Greek Philosophy Before Socrates

Socrates, his student Plato, and Plato's student Aristotle are often credited with founding Western philosophy. Nevertheless, even great thinkers do not emerge ex nihilo, but rather are born into an existing context and paradigm that the build from, respond to, and react against. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place looks at the Pre-Socratic philosophers and how their ideas created the ground from which Socrates' own thought emerged.

[@17amreyes]

i listen to so many of the Centre Place talks i recognize the voices, and it was so cool to finally see the crowd, thanks tony

[@mikemcc6625]

This has got to be by invitation only and then, includes Us!-)

[@exoplanet11]

I felt so sorry for John, who clearly had a cough or something in his throat, after he got barraged with so many questions (and non-questions). Way to pull off a great lecture, JH!

[@UCANREACT]

Great lecture! You laid that out very clearly. Enjoyed it.

[@glenn-younger]

Well THAT put a lot into perspective, didn't it? Well done! The thing that strikes me is how, as humans in search for our understanding of the why and how behind the big picture, we're still looking for that one underlying "Principle": The key to EVERYTHING. We make premises. Connect mental dots. Test it out. Throw it out. Bring some back. Connect more dots. Test it out. Throw it out. And so we go along in our spiral of evolution. From the earlier premise of water being the underlying Principle to everything, today we're at quantum mechanics. That's really something, isn't it? If I had one wish for humankind it would be this: I wish we didn't have the tendency to be so doggone dogmatic at every step of our way. Oh, how that holds us back. Hopefully, we'll grow out of that, too. :-)

[@juliogadelhaparente]

I mean, How the heavens are you guys able to produce this much content in incredible depth every week?! Thank you John

[@juliogadelhaparente]

And centre place

[@stevelenores5637]

You need to read more. Get a set of the "Great Books of the Western World". $645 on Amazon.

[@juliogadelhaparente]

@@stevelenores5637 ok steve

[@annascott3542]

I was just thinking the same thing earlier today when I saw the lecture on Plato’s Republic in my feed. It’s amazing. I hope ir continues.

[@annascott3542]

^*it

[@jaredsayers9920]

Wow, what an absolutely fantastic lecture! Please keep producing this content. It is hard to find such detailed and clear lecture on presocratic philosophers, this was such a joy to watch!

[@fraser372]

I was privileged to encounter philosophy rather late in my life while previously I was living life with a mishmash of understanding that more times than not was contradictory but not entirely without value and thanks to philosophy and my imperfect understanding of it that philosophy has helped place so much of my life into a perspective. Having said that philosophy remains a constant in my life though I wander at times it’s reassuring to know that philosophy awaits my further exploration and implementation into my life.

[@nobodynowhere7163]

This man better be the head of The Classics Department in a major University.

[@exoplanet11]

Understood. Ironically however his specialty is much later in history, the Great Schism & medieval. A thoroughly comprehensive intellect!

[@fly_8659]

I'm really loving this presenter! There's a heap of great introductory items clearly presented!

[@Ketannabis]

Thank you for sharing this lecture!

[@MattFRox]

This channel, and of course it’s corresponding institution, has made me decide that I am definitely visiting Toronto soon. I would love to catch one of these lectures.

[@scambammer6102]

I wish they spent less time talking about fish

[@zyxyuv1650]

I hope there can be a lecture on Hermeticism.

[@runawayshay6409]

Let’s Talk Religion has a video on Hermeticism

[@annascott3542]

I love this channel!

[@Spellweaver5]

Empedocles is probably my favourite philosopher. Something about his idea of love and strife being the two opposing forces of the universe that can only be productive when they are in balance feels right, even if it's not a literally correct understanding of the world. I haven't seen any fantasy writer yet beat the kind of setting that Empedocles invented.

[@TeaParty1776]

Discovery of The Mind in Greek Philosophy And Literature-Bruno Snell Ancilla To The Presocratics-Kathleen Freeman

[@martinarreguy7789]

Philosophy, she has been my mistress every since the age of 35, I do love the pre-socractics for they contemplated natural phenomena and what it was to live a good life. But all of it is worth reading, looking at and ruminating over indeed.

[@mikemoreno3271]

Amen brother

[@piezoification]

So, who are you married to? Plato's Reublic stand out and Aristotle Nichommecean Ethics are the bellwethers of an investigation into the good life or happiness.

[@martinarreguy7789]

I love the Stoics, Seneca especially, all though he did not practice what what he preached, Marcus Aurelius is wonderful, and Montaigne is beautiful, I could go on and Heraclitus, Milesians, Xenophanes, Anaximenes and so on. Only to name of few, Plato is cool, Socrates speaks for himself. I love (philo) Los, (shophia) goddess of wisdom. Yes marriage being an analogy as I am sure you understand.

