Friedrich Nietzsche | Genealogy of Morals (part 3) | Existentialist Philosophy & Literature

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We continue our study of Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals, focusing now on the third essay: "What is the Meaning of Ascetic Ideals"
This section's title asks a question to which Nietzsche will provide several answers in the course of carrying his Genealogy down to the present day. We start off with some material later in the essay to frame the topics earlier on in the third essay, and then shift to discussing various types of person and the asceticism corresponding to those types: artist, philosopher, priest.
How do ascetic ideals develop and then take hold within societies and cultures, eventually displacing or suppressing the original morality of the noble, warrior type? Ideals of purity, opposed to contamination or to uncleanness are part of the picture, as are the development - or reinterpretation and elaboration - of religious systems.
Key ideals of philosophy can be understood as expressions of an originally priestly, ascetic ideal - impersonality, universality, objectivity, and detachment.
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#Nietzsche #Existentialism #Genealogy

[@dennisblijleven9697]

I think Friederich Nietzsche, would have been very proud and maybe also a bit happier to see others sharing his ideas and thought which during his time was completely ignored. Isn't it sad? That during his lifetime, he barely sold anything of his work and he just kept going and kept going, just take for example: Beyond good and evil, it sold barely a 100 copies and he had to pay for the printing costs himself! But he just kept writing and writing ... That's why he probably he would be proud of someone like you and the other teachers, and at least I also believe happier. Yet like every prophet it seems they have to pay a cost. Thanks for the amazing video though , thanks!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes. Back in undergrad and grad school, I was very interested in Indo-European linguistics, which of course, entailed some interest in material culture, origins, myth, history, etc. I think I've mentioned Dumezil's tripartition theory -- which attempts to figure everything into the triad warrior-priest-commoner, etc. in some of these other comments

[@chaarivahh8448]

"He Hates Hegel!" @36:23 I laughed soo much when you said that

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you liked it. So, Nietzsche, Christ, and figures of innocence and "idiocy": Clearly, in Genealogy, Christ is ressentiment in its highest form. And, I would say that he's consistent in that stance in Anti-Christ, which refers back to the Genealogy. You're right in that Nietzsche is willing to distinguish between Christianity and Christ, but that's really a commonplace by his time.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad to read that. I'll be doing some additional videos on Nietzsche as well

[@Frozen4Flame]

Thank you so much for posting these 1-hour lectures, they really helped me understand my favorite philosopher a lot more clearly!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, (High) Medieval Europe would traditionally have four effective classes: clergy, nobles, commoners, and then the rising merchant/manufacturer class (bourgeoisie). Nietzsche effectively describes the classes which Georges Dumezil later read into basically all Indo-European social existence -- with two twists: 1) it can apply pretty much everywhere -- the priest/ascetic can arise in any society complicating the interplay between warrior and commoner 2) he does see it as a clue to the present

[@GregoryBSadler]

Haven't done the Core Concept video on ressentiment yet. Here's an example -- others, I think you can easily find by (re)reading the Genealogy. Nietzsche discusses the institutional Church both as historically involved in a developing culture of ressentiment, AND also grudgingly praises the use by some of the power the institution affords

[@stevehenton3213]

Many thanks for posting, Dr Sadler gives a clear and well informed overview of Nietzche's ideas.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome

[@missmaynard2310]

I Really Am Enjoying These Videos, Nietzsche May Have Been Insane, But He Certainly Had Some Astounding Perspectives

[@Greg400]

Thanks Dr. Sadler, I found the schema you made very useful.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad it was useful for you

[@MrAngryman69]

Well I'll keep an eye on my recommendations for existentialism and other of your Nietzsche video in the future.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well played

[@almodovar251]

I enjoy this lecture. Thanks! I love Nietzsche! A lot to discuss about his works!

