Groucho Marx criticizes blackface comedy (1967)

In 1967 legendary comedian Groucho Marx (1890-1977) appeared on conservative pundit William F Buckley’s TV show "Firing Line". Buckley brought up the subject of minstrel shows, a form of entertainment developed in the early 19th century that consisted of comic skits, variety acts, dancing, and music performances that depicted people of African descent. The shows were performed by mostly white people in make-up or blackface for the purpose of playing the role of black people, often portraying them as lazy and dim-witted.
The show can be seen in its entirety here:
• Firing Line with Willi...

[@nerd_in_norway]

The entire episode of this hour long talk between Groucho and Buckley is highly recommended and can be seen in its entirety here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYnPeo14j9WepaM

[@glennpeterson1357]

💯

[@Dante-ki4ol]

Buckley was a racist, end of story.

[@davidmundowyahoo7839]

@@nerd_in_norway thanks, interesting interviews but I do find Buckley almost unbearable

[@gr8dvd]

@@davidmundowyahoo7839 His persona is beyond pretentious and arrogant… makes it a tough listen.

[@patrickhamos2987]

Fynggr (Figure it out)

[@Kris-wp3fm]

"I liked this because it was what I knew, but now we have a different understanding, and it's time to leave it behind," is a concept so many people TODAY seem to have such a hard time grasping.

[@kennybeans6115]

So then which group is or isn’t worthy of being mocked, specifically on the basis of race? Many probably fail to grasp the concept because of such glaring contradictions.

[@jedijones]

Because the ban-happy left is trying to censor everything just to virtue signal to each other how woke they are. Creating a new taboo and then attacking it and the people who do it turns them into social justice warriors. Pretty soon, they'll be back to making us cover up our table legs with cloth because the curves are considered too demeaning to women.

[@Deuteromis]

@@jedijones That's literally hilarious given how much the right wants to and has attacking things they consider woke and even made laws banning it.

[@grawakendream8980]

its a control thing

[@MrBulky992]

So it's ok to mock Morris dancers because they are (predominantly?) white? On that subject, Morris dancers in some localities have blackened their faces for centuries (said to date back to tge Crusades in medieval times) but there are those who want those traditions to end because *they* perceive an unintended slight - what is nowadays called a "micro-aggression". As a result, we all have to tread on eggshells for fear of offence being taken (despite not actually being given).

[@jahl1163]

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read a book." - Groucho Marx

[@rabbitfishtv]

My favourite is when Groucho was leaving a Hollywood party and said to his hosts: “I’ve had a wonderful night… but this wasn’t it.”

[@WrvrUgoThrUR]

@@rabbitfishtv 😂my favorite Groucho quote: “I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.” 😂

[@twain3074]

have to chime in on the great Groucho quotes.. " Time flies like an arrow: fruit-flies like a banana"

[@balintvasvari7573]

​@@WrvrUgoThrURoh that's from him! Love that quote

[@Appophust]

Kind of gross that he would know, but okay.

[@aftonstan5494]

He acknowledges that even though he enjoyed a piece of media, it was still problematic and he could still criticize it? This is something people struggle with today!

[@toucansam3]

Probably because its been taken too far as seems to be the norm today. Instead of accepting something as being offensive in an organic sense through the passage of time, many today look to manufacture outrage in order to give their lives meaning.

[@aftonstan5494]

@@toucansam3 Really? I disagree. Every time someone attempts to criticise something they get shut down for being a "snowflake". It's frustrating that we live in a culture where we can't really criticise anything.

[@toucansam3]

@@aftonstan5494 You're right, and therein lies the biggest problem with social media. It has exposed people to current events that would have no interest in what's going on in the world otherwise. They see a couple headlines on Facebook or a video on Tik Tok and immediately think they're an expert on politics and the world, even though they really have no understanding of the facts and have spent no time conducting any analysis. Social media has given a voice to people who shouldn't be heard, and that goes for people on both the Left and Right.

[@aftonstan5494]

@@toucansam3 Oh I totally hear you there. On the right people genuinely believe that "all the celebrities are transgender", on the left there are people who attack elderly transgender women for using the language they had at the time to describe themselves instead of the modern terminology. On the right there are people who think men should be fired for wearing dresses, on the left there are people who think Israel bombed Belgium when in reality they bombed a Belgian agency that was in Gaza.

[@hughdismuke4703]

It's upbringing vs. tragic truths. Racism is learned. It's not natural and so he's addressing how he personally feels about it which shows how advanced thinking Groucho became later in life. He never came off as a racist to me. He likes it as entertainment but has a view of who's being made fun of. It's all simple really if you been around long enough. It just comes down to who has a conscience and who doesn't and even that can be fixed because we as humans are capable of being a better human being.

[@fablewalls]

Groucho Marx, Frank Sinatra - people you don't realise actually stood up or spoke against against racism in the 60's.

[@Alexander_Stern1]

Sinatra did it even earlier! Listen to “The House I Live In”, a song he recorded in the 1940’s.

[@DoctorXander]

Charlton Heston, Betty White, and Paul Newman too

[@cubey]

Even the most famous blackface performer, Al Jolson, was against racism. It's unfortunate, but it was considered a "legitimate" art form in his days. It was as common as playing a superhero is today.

[@MrWrightNowTV]

@@cubeyif you participate in it then you wasn’t against it!

[@mansionwb]

Sinatra was not a good man, tho. Ask Woody Allen. Sinatra is most probably the biological father of Mia Farrow's son, Ronan, during her relationship with Allen.

[@mattpytlak]

This is basically what Tom Petty said about the Confederate flag. He was raised in Florida where it was everywhere but he came to realize that African Americans see it the same way Jewish people see a swastika.

[@CommanderLongJohn]

Why must the majority cave to the *loud* minority?

