Group-C Racing - Porsche 962C vs. Sauber C9

[@stianby]

Epic! absolutely epic! For me, too young to have witnessed the magnificent group C in the 80's this brings tears to my eyes. I faintly remember the Rothman's Porsches, but this is a much more up to date and hands on experience.

[@danielschwarz3919]

Preaching to your choir! !!!THX to everybody envolved in putting those cars on the track nowadays!!! Watching them live these days (at Spa) is half the fun, as they aren't racing as hard as in those days, obviously. This also applies to Group B Rally Cars! God, I wish to be born earlier! Those were the good old days... It's still a great feeling being around these cars, hearing and smelling them, it's truly epic!

[@theant9821]

Daniel Schwarz I know the feeling, I was born in 1993, the wrong era is my era. The 70's and 80's is the peak of motorsports excitement, be it endurance, grand prix, rallying (group 4 and b), etc. There are very few exceptions to this rule. At least with rallying the old dogs still can fight tooth and nail(the escorts and 911s mostly). Bring hardcore racing back to the track.

[@bicyclist2]

I was born in the 70's so I grew up in the 80's. I didn't get to see much racing on TV, but I read about them in any good car mag I could get my hands on.

[@in4merATP]

Watching this man, lap by lap, slowly remember how to drive this 962 well in anger was one of the most triumphant things I've seen.

[@derkoettner]

I remember when I was a child in 84 we were at a group c race. It was unbeliveably loud. Bellof won :-)

[@anynamewilldo808]

23:50 was a moment he won't forget. That was pretty close, and an indication of just how big a difference there is in speed between the different classes.

[@thethirdman225]

Regout is a pretty good driver.

[@rolandomartinez3016]

I was lucky to witness Al Holbert 962 at a IMSA event in the late 80s. at Del Mar Ca. Incredible sound!!!

[@nplus1watches35]

Yep, the #14 Lowenbrau Special. Good times.

[@MichaelClifford164]

Great stuff, especially the onboard footage! I wish I was around to watch these cars in-period! The 962 looks just a tad quicker than our Cortina...

[@digilux4017]

Group-C the best era of motorsport!

[@VilleKovacs]

stellar job on keeping the sauber visible

[@thethirdman225]

He _beat_ the Sauber.

[@jeremyelectronic8613]

@@thethirdman225 yep - woosh! See ya! Wow.

[@thethirdman225]

Jeremy Electronic Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

[@SonicProvocateur]

Sauber driver drover a killer race in a killer car. Just made a mistake getting held up in traffic in Blanchimont and cost him the race to the Porsche.

[@bicyclist2]

Just beautiful. I've driven this track on a racing simulator. Spa is one of my favorate tracks. Thanks so much for the memories.

[@thebones]

when are producers of motorsport racing videos going to realise that 'muzak' is not required - at all! FFS.

[@krm83000]

The ultimate race cars ! Thanks for the upload !

[@bicyclist2]

That is beautiful. I could watch that all day. I wish I was a IMSA race driver. Thanks.

[@StatikTronik]

I've heard of the race in Le Mans but i couldn't go there at the time. Nevermind thank you for telling me about the race in October, i'm going to try to have more information about it, I definitively need to see it ! Thank you very much for answering and continue your videos please, they are great !

[@MPZRACEVIDEO]

Gratulation zum 300.Video - auf zu den nächsten 300 !! ;-) (freu mich schon auf Le Mans Classic Material) Ach ja, der MOMO Nissan ist genial !!

[@archetypex65]

Group-C....the best!

[@garthrupert7610]

Arguably the greatest Racing Series EVER!!!!!!❤❤

[@rudyjacket5882]

Real machines, big ball drivers and brutallllll music out of the pipes! The king class of racing!!

[@josecarloscordero4564]

the Porsche 962 group C its an amazing amazing car, but the Sauber c9 is a orgasm

[@kramer5772]

couldn't agree more

[@josecarloscordero4564]

jajajajajaja no puedo decidirme por uno, tal vez me quedaria con el 962

[@georgedavis9411]

I remember not to long ago a evo 962 was put to the test at the nurabring beat the track record by almost 1 hole minute look it up but it was 5:19 ,the ride along was freecky fast almost like a game it hard to wrap your brain around.from the late 60 to the 80s there was a lot of kitchen cars

[@4CiD88]

@George Davis No, it was a modern 919 evo hybrid

[@928pcar]

Porsche for me all the way but the Sauber is on a different level sound wise

[@JonesBerg76]

Super Video, die schönsten Rennwagen die es gibt: Gruppe C !!

