Plato's dialogue, the Apology - Introduction to Philosophy

[@MrDuexx]

I started watching these videos for clarification in my philosophy class, but now I just watch them for enjoyment. Thank you for these videos

[@NewtonsMom]

I was searching for "Greek philosophy" lectures. Tried one from Yale and one from Stanford and...guess what....you are a WAY better speaker and better teacher than those 2 I tried from those famous universities (famously expensive!!). Thanks for the great lesson!

[@dgester]

Dr. Sadler, I admire your patience in teaching and continue to enjoy the substance of your lectures. Thank you.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Do I remember my first Intro class in Philosophy? Yes, it was over 20 years ago, and I had an old, German professor who was as sleepy in an 8 AM class as I was (I asked him once why he scheduled morning classes, and he said: so I can get those out of the way, and then get on to my real work) I understood the prof well enough, at a surface level -- but I was pretty self-driven to dig into the texts. Looking back on it, my own assumptions placed obstacles in the way of understanding the texts

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks! Glad you liked it -- and that you're going on to other videos

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're quite welcome. Yes, the interactive web stuff allows us to connect up profs/teachers with those interested in learning, in new ways, outside of the university. I'm glad to be able to contribute

[@Alexisaboard]

Thank you for making these videos available. I'm taking Philosophy 101 online this summer (to finish up my philosophy minor before I graduate next month!) and our assignments are just to read the dialogues and write papers about them. I'm an auditory learner, new to Plato/Socrates, and my professor is not providing much supplementary material. I appreciate this more than you know!

[@GregoryBSadler]

flashyandfabulous Glad that you're finding the videos helpful.

[@lailaalkassabi3933]

You posted this 9 years ago 🤍 and I’m watching this now thank you sooooo much

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, that's a problem -- assuming students already understand the material. Glad that the video helped

[@woodrowdunn]

My Philosophy classes are once again enjoying your excellent lectures and this assists them for university preparation. Thank you!

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Woodrow Dunn You're welcome! Glad to read it!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I'm glad to hear the videos are helping you get a good grounding in Philosophy before you head into it in university classes -- one heads-up: instructors are all over the map about what they teach and how they teach it, so it might bear only slight resemblance to what I'm doing in my own classes

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome! Well, you can keep studying these philosophical texts for years, and never exhaust them, so, it's not a surprise to find that there's some things that got missed in your coursework. I know from the other side of it just how much we instructors find ourselves having to leave out, just to keep the class on track.

[@MrAnthonyVance]

While I have studied Philosophy in my youth, and in college, nevertheless, I continue to find much enjoyment in your intro lectures. I like, Professor Sadler, that you dignify your students and that your "feeling tone" is always congenial and inviting for your students. Keep up the organized sequential instruction. You keep us focused that way. You do this retired educator proud. Incidentally, your lectures are a good summary review for an old timer like myself (Gosh, speaking of Old Timer, I just turned 65, feeling very much like Socrates now more than ever, lol).

[@GregoryBSadler]

I think that years of teaching service classes -- the first six years of them in a maximum security prison -- helped to develop my teaching style. Glad you find the lectures enjoyable and well-structured

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome, and I'm glad you find it helpful. I need to get back to producing some more lectures on Platonic dialogues down the line, but right now, producing videos in the Existentialism series

[@metrx330]

That was a really good lecture. Since reading Bertrand Russell's book, The History of Western Philosophy, I have finally found a field of study I am utterly passionate about. I am seriously considering going back to university to study this subject as a mature student. If only I was introduced to philosophy in high school. Your classes will arm me with a good backround knowledge in my first year. Thank you!

[@MrAngryman69]

One of the originals and one of the best.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, you'd be surprised how little the present generation of American students have read in their K-12, or on their own. But, you're right -- for this group in particular, i.e. new Freshmen, a lot of it is being unsure about what the instructor wants from them, being afraid of being wrong, etc. And, that too stems in part from their K-12 education. I'm glad you like my teaching style -- and at this point, I think there's something close to 100 course videos uploaded in my channel.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Sorry to hear that you don't/didn't -- every student who wants to learn deserves a professor who is genuinely interested in the subject and wants to share it with others

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks! Yes, it's a really early one -- and there's a learning curve with this stuff

[@GregoryBSadler]

That's interesting -- what in the Apology inspired you in particular? I can certainly understand it, but for me it was Kierkegaard and Nietzsche who got me going originally, so I'm always interested in hearing from student what from which texts/what thinkers inspired them

[@BrianJohnson-nt2mo]

Finally I am starting to understand and enjoy philosophy.... THANK YOU!!!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. Interestingly, though I'd actually put in for it at a previous position, I've never had the chance to teach a Humanities course. It could be quite fun -- you get to cover not only philosophy, but also political theory, history, literature, architecture, artwork, music. . . .