[@sammajor2075]

Tom Petty was a good and decent man. He grew up in an abusive environment. He knew all about undeserved pain.

[@Billiamwoods]

​@@CommanderLongJohn you're free to fly swastikas and do blackface, no one's stopping you

[@JoeOvercoat]

@@sammajor2075Dammit. Now i am missing real stock car racing. 😢

[@SiiriCressey]

​@@JoeOvercoatI thought they were talking about a musician.

[@davemathews7890]

As a Jew living in the 20th century, Groucho was very familiar with bigotry. He knew what he was talking about.

[@scottcantdance804]

He died in the 20th century. Never lived in the 21st century. I do agree that he was familiar with bigotry though, as they are some of the most bigoted people on the planet.

[@davemathews7890]

@@scottcantdance804I made the correction. Thanks for using an anti-bigotry comment to spew more religious hatred yourself!

[@herecomesforego1787]

@@davemathews7890 but let the haters hate! by their hate ye shall know them -- everyone is sorted out.. red hats blue hearts etc... we've got to be carefully taught yes, and it's gonna take a lot of love to unteach it

[@electronicsandewastescrapp7384]

@@davemathews7890 49% of all Israelis are anti-Semitic according to some folks, lol. The right in Israel is is bad if not worse than the American right when it comes to bigotry. But groucho? He was a scholar and a gentleman. He, in my opinion, would not stand for genocide of any group.

[@terrapinflyer273]

​@@herecomesforego1787Wow. Such a simple and obvious concept, but beautifully spoken. I like that a lot - "It's going to take a lot of love to unteach it." I just wish it were simple and obvious to everyone...

[@warheadsnation]

Ken Burns' documentary Jazz claimed that minstrel shows had been the primary American form of entertainment for 80 years (~1840-1920). Meaning, the entertainment most Americans saw when they went to a theater as opposed to playing an instrument at home. Unlike vaudeville, these shows had a stock setting, stock characters, stock jokes, stock everything, all dedicated to the certainty that Blacks were stupid, lazy and unwilling to place work over entertainment, relentlessly drummed into the heads of five generations of Americans North and South. This aligned with the national racist narrative to explain Black poverty and powerlessness. The fact that such a mass indoctrination happened at all is more disturbing than the blackface, but the blackface is the shorthand for all that baggage because it is the repetitive coding that signals the audience that this is the accepted wisdom of their society.

[@microcomputermaster]

And Mickey Mouse is fundamentally a de-racialized blackface character (as is Betty Boop, Oswald the Rabbit, and a host of cartoons of the era). Early Mickey was lazy but clever, had a mean streak and got revenge on those who crossed him, mirroring some of the more "positive" stock minstrel characters which were distinguished by cleverness and tenacity. Once you know the tropes, you can see them across 30 years of Disney and Loony Tunes shorts, usually stripped of their original racist context.

[@bonniemarshall3498]

Yes and the movie Birth of a nation. Which was pro Confederacy and white supremacist dogma was also the law of the land. This is why people don't trust the people in power because this is what they thought was entertaining for the entire family and the lynchings and burnings and other deviltry was what consumed the white masses of people in the United States. And you are not going to tell me anything different.

[@kingbolo4579]

@@microcomputermaster I agree with the original poster's thesis that minstrel shows were dedicated to the certainty that Blacks were stupid, lazy and unwilling to place work over entertainment. I disagree with your application of this analysis to Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse is a go-ahead white yankee character, energetic, white-faced, resourceful and brave. Where's the laziness? He plays all the music in Steamboat Willie and sets industriously about the potatoes, he preps the show in The Opry House and does half the acts (as a long-haired pianist, not a negro trope), as the Karnival Kid he shows his business acumen by selling hot-dogs, he rescues Minnie all over the place. You watch The Gallopin' Gaucho, where the white Valentino-style Gaucho is Mickey, and you can see that Walt Disney gave us a pure black-face cat, playing the guitar, when he meant a negro. I think with the broken-down carriages and po-dunk rural backgounds of the early cartoons, Walt is drawing on a Kansas or Missouri utopia, not Alabama. Betty Boop evolved from a dog character; when she did so, she evolved as a white woman, not as a mammie. For sure, all the early Disneys, Oswald and Mickey, have black bodies, but they have white faces, like Felix the Cat - clearly a black cat who had to be made white-faced so his audience wouldn't think they were watching a negro character. Felix was the template.

[@EducatedSkeptic]

And the reason that marijuana was classified in the same category as heroin is because THOSE people used it.... Louis Armstrong served jail time for minor possession, which hindered his appearing in many musical venues until his fame became too great to defy.

[@kingbolo4579]

@@microcomputermaster I agree with the original poster's thesis that minstrel shows were dedicated to the certainty that Blacks were stupid, lazy and unwilling to place work over entertainment. I disagree with your application of this analysis to Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse is a go-ahead white yankee character, energetic, white-faced, resourceful and brave. Where's the laziness? He plays all the music in Steamboat Willie and sets industriously about the potatoes, he preps the show in The Opry House and does half the acts (as a long-haired pianist, not a Black trope), as the Karnival Kid he shows his business acumen by selling hot-dogs, he rescues Minnie all over the place. You watch The Gallopin' Gaucho, where the white Valentino-style Gaucho is Mickey, and you can see that Walt Disney gave us a pure black-face cat, playing the guitar, when he meant a Black character. I think with the broken-down carriages and po-dunk rural backgounds of the early cartoons, Walt is drawing on a Kansas or Missouri utopia, not Alabama. Betty Boop evolved from a dog character; when she did so, she evolved as a white woman, not as a mam mie. For sure, all the early Disneys, Oswald and Mickey, have black bodies, but they have white faces, like Felix the Cat - clearly a black cat who had to be made white-faced so his audience wouldn't think they were watching a Black character. Felix was the template.

