Forging A Knife Out Of Old, Rusty Japanese Knives

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Let's take these rusty, vintage, Japanese kitchen knives and try to forge them into a useful kitchen blade. Can they be salvaged?
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[@GreenBeetle]

Many are wondering if the edges were high carbon steel and the rest of these knives were iron or mild steel or perhaps they are san mai construction. Check out this video on testing this steel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnbccmePe8qVo68 Also people want to know why I didn't remove the rust chemically. The pitting had to go too.

[@_BLANK_BLANK]

Your probably right. Who knows what these were. Especially if you got one of those ebay lot of rusty japanese knives they sell. With a bunch of lower carbon blades.

[@MegaEvoluzione]

Why didn't you incorporate all the steel into one big billet?

[@matthewday7565]

Next time, try electrolytic de-rusting, though that would not help with the uneven surface

[@haroonasmal772]

Check out big dog forges video on an old Indian technique of creating high contrast Damascus using rusted steel. He used cast iron powder and borax to flux the steel. While it probably won't improve the edge retention it creates a very good contrast. It's well worth checking out

[@pr0faker]

One should wonder if they are really japanese knives or not just some chinesium knockoffs sold as those.

[@ncsaddlehunter77]

Still a fun project to watch even with limited material to work with. From the beginning I was wondering how it would have turned out if you sand blasted the steel to remove the rust and then canister welded with powdered steel to fill in the pitting. Possibly creating a random pattern in the final product. I don't have your knowledge so just an idea for severely rusted and pitted steel.

[@chasetoncain]

great use of that cross boundary grain growth! welding up mystery steels and heat treating them is absolutely beyond me it’s so interesting to see you work through so many problems and come up with something. keep it up!

[@GreenBeetle]

Hey ty man

[@FineCurry]

You're now he with the wisdom of four blacksmiths at once, godspeed

[@creekninja]

It’s low/medium grade tamahagane iron, the sword smiths would generally take the better steel and the townsfolk are left with the rest for making basic stuff

[@potatotr33]

10/10 thank you for putting this is a paid promotion on the screen. I appreciate you and I appreciate your transparency

[@KageStelhman]

Instead of using Holly in place of Ivory, you could use Paper Micarta (Faux Ivory)... that and you can make the latter yourself provided that you have a Vacuum Chamber... and Failing that you can always use the mold and clamp method

[@gundanium3126]

heat in a forge brush with a wire brush is how I get rust off the massively rusted leaf springs I tend to use.

[@JMS-2111]

Just to put it out there, I use salt and lemon juice/vinegar to get rust off of steel. Make a paste of it, rub it into the metal, then (after about 15-30 min) rinse it off if necessary repeat. Lemon has a better effect, but vinegar will do in a pinch.

[@robertshelton3796]

Looks absolutely gorgeous and I love that you left the scale on the heel the contrast between that and the different woods is amazing. Well done and thanks for sharing!

[@GreenBeetle]

Ty!

[@jackshields606]

A water quench might be either more productive or more destructive. Fun either way if you are a masochist.

[@brysonalden5414]

Glad you finally got to do a project you'd been looking forward to!

[@ilmbutton]

Loved this video Steve! I really like the handle colors and design with the presevedforge finish on the blade and ricasso. Thank you for continuing to make videos and share them! I really appreciate all the effort that goes into making the knives and the videos. Keep up the good work:)

[@brandonn2538]

All and all its a gorgeous knife. I never miss a GB video. One day if I ever financially recover from buying this house, I'm gonna have you make me a knife. Hello from Haworth Oklahoma!

[@GreenBeetle]

👋

[@ThePizzaGoblin]

Might I suggest next time using a chemical rust remover? That way you're not losing so much usable material via grinding the rust off. Then you could break the clean steel up and layer it into a canister with powdered steel to fill in the gaps. Hey presto, cool pattern.

[@kylebates3627]

Honestly, my favorite thing about blacksmithing is just taking a piece of unknown metal and finding out what it does. Sometimes it's a file, sometimes it's a rusty piece of round rod, sometimes it's cheap knives. But the journeys always fun, even if the destination isn't where you wanted to end up. Thanks for taking us along.

[@GreenBeetle]

🤌

[@chelsea9686]

With propane prices what they are... lol. Im glad you can

[@DatBoiOrly]

man i remember years ago trying this basically taking a bunch of kitchen knifes i got from the tip to make a longsword turns out my dreams were crushed since over 60% of the material i planned to use was wasted due to constantly cutting out defects such as poracity imperfect forge welds fractures esc esc i'm glad someone managed it ;)

[@lancemillward1912]

240 is the length of the blade. Good Japanese knives are either San mai or 2 layer. But they hardened up so that's sweet.

[@bromine4884]

i love when i see a "green beetle" video in my notifications ....love ur content man

[@vonWeizhacker69]

I'm gonna steal the grip design for my Trailmaster restoration!