[@robertmamarella1952]

God, How I miss the Group "C" Ground efects chassis. Those were the Days of real Racing. Yup!

[@fargeeks]

im thinking group c cars were geared towards being the fastest racing cars and f1 being the quickests racing cars

[@thethirdman225]

@@fargeeks You mean there’s a difference? That sounds like bishops debating how many angels could fit on the head of a pin.

[@fargeeks]

@@thethirdman225 fast speeds vs fast corner

[@VACATETHE48]

I'm 100% sure I know what I'm talking about. The Peugeot 908 (HDi FAP) was an LMP that was ran as Audi's top competitor from 2007-2011. The Peugeot 905, debuting in 1991, then modified to the 905 Evo 1B in 1992 and ran again in 1993, winning both years, was a group C1 World Sportscar (The only error I made). Not to mention, two cars had completely different engines. Peugeot 908 had a 5.5L Turbodiesel V12, that revved about 6500rpm Peugeot 905 had a 3.5L V10, that revved about 12500rpm.

[@VF1Skullangel]

It really hasn't since that technology is still being used in many Supercars today. Where do you think the Supercar began? What do you think they're still using today?

[@motorsportvideo]

there was a Group-C race in Le Mans two weeks ago. And they race once again in France on the Circuit Paul Ricard in October 2012.

[@rahkinrah1963]

EXCELLENT video! Thank you!

[@igorvarela7902]

Short versión or long versión the 962?

[@PSNcharlie97]

@Harri Clein, the 962C just wasn't all that competitive on high speed tracks after '88. Porsche had announced that they would make no more factory efforts for Le Mans following the win that Jaguar managed at Le Mans, their stance literally was "We've won too much". The only 962s that raced after '88 were privateer cars, so it's granted that a private effort would not come close to the manufacturer efforts of Mercedes Benz. Plus, the C9 just had too much power under the bonnet for the 962 to win.

[@thethirdman225]

Your first comment was more accurate than your second. Porsche were still winning races as late as 1988. Porsche dropped their factory support just as Mercedes announced their factory sponsorship for Sauber. The Sauber's power has been overestimated. In reality, they were not that different. It looks different here because they are not running to Group C fuel allocation regulations. When they were the difference wasn't that great. The spec sheet figures show pretty clearly that the Mercedes M119 and say, the Jaguar V12 had similar amounts of power and torque but delivered differently (the Sauber's torque "curve" was almost flat between 3,000 and 6,000 RPM). Both had about the same power in race trim and both had about the same torque. Martin Brundle said the biggest difference was in handling and road holding. He found he could just about keep up with the Sauber in straight line but couldn't quite do it in twisty stuff.

[@donandmariamiles6413]

Wish you had shown the next 1/2 lap.! From memory the Porsche was smashed to bits and all over the road at the back of the circuit. I remember picking my way through the debris . and un lapping myself as the pace car picked up the merc. Was one hell of a race.

[@chunder27]

Is this car built using a 935 motor? Only 4 speeds?

[@Tequilasaur]

it's 5 speed here

[@KingCorny93]

Ich hab mich grad in ein Rennwagen verliebt :D Der Mercedes Sauber C9 ist eine Legende *-*

[@motorsportvideo]

the car #11 is a Lancia LC2. The engine was based on the V8 from the Ferrari 308, but with 3000ccm and two KKK Turbochargers.

[@xjohnnyxriverra]

where is Toyota Minolta? i keep searching for it on youtube i have no luck finding at all.

[@diegofernandorodriguez4973]

Las bestias del grupo C...siempre estarán con nosotros....

[@MG421982]

what's the leading car (3rd on the grid), that broke down ?!?! It kept the Sauber and Porsche behind quite easily.

[@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

And fiannly we found a proper driver for those monsters!!! Stunning driving!

[@harriclein9659]

this Benz C9 is AWESOME.even the 962 Porsche could not beat it.

[@thethirdman225]

The 962C was about three years older than the C9. It also won a lot more races than the C9, including this one. I actually rate the 956/962 the greatest of all racing Porsches and that includes the 917. That's what its race record says too. In four seasons there were only four or five races won by anything other than Porsches. That makes it arguably the greatest ever.

[@aerodynamic1440]

23:50 962 overtook the Mercedes.

[@wermach123]

I can remember a very young Wayne Taylor having some great drives in that FSI Spice.