[@owadave]

I remember Robin Williams doing a skit on SNL where he played Buckley. I had no idea who Buckley was but thought the character was hilarious. Now that I see the real person I realize Robin Williams impersonation was almost perfect.

[@QuarrellaDeVil]

After you've seen Dan Aykroyd as Tom Snyder, you never see Tom Snyder the same way again. Or more specifically, you never hear him laugh the same way again.

[@koltonriley5929]

The world would be a better place with him still here.. miss Robin.

[@jeremymullins1294]

He’s does it twice in Aladdin too, as the genie

[@MelissaThompson432]

Buckley was an entitled racist hyperconservative who was so odious in his public life that he remains largely a mystery no one wants to solve.

[@tenofivelips]

You should check out the Buckley vs Vidal debates.

[@Forge17]

“I liked blackface shows because I was brought up on it, but it’s wrong today and I don’t think it’s appropriate because of the struggle they face”. Humble and principled response, no pretentious narrative or excuses to defend something he now knows is harmful.

[@tombofnagasadow]

That's literally not the quote. He says minstrel shows. At least quote him properly.

[@Forge17]

@@tombofnagasadow I’m paraphrasing, it’s the same concept. Except modern audiences don’t know what a minstrel show is.

[@patrickobrien8851]

@@Forge17 Correct. And Buckley was always such a donkey of a host. His eloquence was far too precious to take most of what he said seriously. I loved watching him debate more capable opponents (which means almost all opponents) and watch him (i.e. Buckley) deflect, or change the basis of the discussion, or threaten violence (which he did often). Gore Vidal, in particular, had Buckley's number, as did Noam Chomsky. I know folks who believe (and it has to be belief, and not knowledge) that Buckley had a very good command of the American language, but by non-American standards for the speaking of English, Buckley was average enough. Very glad to see Groucho being as thoughtful as one would expect of him.

[@bargainbassist]

@@patrickobrien8851 I wouldn’t say that Buckley was eloquent, because that would mean that he was persuasive, something I don’t find him to be. But he was doubtless articulate, because he could at times logically express his ideas with an awareness of their meaning. Unfortunately, he could at times come across as windy and overly concerned about visceral effect while trying to subtly bully any hosts he didn’t agree with. But eleoquent? No.

[@patrickobrien8851]

@@bargainbassist Eloquent has a number of meanings, and fluency of expression is one of them; Buckley certainly had this, whether or not one agrees with what most often came out of his mouth. Persuasiveness, for me, is a result of cogent and clear argument. I'm not interested in a person's eloquence when the basis of the argument is weak or contradictory. In particular, I was clear in my original post in differentiating between belief and knowledge, since eloquence alone will often work on believers, but is much less likely to be effective when used in the presence of people who think.

[@jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj178]

I never saw a tv host reclining and slouching like Buckley.

[@frez777]

he was getting ready for the 70's , we were cool back then

[@TundieRice]

@@frez777I don’t know if you can get any *less cool* than William F. Buckley, lol.

[@wfk3rd]

He bored himself almost to sleep.

[@haplessasshole9615]

It was his shtick. He'd contrive to look as though he was half asleep, and then try to ambush his guests.

[@dlh7989]

Craig Ferguson would often lean all the way back talking to his guests lol, Dana Carvey made fun of him for it in his appearance and called him "the most relaxed host in the history of television"

[@preacherjohn]

If that interviewer was any more laid back, he'd be a liquid! 😂

[@javierclement3047]

That’s because he’s also very famous himself. Buckley was his name.

[@bsfan6150]

Buckley was a legend back then, talking to Groucho, another legend.

[@Shorty_Lickens]

Humans are liquid. As are most life forms.

[@haplessasshole9615]

It was William F. Buckley's style. He was born rich, traveled everywhere, went to Yale, and always seemed certain he was the smartest person in the room -- which he often was. Buckley could go from slouching and drawling languidly (the Yalie thang, y'know) to a swift fusillade of multi-syllabic invective in the blink of an eye. He was like the cats you see who look absolutely content and sleepy, but suddenly attack from nowhere. I personally think he was a smugly conservative doink, but he was a smugly conservative doink with a moral compass and a great deal of integrity.

[@riparianlife97701]

Qualudes.

[@Bigfrank88]

Why does Buckley constantly look like he’s melting?

[@patdoyle2003]

Looks anxiety ridden with suppressed anger to me.

[@rcnelson]

He's right-leaning, that's why.

[@jamesrowden303]

Probably too drunk to sit up.

[@Dante-ki4ol]

Because "not working" was his default mode next to racism

[@marksinger2360]

Gore Vidal made him sit up.

[@Ryan-on5on]

Groucho was no ignorant fool stuck in the old ways of the past. He realized the culture had changed immensely since his turn-of-the-twentieth-century youth, that what had been a popular form of entertainment was becoming widely regarded as offensive and demeaning to black people, and he admitted this fact up-front to Buckley without any sign of regret or bemoaning. This shows great maturity and wisdom, and a capacity for accepting change!

[@Bobs2cents]

Very well said, thank you!

[@warheadsnation]

To give you a sense of where Groucho was politically by then, a couple of years before Watergate he told Dick Cavett on national TV that "This country isn't going anywhere until someone kills Richard Nixon." To give you a sense of where America was politically, he was not punished in any way for saying that.

[@virg0_lem0nade]

this comment reads like an A.I.-written summary

[@GreenEyedDazzler]

@@warheadsnationgive me an example of someone who said Biden or trump should be killed and then an example of them being prosecuted for it… you can’t

[@EducatedSkeptic]

And, of course, Groucho was Jewish. "Back in the old days," American Jews and Black Americans were a fairly tight political alliance because of a shared experience in blind discrimination.

