GriGri Slipping without pressing on the Cam is not something I've seen before

[@frediabolo]

A good time to remind people to always read the literature that comes with new devices.

[@senorblondie]

New and thin ropes have always done this for as long as I've climbed.

[@pedtrog6443]

Pretty much how these work. You want to be able to feed the rope out to your climber without touching the release lever. The cam will operate as it should if you just put a little tension on the dead end of the rope. While these will generally lock when there is a sharp pull from the climber, the Grigri should not be thought of as a self locking device. One hand on the rope always. I have used these for many years with clients on climbing walls.

[@a6o932]

That's not what was being demonstrated here but OK, lol.

[@morganmcglade7894]

@@a6o932this is exactly what’s being demonstrated - gri gri is not hands free device and will slip

[@2445552]

@@a6o932👍🏼

[@adriansalas3951]

Grigri- break assisting device. Still gotta pay attention

[@00calimon]

But belayers aren’t robots and shit happens. This is why I prefer the Jul2. If my belayer were to have a stroke, it would more likely catch my fall instantly.

[@adriansalas3951]

The jewel slips too. In fact I believe this same guy has a clip where he shows several break assisting devices including slipping including the jewel. People are not robots, but you don't have to be a robot to practice good technique, even in belaying. Gotta remember they are break assisting devices

[@HardIsEasy]

Make sure to watch full video for full context

[@leoingson]

@Fishy Just watch the video.

[@agnome1176]

What "context"? *Stupid and dangerous 2 use the wrong rope!* & not belay correctly Only rank beginners would not decern your lack of judgment & skill. And NO ONE SHOULD belay anyone by NOT HOLDING ONTO THE ROPE!{nice 2 see the closed loop tied in}

[@AndyBizzzle]

Watch the video to see why he is testing it.... The rope thickness is within grigri standards, he's testing how he fell further than he should have while HE was climbing. He used same grigri device and tried many methods until he found the reason why it wasn't camming when it should have. Placement of the belayer in conjuction with the first bolt, and while he was pulling slack for anchors he fell, so the belayers finger was on the side rail in this exact same scenario. It's baffles my mind how quick climbers are to judge. Too many stuck up know it alls.

[@nickkirschner3719]

@@AndyBizzzle the point is the device the device isn’t fool proof so trusting that it will lock up on any rope within the diameter requirements is foolish. Pretty sure it tells you in the little pamphlet on how it works to alway keep your break hand ready to apply pressure to lock up the cam. This is why people should alway learn to belay with an atc or similar device. This is a problem with the belayers technique not a problem with the gear.

[@cassiusnoyb6499]

Nobody's gonna watch a short go to watch a full video. Drives me nuts when people try and bait you in with no context on a short so you'll watch their full boring ass video.

[@OvelNick]

Same idea behind a seat belt cam system right? Requires a certain amount of tension to lock. If slow and lose it won't hold. ??

[@Harpoika]

Sleeping belayer, new rope and progressive acceleration i.e. no yank.

[@JTTTTTGGGGG]

Man, you people in the comments are really missing the whole point of this video 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@scottmx426no7]

What size rope and how new was the rope? Edit to add: even with grigris keep your hand on the brake strand like you do with a tube style device.

[@Monscent]

no shit

[@SunnyMorningPancakes]

In the full video he goes into rope size and it was mid range for what the GriGri can apparently handle

[@johnc3597]

ATCs art light, easy, and force your belayer to remain attentive. If you don't trust someone to use an ATC and you want them to use a gri gri instead? Probably don't climb with them

[@darthtrump4428]

bro the biggest risk of major injury in a craig is someone droping you from their atc imgonna stay with grigri, because i want to have all the safety that i can get. combine safety of grigri and attention span of munter hitch srysly claiming atc is better for craig than grigri is like boasting that not having ABS in your car makes you a better driver

[@wombatherm]

The best belayer may be stung by a wasp, hit by a rock or whatelse. Having a second option for safety is an added benefit! You can't argue against that. And if he gets unattentive, you recognise already while climbing up, when he is late handing out rope

[@jacechristian8725]

For sure, every person I know personally who suffered a major climbing injury was injured while being belayed with a Grigri. In one case the belayer panicked and grabbed the release lever leading to a ground fall. In another the belayer was belaying hands off because they were under the common misconception that the Grigri is automatic. While both of those are a form of user error, the system just isn't intuitive enough to hand to a new belayer and have them figure it out. For this reason I refuse to be belayed with a Grigri Regardless of the belayers experience. I'll teach a belayer how to use an ATC instead because it's simple, easy to understand, and in the event of a fall the belayer just needs to hold on to the brake strand to prevent a groundfall.