[@LaCorvette]

These car make me feel good. Also I like the style of your videos! Chapeau!

[@improvisu]

What car is that at 3:06?

[@iliamakosi268]

Spice SE89C

[@StatikTronik]

@motorsportvideo please are there any other race like these ? it is awesome i'd love to see one ... please anwer if you see the message thanks

[@aerodynamic1440]

Was the Jägermeister Porsche a bit underpowered than the standard 962?

[@thethirdman225]

No. Why?

[@Stihl1106]

Warum ist bei dem Sauber das rechte Rücklicht eigentlich so grün umrahmt?

[@jameslaumand3686]

Is that track hunted

[@VantageCigarretes]

Great video, and great climatic music.

[@TheChaosChamp]

Yes the last world season but inf fact the group C Toyotas and the Peugeot still driving the Endurance Races without Championship so it was 1993 - but it starts in 1982 - so we have 8 years in the eightys and 4 years in the ninetys and the porsche 962 C drive since 1985 and the Sauber C89 in 1989 so you want back to the eightys right??? :P

[@rahkinrah1963]

This "era" was THE BEST!

[@Spineloro]

Great shooting👍✨

[@ElAlgasiras]

Vielen vielen Dank für das tolle Video. Wer hat denn da so souverän gewonnen? Nissan?

[@Bigsbeee]

962 only 4 spd ?

[@DDMHistorics]

Saw these guys at Silverstone classic!! Epic sounds!! The Sauber C9 won by a long way!

[@aerodynamic1440]

Look at 23:50 962 overtook the Mercedes

[@Glibzer]

Didnt the nissans at the time have more power argueably?

[@thethirdman225]

That’s the rumour. But the power outputs of these cars are not totally defined and the internet would have you believe just about anything. In fact, the Nissan was a purpose built race engine, while the Sauber Mercedes was a racing version of the M119 road car engine. The fuel allocation standard meant that the teams struggled to get the best trade off between power and fuel economy they could. The object was to get as much power out of every drop as possible. The differences were likely to be relatively minor. I have read that the Nissan put out about 800 hp against 730 for the Mercedes and 745 for the Jaguars but I’m not convinced it’s true. I can’t imagine that the difference in engine design was that great that it could improve performance by that much. Even so, in the race, the cars rarely ran to maximum revs before shifting. The Saubers ran a maximum of 7,000 rpm but the drivers rarely exceeded 6,500 in the race.

[@diavolorosso69]

Holy shit- so awesome! Thanks for posting! :)

[@fabriquenacionaleofpain6359]

Group C is the best. Coolest looking race cars too alongside the turbo F1s and the Group B rally cars.

[@MikeKleinsteuber]

Who thought of the terrible opening ?

[@GroovesAndLands]

The 1990s!

[@rahkinrah1963]

Get over it...

[@SuperDirtPig]

@@rahkinrah1963 You tell that to people who love motorsport who have epilepsy, get over it as they're biting their tongue off??? Ignorant bastard.

[@klaasklapsigaar1081]

@@SuperDirtPig 99.99% of the people that watch these kind of videos dont have epilepsy, so stop whining or go outside and feed the ducks.

[@stpbasss3773]

@@SuperDirtPig yeah because you cant close your eyes or look away huh smart guy lmao. I get motion sickness from shit like this so you know what I did, I looked away for a bit I know crazy huh.

[@bradhardy100]

That C11 is the best car sound I've ever heard

[@rocketpunch12210]

Awesome video. Thanks for posting!

[@horizonandsky8989]

This Racecars are Masterpiece!!!!and the Music!!!!!!

[@VACATETHE48]

I believe you'll find it to be Peugeot 905 Evo1B and Class C2.

[@pinkzepp360]

Did Group C have any form of traction control or driver aides?

[@thethirdman225]

No.

[@gturner38]

1000 hp only meant something in qualifying. During the race, they were running to a fuel number. As for Group C vs. LMP1, Group C would be faster in a straight line, especially in qualifying, but they wouldn't have a hope of keeping up through the corners.

[@thethirdman225]

Nobody ran 1,000 hp in qualifying.

[@Chris1973K]

Sehr geil Frank. Wie immer sehr gut Arbeit. Bin mall gespant was du Le Mans mit bringst.

[@Siquemar1]

Great cars ! Group C is the best ! 😊👏👏👏👏👏

[@ricardomachado8525]

classification?

[@SmallBlogV8]

What a move at the end!