[@c.gilliland8338]

Groucho, a comic genius and thoroughly decent and thoughtful man.

[@panushjo]

No decent man is a communist

[@LONESTARINDIE]

Yeah, real decent love of young girls he had, too

[@lewiscoacher7781]

@@LONESTARINDIE Why do you say that?

[@hillaryhess5716]

@@LONESTARINDIE are you confusing him with Charlie Chaplin?

[@markaho4777]

I liked harpo better🎼

[@heavycritic9554]

The people arguing that they should be allowed to be offensive, are making a bad faith argument. What they are actually arguing, is that they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

[@mikeg2491]

I didn’t see Groucho giving up the money he made from offensive comedy.

[@Deuteromis]

@@mikeg2491 That's cause he's dead numbnuts.

[@shadowalkerwho]

There are also different types and scales of "Offensive". There are times when comedy, especially satire, *should* be offensive and uses that offense to make the point. Groucho was a master of that sort of offensive comedy, the court jester offending the powerful to unmask their hypocrisy is not the same thing as the rich man tormenting the down trodden and laughing about it. Too many people fail to grasp that not all offense is or should be equal in weight or intent.

[@bargainbassist]

@@mikeg2491 I might not personally approve some of Groucho’s humor, but no one can ever say that his humor was cruel, nor did it “other” persons with a different racial or cultural background or those who had non-mainstream lifestyle choices. Those forms of “humor” are simply ridicule, bigotry, or bullying, things I don’t like or appreciate.

[@mikeg2491]

@@bargainbassist he did blackface himself

[@heroclix0rz]

People today unironically say "you couldn't make X today because we're too PC", not even stopping to think about why.

[@toucansam3]

Maybe because in many cases, there is no why. Blackface became unacceptable organically as a result of the passage of time. Today, many things deemed "too PC" became that way as a result of manufactured outrage created by people looking to give their lives meaning.

[@dragonwell7747]

@@toucansam3​​⁠No, it was not just the “passage of time” that made us abandon blackface, but the realization that it’s racist and dehumanizing to black people in general, esp given the historical context of their slavery. It was much like today where the so called “manufactured outrage” as you call it helped make people aware of the fact that we were treating black people like shit and still do so in some way, although in a less obvious way.

[@toucansam3]

@@dragonwell7747 The realization happened as a result of the "passage of time", that's how these things work. And I've got bad news for you: black people treat other black people worse than white people could ever hope to. Plus I love that phrase "less obvious way", because what that does is open the door for people like you to interpret anything as racism. Its all about being a victim and obtaining the status that that designation brings.

[@JarrodFrates]

​@@toucansam3The same claims of political correctness driving entertainment have been around for a very long time. It's been used since at least the 1930s in the US to describe people who called out demeaning content. Blackface and other negative portrayals didn't lose acceptance "organically" or with "the passage of time." They were actively argued against, picketed, and boycotted, as were the places that hosted them. People who grew up with them said there was nothing wrong with them and declared those calling for their end "politically correct," basically telling them to shut up and let the derogatory content continue. Some, like Groucho Marx here, understood that what they grew up with was no longer acceptable and why, but they tend to be the quieter ones.

[@nezahuatez]

@@toucansam3the fucking dishonesty in you. Pisses me off you don’t even bother to learn.

[@maxxam4665]

If he said that today you'd have a lot of grifters making living out of drama calling him woke, sjw and other demented terms.

[@thepianist7084]

I don’t think so, because he’s not acting like he’s better than those who enjoyed those shows when they were younger. The problem with today’s approach, is we like we’re so much better than those who went before simply because they enjoyed blackface comedy, etc. So he would not be called woke today because of his humble approach. If anything, he’d probably be seen as a conservative bigot for not being so militantly self-righteous in his condemnation of the past.

[@fronhank]

​@@thepianist7084 I have to disagree here. If a person simply observes an instance of cultural appropriation and points it out, without any hint of superiority, there will inevitably be some freaks out there calling them a woke sjw. The superiority thing is irrelevant. There are many people who simply do not like acknowledging these issues and, ironically, get triggered whenever they are brought up.

[@bunnerkins]

​@@thepianist7084goddam you are an angry little person.

[@rasurin]

​@@thepianist7084that's just you projecting

[@thepianist7084]

@@rasurin Sorry you got triggered by my observation but it is the truth. We act all self-righteous now which is different than Groucho. Now we accuse people of racism every which way we turn, instead of trying to understand one another. It's sad. People like Charlie Pride and Sidney Poitier did more to help the relationship between races than most anybody, yet we forget their contributions, because they did it with understanding, and patience, and didn't call others racist and other names, and didn't accuse people of projectionism simply because they made a soft truth-statement that showed a mirror to the accusers.

[@Pulang_Diwa]

"Well.." *HOLD ON THERE PARD'NER.*

[@Syngekhoomei]

The perfect edit

[@r3tr0actiongamer24]

If Groucho were alive today the right would have called him woke

[@michaeledwards6683]

they call everything woke because they are afraid of engaging with any topic that makes them uncomfortable

[@revolutionhamburger]

The Left would have sicced the "Me Too" cancel gang after him and he'd be gone.

[@Deuteromis]

​@@revolutionhamburger He was never accused of sexual assault moron. But if we continue with your logic, you basically are saying the right would be 100% ok with it... 🙄

[@jedijones]

Because the right is out there arguing we should have more minstrel shows? When did they ever do this?

[@Deuteromis]

@@jedijones They would and do consider it funny given how much you still see people doing black face and them ignoring it or trying to defend it.

[@davidmundowyahoo7839]

Anyone disagreeing with Grouch Marx needs to go away and have a little talk with themselves

[@prisonersforprofit]

groucho always ahead of his time.