[@wombatherm]

@@jacechristian8725 and I've seen unexperienced people with atcs panicly holding onto the the rope which directly went to the climber. Removing a safety feature doesn't make it safer. If you have that kind of distrust into a belayer, have a second person holding the brake line. This is how its done with children, and never failed. No matter the method used.

[@tyler2189]

@@jacechristian8725 idk. It seems kinda backwards. I’d trust a new belayer with a Grigri as long as they understand to never let go of the brake end. An ATC can be a lot more tricky to learn in terms of bad habits for example, they might have their hand on the brake end but hands might be above the ATC. With a Grigri, a child’s grip is enough to activate the brake on a Grigri.

[@ChrisSchaecher]

This is why you put the gri gri in a safe place before eating greasy pizza or ribs.

[@AlexanderLabial]

Insane that u could do that without reacting 🤯 How hard was it to fight your instinct?

[@jasminepetal3972]

Whats happening here ??

[@timreyes2179]

He's got a stopper knot. It only stopped when the dead end felt the weight of the stopper knot. Actually pretty crazy to watch the speed of engagement once it hits the bottom of the knot

[@jason21jburg]

Thin ropes always do this with them, I hate them to be honest

[@wasatchpilots619]

Shout out for assisted belay devices that do not have a spring that keeps them open/unlocked. Ergonomic tubers (jul, pilot, smart, ect) trango vergo. Who knows any others?

[@PeregrineBF]

Alpine-Up (for half/twin/singles) or Click-up (singles only).

[@russhellmy]

I don't use a Grigri, but I know they are Very sensitive to rope Diameter. Also shouldn't the tail of the rope be out the front & down NOT up & back & over the side & then down?

[@joe_jf_kelly]

Yeah, I remember learning this in rope access training, in the case of a slip knot or a bowline, when rope is under tension the tail should always follow with gravity

[@xzaclee4067]

I think he has the rope routed correctly. The rolled edge on the side of the Grigri is for the rope to roll over.

[@russhellmy]

@@xzaclee4067 AFAIK that rolled edge is ONLY used when controlled lowering the climber "to reduce friction on the break cam" which is not what you want in breaking a fall.

[@xzaclee4067]

@@russhellmy watch the tech tips for grigri on petzl. They use the rolled edge to feed slack quickly to the climber.

[@Sylvaantye]

You are right. This position is used for feeding rope to the climber. The position itself is correct, but the belayer fails in breaking the rope (hand stays open) and trying to get the hand under the device in the breaking position. In my opinion this is mainly bad belaying, not a problem with the device.

[@derandiheissst]

no wonder read the instruction manual, it says you must always hold the rope in your hand, so hold tight and you'll see that the rope won't slip

[@gradexunderx7452]

The guy in the video is actually very diligent using any type of belaying device as one can see looking at his other videos. However, GriGri is broadly perceived as and used as if it were an auto-locking device and this video is supposed to show that that isn’t actually the case

[@brucelownhole]

Rope looks thin for specs?

[@nonbinaryfaucet284]

Even with a 9.8 this will happen. Experiments in longer lenght can be found on youtube.

[@pascaljutras178]

this guy is serious, he took rope inside specs for his testing.

[@MrRaul4400]

That's why you always grip the break lead of the rope

[@jupons4529]

New, thin rope and a light climber can helps to "hack" the grigri 😅 However as said here it couldn't happen if safety used...

[@timreyes2179]

Yeah, petzl's instructions say not to keep your hand in this position. The DAV said it was fine, though, they call it gaswerk technique. If you watch the DAV training video on the technique though, they don't teach you to catch a fall using this position, they use the petzl position, pretty sus. Using the Petzl technique, even if you feed rope on the same path as this video, which is obviously great for not engaging the cam, your brake hand is engaged on and pushing the rope, grigri is faster than you. Plus follow that line and it's super easy to get into to the fast feed position if you need it, which you shouldnt need for narrow ropes anyway.

[@Maxiclimbing1977]

It seems to be the grigri 1, and the ropes today use to be less than 10mm of diameters. The grigri 1 is made to work with 10-11 mm ropes so maybe the problem is that this guy should have readed the instructions of this belayer. I say this without known if the diameter of the rope is less than 10 mm but I have never known of this problem if the rope was not the correct diameter.

[@rickard7561]

The problem was not holding the rope. Its not an automatic belay device. Its only assisted. It works by a cam. If its not being cammed the rope just slides through. Always hold the brake side of the rope.