[@brandon2076]

If you try this again, I think soaking the knives in Evaporust would save a lot of effort! It would get all the rust out of the pits so you wouldn't have to grind so much. Sandblasting would probably work well too

[@beezo2560]

Herculean effort my friend. The steel came up a little short, the handle has a small blemish. Sounds like my kinda knife because there's lotsa live in it. Well done.

[@GreenBeetle]

🙏

[@Dont_Poke_The_Bear]

That grain test, a real kick in the wrinkle beans.

[@GreenBeetle]

beans karate kicked

[@erikcourtney1834]

After the first knife test, I wonder if carbonizing it and /or water quenching it would have been a better option

[@GreenBeetle]

Water may have added a point or two. It's crappy kitchen knife steel and risking popped welds and warps to polish a turd just didn't seem worthwhile.

[@erikcourtney1834]

Yeah it would be quiet risky considering the weld troubles in the beginning. It’s a shame they wasn’t made of blue or white paper steel. 😔

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Interesting video, Steve! Certainly you learned a lot from it. It was fun to watch. 👍🏻

[@Pablo668]

Nice result in the end, despite all the problems. I'm sure you've done it already but re-bar hardens quite well and I have seen it used to make knives and tools.

[@tango-bravo]

Beautiful result!

[@MarkChuCarroll]

It's very common for japanese knives to use a sheated construction. It's not san mai, but a hardenable (but not *super* hard) steel on the outside, and then a very hard (but brittle and hard-to-temper) steel in the center. With that construction, you won't see sparking differences, because it's not the whole edge that's a higher carbon, but just the very center part. When you grind the tip, you're grinding both the sheathing steel and the center - and with that pitting, once you've gotten past the rust, you're probably also grinding a combination of sheathing steel and core steel.\

[@evilotis01]

the image of you standing and stroking your chin as you contemplate your cow's skull ... thing is deeply hilarious to me. it's the little things that make me love this channel :)

[@GreenBeetle]

🤌

[@Zogg1281]

Wow!!! Talk about challenging yourself! It might not be your best knife but I'm really pleased to see the whole process you went through as well as the care you put into it's final finish. For a extreme challenge the knife came off looking really nice and the amount you probably learned it was definitely worth it. You definitely get a 10 out of 10 for effort on this project 👍👍👍👍👍

[@InformationIsTheEdge]

18:15 That looks like enough material there for 4 handles like the one you ended with.

[@BrianS2464]

Love the handle combo

[@bzilch85]

You need a small blasting cabinet. Side bar not sure if it will help with projects like this. Was just a thought

[@chriss3886]

Steve, I for one appreciated the grain test. Reminds me of a Charpy V notch test for toughness. Brings back memories from Materials lab in school. Keep experimenting, to paraphrase Mr. Edison, “I have not failed 10,000 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 10,000 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work.”

[@howler6490]

All said and done steve, you learned a lot and got a nice wee vegie knife. Seems a reasonable outcome. Entertaining video, well done.

[@scottblesi2469]

That knife is so cool , I'd use it in my kitchen all day . Nice work nice vid.

[@gabehartman6832]

A very beautiful creation.

[@_BLANK_BLANK]

This is a cool idea. I'm sure they were all san mai. Likely either iron clad, or mild steel, on the outside. That's what I would assume anyway. I'm going to assume a random assortment of blue 1 or 2, and white 1 or 2 or 3, and maybe even some yellow 1 or 2. Edit, I think I would have done a 1600 normalization, then maybe the 2 lower temp cycles just to be extra safe. Edit 2 Don't take this as me criticizing btw, you did a better job than I would have with this by far.

[@Zach-ku6eu]

Just a battle of diminishing returns!

[@jacobbrown7367]

I'd suggest checking out Shurap, he did a similar build with mystery knives, way worse than these, almost all.of his are canister builds, which I think is going to be your best bet for material preservation and overall success of welds

[@lightspeedvictory]

I have seen some other “KZbin blacksmiths” use some form of faux ivory. Might want to use that if you’re looking for an ivory substitute. From what I’ve learned from watching KZbin videos, for blades like these it’s best to put them through a hearth remelter to refine the metal back to a usable state

[@GreenBeetle]

I used faux ivory micarta in the video I mentioned and it didn’t behave well. Super Tisk is supposed to be the best but no one can find it right now so users suggested Holly wood which sounded neat. Yeah a full melt is the way to go.

[@STUFFWEDO]

Came out very nice. Thank you for sharing

[@user-le9qt5te3x]

0:45 If you have a furnace and a crucible, you can scrape the rust off (assuming you can get enough) and melt it into a highly contaminated steel ingot. But with enough Borax and some patience, you can make fold that rusty ingot into some nice steel. If you're desperate like me for material, with how high the cost of steel is, you'd be surprised how much material you can get from doing something like that if you have the patience lol.