[@GregoryBSadler]

There certainly is

[@drjasonjcampbell]

26:40 LOL ... love the discourse on Wagner and Luther. Super good lecture. watch half tonight half tomorrow night. got to about midpoint love the analysis of the ascetic ideal and the artist. you're account is spot on in critique of the older Wagner. I think you may like the best critique of Nietzsche's critique however, viz., the story of "bartleby the scrivener" as the ascetic ideal Bartleby becomes Art manifest. Cant think of many counterexamples to Nietzsche's critique but Bartleby is one.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks! Yes, I think Nietzsche may be off on the type of the artist by being a bit too sweeping here. You're right about Bartelby, but I would think even some of the decadents/immoralists might fit the "ascetic" bill in some sense. I think he is correct, though, to point out that the artist -- at least up to the late-modern period -- didn't generally possess enough autonomy and status to carve out the new spaces in the soul like the philosopher or priest.

[@MrAngryman69]

I know of feudalism but it seems like he's simplifying it down to three instead of four classes so that it can apply to any society, like you said. Maybe I should watch more of your videos on Nietzsche since I'm not much adept into his philosophical thoughts other than the umbermensch, slave and master morality, and his quote "God is dead".

[@ronmazzella8025]

I am currently reading "On the Genealogy of Morals” translated by Carol Diethe. Based on what I am hearing, the translation that you are using is more palatable to my ear. Which version are you reading from? You are doing a great service to Nietzsche and those of use you are attempting to study and interpret him. Thank you,

[@eduardosimurgisrael4663]

Thank you! Wonderful!

[@GregoryBSadler]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@GregoryBSadler]

new video in the Existentialism series

[@sogolvaziri2035]

thank you for the clarifying explanation for an autodidact trying to make sense of a complicated essay

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome!

[@TheRealPrecaseptica]

Could you give me a few examples to work with? And did you ever do the introductory video about ressentiment?

[@vladkovalchuk8299]

Under the philosopher column, one could also place notion of "canonicality". I speak from mathematical perspective on this one, but it seems to apply. The idea of things being canonical or natural, the best and only way they could ever be. I suppose it could be placed under the category of detachment or objectivity. Thank you posting these videos, greatly appreciated!

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're very welcome! Yes, I suppose that idea would fit in there as well

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, he's starting with pre-feudalism. Not so much so that it can apply to any society, but because he thinks that's what occurred historically. As for watching the other videos on N. -- I haven't got too many up yet, but I do have a number coming in he next few months, including some from the classes I'm teaching this semester.

[@ThePorkupine73]

Gregory, do you know about the "cattle cycle" in Indo-European myth? It's kind of awesome, and it could probably be used to illustrate what the priest does for the warrior.

[@TheRealPrecaseptica]

Very nice clips about Nietzsche! And from your lectures, and reading the book I thought I had a pretty good view of how Nietzsche would characterize Dostojevskijs Prince Myshkin - but then I read Antikrist, and there he seems to take a very different approach to the Jesus-looking figure, than he does to the rest of Christianity. Would you say that he endorses the "idiocy" in some way?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, it's not simple, so you're going to be confused if you try to work with these very broad categories. There are multiple modes of ressentiment, for one thing. For another, Nietzsche takes a number of different positions on "institutional religion", even just in the Genealogy

[@oiausdlkasuldhflaksjdhoiausydo]

It's interesting that definition of the artist. It reminds me of a text from Balzac, he gave kind of the same definition!

[@GregoryBSadler]

+Daniel Robert Prieto Interesting -- what was it?

[@oiausdlkasuldhflaksjdhoiausydo]

+Gregory B. Sadler "A treatise on elegant living". A short essay as a defence of snobbery and "looking great" as an existential principle, very Balzac. He makes a great definition of class in economic and attitude terms.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I'll have to take a look at it

[@p.vaughan3963]

3 out of 4. Inspiring. Immense help. Just 4 to go. Thanks.