[@timreyes2179]

It's obviously not the grigri 1. It's a 2, and this is a clip out of a full video where he goes over the range of ropes it works on and his is within spec.

[@brevinjohnson2016]

Thanks for scaring everyone bro

[@PhinkTink]

Thanks for the video and the explanation of the fail. I learned a lot from your channel, thanks therefore too. Keep hanging on.

[@PawnshopmikeATL]

Idk anything about this world , but my bro (cell tower tech) purposely uses one with where the aluminum?groves? Are worn down to where he can do this while repelling down the tower

[@memeyou241]

I hope English is your second language. In which case, well said.

[@Queenfisher444]

@@memeyou241 underrated comment

[@PawnshopmikeATL]

@@memeyou241 I have doctorate in south Georgia Redneck

[@memeyou241]

@@PawnshopmikeATL I have a doctorate in South Georgia, redneck. I respect your ability to understand multiple Languages.

[@arnoldcroteau7457]

Yes it’s a self locking belay device but at the same time you never take your belay hand off the road . This would not happen and would engage the mechanism likes intended to work

[@yeahLOUIS]

The weight of the climber should be a factor...

[@jenyates3033]

And doesn't happen if you follow the manufacturer's instructions and use a belay technique that should apply to all devices... . Hold onto the brake strand! 🤦‍♀️

[@CorkBouldering]

dont use it if you dont know how.

[@joeyrivenbark5056]

Steve mould has a few videos where he looks at a physics phenomenon that seems to be involved here. Called the "Mould Effect"

[@HardIsEasy]

Uuuu nice, thanks!

[@Lactionnobleetidéale]

Absolutely not. It's a completely different thing.

[@joeyrivenbark5056]

@@Lactionnobleetidéale care to elaborate?

[@Lactionnobleetidéale]

@@joeyrivenbark5056it is difficult for me because my english is pretty bad, but i try: The mould effect explains the shape of the rope entering the grigri, but do not explains the phenomenon "per se" which is due to the lack of sufficient friction between the rope and the grigri. The mould effect is caused by the speed of the rope, but the speed of the rope is caused by a lack of friction, a lack of sensitivity when the rope is slippery and/or too thin. So: yes i agree, there is the mould effect. But it is a consequence of the lack of friction, not the opposite

[@robertjung8929]

it's clearly visible the gri-gri grabs once the rope speeds up. if the climber is sliding on a slab gri-gri won't catch on it's own and it's not supposed to do so either.. it's an assisted braking device. if the climber is lightweight and there is rope drag, then it's the same won't grab on it's own because the fall is not fast enough. there must be a certain speed so the friction of the rope will activate the cam. use it as it's supposed to be used and stop milking the gri-gri cow for views.

[@rickard7561]

No there is a second belayer. The grigri doesnt have to catch do to the speed of the rope. Its the braking hand making the grigri cam into locked mode.

[@robertjung8929]

@@rickard7561 where do you see a second belayer in the video ? he has a grigri which catches once the rope speeds up. if the rope doesn't speed up (e.g. climber slides on a slab) gri-gri will never catch on it's own, it's a normal behavior of a gri-gri (and that's why you have to have your braking hand always on the rope and use the gri-gri as it's supposed to be used). Ben is milking the gri-gri for views while using it incorrectly (gri-giri not catching.. gri-gri slips...etc...) but in every video gri-gri was doing exactly what it was supposed to do in that situation.

[@rickard7561]

@Robert Jung Is see now that there is no second belayer. Although the end of the rope is in a knot to act like a belayer in series. The lockup of the grigri has nothing to do with the speed of the rope. But all to do with the caming action created by holding the rope. Thus overcoming the spring of the cam inside, crushing the rope, making it stop. My explanation might not be perfect because English is not my first language.

[@robertjung8929]

@@rickard7561 the cam started to move much earlier and there was still slack in the rope when the cam locked. i'm using the gri-gri for a long time and i know what it does and what it doesn't. accept the fact that the speeding up rope creates enough friction to engage the cam on it's own (but you must not rely on this fact and you must have your brake hand always ready on the rope).

[@pascaljutras178]

This gri-gri got the catch at the moment the rope got the little extra tension required to get the mechanism do his job, that tension was in my opinion at the moment the safety knot started to get lifted, this probably used to give just enough tension to activate the locking mechanism.

[@rom668]

Rope comes out. So do gloves.

[@OneLifeExperience-]

diameter of the rope

[@AscendMountains]

It’s a 9.0mm rope, that’s just within optimal for a grigri - they’re supposed to support down to 8.5mm. Watch the full video there’s a little more to it than just a thin rope!

