Plato's dialogue, the Meno (part 1) - Introduction to Philosophy

[@IsaacTLinder]

Professor Sadler, in following along with your self-study video, as one who has no academic background (but has studied many, many things on my own), I have to say you have hooked me more firmly on the study of Philosophy. Not only that you are a fantastic teacher! A great Virtue! I really look forward to reading Plato (and others) and following along with your lectures. This is where technology really shines as a great benefit to humankind, in my humble opinion. Thank you for providing these lectures! I've become a huge fan.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome! I'm actually going to be starting some online classes in various formats -- I'll have some videos about those coming up soon

[@IsaacTLinder]

Gregory B. Sadler Great! As these are very valuable, I'd totally 'subscribe' to such a series. I realize that this a big investment of time, knowledge, and possibly technical resources. I took the online "Introduction to Philosophy" course at EdX (MIT) and it was good, but I find much more affinity with your teaching style. I'll be looking forward to your new classes and lectures.

[@IsaacTLinder]

Isaac T. Linder By 'subscribe' I meant monetarily, not just that I'd click a button :-)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Isaac T. Linder Sounds good -- I'll be doing what you might call "advertisement" videos for those, that will give people who might want to "put the cash on the barrel," a solid idea about what they'd be getting for the expense. The first will be coming out this week -- for my Oplerno Existentialism class, which starts Feb 1

[@thegodfigure]

I'm a mathematics student at University of Texas at Dallas. I have been intrigued by philosophy for years. Your lectures have been extremely valuable in aiding me in my extracurricular philosophy readings. I really appreciate what you are doing and always look forward to your videos!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks! I'm always glad to read that the lectures help someone tackle the thinkers and texts!

[@theunnoticable6780]

I find it helpful to read the discussed dialogue twice or more before watching your videos. It helped with Meno and Ion so far.

[@GregoryBSadler]

That's the way to do it

[@GregoryBSadler]

the first of the videos from my Introduction to Philosophy course, centered on dialogue and dialectic, from this semsester

[@rageblanket2139]

I literally re scheduled my calendar to open enough time to go thorough your videos in proper order! I happen to think I will die when my mind stops and philosophy is one of the paths to immortality! Thank you so much!

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Rage Blanket You're very welcome. Now, that is dedication!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome -- not entirely happy about the camera shift, since we lose a bi of the chalkboard! -- but I very much appreciate the comment

[@jeonghojeong5421]

My major is Christian apologetics. I have been reading many philosophy books because philosophy is one of the best ways to understand the world and people, even God. I ,by a chance, found your youtube lecture. It is amazing and very helpful to me. Thank you Dr. Gregory B. Sadler. God bless you. I hope to show you my achievement someday. Thanks again.

[@jimmybalzac6021]

lol, what achievement?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Did I forget to answer this? I'd say that there's a lot of classic sources you could look at. If you want to start with some stark contrasts, I'd say look at Aristotle's discussion of the great-souled person in Nich. Ethics bk. 4 (not humble!) -- then for contrast at some Christian thinkers, like Augustine, Benedict of Nursia, Anselm, Pascal -- then read Hume's discussion of it in his Treatise on Human Nature. That'll get you started. I ought to put together something like a sourcebook

[@AdrianFrent]

I am currently taking a gap year and I'm using your videos to keep studying (I also do the readings). Thank you very much!

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Adrian Frent You're very welcome!

[@GainingUnderstanding]

Well done, Dr. Sadler :) You do a good job of bringing out the main points and making them clear. This is helping me better understand the Meno. Thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I would say that the way I organize the class, the reading selections I have them engage with must inevitably reflect what I consider to be of philosophical value. I do end up saying some of the things I think in digressions, reflections, responses to student questions from time to time. I would say that I see my highest responsibility as that of teaching the material well to the students -- making it possible for them to see the world, self, others, God, etc. through Plato's, etc. eyes

[@ninja1man4u]

Thank you sir for your informative lecture. Just found your lecture and you are LEAGUES above my current Philosophy professor at CSUSB

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Alex Orozco Glad it was useful for you!