[@stephenjohnson6841]

Very cool looking knife! Especially for what you started with. Thanks for sharing!

[@kelvinog6164]

that was a really cool projekt! i got to try it sometime.

[@stevenwest1494]

Looks great, and actually functional unlike sooo many things I see produced by blacksmiths, like straight razors, created by people who've never used a straight razor before...

[@GreenBeetle]

Hey I made a few of those straight razors! 😀

[@joshschneider9766]

The Japanese character on the handle was probably the makers mark. Seki city in Japan has a huge community of knife makers. Would see if a Google lens search leads to a maker.

[@franotoole2702]

Turned out well all told. Holly will actualy turn grey. Not sure if it stays light when stableised tho. Looks very nice.

[@marcosvilardi2085]

When you tap the pommel you are inserting the blade deeper, the correct removal/insertion tapping is always counter-intuitive.

[@zirconia21]

Might have been a good time to take up working with resin and made some neat wall art...

[@theriversexperience9383]

Success or not... I love it when you do videos like this lol.

[@joshschneider9766]

Upon further reading, it appears many of the Japanese forges are little mini factories along with Alot of other Japanese industries. A huge number of them recycle scrap using little bloomery setups. Even the makers may not have known what's up with these.

[@cavemanvi]

Sandblaster would be an investment to the shop and the videos 🪲

[@D00MTR33]

I really like the size and knife shape. Maybe do one from better steel. Great stacked handle too.

[@tikkidaddy]

Videos like this one are why I have used EEZOX since 1987. No I do not sell it. I just loathe rust and corrosion😆

[@jareddaley3671]

You should try to put the rusty knives in molasses and water. Leave in a bucket for a few weeks and it will come out clean

[@andrewsmith1520]

Cool experiment, and that handle couldn't have been prettier!

[@tinkeringaround6241]

Great job , You have grit to keep going when the situation doesn’t look optimal.

[@jonnybooks9337]

Even with all the obstacles, it still turned out to be a not-at-all-bad-lookin' little pairing knife.

[@bigernbladesmith]

The stamps on the handles are length of the knife in mm I think.

[@GreenBeetle]

oh yeah good call

[@gvozdencekicevic1322]

I was expecting Electrolysis, but it was interesting to see how much material could be harvested.

[@jeremycurtis1075]

I would say next time you try it again do a rust removal method, from what I have seen I prefer the electrolysis method for control

[@nickaschenbecker9882]

This was a very cool project and perhaps worth revisiting if you come across more recyclable knives.

[@chrispiearcy]

Well at least it was a fun experiment. Keep up the good work.

[@MillerWB87]

I think this is a good size as a paring knife.

[@jarlove]

Fun project 😁

[@ValhallaIronworks]

This is a super cool idea!

[@b2bogster]

Once again rabbit out of the hat! Learning from your experiments and so did I. Thank you! Can't wait for the next one!

[@ferret150]

"A little bit shy on our size goal", that's what she said.

[@professionalidiots101]

Still looks beautiful mate.

[@DeclanBurger]

Hope your feet are still gloved up for safety Beetle, keep it up! The handle looks awesome man

[@benmacdhui]

What a cool project. Even though I don't know much about knife making, still just dig watching these videos

[@clydecox2108]

A + for effort. As always entertaining and as I watched, my mind kept drifting back to " where the heck did someone have those knives stored "? Anyway if I run across an old busted up Japanese katana I'll send it to you. Hope your having a great weekend...

[@GreenBeetle]

👍

[@ant848]

You could've made a yakut knife from it. I'm not sure about the name - those parallel-convex knives indigenous people of the North use. I think, they need less grinding, so less material waste.

[@jeremywhiner]

You might be inducing some "grain elongation" by hitting the sample multiple times. Typically when you fracture a sample for grain size, you want to fracture it with one strike to reduce this effect. I'm not honestly sure how much it matters, just the standard practice I'm familiar with.

[@GreenBeetle]

Oh I see cool ty

[@johnjacobs8568]

Well I think it is beautiful!

[@Charlielizard]

What about electrolysis to keep from grinding away good with the rust. Cut them up and put in a good sized canister? With powdered steel to fill the gaps.

[@danielwainwright7113]

A small knife but I love the profile - now on my to do list!

[@TimParker-Chambers]

Mystery-metal it may be, but the outcome looked fantastic 👍👍👍👍 It's almost a bit late to suggest this, but, perhaps it would be of help for you in future projects, if you were to try something similar... If you had used electrolysis to get rid of the rust from the blades, you might have been able to salvage more of the metal for the new billet, rather than grinding away all that material, to get back to the unrusted layers... I hope that suggestion may be of help to you 👍👍👍👍

[@TalRohan]

All I can think right now apart from "thats a good looking little knife" is well done for getting anything out of that lot at all, never mind the attractive knife you managed.