[@GregoryBSadler]

You're welcome! I'll be doing some core concept videos on Nietzsche later this summer If you like this sort of stuff, and would like to support, here's my Patreon page - www.patreon.com/sadler - even just a small monthly pledge adds up when others are joining in the crowdfunding

[@p.vaughan3963]

yeah I'm working my way though a lot of your works. so fair enough. Number 4 tomorrow.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Cool!

[@anorderedhole2197]

My professor in college covered this book but stopped at the third. He his rational was that it was incoherent and had to do with Wagner. I look forward to this video.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Hahaha! That should be a cover blurb: "Good in the first part, but then it becomes incoherent. And it discusses Wagner, and we all know how that goes"

[@anorderedhole2197]

*A student slowly raising his hand at the mention of incoherency.... then slowly withdrawing it at the mention of Wagner*

[@firehand1011]

I love the ending to this video. Can the philosopher be something more than just a jealous outcast: I think in section 10 when he talks about how contemplation first appeared on earth 'in disguise, in ambigous form, with an evil heart and often an anxious head" I think the birth of contemplation is impotence: inability of a male to acquire the female mate, and then having to dwell on that fact... there is the origin of this philosophical drive. I think Nietzsche didn't really draw attention directly to this fact, maybe because he was embarrassed? He was a complete failure with women, and became an outcast eventually as well and didn't have many friends around.

[@MrAngryman69]

Just my interpretation of how the first part of the lecture kind of still applies today.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Thanks for the recommend. You're right. I'm not particularly interested in Nietzsche's naturalism, and, I have to admit it, not much in Leiter's interpretation either. There's many more interesting features and interpretations of Nietzsche out there, in my view. I recommend shooting a video specifically about that view of Nietzsche, if you'd really like to make sure it's represented.

[@GregoryBSadler]

I suppose it could be. But, if you want to start suggesting alternative explanations based on metaphor, why would it have to be exclusive, i.e. only this, not this? Typically, in a good bit of scholarship on Nietzsche, I've seen this passage read as referring to blonde, barbaric Germanic/Aryan, etc. peoples -- a favorite concept of thinkers to play with at that time

[@MrAngryman69]

The first part with the priests, warriors, and the herd seems to take the basic social structure of medieval europe and use them to interpret how most societies work, i.e. our society today with herd being average citizens which takes it morality and beliefs form the priests or some sort of media stating what they should believe, fear, hate, and live to certain standards and the warriors which is our government which imposes its morality and force on the herd.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, not THIS philosopher. But I get a smirk or grin with lots of other thinkers too

[@ThePorkupine73]

Hey, doesn't the "blond beast" refer to the lion? (Not a blond-haired barbarian.) Using it metaphorically for someone with those conquering values.

[@zookatone]

Did Nietzsche have an opinion on Sparta (Or: the ascetic warrior)? Cuz like you said, it's more a characteristic of Priests, Artists, Philosophers, so Spartans are quite exceptional.

[@GregoryBSadler]

He doesn't actually have that much to say about Sparta as such, since they didn't develop anything like the components of Greek civilization -- drama, rhetoric, philosophy, etc. as the Athenians ad the later, broader Alexandrian culture did. If you read through Nietzsche's texts, and you know enough about historical Sparta, you could make some connections. For instance, the Apollonian "culture as an armed camp" notion in the Birth of Tragedy could be applied.

[@SABIULNAIMIRA]

It's amazing how nietzche ideas can be implemented to study ancient India. The advent of Aryans is what the nobility warrior class exercise of will power. Then we saw the rise of priestly Brahman class. And lastly the slave revolt of Jainism and Buddhism whose ideas completely disregard worldly pleasure.