[@seanm3226]

Actually, if he was ahead of his time he wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

[@karlhungusjr1]

@@seanm3226 he didn't "do" blackface.

[@prisonersforprofit]

@@seanm3226 groucho was born in 1890, nyc. blackface was pretty much done professionally around 1910, it would survive in some places like the south and amateur theater. its heyday was in the 1830's and 40's, before the civil war, it depicted unintelligent and happy slaves, slavery and blackface was even controversial way back then.

[@a.champagne6238]

​@@karlhungusjr1he did in 'A Day at the Races.'

[@humphreybogart6663]

​@@a.champagne6238that isn't black face. Disguising to blend in with a crowd is not the same as replacing. Most misunderstood sequence. I think it was ahead of its time and gave great exposure to some awesome performers.

[@williampilling2168]

William F Buckley always looked like he was moments away from sliding out of his chair.

[@Driven2Beers]

Billy needs a double espresso,

[@terrorsaur599]

Moe Howard of The Three Stooges literally started his comedy career by doing live, minstrel show-type blackface performances. There is even a Stooges short which feature them doing blackface (Uncivil War Birds). When Curly and Shemp died, however, Moe offered black comedian Mantan Moreland a chance to join the act. The studio refused though. People aren’t perfect. They make many mistakes and sometimes don’t even realize it. What ultimately matters is if they learn from them and change themselves for the better. The fact that Groucho and Moe did tells you what kind of person they were. May they Rest In Peace.

[@palmshoot]

Or course, there was Black gentleman and bady on at least two different episodes.

[@lizardman7364]

What does Moe Howard have to do with anything?

[@ploppysonofploppy6066]

Always liked Groucho. Like him even more now!

[@johnnyquid-xj4kk]

Correct

[@haruruben]

I wish more people would be honest eaters like this, sometimes you tell a joke and you didn’t mean anything by it but it was far too hurtful to someone so you don’t tell it anymore. People clinging on to these old hateful ways is really deranged

[@QED_]

"Someone" (?) _One_ person has veto power to decide what is "hateful" or not (?) Oh, you don't mean that (?) Is it _two_ people, then (?) _Five_ (?) How many (?) Or maybe . . . this is a complete nonsense (?)

[@QED_]

BTW: I am a "someone" and I find your comment to be too hurtful. So please delete forthwith . . .

[@Stathio]

@@QED_ Why are you so offended by the idea of people not wanting to hurt others?

[@QED_]

@@Stathio Because . . . that idea itself hurts people.

[@willumbermarchant5510]

If a joke has offended you personally, it is offensive. If you are offended on the part of someone else, that does not mean it is actually offensive. But most of all, humour should never be 'punching down' - it's mean spirited, and you aren't funny if you rely on it.

[@westmcgee9320]

Can’t ask for a whole lot more than that. Flat out honest. I’m not mad at that. Self aware. Considerate of others.

[@ZergRushJohnny]

That "Well..." at the end is Buckley's entire being in one word.

[@riparianlife97701]

And now he's a dead bigot.

[@ericsaylor5722]

One thing I like about his response is that he admits he still likes the humor he knew as a younger man, but accepts that it shouldn’t continue. Today, people like to lie and claim that they always found “x” offensive. Groucho simply accepts that the times have changed, without posturing. I like him more now.

[@hotelmario510]

What a surprisingly nuanced take. This is the most sincere I've ever seen Groucho be.

[@charlesameyer1]

Buckley should have sat up and spoken clearly. He was in the company of royalty.

[@patrickbyrne5070]

Well said. As an Englishman with little love for the monarchy - I would stand to attention for Groucho and sit back down for the king

[@charlesameyer1]

@@patrickbyrne5070 I love it! If I may say, the difference between Groucho and the King is that the latter is only funny unintentionally. As for Buckley, well, the less said the better IMHO!

[@Ddoc080]

The main thing I learned from this is that Right Wing commentator's have literally been making the same complaints for 50 years. Wah wah, the world is changing and we don't like it.... Nothing new.

[@keefriff99]

So goddamned true…and the ignorant, disaffected, grievance-addicted idiots who follow these fraudulent charlatans eat it up every time. Joe Pyne…Bob Grant…Gordon Liddy…Morton Downey Jr…Rush Limbaugh…Sean Hannity…Bill O’Reilly…Glenn Beck…Tucker Carlson… Same old story…an angry white guy blames all THEIR problems on liberals, minorities, immigrants, gay people…rinse and repeat.

[@thenaturalmidsouth9536]

And Buckley was a prime whiner about...erudite, but still a whiny baby.

[@Pleasestoptalkingthanks]

We’re getting there. Eventually people will realize these wackos will always exist and just start ignoring them as they rightfully should be.

[@lysanamcmillan7972]

@@thenaturalmidsouth9536 Bigotry and backward thinking in a posh accent is merely genteel hatred for sure.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@lysanamcmillan7972 The British built (or, rather, justified the building of) an empire on that aesthetic, after all.

[@BraveryWing26]

I was so ready for this to be mocking black people and Groucho be in make up. I am so sorry Mr Marx. You are gold.

[@karlhungusjr1]

so apparently the algorithm has, in the last few hours, brought us all to a 3 year old video of an interview that took place in 1967 because...ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM!!

[@kirkdarling4120]

Weird, isn't it?

[@chucksucks8640]

I have noticed that as well. I think it is because of president biden.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM

[@ManfredFechter-kc7iy]

For me it's all go rhythm, it brought me two new musicians that only have a few clicks, but are great! Mystical Algorithm rules here on YT!

[@erinrising2799]

An algorithm is never late, nor is he early, it arrives precisely when it means to

[@LazerEyez]

That’s not the answer the host was after 😂

[@b.f.skinner4383]

Bill Buckley leans right, literally - anon

[@christophercooper6731]

Interesting that he said that before the heyday of the _Black and White Minstrel Show_ on the BBC in the 1970s, the decade that taste forgot.