[@judahwilliamson8967]

Since some are confused here is why he is not using the gri-gri properly They were testing if the auto-locking mechanism would engage without the brake hand. That's why the rope is tied off below where it caught. It just goes to show that a gri-gri might save your life if your belayer sucks but you're definitely gonna take a pretty big whip. If you are curious about how gri-gri's work, google works fantastic.

[@alexkhuri3967]

Maybe use the gri-gri correctly? Probably a good place to start.

[@judahwilliamson8967]

They were testing if the auto-locking mechanism would activate without the brake hand. That's why the rope is tied off below where it caught. Goes to show that a gri-gri might save your life if your belayer sucks but your definitely gonna take a pretty big whip.

[@alexkhuri3967]

@@judahwilliamson8967 it shouldn't surprise anyone that a belay device struggles to function when YOUR BRAKE HAND IS OFF OF THE ROPE.

[@pascaljutras178]

@@alexkhuri3967 This device will probably block the rope 99.99% of time even if you dont hold the braking strand (just fictitious numbers), yes as you said better have your brake hand on the rope cause your partner could be the unlucky 0.01%. Need some particular condition to not do the job but it is possible to recreate these condition.

[@timreyes2179]

​​​@@pascaljutras178yeah, petzl's instructions say not to keep your hand in this position. The DAV said it was fine, though, they call it gaswerk technique. If you watch the DAV training video on the technique though, they don't teach you to catch a fall using this position, they use the petzl position, pretty sus.

[@yeahLOUIS]

Name of your down jacket please😍

[@jasonmiles3263]

Its important to use the break hand as a break hand

[@eyescreamcake]

Try holding it correctly?

[@HardIsEasy]

This was done on purpose to demonstrate that GriGri can slip without pressing on the cam. Basically to expose the risks. I explained more details in the full video.

[@guidotognoloni1522]

Try reading before commenting?

[@TBradley2123]

That’s scary I regularly solo with just a gri gri for protection 😮

[@elwiz81]

zrób test z linką od prania :D Google translator Polish ;)

[@N1CKczemN1CK]

Ja po Polsku nie rozumiem:translator english😁

[@elwiz81]

trudno;)

[@littlemckay]

Honestly, the way it's being held here is why I hate Gri Gris and sticking with my Mad Rock lifeguard. I'm never holding the device in any odd way just to be able to block the cam where this becomes a problem. With mine you don't need to block the cam when giving slack, so your brake hands is always below the device, yet the device catches just as well, and sometimes even better. It's much easier to just keep your hand holding the rope all the time when that's all your hand has to do! And any slippage can be grabbed quickly before rope burn can be a big issue. Oh yeah, AND my device is lighter while using all metal!!! I don't know why Gri Gris are still popular when there's so many more lighter options that also don't use plastic which many complain about with the newer Gri Gris. This product is now drastically behind competition. Ditch these and get better products that give slack without needing to block the cam and be far, far safer. If you're a newbie, definitely learn how to use this terrible device, because there's still far too many using them and you may need to use them one day, then buy something much easier and safer to use.

[@tuckerperkins6931]

Label your hooks for there rating and shock resistance so you can place them in a pattern for maximum protection not a rock climber that uses gear but a engineer at heart rocks are dangerous I had a 25libra stone strike me in the shin and it hurt like a mf going at about 5km/hr lucky it didn't snap my shin be careful climbing in oklahoma Lots of tricky sandstone

[@Alexandrepgagnon]

So there is a minimum rope Dia rating for the Grigri1. And that rope looks suspiciously small!

[@robccto]

He explains in his long video that the rope it's actually of the correct size. A combination of factors caused this because they didn't hold the rope.

[@marksteven5252]

Or you could pay attention while belaying..

[@imbazohan1385]

Tbh u using not properly equipment, fall protection has descender, position lanyard need to use with own weight and right rope.

[@jeffreyplace4512]

Been a thing forever, use an ATC and pay attention.

[@Monscent]

Or pay that same attention, and use a grigri

[@timreyes2179]

But learn the ATC technique on the grigri like Petzl maintains. Petzl's instructions say not to keep your hand in this position. The DAV said it was fine, though, they call it gaswerk technique. If you watch the DAV training video on the technique though, they don't teach you to catch a fall using this position, they use the petzl position, pretty sus.

[@notamouse5630]

Thin rope fails to have enough friction to activate the mechanism.