[@sherylbyrd8934]

We are very fortunate to have a teacher who is kalos kai agathos who engages his students in dialectic and thought even on a chalkboard. Today, pedagogy seems to have lost out to death by powerpoint.

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Sheryl Byrd Well, to be fair, there's a lot of push by administrators in some places to have their profs use powerpoint -- it's easy to load into the course management system, to track, etc.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'm glad you find it helpful

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you liked it!

[@SamirKhan-yy5gy]

I like how he contextualises the content of the Meno to our modern-day lives. It makes more sense that way :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad it was helpful for you!

[@brendafluitt5783]

Professor Sadler, I got hooked on Philosophy, Thank you

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad to help you into a healthy addiction!

[@GregoryBSadler]

I don't think in this one that's the case. There is the little bit of playful flirting where Socrates tells Meno that good looking people like comparisons to be made, because they come out well in them. But, there's nothing like what you find in the Symposium or the Charmides in this dialogue

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, what you're describing is Socrates managing to catch Thrasymachus in contradictions that arise out of his doctrine -- not the other way around. It's not actually until book 4 that Socrates will systematically set out what his own views on justice actually are.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, I think that was indeed Socrates' -- and Plato's position -- namely that nobody desires evil knowing it to be such, precisely as evil. I actually differ from them on that, and hold a position much more like Aristotle's

[@GregoryBSadler]

Not sure where you see Thrasymachus catching Socrates contradicting itself -- that would be quite surprising, given that most scholars see the converse happening in book 1 of the Republic

[@GregoryBSadler]

That's unfortunate -- it's a great dialogue, but not one I'd likely try to assign to an Intro class myself.

[@GregoryBSadler]

All you need to do is to go to my channel, and click on playlists.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I would suspect that the difference is that I really like Plato and spend a good bit of time each year rereading his works, expecting to get more out of them each time (and not being disappointed) -- whereas many profs, once they've got their schtick down about Socrates and Plato, just stick with that.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I suppose if I wanted to emphasize my own point of view, I could do so. But, I tend not to do that -- I focus on helping my students develop understanding of the matters being studied

[@mrnettek]

Thank you for this course. I am an aspiring Philosophy student, and I appreciate the extra education.

[@CaptainJasa]

Another great video Here a great recommendation Melvyn Bragg off the south bank show here in England does a great radio show on BBC radio 4. You can find the pod casts on BBC radio 4 website there are lot off pod casts covering nearly everyone including the Greeks and even the really obscure such as the Malthusianism. I got in to all these topics through Dr Sadler videos on critical thinking and from there I got in to Plato and all the other great thinkers in philosophy.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I have to admit generally quit paying much attention when I read people trying to make some sort of distinction between "ethics" and "morals" Virtue is not simply a process, but does involve processes

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome

[@karinaivanova5439]

This was really helpful. Thank you for sharing with your lectures

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Karina Ivanova Glad to read it was helpful for you!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, since you bring it up -- it's interesting to note that Socrates himself suggests that he doesn't have knowledge about these matters (like, what knowledge is!) towards the end of the Meno

[@PhizzyEssence]

Interesting that you all mention and discuss Socrates being humble. I always have this sense that his humility is somewhat insincere, more like a teaching technique or even a ploy, as opposed to a true virtue. If you will excuse a dated modern reference, he reminds me a bit of Lieutenant Columbo, or maybe it is chronologically more appropriate to say that Columbo reminds me of Socrates.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@Anna-zm6dp]

Very useful material for a teacher. I like this method of inquiring students and provoking them to think, but it seems that a teacher should know a lot to really convey information to students in this way and he has to always know the "direction" of all this inquiry. A very very difficult thing to do... (and it would be great to be so skilled - i.e. virtuous).

