, of a group of Pelasgian going via the sea and arriving at mouth of the Po, which is legend so may or may not have happened.@@wardafournello

[@wardafournello]

@@BenSHammonds Herodotus mentioned that the Pelasgians of Lemnos were originally Hellespontine Pelasgians who they were refugees in Athens but whom the Athenians resettled on Lemnos. Herodotus mentioned that there were even autochthonous Pelasgians of Athens were previously called Cranaoi. Moreover, Herodotus mentioned that the Aegean islanders "were a Pelasgian race, who in later times took the name Ionians" and that the Aeolians, according to the Hellenes, were known anciently as "Pelasgians". The Pelasgians were considered part of the Hellenic ethnos.(The word nation from Latin "natio" has one race with genetic continuity , but ethnos has races with cultural similarity. Roman empire was a militaristic empire , Greek empire was a cultural empire). There was migration of the Pelasgians to the Po River region of Italian peninsula where they probably transferred the Chalkidic alphabet and grammar, and were finally absorbed by the native populations. Etruscans , Rhaetians are indigenous Italic populations.

[@BenSHammonds]

that was of much interest to me, thank you for the information. The main curiosity that I have is in the early farmer migrations into Europe, and the peoples of this time frame. In Europe at that time we have no written records but in places such as Greece there are written records/stories from long ago and so there may be various mentioning of remnant populations coming from or of the early farmer folk such as on ancient Crete etc. Modern genetic studies are an amazing new way to study the ancients and their migrations, most of the Indo-European steppe peoples having Y chromosome of R1b in most cases, which is a standard haplogroup in modern Europe, where as the Neolithic farmer haplogroup most often was that if G2a, all of this is fascinating and gives us more area for research and study @@wardafournello

[@thli8472]

Very interesting. Although I think you should've been more clear that the mycenaeans were Greek.

[@seaman5705]

If the Dorians were different from Myceneans and the Mycenean population and culture was destroyed almost totally , how do you demonstrate that they were "Greek" . And were they Greek or Hellenes ?

[@thli8472]

They spoke Greek. Don't know what you mean by Greek vs Hellene. @@seaman5705

[@seaman5705]

Well - linear A is a sylabic scrypt , Greek alphabet is a aplhabetic script . How do you know alphabetic phoenician script of the classical and ancient Greeks, derived ,because is not the same, from Mycenean sylabic script ? I assume nobody heard what the Mycenian language or Homer's language sounded like . Greeks called themselves Hellenes , they still do . Romans called them Graeci . Did the Myceneans called themselves Hellenes too ?@@thli8472

[@Babis_Barmaxizoglou]

@@seaman5705 the only Hellines before Trojan war is the Selloi in Donona and Elloi of Achilles so from the Elloi...Ellhnes.Greece mean the old people before Kataklism.we have Greeks(Γρια Γερος=old)in Dodona,Arcadia,Attika=TanaGRAIA...and ftom tanagraia all land(Xalkida,Orchomenos,Thives,Kymh-Cumae) the Romans take the alfabet and gines us the name Greece.all those people...is Pelasgians

[@seaman5705]

@@Babis_Barmaxizoglou Very confusing . What I can conclude is that Greeks and Hellenes are not the same thing . Also Pelasgians is a very loose used term . If you can define what Pelasgian means , beyond your legends , will be helpful . For me Greek identity is given by the steppe people , which brought the language and established the first Greek civilization . Without them , there was nothing remarkable about old/Pelasgian/Greeks , whether they were Hunter Gatherers or Neolithic Anatolian farmers .

[@magdaw3123]

Oddly similar fate these Myceneans had to the Buddhists of India. Unification was key to survival. They key was doing it before your neighbor. Today we unify for the same reasons.

[@gerardmichaelburnsjr.]

The tablets found in Crete in Linear B confirmed that Mycenean Greek was closely related to the Greek of classical times. Invasions of that time period usually replaced many of the men of the earlier peoples, but far fewer of the women. Add Greeks afterwards said that the Invaders were related to the original inhabitants, attributing their invasion to them supposedly being sons of Hercules. Unlikely they would do that for outright foreigners.

[@rvanstar]

Time travel sound effects appreciated on opening .. Peabody

[@rvanstar]

Thrilled to see another wonderful, informative episode. Keep it up!

[@issith7340]

Before greeks there were dinosaurs, some apes, maybe, ither animals and dense forests. Greek s are the oldest nations of Europe, by very far.

[@IoannisMetaxas-hv9uf]

Minoan and Mycenians spoke Greek.

[@joanhuffman2166]

7:47 I know many blame the "Sea Peoples" for the bronze age collapse. I've also heard that a massive volcanic explosion triggered volcanic winter, which led to crop failures/famine, which led to political collapse, and large groups of refugees/brigands, ie sea peoples, and the collapse of civilization.

[@mrhotman6607]

Mycenaeans were Greeks too. The mystery can be resolved by the different waves of Greek tribes migrating to Greece on different times, last being the Dorians (around 1100 BC) Spartans have been Dorians for example. The real predecessors to Greeks have been the Pelasgians.