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you like them

[@GregoryBSadler]

Good -- glad you found it

[@GregoryBSadler]

Some of our college students may come in already having read some classic works in high school -- but again, huge variance in curriculum and quality in our schools

[@alexwise41]

WOW!! Thank you very much Dr. Sadler, happy holidays and a happy new year!! Cheers!!

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Alex Wise You're welcome! Happy New Year to you and yours!

[@GregoryBSadler]

That's a smart arrangement. I like to have them read through the Crito as well -- great discussions there about what the wise man (who Socrates doesn't claim to be there) would have to know

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks. Yes, it was produced for beginners -- hence the title "Intro to Philosophy"

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'll see what can be done about that. I'm a bit surprised that the lecture comes across without the board, though

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, I did see it - I provide a link to it (you mean the older one, right?) for my students

[@GregoryBSadler]

There's a lot of variation -- we don't have anything like a "standard" college/university set of Core requirements in the USA. In some schools, you cannot avoid some sustained exploration of classic humanistic studies, including philosophers, playwrights, historians, poets, etc. And, in my view -- so long as they're taught well -- that's best for the students. In others, they might be optional, or not even provided -- though that's fairly rare

[@GregoryBSadler]

Wow! Thanks a lot -- very high praise, which I'm glad to read.

[@giannhs556]

Yes, that's true. There's huge variance both in quality and in curriculum. Thank you for the information :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

That's very nice to read. You're welcome!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Likely not. I'm not your professor, nor am I in your class, so I would have no clue as to what you'd be asked about. In these videos, I cover key aspects of the text. I'd watch the video, I suppose.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, that was a standard line for explaining places where Plato seemed to be in agreement with Scripture -- one you see a lot in Patristic writers, but not a view that is all that plausible when you look at it closely. It's quite possible to find similar insights arrived at by different thinkers. Now, later Greeks -- after the Macedonian conquest of the middle east, the successor kingdoms, and the Roman and (later) Persian empires' dominance -- that's a different story

[@Tlajinga]

Thanks for replying Dr. Sadler. I'm mostly trying to convey such "non practical" concepts to my sister for this online Philosophy class she's signed up for. Self aggrandizement on your part notwithstanding (and why shouldn't you promote yourself- your style is like what I'd imagine I'd do if/when I become a teacher of ancient history) I like your videos. They are free and well done. And yes bugger those videos from Yale... stuffed shirt nonsense those are.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Socrates definitely existed. Plato was far from his only student, and a number of them wrote about Socrates as well. Of the surviving texts -- many of those by Socrates' other students (e.g. Antisthenes) we have those of Xenophon, where Socrates is depicted, often a bit differently than how Plato portrays him

[@GregoryBSadler]

That's an interesting idea. I do need to start back up the Chalk and Talk series as well

[@GregoryBSadler]

I think you're right -- unless one sets truth, and wisdom, as values that trump other values (including life, if one has to), one's commitment to philosophy is always a bit suspect.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, there are some plugins out there that turn KZbin vids into mp3s -- I use them to take music posted in KZbin that I can't get elsewhere and turn them into files for itunes for myself. One of those would work. So, let me ask -- if it's just sound, no chalkboard, no gestures, how effective are these lecture/discussion videos? If they are useful, perhaps I ought to turn them into podcasts

[@GregoryBSadler]

It's viewed in the Anglophone world as mainly just literature -- though there is a growing recognition even there that there is a lot of philosophical work being done in Dante. A whole different story in non-anglophone philosophy though.

[@MrAngryman69]

Prof. Sadler, I don't know if you have seen this video but if you look up Plato's Apology on KZbin you will find a depiction down by actors which I think is pretty good.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, we get the story from Diogenes Laertes, who uses the term "bothron", which is something dug into the ground, e.g. a ditch, a pit. Having lived near marshes, and traipsed around in them, falling into one by not paying attention doesn't seem too unlikely

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, that class ended back in Fall -- so the vids are now, you might say, fair game. Actually, as it turned out, far more people ended up watching them than my own small class of 25 students -- which is quite all right by me.