[@georgeg2702]

The show ran from 1958 - 1978 in the UK, pretty much continually in that format. It was attracting criticism (and parody) almost from the start.

[@voltijuice8576]

@@georgeg2702 - It was before my time, but even in the 60s, B&WMS was literally a punchline on radio show Round the Horne.

[@georgeg2702]

@voltijuice8576 Also before my time (but not by much) .. Google 'Millicent Martin the Mississippi song' - from TW3 circa 1963/4 on YT .. About 4 minutes - very cutting and savage - it's the lyrics.

[@voltijuice8576]

@@georgeg2702 - Dayum… that’s a subversive use of minstrel tropes to skewer US racism. That contrast between the superficial charm and the deeper horror.

[@lysanamcmillan7972]

Does the Beeb still do Pat and Mike jokes?

[@olyokie]

Buckley was certainly one of the greatest pretentious prigs in US history……

[@MacHeath699]

And also a world-class racist, as revealed in his debate with James Baldwin. Baldwin cuts him to ribbons, and Buckley is so mired in self-infatuation and patrician hauteur that he doesn’t even realize it.

[@antoinepetrov]

I read "pigs" and still agreed with you

[@MacHeath699]

@@antoinepetrov Both words are equally apt.

[@your_royal_highness]

The biggest prig

[@GH-oi2jf]

In the 2nd half of the 20th century, anyway. There must have been some great ones in earlier times.

[@shavingdave1]

I think William F. Buckley is trying to take a nap in his chair! LoL.

[@millsyinnz]

We have the same debates, over and over and over again. First time I have seen Groucho without his makeup tho. Such a difference

[@nolancheck1465]

Comedians today are making careers whining about wokeness and political correctness; meanwhile Groucho himself had the right idea all along

[@CSXIV]

Most of the comedians whining about woke and political correctness are either (a) comedians who appeal only to right wing audiences and this whining is a part of thier act, or (b) are not popular anymore, are repeating the same stale jokes they'vemade for decades, and overall do not appeal to the current generation, and when given the choice of retirement or changing thier act to fit the current times, they instead choose option 3 and whine. Something I heard from a comedian: "it's my job to make you laugh. It's not your job to laugh at me no matter what. If you're not laughing, then I'm failing at my job."

[@hooch87]

@@CSXIV Comedians hate authoritarianism and censorship whereas people like you love it. You are the bad guy, not them.

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

@@davedanger4414 They both do it mouthbreather. The left has made a platform on subjugation to counter subjugation of thought. You're both insufferable.

[@CJBerdomas]

@@hooch87Give me a break. The right are the ones who ban books(and burn them) ranting about free speech but whine like bitches when they get called out for being dicks. Hell in the United States, a lot of people on the Right view former President Donald Trump as the second coming of Jesus Christ. Yeah the left can be pussies, but don’t act like the right isn’t just as hypocritical and authoritarian. Also there are plenty of comics who are offensive who are popular, Bill Burr comes immediately to mind. You all are just mad that you can’t say slurs anymore.

[@McFatteh]

​@CSXIV I once said in a tipsy state at a work function "It's not that political correctness is ruining comedy, it's that comedy has a higher standard now" And to be honest, I don't even know if that's true but at least one of the other tipsy people seemed impressed so I thought I'd share it haha

[@madmartigan8119]

Sooo woke, oh wait that word didn't exist then, it was called decency

[@kylezo]

Woke most definitely existed then, it was coined by black American leftists as early as the 1930's in reference to being aware of how they're exploited by neocolonialism and capitalism. It's only in the last 5 years that the American theofascist alt-whyt has attempted to co-opt it by purposefully misusing it

[@mathew6996]

"how dare he go woke"

[@joshuah9109]

I know this doesn't have anything to do with their discussion, but good God man, sit up!

[@thereliablesource7938]

Nowadays lots of comedians push back in the idea that something funny in the past couldn’t be accepted today. Marx understands things change, thus comedy and whats considered “bad taste” changes. Wish more comedians had this kind of maturity, they’d be funny for a longer time!

[@greenrobot5]

This man understood the meaning of a struggle, but today when people ask for certain jokes not to be told because they're offensive they get called "snowflakes"

[@samb8744]

He’d 100% be called a woke sjw today.

[@bargainbassist]

@@samb8744 And that’s unfortunate on the part of idiots who might direct that epithet toward him. Pity the small-minded (who usually have small hearts, as well).

[@catsupchutney]

That's free speech; the right to call people names.

[@JoeOvercoat]

@@samb8744No way. 😂

[@philipgroves7309]

Groucho Marx was an intellectual and a liberal. Just like the terms "colored" or "negro" were respectable terms in 1967, blackface comedy of vaudeville was not commonly understood to be the cringy, offensive thing that it is back in the day. But a thoughtful person like Groucho could look back at that and say, yeah, that was wrong and that was offensive. That is how our society progresses. .

[@stewmott3763]

That interviewer's about to fall off the chair.

[@coasternut3091]

Groucho outclassed Buckley the entire interview

[@warlordofbritannia]

My grandmother who grew up in the Great Depression and had a favorite word during the Obama administration was classier than Buckley

[@fawfulmark2]

To put this under modern context: one of my favorite sitcoms growing up was Married... with Children. One of my favorite anime ever is Cromartie High School. An episode of the former closed out on the punchline that one of the few women to legitimately have feelings for Bud Bundy(whose running gag is that he always failed at getting a girlfriend) was born a man. The Dub of Cromartie tried to mimic the lingo of High School delinquents in the 2000s, and in one of the jokes from the dub they dropped the hard "f" word to mock some characters. These shows are still funny for me, and among my faves, and still give me chuckles. But what I enjoyed 20 years ago isn't automatically stuff that folks from 20 years later would appreciate, so I have learned not to go full Dickwolf if something I enjoy can occasionally be seen as an issue by others. It's just like how the FGC(fighting games community mind) eventually grew out of using the phrase of r-ping an opponent when beating them in a match- so too can we adapt our forms of humor from time to time too.