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, that's one of the problems I see with teachers in the present. Many of them focused far too much on ed theory, and not enough on mastering their subject-matter

[@Anna-zm6dp]

Well, in my place (10 years ago at least) people would start to teach as PhD students without any notion whatsoever about how to teach (neither theory, nor - understandably - practice). Having to teach as a PhD student, one could follow one's teachers who used to be in a similar situation but most of the time they would not be good examples. I still remember guys who would just come to class, open a book, read a sentence or two and ask students to figure out the meaning of the sentence. And then - silence for half an hour or so... ;) Anyway, thank you for all your videos, I find them immensely helpful.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well if Peter Singer thinks so. . . No, virtue ethics is a considerably more robust family of moral theories that goes beyond the inadequate consequentialist/non-consequentialist that a number of people in Ethics are attracted to, including Utilitarians like Singer

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, it is possible that he knows more than he appears to, and yet is, on the whole humble. Why do you think he isn't?

[@PhizzyEssence]

I agree with you. I don't feel like I have a clear picture of what humility is. Do you have any suggestions of resources where I can learn more about it?

[@Patiste96]

Wow ! Some learning, thank you Gregory B.Sadler

[@GregoryBSadler]

Rarely. Why?

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome

[@Ilyasibnyaqoob]

Thankyou Dr. Sadler.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome

[@Nelsjourn]

I enjoy your videos immensely but, Can you produce a list or can you give some direction into which order of your videos one can see and study without jumping out of sequence as to not wind up confused? I would definitely enjoy them and get more clarity if there is some kind of order. If there is an order to them can you state them or direct me to the video that does put them in order? Thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yep -- in order to adequately understand virtue, one has to develop an at least rudimentary account of a number of other ideas

[@caioambrosiolage]

Great video! I really enjoy watching.... I'm trying to have a good knowledge (not just a true belief :D) of this book; I'm studying deeply this book and your video helped me to get some enlightment of some parts. thanks a lot. keep up with the good work

[@YoussefMohamed-hn3vo]

Hello professor, are the students expected to read the dialogue before or after the lecture?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Both, of course. And suggested, rather than expected. They're adults

[@YoussefMohamed-hn3vo]

@@GregoryBSadler thanks 🤩

[@mohamedyusuf2479]

I am very interested in the logical side of philosophy and was wandering if you could recommend any works or philosophers that could help me Lea n this.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Mohamed Yusuf There's plenty of resources readily available for free out there, just a Google search away.

[@Paljk299]

Thanks for this. I'm enjoying reading the dialogues very much now, really getting into them. At the end of this lecture you talk about virtues and the good. I was wondering do you think virtue ethics include/need some kind of consequentialism to help define the good? I recently heard Peter Singer suggesting something like this in a book or a lecture, so it's on my mind.

[@DotDotDotjr]

Barney style. Chiefs and Indians. Prior service indeed. Overall, the students seem very bright and inspired! Virtue is a tough topic - it seems to open the gates for an infinite number of philosophical subjects.

[@Philbert-s2c]

I have a question about translations. Most of mine are the Benjamin Jowett versions. Is that acceptable or do I need to find a better translation?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Anyone can use any translation they want. It's not like there's rules for that, or as if the philosophy police are going to come along and go after you for using an older translation

[@Philbert-s2c]

@@GregoryBSadler No but I was just wondering if some translations are so poor that it's not worth the time. Jowett is a bit old but I can understand his phrasing just fine. I'm afraid my classical Greek is a bit....well, nonexistant.

[@GregoryBSadler]

@@Philbert-s2c Sure, there's some bad ones out there, but usually as outliers. Not something I spend much time looking for or thinking about

[@Philbert-s2c]

@@GregoryBSadler Fair enough. I'm all set then.

[@alexmathews070177]

Thank you Sir, looking forward to learn from your videos. Thank you once again.

[@solobatum311]

Question sir...Do you find yourself “going along to get along”, accepting what others say w/o critical, honest evaluation?