[@GregoryBSadler]

Yes, that vastly oversimplified story does kinda fit. I wouldn't rely upon that narrative to make sense out of actual Indian history

[@tjk355]

So the will to power can drive a man to come up with novel, counter intuitive ideals when brute force is not an option?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Sure. Depending on how strong that will is, of course

[@esunsalmista]

The day we found out prof Sadler is only a “so-called philosopher”. 😆 Jk. Thanks prof. for clarifying the ascetic ideal for the philosopher. The “detachment” was easy enough to pick up from the essay but Nietzsche seems to have enjoyed spreading his ideas randomly across the sections for this one because the concepts of objectivity, impersonality, and universality, were harder to pick up just from this reading. It’s definitely the most difficult of the three essays.

[@GregoryBSadler]

It is indeed - and I think a lot of people focus just on the first or the first and second

[@theonlychadman]

Is there no philosopher who DOESN'T get a little smirk or small grin on their face when they get to talk about Nietzsche?

[@nathanholbrook483]

He seems to be talking about the yogis of the Himalayas or the monks when he says priests.

[@GregoryBSadler]

He's talking about religious figures early on in civilization across the board

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, I watched it -- not sure if we actually watched the same video. Good dramatic representations of Nietzsche and Chesterton (the latter of whom, btw, was about as far from a fundamentalist as one can get). Terrible, sloppy discussion of Nietzsche by the segment's host -- just eye-rollingly awful errors in the history of ideas on his part

[@bindon8581]

Artists are doers or are relevant? I would say that mantle is with scientists. Scientists set out the agenda. So in that sense even scientists aren't doers. Einstein opened the Pandora Box of the atom. He didn't instruct what to do with the information. Information can be a multi-edged sword. Wagner on this scenario is the artist as an intoxication, a release valve. Plato wasn't enamoured of artists. One can see how Nietzsche is viewed as an hedonist, even if he isn't one.

[@TheRealPrecaseptica]

Really? I gathered that ressentiment was the main problem keeping the sick from evolving, but that Christ was different in the way that he embodied actual Christianity, as opposed to St. Paul's version which made the church. To me it seemed that institutionalized religion was the problem for Nietzsche. But he does go out of his way to ignore the "son of God" part of Jesus, in order to compliment him. This has me a bit confused.

[@shaunkerr8721]

Nietzsche believed there was one true Christian and that was Jesus. Christianity died w him on the cross. He believes this bc he was an atheist who believed there was no teleology and thus no god(s) in the universe. There's no meaning to the universe, either.

[@abcrane]

to listen or read Nietzsche vs to watch an (albeit excellent) lecture on it, you do not get the full force of the content. FN expressed from a simultaneous bihemispheric (intuitive-intellectual, mind-spirit space). he wrote with his body, even. the medium itself is the message. left brain analysis somehow obscures the very essence of FN''s wisdom. it annihilates it!

[@orangejuice613]

guess this is why people are still arguing over what he meant huh? Also why Nietzsche said his books teach(force) people to read him slowly. I agree with you but i think its interesting still to see how others have taken his work in.

[@abcrane]

@@orangejuice613 when I make art, there is concept and there is raw emotion, in the process of making art, there is for me no greater experience, but when the art becomes a thing, a thing in a frame, that sensation vanishes, and so I create more art...it is the "diminishing returns" that keeps me returning.

[@orangejuice613]

@@abcrane Interesting, what kind of art do you make?

[@jamesmorgan9258]

It seems like some of these ideas are proto-Anthropological. I'm just beginning to dip my toe into Nietzsche, so it's possible that I'm simply misinterpreting him, but it seems like a lot of the things he says are based on an idea of the state of nature that's... err... wrong. He seems to take a Hobbesian view of "primitive man," but when we look at actual small-scale societies we see that people are quite humane with widespread violence being the exception and not the rule. Clearly, Nietzsche's ideas have value, but how should we recontextualize those ideas when we discover that they rest on a false assumption?

[@GregoryBSadler]

Probably the answer to that will come through reading more Nietzsche, and of course, rereading

[@GregoryBSadler]

Well, Nietzsche has no problem about impeding on most other people's freedoms. What you're talking about is more along the lines of classic liberals like J.S. Mill