[@piezoification]

@@martinarreguy7789 perhaps you are a philanderer or divorced? Ultimately married to Epicurus with the philosophical schools presenting pleasurable dishes? 😀😃🙂 I think Nietsche called truth a mistress! He did not pay it too great a compliment but I am not sure any woman save one fared any better 😉.

[@martinarreguy7789]

Indeed, love your play with thoughts, but, no, quite happy married in this current matrix called life, here on this hologram called earth; we find ourselves in this present moment of exchange. As into anyone of them(philosophers) or to excessive pleasure, I have never done anything my spirit wouldn't feel. Be well my friend! 😌

[@adityasane3330]

Thank you so much for being!! ;)

[@d.russellmoros7841]

I have learned to understand the pre-socratics as the earliest known materialist philosophers as against superstition, mythology, speculation, philosophical idealism generally. That, to know the universe, all one had to do was study it with one's senses, with the aid of tools.

[@AgusPcb]

Good lecture

[@belomolnar2128]

The boundaries of Europe from East DON River to Lands End in West. Time 13:30 min of this Podcast. 🗽🗽🗽

[@andruwxx]

The thirsty dolphin thing. That would have crossed my mind in 1000 years. I love lectures like this where there’s knowledge all the way through.

[@belomolnar2128]

We have started our 2.600 years lasting Hegemony of Philosophy by New Year 2024. 🍀🍀🍀🕊🕊🕊🌍🌍🌍⛲️⛲️⛲️. First known philosopher Thales of Miletus was born in 624 before Our chronology, acc. to Brittanica. 🍀🗽❤️. One of the Seven Sages.

[@ZainalFaruq]

I want to ask one name of philosoph befor Socrates in Arabic (بندفليس) who is him? The literatur on book "terjemah Jawa sulam munawaroq" by Bisri Mustofa Rembang Indonesia.

[@tombouie]

Amazing

[@jimtaggert42]

thank you

[@charlesandrews2360]

I was always afraid of philosophy until I read a book called the history of philosophy I don't remember who wrote it but it was excellent for someone of my level. I'm hoping this lecture by an historian will be similarly educational and entertaining

[@Jabranalibabry]

Will Durant, I believe

[@LuisAldamiz]

Great exposition. I knew a philosopher in my youth who claimed that Greek philosophy ended with the presocratics, he was totally derisive of the socratic school (and he was probably right). Empedocles and Democritus would be today great scientists, well, they were in their day, I guess.

[@stevenv6463]

To play devil's advocate, Aristophanes' depiction of Socrates has him much more in line with the presocratics. Maybe a lot of what we read about Socrates in Plato is more Plato than Socrates.

[@guleidhasan816]

This is greatest philosophy I've ever came across + ropert nosock and rewls I use to go with my fellas and I'd always seem bestamistic all the time by their views but often with logic then would get angry when they noted their approach wasn't convincing anyone I latter stop challenging their arguments for better and I had no idea about Socrates, it was later on while I was taking online course political from COURSERA that I had known

[@richq11]

You missed Hesiod. When it comes to what constitutes a good life (ethics) none of the pre-socratics was more influential.

[@toaojackson7447]

In English we used to say wereman and woman to distinguish the genders. As in werewolf.

[@Donteatacowman]

Okay! I'm pausing at 1:16:53 to chew on this. I did listen to it twice. It sounds like maybe just the concept of "matter cannot be created nor destroyed." Parmenides isn't saying that stuff can't be changed, so instead of thinking of it as "a tennis ball cannot be created," instead "the base components that make up particles that make up the tennis ball can't be created out of nothing." When we say something does not exist, it's like saying the quantity is zero - true as a concept, but it's not countable. If "not existing" was a real, provable state, then the state itself would exist - making it something other than "not existing." So saying that something "doesn't exist" is an idea we have but it's not a real state of matter. If something does not already exist, it cannot cause itself to exist. So it's like... there was no point of creation where stuff didn't exist in some form, and then suddenly existed. Even, like as a for-instance, the Christian interpretation of the Biblical creation story. God always existed. The world always had the potential to exist because it was God's actions, therefore came from God's intentions, therefore came from God. In an atheist version, it's the same thing but without any stories - physical components have some kind of predecessor. There's no way that an empty void with no particles, thoughts, matter, etc., could develop matter without any kind of component or cause. Still kind of mind-bendy but only in the way that linear time normally is. I think that's what it means?

[@elodiesalgado4739]

You might have to start asking your audience to hold their questions til the end. Or at determined pauses. The interruptions disturbs the flow of ideas and drags the lecture. I miss the non audience days of Covid and that seems very wrong.