[@MrRodyaRaskolnikov]

I'm a big fan of "Plato's Apology." I always have my students take a look at it before we read the "Allegory of a Cave"

[@GregoryBSadler]

It certainly was. As to the wisdom -- it's a but funny, isn't it, thinking of a prof transmitting wisdom from Socrates, who claimed to have it only in that he didn't have it, no? I do actually think Plato and Socrates possessed wisdom -- and so anything I'm giving you in these videos is really thanks to them

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome -- the patience took a long time to develop, I have to admit

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, this is early in the semester, and these are freshmen right out of high school, so they're not yet "warmed up", so to speak -- but I do have to admit I like it better when there's good discussion

[@GregoryBSadler]

But, Platonic love, right?

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@giannhs556]

Very good job. Just to know, are this type of humanitarian studies optional in all US colleges? I've heard even from biology American students that they have optional classes about Plato, Aristotle, Sophocles, Sappho, Homer etc. By the way, I am a greek senior high school student.

[@Tlajinga]

Hey man, I like your lecture here. Thanks for posting this stuff for the lay public like me. This is very helpful for me.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I wouldn't entirely dismiss the Yale/MIT, etc. courses or people -- to be sure, there's plenty of stuffed shirts in the top tiers, but a lot of good stuff too. One just has to wade through it, and be discriminating. My main beef -- which I really ought to write about in one of my blogs -- with those forums is this: they're billed as making education accessible for everyone, as breaking down the elite/everyone else distinctions, as "empowering" -- and they are . . . but also aren't

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome

[@rock0795]

Thank you for uploading the lecture, it was very informative.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@mjb14722]

Your usual excellent discussion!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I think there is a body of deep and ancient knowledge, which remains for the most part poorly understood from a scientific perspective -- but I don't think it's mysterious, hidden, etc. It's available to anyone who wants to study ancient (and for that, its continuation in medieval, modern, contemporary) wisdom, a good portion of which is available in philosophical texts. What it requires, in order to make good progress into it, is some changes on the part of the reader, the thinker

[@GregoryBSadler]

I suppose it could be considered a gain in relation to the past, existing, consciously suffering self. But, considered from the vantage point of being entirely unconscious, including of any "gain" -- it becomes difficult to see it as any real gain for me

[@brookewade3887]

I truly appreciate this video. Thanks.

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Brooke Wade You're welcome!

[@guitarotaku]

Here is a question that I brought up to my professor and I will ask you Dr. Sadler. Do you think that Socrates really existed or do you think that Plato made him up in his stories and everyone was meant to believe that Socrates was alive?

[@GregoryBSadler]

quite true

[@amalsam2291]

Hello. i just had a question not on this video though but I thought I would get your attention. Have you made a video on Aristotle's work "On Prophesying on Dreams?" If not are you familiar with it? You're videos have honestly helpled me so much throughout my philosophy career. But for some reason this topic of Aristole is rather very confusing. I have to discuss how Aristotle proves Gods existence and my professor gave me this chapter to focus on. I have no idea how it relates to it. Your response would be more than helpful to me! Thank you and thank you for your videos!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Aristotle provides arguments for a prime mover in the Metaphysics, which is where one usually goes for Aristotle on the existence of the divine. I've read On Prophesying by Dreams, yes. If you're looking for tutoring, here's my Google Helpouts listings: helpouts.google.com/115610514266074572098

[@GregoryBSadler]

Probably -- though I'm actually a big fan of Xenophon, and not inclined to write off his own portrayal of Socrates. For me, it's simply a factor of not enough time

[@thePANDASgirl13]

This was very informative and thought provoking thank you for posting!

[@tobimosho]

much love from California, Mt. San Antonio College

[@johnnyt471]

Although Socrates is the main player, all of the dialogues are written by Plato and in some sense expound Plato's own philosophy, using Socrates as a sort of literary device. It's not entirely clear exactly how much of the philosophy in the dialogues is that of Socrates and how much is that of Plato, but there is a general consensus that the early dialogues lean more towards the historical Socrates than the later dialogues.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I'll shoot it eventually -- not sure precisely when though

[@kawtharmarhoon2481]

I would absolutely have a seat in your class

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks!

[@abluesfreak2]

I would gladly participate in a sequential theory series. And yes, Rousseau has been an enigma of sorts for me for the last several months. Perhaps he is replacing Hobbes as my political theory nemesis.