[@douni90]

the last group c was in 1992 my dear ;)

[@RedPetrol76]

The consumption was limited to 600 litres per 1000 kilometres. But they abandoned fuel amount limits when they moved to 3.5L era.

[@KuervoCharrua]

who let the monsters out ???? what a vid !! thanks !!

[@Stratahoovius]

It's sad that the Aston Martin AMR1 never comes out for these events. That car sounds GOOD!

[@ENZEEVIDS]

well done at 2nd but shown the way till 23:49 wherein got a great line out of the corner and opportunistically capitalized

[@meteormedia7021]

All these wanna-be racing instructors in the comment section... Never driven such a scary monster of a car (with 700hp to the rear wheels from only 2,9 liters and huge turbo-lag while only weighing 700kg) themselves but wanna big-talk in the comments. Such a shame.

[@weallfollowmanutd]

I was about to comment on just how good a driver this guy is, then read some of the 'experts' comments on here. Really is embarrassing. Apart from that, I can't believe how much these guys are pushing these cars. Incredible.

[@YPO6]

I kind of like those arm chair expert mr. know it all besserwisser comments

[@ElNinoDeOro1925]

I saw that orange porsche racing at the SWPC 1989 in that year Sauber C9 won the championship and the famous circuit de la sarthe.

[@st939]

😳😳Fantastic.

[@ZuhlJin]

Suspension, Brakes, Aerodynamics...need more? There's more about prototypes etc. than just raw power.

[@thethirdman225]

Thank god someone said it.

[@GroovesAndLands]

Holy crap, the 962 had an H-pattern shifter! Never woulda guess that. I assumed they all had sequentials by then!

[@thethirdman225]

The C9 and C11 had H pattern too.

[@danb.3397]

They are beautiful and iconic but I can't imagine driving any one of them at LeMans for 24 hours ! My fillings would all be loose !

[@ValentinRL]

super vidéo ! avec de beaux engins ! bravo !!!

[@kramer5772]

the mid to late 80's are a fantastic era of motorsport, back then F1 engines are a complete monster, we had The Group B rally, WTCC is just epic and the Group C prototype cars. nowdays we only have a bunch of turbo powered cars with V6 hybrids and an electric motor, Fuck ECO MENTALIST

[@bartz2433]

You know that Group B rally cars were turbocharged, right? Also Porsche used turbocharged engines in their Group C cars.

[@kramer5772]

the 80's is the Turbo era mate... Almost everything is turbocharged back then.

[@bartz2433]

Turbo era has it's second life now. Like in 80's everything is turbocharged. Only downside of nowadays turbo era is that engines have too small capacity.

[@kramer5772]

that's exactly what i meant

[@someyoungguyjohnson7239]

HardcoreLiberal Group B cars, except the Metro 6R4 and maybe one other, were TURBOCHARGED. Group C cars adhered to an FIA efficiency formula, especially at LeMans. It was built in 1980/81, in the shadow of the Mid East fuel crisis. It was meant to be (relatively) GOOD ON GAS. At the time Reporters and "enthusiasts" like yourself decried them as 'boring" and "soulless". Ha ha, how things change. By the way, the sixties and early seventies was even better. Targa Florio anyone? ECOnomy is very relevant to racing, even going way back to its inception, look at how hard Ferdinand Porsche tried to make the Mercedes Benz racers more efficient on gas, back in the 20's 30's? Race cars race on our CO2 filled EARTH, not some abstract fuckin' place with no environment. YOU are a 'mentalist" and YOU are talking out yer ass, libby. Keep draggin' your knuckles.

[@blackbeltmax851]

if the mazda 787B was there it would have been extra awesome!

[@danb.3397]

That car used to break my eardrums as it went by !

[@thethirdman225]

The 787B in Charge/Renown markings was a beautiful car but it was otherwise, nothing special. I wish I could say it was because I have always liked it. It's still probably the best looking car from that era, IMHO. I have always liked the idea of a rotary because I think the formula is strengthened by variety. Winning the Le Mans 24Hrs in 1991 was a remarkable achievement and as everyone knows, they were the first - and for over a quarter of a century - the only Japanese manufacturer to do so. In a race like this, in this company, I doubt very much it could have kept up. I'd have liked to see a 7.0 litre Jaguar XJR-9 though.

[@GiampieroConsoli]

Grande.....great Regout.....