[@richarddelanet]

Just one point so far that needs clarification: Conservatism at least in the British understanding is NOT traditionalism and reactionary, those things are there own things; Conservatism via Edmund Burke is the idea to conserve that which is practical which works in the course of (normal) change that of course naturally occurs, rather than a wholesale clear-out change - such as the French Revolution - where everything is thrown out and replaced by something else entirely different.

[@naugrim]

Man was originally human in general and you wouldn’t have needed a neologism for males. Originally males were wereman and females were wifman. Wifman slowly changed to woman but the prefix wif- denoting female continued to live on as wife. Wereman just collapsed into man, but the prefix were- changed into forms like vir- still in use in words like virile meaning male/masculine.

[@hamnchee]

What is a fish? Arnold: *IT'S NOT A TUNA*

[@mintusaren895]

Samaras. It's an enchanting

[@RobertDMoore]

Cratylus, Hermogenes, Socrates and Epicurus are my favorites

[@piezoification]

One wonders at which point and whom among the elders will pull out a pirate's hat and lead a take over the lecture. We should put a serious study of philosophy forward and as early as possible in public schools so everyone can, if nothing else, get their personal 🤑 treasure out of their system.

[@ytb40]

Fantastic lecture! I was surprised however that the coughing lecturer was not immediately carried away by hysterical students and put into quarantine due to his seemingly obvious Corona infection ... ;)

[@HamerToronto]

This was recorded prior to COVID-19

[@donovanmedieval]

The Pre-Socratics. And if we've learned anything from Tom Weller, it's that there were no actuall Soratics except for Soctrates himself, who may or may not have existed. Which he would be the first to argue, if he were alive today.

[@christopheb9221]

From what I heard (or maybe read forget where) is that you can drink sea water if have too. the problem is people wait until they are dehydrated before drinking it which at that point your body cannot process the salt.

[@monkerud2108]

And i think at least that the joke is on you, because thats the core of parmenidies’s idea :p but due to the concept just as in kant, he or anyone else will struggle to explain it correctly end end up making category mistakes of their own and so we end up missenterpreting each other the world and ourselves no matter what we do, well at least to some degree :7)

[@monkerud2108]

Well you guys made just about as many category mistakes as you possibly could:p

[@thli8472]

If we want a monophyletic definition of fish, we could say that only ray-finned fish are fish. But then a shark is not a fish.

[@bigultrafunny9751]

May I add that the heads in the thumbnail look like chicken tenders if you're half blind like I am

[@DJRIffel]

someone get John some water for crying out loud. Between coughs, this content is RICH!!!!

[@bridboland8839]

Fumes from candles giving him a cough

[@monkerud2108]

No worries nobody gets these thing right, because the correct monism isn’t utterable in detail and your arguments are about things that are not fundamental to such a thing if its a consistent monism. And the arguments about “if its eternal, how could it be when it didn’t start” and all the alternative views and so on mentioned here are straight up simple category mistakes. I will not explain why because this is a comment section and I highly doubt you would get the picture + there isn’t the time to sort out all of your misconceptions. And i mean all of you, everything that was said in this video is pretty much rooted in errors as i said. And c’mon man, «these are the people who give philosophers a bad name?» that doesnt even mean anything.;).

[@piezoification]

To be somewhat intelligent and quiet - so hard for any sophomore and an aging boomer. Proves well the operative relevance of pre Socratic scaffolding for a contemporary cosmology. 😄 🤣 😂 smm!

[@xieouyang1341]

Is that Elizabeth the obnoxious now-it-all that is in every class?

[@darronhedges5873]

The first Greek philosophers were almost childlike in their approach,an acceptance of ignorance built in.

[@jounik8980]

Sun is water

[@neilt11]

Actually, we are still fish. That is we have evolved from fish and you can’t escape your heredity. See the book, “Your inner fish” by Neil Shubin.

[@Eris123451]

Why stop at fish ?

[@jeremymettler2785]

Like most of what you say educated guesser pretenders of understand guessers void in know deceiving self exactly

[@augustalexander8179]

Great lecture but man you say the word “so” more than anyone alive.

[@langreeves6419]

So

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Heman.

[@stevenv6463]

Man, Hamer just coughing into his hand is really bothering me here.

[@jeremymettler2785]

Michael my God given name I won't taste death out womb and in man born the living Son of Man won't taste death the untouchable living one the superman Michael my God given name procedure he says what pick a pretender of known to the ALL seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one isn't any of you question none guess know pretend to be known deceiving self exactly unknown

[@threeshocks5769]

When is a man like a fish?

[@piezoification]

When he isn't not like a fish, i.e.asleep and/or in the absence of fermented or distilled beverages..

[@byronfuentes1281]

The speaker has died from tuberculosis

[@delphinidin]

audience obsessed with marine biology, misses point

[@radisazivotic610]

Stop kalkin shat.