Epictetus, Discourses | Criticisms of Epicureanism | Philosophy Core Concepts

[@vlolalaniel]

Thank you for the video. Examples like walking in a dark alley are a great way to help the mind come up with a visual representation of concepts.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're quite welcome!

[@MrBahuba]

This was cool. Discovered Stoicism about a year ago and after reading 4 introductory books and the meditations I have decided to read into Epictetus a little more and follow Seneca‘s advice to focus on one philosopher and study his sayings in a bit more detail. Read the chapters on Epicurus in the Discourses earlier today and was a bit lost. This helped. Cheers, mate.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad it was useful for you

[@mikeq5807]

I think all the philosophers offer golden nuggets of truth. Epicurus makes a great statement when he says that it is better to choose what is not pleasant in the beginning if in the end it is pleasant. Most people, I have observed, choose what is pleasant without foresight, and their experience turns unpleasant in the end. The key is to be pleasant inwardly and consistently, regardless of outward circumstances.

[@martincristian4567]

I don't know if I'm right, but I think the part about not using and destroying the measures and standards received from nature is more a critique of skepticism than Epicurus. From my understanding, it was the skeptics who refused to acknowledge input received from the senses, not the epicureans. Also, the straw philosopher that Epictetus disputes with does state an epicurean principle about gods, but it does so in a manner of a skeptic philosopher, like Carneades speeches on justice during his embassy to Rome.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Epicureans and Stoics don't have precisely the same concept of "nature"

[@Anekantavad]

I find the pleasures of the flesh to be one of the things that make life worth living, and Epicureanism has lots to say about how to manage one's pleasures. This is a very useful skill for me. Having said that, when pleasure becomes an end in itself, I find myself subconsciously repeating lines from Ecclesiastes to myself. In terms of my own experience, I find myself influenced by the Epicureans in the same way as Nietzsche has influenced me: useful life skills and brilliant analysis, but not quite exhaustive enough. I admit, however, that this may simply be a function of how limited my grasp of both might very well be. :-)

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Anekantavad I'd say my appreciation of the Epicurean tradition runs along similar lines

[@Anekantavad]

+Gregory B. Sadler I think I will follow up with your other vids on Epicureanism, because I am wary of the "pleasures of the mind" as well. Not that I oppose them, but they can be tricky. Nothing demonstrates this better than the internet. Suddenly, the "wisdom of the ages" is available to us on demand, but it can lead to an atomistic ennui if we *expect* our mental pleasures to be "provided" to us by the net. Pleasure (like pain) strikes me as something we are *subjected* to, not something we generate or are involved in. Hupolepsis seems to be the key here (at least to me). In the case of pleasure, something pleasant is being, as it were, "fed" to me from elsewhere. Joy, however, seems to require an active use of my faculties during the experience of joy. A chocolate bar is obviously a simple pleasure, and a Ridley Scott movie a bit more complex. Reading a work of mind-blowing philosophy is an even subtler "pleasure", but it still is something "fed" to me. As far as I can tell, the "goods" of life that go beyond mere pleasure seem to involve some sort of balance between stuff "fed" to me externally and the internally-generated stuff that requires a more "Stoic" conception of what I am and what my relationship to the Good actually is. Your videos always get me thinking, and I particularly appreciate how you maintain - even if not overtly - the underlying insistence that reading and studying is good, but not an end in itself. Thanks again. :-)

[@omersaritac]

As far as I know, even though withdrawal from any social obligation is desirable in Epicureanism because it may bring pain, friendship is considered very pleasurable. Therefore, emphasis on friendship in Epicureanism is worth stressing. Correct me if I am wrong.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Epicureanism places a value on friendship, yes. They were routinely criticized for viewing friendship as a matter of usefulness by other schools.

[@erink8434]

Dr. Sadler, I find Epictetus's objection of epicureans not stepping up to take political office quite weak because epicureans could easily respond with running for political offices offers greater pleasure than suffering. 1. the respect gains from the community 2. the sense of duty, involving in something greater than oneself that most certainly brings pleasure. Am I misunderstanding something? if so, plz point it out. Great video btw, Im taking a gap year to serve in the army but luckily I found your lectures so I can keep studying philosophy with good guidance.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Cool. Read a bit more about what the Epicurean position actually was. Easy enough for you to do when you find yourself making objections

[@sethhendrick2]

It seems like a logical conclusion of Epicureanism is to not, not engage in the political process, just to do the minimum. For peace of mind, if not for some funky virtue. Are virtues only virtuous by virtue of their results?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Epicureans did disengage from politics. They also thought the virtues were important.

[@ZiemniakZKosmosu]

I was wondering, why Epictetus is so much current philosopher and I found some answer. First, men like Peter Gay and J. C. Rao are right, I definitely believe them, that we are back in ancient, pagan world, so we deal again with ancient, pagan problems again. Second, if someone don't believe in this ''Back to the Past'' view, we definitely have epicureans and sceptics around as, so they critics are back in the job. Recently I am reading ''City of God'' and I am in book II. It's one of best read in my life, I was fool to not read it earlier and I am still fool, every time when I don't want read it, because something less challenging, something more shining keep my eye. I wonder if it's a chance for Core Concepts video basing on it? Just asking.

[@GregoryBSadler]

+ZiemniakZKosmosu City of God? Yes, eventually - along with more other Augustine works. I've got to get through my present projects, though, before I start new ones

[@ZiemniakZKosmosu]

+Gregory B. Sadler Good thing, end old befor you start new:).

[@bi0lizard1]

I like the stoic philosophy as a way of life much better than Epicureanism. For me it helps. However, the Epicureans lack of emphasis on 'God' or gods has more of a foundation in empirical reality than the antiquated notions of the divine that the Stoics placed far too much emphasis on! Minus the 'God' and 'divine' tripe, Stoicism is a fantastic way to live. I generally just make my own substitution .... When the Stoics refer to 'God' or the 'divine' I simply reframe this as a reference to 'the universe' or 'nature' or 'reason' or 'mind'. No supernatural superstitious nonsense baggage required.

[@simpatiko86]

Epicurean is the best when it comes to pleasure. Why not just enjoy life?

[@topo161]

@@simpatiko86 In life there are trials and tribulations you'll inevitably go through. You could be bullied, face rejection from jobs or potential partners, develop clinical depression for unknown reasons etc. Stoicism provides and teaches you ways to power through in spite of that, Epicureanism is focused on avoiding these inevitable facts of life as much as possible which I don't think is healthy. It can easily be used to excuse complacency.

[@simpatiko86]

@@topo161 You are right. Stoicism is the best when it comes to dealing with tribulations. When it comes to enjoying life, I think Epicureanism is better. It teaches us to enjoy a non luxurious life. Also, I think the very reason anyone do something is because of pleasure. Be it by waking in the morning, getting a job, going to school, filing taxes, or whatever. We do it out of pleasure or avoidance of displeasure. Is it not? Life is not all about overcoming tribulations.

[@vlolalaniel]

I agree. As far as the supernatural, it exists, we are made of it. The difference is that it has nothing to do with religion. ;-)