[@Paul-vf2wl]

Today the headline would be : "Groucho Enjoys Minstrel Shows"!

[@robertmartin4449]

I have never seen anyone sit in a chair like that before. Lol.

[@petersimm5788]

Jiminy Glick?

[@Mxyzptlksac]

Is that sitting or ooozing

[@3b106]

Leave him alone, he's made of wax

[@robertmartin4449]

@@3b106 hahaha my apologies. I didn’t know. My grandfather was made of wax also.

[@Mxyzptlksac]

@@3b106 Then he’s melting

[@rogerw3818]

Groucho would be condemned as "WOKE!" by the blathering idiots today.

[@migcap7356]

When you look in the dictionary of the phrase "Lean Back, Lean Back"... You don't see Terror Squad... you see the OG 'WILLIAM BUCKLEY'🤣🤣🤣......

[@bikkiikun]

Honest about his past, but also realising the necessary changes and the reasons for those changes.

[@Pazuzu-2048]

What happened to the painting back there?

[@ChuckstaGaming]

Interesting that minstrel shows were frowned upon in 1967 in the USA, when I remember minstrel shows were shown regularly UK television. As a child I always found them really boring, lol. But I was only a very young child.

[@MrBulky992]

I am a little older but of the same era and had a similar reaction to you. I did find them rather odd: why were all the men in blackface and the women not? I couldn't quite see the point of the disguise and didn't like the songs or the way they were sung either. I thought the over-the-top facial expressions and gestures such as jazz hands were silly. The George Mitchell Minstrels did a series without the facepaint and costumes that went with them but the public clamoured to have them back the way they were before. I never really found them racist as they didn't look in any way like real black people.

[@michaelchallis4129]

Would you be interested in them now?

[@Garbageman28]

Different generation to you but even as a kid I thought stuff like Little Britain was a bit mental. Genuinely felt contemptuous of all humanity.

[@MrBulky992]

​@@Garbageman28​Well, I suppose people might wrongly assume from the show that all disabled people are taking advantage of the good nature of their carers in a capricious and contrarian way to the point of faking their incapacity as Andy does but I never interpreted it that way myself: I always found it funny because of the tiny possibility that there might be such a type of person as this, albeit atypical and rare! The same might be true of some of the other characters. The same must be true of "the only gay in the village" or even "I'm a lady". Most people in offices aren't like "computer says no" but we recognise that a few are! Most weight loss consultants don't insult their clientele, especially if they have an extremely mild Indian accent!

[@Garbageman28]

@@MrBulky992 it’s less that more all the blackface/yellowface/mockery of neurodivergent children that I don’t like.

[@patricky101]

He's clearly a very intelligent man who knows that custom and normalcy is relative. Things change as understanding widens, and smart people can change with them.

[@JaredGriffiths2000]

0:12 Maybe not on American television in the 60s, but believe it or not there was a British tv show called "The Black and White Minstrel Show" which ran from 1958 to 1978.

[@beatonthedonis]

Groucho had 10x the intellect and empathy of Buckley.

[@user-vv9lr2rw5d]

No he didn’t. They’re both smart but Buckley was brilliant

[@beatonthedonis]

@@user-vv9lr2rw5d Buckley got his a** handed to him by Vidal and Chomsky.

[@user-vv9lr2rw5d]

@@beatonthedonis hahahahaha. Sure he did. Sure.

[@user-ff4lr2jj5r]

@@user-vv9lr2rw5d No, he wasn't. I grew up in his era and he said from pretty stupid and petty things.

[@user-ff4lr2jj5r]

@@user-vv9lr2rw5d Glad you have the brains to agree.

[@TheMKCrab]

"When did Groucho Marx turn woke???" / sarcasm

[@thescowlingschnauzer]

"You couldn't have a minstrel show now, could you?" "You couldn't make Blazing Saddles today, could you?"

[@Threetails]

Groucho was a treasure. Greatly missed!

[@victorconway444]

Lot of old people can learn something from this man

[@williamgregory1848]

I love Groucho Marx’s answer. He’s not defending blackface comedy per se. He’s acknowledging that yes, it may have been funny back when he was coming up as a comedian but now, it’s not funny today. He doesn’t regret it but he just wouldn’t do those kinds of jokes today. And that’s what most comics should say: It may have been funny (and maybe wrong) back then and I don’t regret it (depending on the joke or act) but I wouldn’t do that today. (Which is different from a lot bitter old “comedians” who would rather bitch and moan about “political correctness” and “wokeness”.)

[@Hexon66]

Yes, we just listened to the man. Why do you feel the need to interpret what we all heard? Only the last parenthetic sentence has any value.

[@tedpikul1]

Some people are good.

[@leogolive]

It was wrong during the time you were brought up with minstrel shows too. “Colored” folks had struggles then as well Groucho.

[@retroinspect]

Groucho is saying with zero subtext that jokes shouldn't punch down.

[@hilariousname6826]

And many people commenting here are saying with zero subtext that they like jokes that punch down.

[@retroinspect]

@@hilariousname6826 I just can’t imagine living in a world where Groucho’s ghost is upset at me.

[@strangerinastrangeland3613]

@@hilariousname6826 Lots of people commenting here are also posting outright bigoted vitriol, lol. I don't think you should equate common consensus with goodness.

[@hilariousname6826]

@@strangerinastrangeland3613 ... um ... I don't ...........