[@solobatum311]

it is because someone ask me that question and i can't answer it... can u please help me?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks!

[@autodidacticseaturtle7955]

Hey, this is great stuff! I just started reading Plato and I'm planning on sticking with him for a while and following your lectures while reading him. Is this a good way to do philosophy, to state myself maybe more clearly: Should I follow the history of philosophy by first reading a lot of Plato, then reading Aristotle, then the Stoics and Epicureans and so forth, like you would (or as I have) in litterature so as to understand the fuller context of the philosophers following each other historically? Or would you reccomend some other way of going about reading philosophy? I'm currently doing a BA in comparative literature and I'm planning on doing a BA in philosophy starting this August :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

I think starting with the ancients, and spending a good bit of time with them makes good sense

[@autodidacticseaturtle7955]

Thanks for your answer, and for making philosophy accessible for so many people!

[@PhizzyEssence]

Actually, I am glad you asked that question because it forced me to think through why I had this initial gut reaction. I think it is because provocative behavior is not behavior I expect from a humble person. Socrates displays a lot of provocative behavior and that makes me suspicious of his humility.

[@alexhoustontexas1983]

Do you think that Socrates really mean that no one desire evil? Thanks! great lecture!

[@GregoryBSadler]

No, I haven't taught any of that material for years

[@CaptainJasa]

I just finished reading the Meno and the Protagoras and I was amazed with the amount of content in both books especially the Meno. My question is an example from the Meno when Socrates shows how the servant had an innate knowledge of mathematics, so are Humans born with an innate ability to harness untapped knowledge or are they the Steven Pinker model of the blank state. I know that the in the meno Socrates attributed the untapped part to the soul but I have been in situations when someone who has never displayed any knowledge on a particular subject would then all of a sudden have a eureka moment and that they had this innate knowledge in them all they needed was something like what Socrates did was show them a puzzle and see if they can figure it out. P.S Jonathan Haidt in his latest book the Righteous Mind brings up an example of how babies that are three to four months old can distinguish between what’s right and wrong which fits in with what Plato was writing about.

[@GregoryBSadler]

So, a lot of stuff there. First off, as far as I understand him, Pinker's "model" of the mind as a blank slate is basically a commonplace of much older British Empiricism. Their view is that all knowledge is derived from experience or reflection upon experience -- and they were opponents of any views of knowledge as in any way innate. Plato's view of innate knowledge is rather different than later thinkers who sued such a notion, like Descartes (who the Empiricists were targeting). Really, when one gets down to it, what we know, for Plato, are ultimately the forms -- and our knowledge of them is rather hazy to say the least, even when we are experiencing memory of what we'd forgotten. . . that is, until, through dialectic we consolidate that knowledge and properly orient ourselves through contemplation towards the forms. As for Haidt and that book -- I'd say he's considerably far off from what Plato was talking about. I'd also say that it's not actually "morality" in any substantive sense that these neuro- people are discussing (though they think they are) -- it's merely the rudiments or certain elements of morality. But, that's a topic for a much longer conversation.

[@CaptainJasa]

Gregory B. Sadler Thanks for your great response Dr Sadler, I only just started down this path off reading actual philosophical texts a year ago and so far it has been a treat in terms of understanding the content because when I read Aristotle or the works of Plato it makes a lot of sense because the topics they mention are still questions that have yet to be answered today. The Meno for myself was such a great book right of the bat as Socrates constantly kept on challenging Meno points on virtue. Just today I got my copy of Plato Gorgias which I’m planning on reading later tonight. Thanks for the videos as the lectures are a great guide to the texts as it adds to the enjoyment of reading them.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'm glad to read that the videos add to the enjoyment of reading the texts themselves -- that's something quite good

[@JozefLewitzky]

From the back of Pinker's "The Blank Slate" (Subtitled 'The modern denial of Human Nature'): "Pinker argues that the doctrine that the mind has no innate traits... denies our common humanity and our individual preferences" -- The book is in fact a defense of the modern cognitive science thought, that the mind is definitely a mixture of genetic, cultural and enviromental factors which cannot simply be shaped to one's whim, ala a tabula rasa.