[@Ronplucksstrings]

Ein tolles video...man kann den Fahrstyl gut beobachten...und ohne unnuetzlichem Kommentar ist noch so besser...da hat der Mercedes Fahrer aber wirklich nicht aufgepasst und ist hinter dem langsamen haengen geblieben...ich haette ihm die Tuer besser geschlossen....danke fuers posting, und Gruesse aus Connecticut!

[@Crius100]

die hatten damals immer mehrere autos am start z.b LeMans 1989 gelb rot weiss zum unterscheiden der autos, weil sie sonst nur silber hatten so konnte man immer schon sehen um welches auto es sich handelte

[@drumminham]

I'm no expert, just a fan. I would say that probably the biggest advantage is aerodynamics and Tires. Those 2 technologies have moved the game to a whole other dimension since Group C. The other advantage is dual clutch transmissions. If my research is correct and they [WEC/P1] are much faster, I would say those 3 things are the reason why they can overcome a significant power to weight disadvantage.

[@douni90]

I REALLY WANT BACK TO THE 90´s!

[@Crius100]

and the sauber c9 drove the 1989 le mans with 800hp and they were big 5l V8 engines, they were the fastest cars at that time

[@aerodynamic1440]

962 is years older then the C9 and yet it is still the fastest car. #1 is 962 with an average speed of 251 kmh #2 is 917 average speed 250 kmh and #3 is C9 average speed of 249 kmh. Check it out. C9 and C11 is just overrated for the monstrous engine sound.

[@thethirdman225]

In race trim the C9 was never much more than 730hp. Group C was not an unlimited formula. It was a fuel allocation formula.

[@thethirdman225]

@@aerodynamic1440 No point in that comparison. The 917 never raced on the Porsche Curves. The White House stretch was much faster and only ended at the Ford Chicane. The track was longer and twistier in the 1980s than it was in 1971.

[@ronaldduthweiler1903]

Almost passed because of opening bs, but in car video was fabulous, almost like driving on track again.

[@gturner38]

The regs don't require them to be ugly. The windtunnel does. Designers have increased their understanding of how to effectively move air around the car, just as F1 designers have, and it's led to more complicated designs.

[@cristinagiongo]

Great to watch.

[@ROSMEN1982]

When the races were amazing.

[@OhItsThat]

I love every Group C/GTP car ever made. I don’t think there’s one I find ugly or not entertaining. But my favorites are the GTP Jaguar XJR-9 Castrol livery, Lancia C2 and the Chevrolet Intrepid GTP.

[@AmericasChoice]

XJR-9 and any of the TWR/Group 44 Group C Jaguars for me!

[@Broncofivepointslow]

This was awesome

[@geraldfordman7474]

Porsche!: The ultimate's ULTIMATE racing machine!

[@m15aq]

23:47 is simply beautiful!

[@SVPSkins]

so thats why it sounds so amazing.

[@ajroboberts]

My heart jumped at 24:50. That was pretty close there.

[@drumminham]

Hmmm, from what I can tell, the Toyota and Audi from WEC are almost 30 seconds a lap quicker. Someone double check that, Please. But from what I can dig up, the Group C cars would get annihilated by current P1 WEC cars.

[@xeno5720]

The c9 has got the legs wow!

[@tonychavez2083]

unbelievable how that Mercedes M119 motor pulls away every time! One of the best motorsports cars of all time...

[@thethirdman225]

And yet the 962 won, which it usually did.

[@tonychavez2083]

@@thethirdman225 956 and later 962 were Motorsports legends no doubt. Norbert Singer masterpieces

[@mo0085]

onboard at 07:38, scary overtake at 23:50. very nice vid....

[@aerodynamic1440]

Oh man that a the coolest overtake I seen. The driver is insane.

[@DanielReding]

6:57 what in the world?

[@Grumpy_old_Boot]

The sound at 2:00 sounds like one of the pod racers in the starwards movie. :D

[@SupercarsGT]

The Group C was the best group in Le Mans,what a engines and what a designs,it´s a shame dissapear,someone can say me the real reason for his disappearance?.Great movie :D

[@BrettMayaAllisonTory]

Once more, FIA changed the rules to restrict performance of group C cars that were winners of the time : Porschemercedes Jaguar and Aston to the benefit of Peugeot who were using small F1 3,5 liter engine. We must remember FIA did the same in 1968 and 1972 when they banned big engines that were winning at that time FordFerrari Chaparral and Porsche so that Matra using small 3 liters engine could finally win Le Mans. French Politics making the rules in sport Car Racing.