[@jasonmiles3263]

It's his break hand not the rope

[@notamouse5630]

@@jasonmiles3263 That GriGri is a failsafe device while the climber is ascending when used with a wide enough rope. Its designed to operate without human intervention in the event of a belayer with a medical emergency. Belayer faints, you yell take and fall without taking too much slack, and you live. He tested a slim rope to test that failure mode. Don't use a GriGri with slim rope. You may still then need to self rescue with something that grips the rope after you go off belay if you are alone. Perhaps: Carry at least 2 prusik loops and/or ascenders on tethers. Use them on belt and feet to give enough rope slack to form an alpine butterfly well up the rope from your passed out belayer's tight length. Then do a safe transfer of your weight to the belay line and then the climber line to the butterfly loop. Then descend the main line with a pair of prusiks or rappelling equipment if the rope is loose enough (climb the belay rope before the alpine butterfly).

[@jasonmiles3263]

@@notamouse5630 it's designed to work without human intervention, but if a human intervenes in an improper way the devise no longer works correctly

[@Chungustav]

Stick to old school figure 8. They worked just fine for decades. Simpler the better

[@dariocarafa3788]

Out of all the gris-gris I've had none of them have ever slippededed that bad

[@cassiusnoyb6499]

"Slippededed" nice

[@timreyes2179]

​@@cassiusnoyb6499how do you pronounce it? 🤔 😂

[@scottyhayden8]

“There we go” sounds like your were looking for failure… Notice the belayer is putting a lot of force on the gri-gri and disengaging the caming device 🧐

[@HardIsEasy]

I recommend to watch full video for full explanations of this experiment, indeed it was looking to make this fail, however I was not pressing on GriGris cam to disengage it.

[@judahwilliamson8967]

They were testing if the auto-locking mechanism would activate without the brake hand. That's why the rope is tied off below where it caught. Goes to show that a gri-gri might save your life if your belayer sucks but your definitely gonna take a pretty big whip.

[@pascaljutras178]

@@judahwilliamson8967 No, he would have maybe totally fail without the safety knot. I am not saying that the safety know stopped the rope but it got an impact. This gri-gri got the catch at the moment the rope got the little extra tension required to get the mechanism do his job, that tension was in my opinion at the moment the safety knot started to get lifted, this probably used to give just enough tension to activate the locking mechanism.

[@shred_meister]

It caught though

[@anghelmarius9429]

You are doing it wrong

[@zachheuscher721]

Intentionally using the device wrong to bash safety equipment figures.

[@samvd9527]

It happens all the time nothing unusual 🤷‍♂️

[@ratemynuts]

I wonder if the age of the device could be a factor, could the insides be worn and polished? Have you been able to replicate it on another GriGri? Most of all why is the GriGri still the device of choice. It seems to have lots of flaws 🤯

[@HardIsEasy]

I was actually wondering the same, both GriGris I have are very old and have some wear and tear... will def compare to the newer one once I get a chance!

[@ratemynuts]

Have you used a Revo much, I've only used it once and it seems like the perfect device 🙄

[@Sylvaantye]

Because Grigri is still more or less "auto-locking". If the belayer faints, I would trust my life most with a Grigri. And with climbing outdoors and possible falling rocks, that is actually a risk.

[@00calimon]

@@Sylvaantyewhat about the Jul2? I’ve only used indoor top rope, but that thing is so simple in design/construction, yet catches/arrests the fall seemingly instantly.

[@Sylvaantye]

​@@00calimonI have used the Jul2 only very little, but would say it is even more important with that device to keep your hand on the break rope at all times. I climb with a Grigri.

[@jasonmiles3263]

Hand placement

[@sjh0010]

you know you can throw yourself from a speeding vehicle just by opening the door, same stupidness applies here too

[@Monscent]

Well, it slipped but it DID grip and stop the fall once the speed had gone up - so not a total failure after all.

[@betterMatt2]

No, it gripped when the knot caught it

[@pascaljutras178]

@@betterMatt2 yes and no, in fact it got the grip at the moment the rope got the little extra tension required at the moment it started to lift the knot (this part of the rope was heavier and it was just enough to give the extra friction required in the Grigri). Also mention that the speed of the rope create a flexion over the device and it reduces the friction on top of the device. A free rope will probably have created a total fail, unless his wrapping on ground would have created tension big enough to get the grip. Grigri can fail, also depend a lot about the fit of the rope with that device, keep your hand on braking strand.

[@steveoxley3849]

That doesn't happen when I use it

[@tmnt3998]

Gri gri is as bad as the Revo, prove me wrong

[@joshuamoua9226]

Ouch