[@upsidedownpeter5939]

​@@hilariousname6826Quite a lot of jokes punch down. I'm not saying they HAVE to punch down, but they do. If you think this kind of humor is evil and needs to be phased out, you'd be surprised how much comedians, and shows like Family Guy and Drawn Together perfect this type of humor and do it well. The majority of what I'm seeing in this comment section is "I'm morally superior and therefore better than you, you are an evil conservative chud fascist reactionary"

[@tom-mp7ki]

God bless Groucho 👍

[@markriffey8899]

Wise and compassionate man. He realizes that what entertained us when we were young, doesn’t always age well. It’s not about being woke, or politically correct, but about realizing how leaning heavily on stereotypes can make people feel like lesser humans.

[@zigwil153]

There is pompous, and there's Buckley....

[@mariotaz]

So what you're saying is, in modern 2024 terms is: He became a woke SJW?

[@warlordofbritannia]

I can’t keep up with the right, are they actually bringing SJW back? Are they truly that devoid of imagination?

[@dabellwrites6888]

In other words, it's better when everyone is laugh together.

[@Dave_L]

It's great to see how things come in and out of fashion!

[@ManiacX1999]

They figured out, then admitted, that some comedy doesn't age well over 60 years ago. But you try and say that today and people will label you soft and act like all humor should never change, grow or adapt.

[@tankinam]

Ive never expected a guy with a piglin pfp to comment in a groucho marx vid. Thats like 1 in a trillion

[@ManiacX1999]

@@tankinam it used to be a Zombie Pigman but they went and changed that, so I did too

[@stevenhaas9622]

Buckley alway looked like he was on the other side of half dozen gin and tonics. Because he was.

[@InappropriateFab]

Bill Buckley looks like he's been smoking opium.

[@oddballskull1941]

Yea, but he never saw tropic thunder

[@MrAitraining]

Bill buckley sitting overly comfortable lol

[@dukeon]

Manspreading I think it’s called 😄

[@bzakie2]

Wow..Groucho spot on in 1967. Ahead of his time.

[@hilariousname6826]

No - right at his time, where he should have been.

[@kommissar.murphy]

This puts a whole new spin on Humpty Hump and Digital Underground! I like to think Groucho would have laughed his ass off at Humpty Dance. "I once got busy in a Burger King bathroom..."

[@PaulBrown-il3wl]

I wouldn’t join any club that’d have me as a member.

[@ST-gd4eq]

Buckley seems to be the Forrest Gump of interviewers. The guy has had an audience with every old school famous person.

[@zapfdingbat]

and just as dumb

[@niko5008]

​@@zapfdingbat?

[@jackmonaghan8477]

Groucho was truly based. A man of principles, and if you don't like them he has others.

[@warlordofbritannia]

Lmao, very Groucho-esque wordplay 😂

[@moonstoneuniverse8516]

And there’s still people who do black face today

[@bocagoodtimes1460]

If he only knew how it all turned out…😂.

[@jayneroberts1236]

Man people would call him woke now

[@nothinglikeasongbird]

They've really been doing the "Society's too woke!! you can't make these extremely racist jokes anymore!!!" shtick forever haven't they

[@DragonMaiden77]

I wish people were more thoughtful today. We are a culture that only thinks about our own thoughts and wants though. It is so sad

[@weaselwolf]

Good to see racists have been whining about the death of their lazy brand of comedy over for half a century now.

[@carl-cr7rp]

Well said.

[@sleepcity]

Leave it to Buckley to mourn the loss of racist jokes and blackface.

[@dannytse8767]

Recently, Eddie Murphy expressed the same sentiments about the material he did back in the 80s. He described it as "cringy" and he said it was a different time back then.

[@jbak87]

Nah! He's just embarrassed he is being remembered as a homophobe. He's not sorry whatsoever.

[@Vikashar]

Where is his cigar?

[@backupceej3252]

He likes his cigar, but he takes it out once in a while.

[@jeffcolorado]

This statement shows how views change gradually and honestly over time. Even though Groucho is clearly expressing a positive and progressive idea for the time, he still used the term "colored people", and meant absolutely no disrespect when saying it.

[@Wotsitorlabart]

Your looking back at this time through 2024 eyes. The main organisation promoting equal rights for black Americans at the time was and still is called the 'National Association for the Advancement of Colored People'.

[@jeffcolorado]

@@Wotsitorlabart I grew up in that time. I'm simply saying in this time, it would be considered rude, or at least uninformed if a white person referred to a black person as a colored person. Change is gradual. That's the point I was trying to express, however imperfectly.

[@MacHeath699]

@@jeffcoloradoYou expressed it very clearly; your responder misunderstood your point.

[@Wotsitorlabart]

@@jeffcolorado It's just that you say that although Groucho is clearly progressive in outlook - 'he still used the term colored people, and meant no disrespect when saying it'. This seems to suggest that in 1967 the term was deemed disrespectful - at least that is how I see it. I'm English so I have no idea what or was not acceptable language in the late 1960's.

[@jeffcolorado]

@@Wotsitorlabart The term "colored people" was widely used in the 60's, with no ill intent. My own mother had no apparent ill will for black people, but she used the term "darkies", if she referred to blacks at all. I lived in a city of about 40,000 in the middle of the USA, at the time, and there were no black folks in that city at all then. We had a whole lot of ignorance, about many things back then.

[@brodycrider]

So a person can do something offensive in the past, grow, and still have a career.

[@bipolarbear7325]

I've never seen an interviewer with such a casual posture. Like he doesn't want to be there.

[@littlefieryone2825]

I respect what Marx is saying and agree with it, but right after he said "Well I like minstrel shows," KZbin paused to buffer for a solid five seconds and that made me laugh. It was like the internet itself was saying "Hol' up."

[@lamecasuelas2]

Go Groucho!!