[@johhnytreason69]

I suppose the overt topic is virtue, but really is it not about how we learn and define concepts? Or knowledge? There is more talk about how we can know virtue then virtue itself. It seems to me to be more about the nature of philosophical inquiry and how we acquire knowledge after Meno and Soc decide that virtue is a kind of knowledge. At the end Soc explains how we could know virtue even though he is not satisfied with his god explanation, and we are left wanting a definition of virtue.

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Tadpole McSqueeze Yes, there are - as I say in the video lectures - multiple questions/issues examined in this dialogue. You can say the same for most dialogues. . .

[@johhnytreason69]

Thanks for all your videos! Inspiring me to make some myself about the things I learn, hopefully to recall the information better and also maybe pass something on.

[@mienamohammadi3478]

Did that guy just say he didn’t like his job cuz there was too many Indians?? Or did I hear wrong at 43:10

[@GregoryBSadler]

"Too many chiefs, not enough Indians". Gotta listen to the whole phrase. An expression in common use, meaning too many people giving orders, not enough actually doing work

[@colo1491]

in fact, the explanation of "torpedo" -> "electric ray" is absolutely accurate. The explosive device was named in reference to the electric ray [0]. Btw - These lectures are great, thank you for uploading them! [0] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo#Etymology

[@GregoryBSadler]

You’re very welcome

[@GregoryBSadler]

Not really the place for that sort of question -- and I've given you my own answer to it: Rarely

[@nuqleo]

thanks for another great lesson

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I wouldn't expect the newspapers to talk much about virtue -- but they're not the entirety of society

[@LLMresearch]

Virtue is recognising your strengths and weaknesses.

[@GregoryBSadler]

That is a component of some of the virtues, yes.

[@LLMresearch]

@@GregoryBSadler I just sent you a request to connect on Linkden. Love your tutorials too. I’m currently reading Plato’s Meno . Socrates is hilarious and I feel mocking Meno.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You must have sent the LI request to one of the many other Gregory Sadlers

[@LLMresearch]

@@GregoryBSadler I just checked and I had followed you rather than send a request.

[@Nelsjourn]

Thank you. This is perfect.

[@fightthepowermedia3158]

Do you cover the subject of Islamic Philosophy?

[@justamoteofdust]

49:30 what did that girl say?

[@GregoryBSadler]

She said "nevermind"

[@albertojimenez1247]

I wish my philosophy teacher taught as you do. Or at least taught anything

[@GregoryBSadler]

Sorry you got stuck with a bum teacher

[@ridicule1313]

good stuff :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Perhaps you're mistaking humility for something else, something that is only a shadow of it. . . . Then, of course, you'll see Socrates that way. Genuine humility -- and it's not the Greeks or Romans who really do much work in exploring what it consists in, but Jewish and Christian thinkers -- involves grasping one's true condition and role. Socrates -- and he could have been wrong about this, of course -- took it as his role to be as he put it, a "gadfly" to his fellow citizens

[@usmanghani9515]

Right at the start, when Meno asks Socrates about the virtue, why does Socrates make fun of him? Like “O you Thessalians were just famous for riches and horses, but now you are also seeking wisdom!”

[@GregoryBSadler]

Friends can joke around with each other, I suppose

[@gda295]

...................and thnx for all the papers that you upload [ some of which look extremely tempting from this layperson's general reading point of view, which for me includes religious matters, esp. Catholic [ capitalised] having been born into that faith.....also the self schooler one/s [I prefer that term to 'adult learner' for some reason!] I was actually quite surprised when I found out about them via Academia.edu when killing a minute by going through my google email box yesterday............[!!]

[@GregoryBSadler]

you're welcome -- yes, Academia.edu is becoming quite a universe of papers and resources from academics all over the place