[@GreenBeetle]

Ty

[@timhvac6869]

Looks great as usual 😊

[@davidhenderson4599]

Clean and etch the blades, find out which ones are steel welded to wrought iron. Go from there.

[@Novur]

Your principal issue in a lot of these experimental videos is oxidation; have you considered electrically heating? I've seen induction loops that heat metal EXTREMELY fast in open air. Might be something to look at!

[@RickD5468]

I looked at those knive, the pitting and rust made me think of salvaging it as wootz steel. Maybe next time it's time for a crucible experiment.

[@GreenBeetle]

Yep that’s a great idea

[@RickD5468]

I got to thinking about it even more and thought about damascus cutoffs in a crucible and what that wootz pattern would look like.

[@BirdTho]

wondering if rust removal, or just heating the rusty blades could help you remove the rust as scale?

[@lucipurrr8603]

Imma long time subscriber, I love your work. I especially enjoy binge watching the videos I’ve missed over the last few months due to busy work schedule. Have you seen the laser pecker engraving laser? I want one

[@GreenBeetle]

I saw a little blurb I didn’t spend much time looking at it.

[@robertshelton3796]

Watching for years finally got a glimpse of Steve. I'd totally put one of those cattle skulls up in my office and my wife would totally divorce me over it.

[@GreenBeetle]

😎

[@supermannyg3]

Fun.

[@danbob9762]

Love the work as always Steve and how you always seem to come up with another original metal medium for a knife. Wondering if you’ve ever been interested in making a smaller full tang neck knife, similar to Murray carter of carter cutlery. Always loved his style of Japanese bladesmithing and his sharpening videos! Lots of love and happy 4th July!

[@GreenBeetle]

Ty brother! Ive only made a few neck knives. One is obligated to make a sheath with them which is my least favorite thing.

[@Hydrazine1000]

Next time perhaps use 30-33% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) at room temperature to pickle the oxides off? That will be much more material efficient, compared to grinding. Finding hydrochloric acid will be pretty easy. Finding the other ingredient for safe pickling, pickling inhibitor, might be more difficult, if you need only a small amount. A pickling inhibitor adheres to steel, slowing the attack of the acid significantly, but it doesn't adhere to any of the iron oxides, meaning the combination of acid and inhibitor will clean rusty blades, yet preserve the metal. It needs around 1% by volume, compared to the 30% concentrated hydrochloric acid. (For background: I was a process engineer at a steel wire pickling line, I know a bit about the process.)

[@ambsquared]

I wonder how much steel would have been saved with Evaporust instead of grinding. Maybe sand blasting vs. grinding could save more metal too.

[@GreenBeetle]

Rust is a problem but so is the pitting which must be ground out

[@missourisavage7195]

Japanese kitchen knives tend to be mostly iron with a carbon steel billet welded to one side then forged out. Iron rusts faster and deeper than steel so... everything you saw in your process makes absolute sense. Look up videos on traditional Japanese kitchen knife forging.

[@GreenBeetle]

Alot of people are saying something similar but iron doesn't harden to 57 HRC or spark

[@colsoncustoms8994]

With how it rusted and the carbon content, I’d guess they were a pattern welded with a hard core and very low carbon cladding. You could have + 1% carbon in the core but if it only makes up 30% of the blade total, and the rest is 1018, you’re looking at like .45 carbon total. Although, with how you ground them, the cladding was removed and you should have been left with mostly the (higher %) core. Could have been stainless steel of some kind, people don’t think it rusts but it do. Could also just be old bumpers and soup cans, who knows.

[@Ta2edfreak]

soaking in vinegar and then wire wheeling might have helped more.

[@dathaniel9403]

12:25 nice smiley face :-)

[@MCsCreations]

Really beautiful work, dude! The knife turned out fantastic! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@bjf10]

What a great project! Thanks for sharing.

[@bjf10]

Quick question though: I wonder how this would have worked if you'd used evaporust (or something like it - vinegar?) instead of going right to the grinder?

[@MrChainsawAardvark]

Does it every work out to just melt the steel down again and cast a new homogenous ingot? Is such equipment even available to smaller shops? I see people online making liquid copper/aluminum/bass quite often, but what does it take for cast iron or more? I'm very impressed you took a risk on a project with so many unknowns, and the end product looks pretty nice.

[@PackHunterGD]

Would have made a folder out of it was plenty enough steel imo to push out a decent blade for it

[@PackHunterGD]

Don't get me wrong turned out Great 👍

[@tyttuut]

Can someone edit this to add the "bonk" sound effect with every hammer blow? It would be much appreciated.

[@systemsrenegade9888]

Have you tried industrial jack hammer points to make a knife would the steel be good enough for it.