[@GregoryBSadler]

There's hundreds that have good programs -- and if you're self-disciplined and curious you can actually get a decent education at just about any place

[@AletxisRosas]

Thank you so much for uploading! :). I'm really getting into Philosophy and I'm starting to read Plato dialogues. You have great teaching skills, damn I wish I was your student :/, I subscribed to your channel so I guess that's the closest I can get. Funny part is that I'm going for a Psychology major next year not a Philosophy major, that's a little start I guess. Wish you well. :) And thanks again, there is a lot of videos of my interest. Sorry if my english is not that good tho, I was born in Staten Island but raised in Mexico since I was 8, but if everything turns ok Im going back for college... Take care. :)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Alexis Rosas Well, you might consider the Global Center for Advanced Studies -- globalcenterforadvancedstudies.org/ -- they have excellent professors, and keep costs very low I'll be teaching a class for them, Plato's Symposium, starting in two weeks

[@GregoryBSadler]

Nice. I'll take a look at it sometime. I would suspect it's working off of the documents we have had and used for quite a a while -- Plato, Xenophon, etc.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Quite simply, I have very little interest in Analytic philosophy, whether it be the classical or the contemporary stuff. I would guess there's enough other people out there doing vids on that stuff, if you look

[@abluesfreak2]

A brilliant "conversation". Ever do a video on Rousseau?

[@GregoryBSadler]

In one sense. In another, it would be "improving"

[@xomid]

Hi Dr. G B Sadler, Here on KZbin there is 6 parts (of 10 minutes each) documentary explaining the historical cause of why Socrates taken to trial. The documentary is titled from; "Athens & Sparta, Sokratis and ancient Greece part 1/6" to "Athens & Sparta, Sokratis and ancient Greece part 6/6"

[@GregoryBSadler]

Nice!

[@jaimesandoval1988]

Superb class discussion. Thumbs up! I am going to watched your other videos :-)

[@GregoryBSadler]

Depends on what you mean by "Real". What there such a place, and was there a priestess there? Yes

[@lialfredcastor869]

thank you so much, this video is helping me get through introduction to philosophy especially towards socratic wisdom ahha. much love from mt.san Antonio college

[@lialfredcastor869]

one question tho, from the apology what we're Socrates deepest beliefs? one thing that stuck with me after reading the apology was that, in paraphrase, I myself am not wise... I know nothing

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you're finding the video useful

[@louiscastor6130]

What did socrates value the most in the apology couldn't quite get that.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Louis C Did you read the text?

[@louiscastor6130]

yes skimmed a bit, but from what i could understand the most, he who examines his life is more able than someone who doesnt examine his life, that is what stood out to me the most. Aside from that I kind of got that he is the representation of argumentation. He attacked mostly the accusation that he was corrupting youth, but thats all i could grasp from that.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Hahaha! I get that comparison from time to time, though not as frequently as I get Penn Gillette, or The Dude

[@Ilyasibnyaqoob]

Can it be said that when Socrates said that he is not wise, is because that the people who claimed wisdom that he questioned is actually not true wisdom, thus he does not have this false wisdom which makes him like them? I was thinking about this question the whole lecture :D Thankyou Dr. Sadler

[@GregoryBSadler]

that's certainly one possible way of making sense of it

[@mikestivic8831]

That is what I meant, thank you. Also- do you remember your first introductory course? Was it difficult and did you understand your professor?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Not yet -- he used to be a real favorite of mine, long, long ago. I ought to shoot something on him, but I think it might be a while before I do. Perhaps in a political theory sequence

[@OfftoShambala]

sounds like a great topic, i'd be interested in learning what you have to say about that ...

[@MrAngryman69]

No worries! I think I favorited it. I'm talking about the one that looks old, Cecil B. Demile style of cinematography.

[@QaaciyeMedia]

Awesome lecture! wished I had this professor for humanity course. defiantly would have better discussions than some of the professors i had for philosophy and ethics.

[@rrbryan100]

This is very helpful thank you

[@NesQuik79]

Socrates' refutation of the charge(s) against him (Apology), how he discovered the meaning of the oracle's declaration, and his famous statement that "the unexamined life is not worth living." Finally you should be prepared to describe Socrates' answer to Crito's claim that we should care what the majority thinks, and Crito's appeal to Socrates that he should escape from prison.

[@yajhernandez761]

Only minutes in and someone already asks "can i use the bathroom"...

[@MrAngryman69]

Oh wait, I thought you told me you would provide me a link. Sorry about that. Yeah i found it myself while looking for material on Socrates since Ancient Greek philosophy is divided with his life at the dividing point.

[@Shnimberz]

Any way to download these videos? Be great to listen to in my car.

[@ariadne.labyrinth1697]

Yes, it's probably better for students who study even sciences to be taught some humanistic studies, provided of course that they are taught well... We have Protagoras, the Republic, Nicomachean Ethics and Politics this year, for the panhellenic exams, but not all students, only those who will go for humanistic studies...

[@saegmam]

thank you ....