[@onkarvartak2077]

Overall good video, summarised view of who were the ancient Greeks! Did the battle of Troy happen during the Mycenian period? Because you mentioned few names from the battle

[@CyberUK]

Great video - subbing was a no-brainer.

[@beepboop204]

clearly it is the proto-Greeks who came before the Greeks 😜

[@virgiljjacas1229]

🤔🤔🤔 ... But ... I don't get it, academics stii cannot find anything a related language or dialect to Linear A and Linear B that will show a light on it, BUT academia again stated that those were business/financial transactions. HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT !!! 😮😮😮

[@LuDux]

They know because Linear B was deciphered in 1950s

[@АнтонПавлов-ц4з]

I am very interested, if LA and LB are Greek alphabets, why they are replaced by the Phoenician alphabet?

[@64788946]

In those times there’s a possibility that human Giant’s were around, would explain the ancient tombs and palaces that they were huge rocks and all . They probably went extinct cause either off to much war or not enough breading to sustain the DNA .

[@Harrier_DuBois]

Awesome, a new Professor video! My day just got better.

[@Maliique]

First

[@beepboop204]

first in the first

[@jackm2293]

❤🙏

[@telebubba5527]

That was really interesting. Gave more context to the history than I've seen before.

[@hishyamwahab1339]

Egyptian actually believe.. .. thm ancestors n sea people come frm same place ...or means frm same native...

[@andreapaza7687]

You have to go to Albania and then you can see pellazgian gigantic wall .

[@kyriakoszeibekis4829]

Ok Turkalbanian budalla

[@aa-xn5hc]

Beautiful lecture

[@emiliogonzales658]

Awesome video!

[@razisn]

Mycenaeans spoke Greek, so they were Greeks. Recent DNA studies shows both continuity and admixture between who they are called Pre-Greeks, the Mycenean Greeks and modern Greeks. There were people in Greece before 'Greeks' (indo-europeans) but these were not the Mycenaeans. Your definition of Ancient Greeks is both too narrow and unscientific.

[@virgiljjacas1229]

Again and before I forgot. They maybe a great civilization EXCEPT when it come to artistic representation. Their human depictions are children level by today standards.

[@dp6003]

I can disprove your rhetoric in a couple of sentences Amazing Academia

[@NS-mz8gq]

Especially because of all the earthquakes around there,the tomb of Agamemnon.So you would think that they might be Turkic because the word Aga comes from someone that is a leader Aga-memnon

[@subiazim4047]

That is a stretch

[@NS-mz8gq]

@@subiazim4047 don’t forget the winners write their own history

[@subiazim4047]

@@NS-mz8gqTo make yourself feel better maybe

[@LilBriskoTV_]

-memnon = mind The Mycenaeans ( Achaeans) were Pelasgjans. Homer says calls them Pelasgians as well as the Trojans(Dardanians)

[@NS-mz8gq]

@@subiazim4047 why me,just saying it like it is.There is so much more history that is not available just because the church doesn’t want to share with what they have been hiding in their Walt’s.We still don’t know how the church supported the Nazis during the Second World War let alone all the manuscripts that go all the way back.Releasing it now would show how they have lied to the people all these years.

[@SrdjanBasaric-w2s]

No one came before the Greeks, they have always been there, the Slavs, the largest and oldest tribe in the world, they just don't fit into the British version of history.

[@JazAcrossTheWorld]

Before the Greeks we were in Africa

[@kyriakoszeibekis4829]

What a nonsense 😊

[@SrdjanBasaric-w2s]

@@kyriakoszeibekis4829 What is nonsense?

[@kyriakoszeibekis4829]

@@SrdjanBasaric-w2s the British version of history

[@SrdjanBasaric-w2s]

@@kyriakoszeibekis4829 Yes, you got everything from the British, including history.

[@dp6003]

You don’t know what you are talking about With regards to this subject And you’re a Professor Stop being a follow, the leader Nice try ,but

[@Opa-Leo]

Indo-Europeaan theory has never been proven to be correct. The IE language is a hypothetical, a creation of I don't know who (please inform me if you know). Only 16-20 words are similar in several lanuages, wich could have been borrowed in the not so distant past. All babies say "mum" when they are hungry. There are no aphabet, no texts, no artifacts, no burial graves df IE peoplel. The whole thing is a theory. please treat it as such.

[@KeinsingtonCisco]

You could of dove into the religion more but good job otherwise ciao

[@ΉρινναΜαρίαΠετράκη]

You are completely wrong.

[@juansassi]

The myceneans are the ancient greeks lol😅

[@joanhuffman2166]

7:47 I know many blame the "Sea Peoples" for the bronze age collapse. I've also heard that a massive volcanic explosion triggered volcanic winter, which led to crop failures/famine, which led to political collapse, and large groups of refugees/brigands, ie sea peoples, and the collapse of civilization.