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@xstaycold]

In a book I have they called what Thales fell in a "mire". I'm not too sure what that is or how they meant it, but it seems to be a swamp sort of thing. Which seems a little ridiculous that he could have fallen into a swamp hahah

[@GregoryBSadler]

@nothereawake Hahahaha! Glad I could give that impression -- but I have to admit that I find myself far from being wise. Fortunately, I've got some good models to follow

[@Kwintessential2]

Interesting: Hatred is long-lasting. Hatred is stronger than anger.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, that's what most moral theorists who discuss the two tend to think

[@0lAllan]

Dante placed "virtuous pagan's" in a part of Limbo called "The Light of Human Reasoning". Of course The Divine Comedy is widely viewed as a literary classic rather than a work of philosophy, though it works off of Catholic theology.

[@ebannaw]

I don't think it was arrogant at all for him to defend himself, he laid a divine smack down on his accusers. Socrates and Plato were all about getting people to try and look at a higher reality of virtue, examine oneself, finding a better way of doing things than the ways of this world and to at least simply think about truths, divine truths. He is very upfront and humble about his limitations and lack of knowledge (he knows that he knows nothing paradox), and his desire for people to contemplate the divine during his apology: He states: "I differ from the majority of men, and if I were to claim that I am wiser than anyone in anything, it would be in this, that, as I have no adequate knowledge of things in the underworld, so I do not think I have. I do know, however, that it is wicked and shameful to do wrong, to disobey one's superior, be he God or man. I shall never fear or avoid things of which I do not know, whether they may not be good rather than things that I know to be bad. Even if you acquitted me now and did not believe Anytus, who said to you that either I should not have been brought here in the first place, or that I now am here, you cannot avoid executing me, for if I should be acquitted, your sons would practice the teachings of Socrates and all be thoroughly corrupted; if you said to me in this regard: 'Socrates, we do not believe Anytus now; we acquit you, but only on condition that you spend no more time on this investigation and do not practice philosophy, and if you are caught doing so you will die;' if, as I say, you were to acquit me on those terms, I would say to you: 'Men of Athens, I am grateful and I am your friend, but I will obey the God rather than you, and as long as I draw breath and am able, I shall not cease to practice philosophy, to exhort you and in my usual way to point out to any one of you whom I happen to meet: 'Good Sir, you are an Athenian, a citizen of the greatest city with the greatest reputation for both wisdom and power, are you not ashamed of your eagerness to possess as much wealth, reputation, and honors as possible, while you do not care for nor give thought to wisdom or truth, or the best possible state of your soul?' " Imagine a man like this coming around, rebuking and exhorting moderns, doing similar things, discussing things of a divine nature. He would be socially ostracized in most social circles at best, and thought crazy, impractical, unrealistic--especially in today's modern mindset that is demonstrating an increasing emphasis on the strict merits of empiricism. Many more people even maintain the opinion that philosophy is unnecessary now: "we have science and technology, that is all we need" proceeds this line of thought. Materialists. In those days, they just killed you if your voice carried too much weight for the established paradigm. Shit, in many places they still do. But that's the self-destructing nature of evil, for in killing him, have they not given his voice more power to ripple throughout subsequent ages? Aye, indeed they did. "Too much near the truth they say, save it till another day" to quote Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath. Socrates was just too damn close to the truth for the Athenians. They were afraid of it, and what it meant for them, at least the ones who voted against him. This world is in opposition to the truth. It has been for quite some time, and will continue to be in the foreseeable future. Just take a look around. How fucking sad.

[@GregoryBSadler]

ebannaw "In those days, they just killed you if your voice carried too much weight for the established paradigm." Well. . . not really, just on occasion. If it was the case that any real dissent or criticism would get one killed, Aristophanes would have bought it long before he could lampoon Socrates. One might multiply examples. One was indeed expected to defend oneself in the law court -- that's what "apologia" originally means. That said, Socrates himself expressed the possibility that he could be taken to be arrogant in his own defense -- that's a key part of his rhetorical framing early on in his apology

[@ebannaw]

Gregory B. Sadler But as you point out in this lecture, (around 31:50) comedy was a more accepted form of criticism, was it not? What Socrates was doing was unusual for his contemporaries and violated the social norms more than Aristophanes. Aristophanes even laid into Socrates as you know better than I. Socrates recognizes that he can be perceived as arrogant, but do we actually think that is so here? I do not think that he is at all arrogant for what he does. Perhaps some do, but I would argue otherwise. It is a sign of humility to admit one's potential for arrogance to me, similar to the way a man may be thought wiser who concedes he is not wise.