Growing Phenomena of Evangelical Deconstruction | Stan Mitchell

[@cynthialeyba6430]

You guys are so provocative . I’m hanging on to every word. Stan, you are an outstanding communicator of thoughts, hearts, and spirits. God bless you both.

[@davidmosesperez]

Awww... that is so kind of you to say. Much appreciated.

[@indianlakeohio1050]

I left the religion after fifty years. The freedom of being unchained from religion is almost indescribable.

[@davidmosesperez]

Glad you found freedom.

[@randyorr9443]

Thank you so much for your honest thoughtful discussion. Just beautiful!! I am 64 years old and have been "backsliding" out of Christianity over the last 50+ years. I grew up in a moderate Methodist church. Most of my uncles, cousins, and nephews, are all preachers. I personally have evolved from a fairly conservative traditional born again Christian through very liberal Methodist idology, through ALL levels of spirituality to now a wide open minded Carlton Pearson type Humanist Unitarian. I am sort of a spiritual Atheist now. I am so proud of myself, my wife, and both my children for basically traveling with me on my/our journey. I feel like I am finally free to be simply what I am. As Soren Kierkegaard said: "Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced" It is just a shame that there are giant portions of my extended family that thinks that Donald Trump has been sent and ordained by God Almighty. May God bless both of you well spoken wonderful humans. Peace

[@davidmosesperez]

Randy - thanks so much for these honest thoughts. Cheers to you and your close fam is you move forward on your journey.

[@jeffbarrett411]

Modern Christianity is not true Christianity, Jesus saved you out of it. He is for real but he is orbited by garbage. The true church is veiled.

[@robertheintze9413]

When one is already in a religious cult, it's easy to transition into a political cult....which is the MAGA movement. "Ye shall know them by their fruits"....--Jesus Christ-- Then how do you explain the fact that two thirds of all evangelicals have been deceived by this convicted con man, who is anything BUT a Christian?

[@weirdwilliam8500]

I like how you identified that the core of Christianity is fear. It’s emotional abuse. And people see this and rightly opt out.

[@davidmosesperez]

thanks for the comments and watching.

[@michaelm5601]

Thank you both so much for being open to God’s Spirit to help this hurting society to find the light is Gods Love… I am gleaming with joy.

[@davidmosesperez]

thank you Michael for you kind comments. and thanks for watching.

[@peraspera934]

Thank you for sharing this perspective. Pursuing truth through the pressures of indoctrination and tribalism is not an easy path.

[@RichardCosci]

Absolutely heart expanding conversation! What a powerful life story Stan. I’m happy for you. David, I think I understand what you mean by “duped”. It’s like, “I fell for this paradigm hook, line and sinker “, and then it turned out to be not really true, or less than true. I had the same experience. I think youth has a lot to do with it. As we grow, we look back and see. Yet, it was part of the journey. Thanks!

[@benfir8920]

I left Christianity this year. I never thought i would. Before, so many friends leaving church i wondered what’s wrong with them?

[@robertheintze9413]

As a 60 something old man, I haven't abandoned Christianity, but I will never set foot inside of an evangelical or charismatic church again. We have been witnessing in real time the deception and brainwashing by the MAGA cult, of which two thirds of all evangelicals have fallen for. It's mind control

[@Nazarene_Judaism]

come to Nazarene judaism

[@PhilosophyDose2]

I grew up in Tennessee. I will never forget the time I was sitting out on my grandmas front porch with her and I had the audacity to question Billy Graham, she gave a go to hell look. It doesn't feel great to get a go to hell look from your own grandma 😢 The cult of Billy Graham is a strong one.

[@drewjones4987]

Thank you, Stan and David! I go to Spero Dei and I just loved watching this! I'm so thankful for the both of you and how you're blazing the trail for those of us who are deconstructing. It gives me hope that I can continue to have faith and trust in God and continue to minister as a gay Christian minister to the LGBTQIA community. Lots of love to both of you!

[@davidmosesperez]

you are welcome drew. so glad it meant something to you.

[@robertheintze9413]

I'm heterosexual but I currently attend a reconciliated progressive church. Most evangelicals and "so called" patriots, blame the moral decline of America on social progress and cultural diversity. That somehow, society was better off prior to the civil rights movement, when white men held all of the power in our business and educational institutions. They need to stop opposing progress, because it's going to happen whether they want it to, or not. They need to stop living in the biblical past....2,000 years ago!

[@bobridley]

Thank you both for this discussion. ❤

[@davidmosesperez]

Thank YOU for tuning-in to watch.

[@terryallen6688]

You've got it, a deeper KNOWING. Not unrelenting certainty or infallible theological rhetoric. But a deep down realization of Divine presence in an Apophatic mystery that alludes any certain or literal understanding. Amen Brother.

[@davidmosesperez]

thanks for the informed points Terry

[@Paul-c3s2y]

Most people are worshipping their own projections, which means they are worshipping themselves. It is all about THEM. And that “them” is an illusion, an abstraction put together by thought(memory). There is really no autonomous entity inside the brain-body called Dave and Stan,giving the illusion that there really two separate entities having a conversation getting somewhere. But the conversation is not getting anywhere and doesn’t need to get anywhere because WHOLENESS is BEING the conversation! There is only completeness. ALREADY.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Social media especially You Tube is providing religious counter arguments that were hard to find in the past. The recognition of contradictions and inconsistencies in sacred Bible scripture encouraged by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and lately Ken Humphries channel "Jesus Never Existed" filled the gaps left by my Catholic indoctrination. As an atheist I can move much faster in my search for new knowledge that was blocked for years by threats of eternal damnation from the Catholic Church.

[@MarthaEllen88]

40 mins in and having to pause but am just so grateful for this video and finding gour channel. Since finding out more about the bible from proper bible scholars and researchers, it is hard feelin duped. There is so much evidence now of the real story behind the bible. It is a very human book. Whyc did i take it all so seriously as a child amf young person? I now realise my 'ordinary' church was basically a cult. There is so much amger and grief and frustration. With myself, what has happened for generations, with institutions.. but yes, they were people doing the best they could woth what they had. I have been lucky to see the light. But o, so hard

[@davidmosesperez]

MarthaEllen - thanks so much for you honest and transparent comment. I know EXACTLY how you feel. Now we move forward, righ?

[@kjmav10135]

The apologists totally don’t get that we all have access to modern Biblical scholarship now-on KZbin, on the New York Times Bestseller List. This sort of deconstruction happened in England in the 1800s. Oxford had an identity crisis because they were so devoted to Anglican theologies of the times, and the historical-critical thinking that was coming over from Tubingen in Germany was a bridge too far. There was a MASS deconstruction in England at the time. Read God’s Funeral-the poem by Thomas Hardy, or the book by A.N. Wilson. This is the story of how England became nominally religious. Now it’s happening here. The Enlightenment is FINALLY arriving on American Shores, helped along by the well-publicized instances of gross evangelical corruption, immorality, and hypocrisy.

[@eznosnopes5276]

Sounds fascinating. There is so much interesting history.

[@glowheat4469]

True. For example, like what happened in Salem, MA.

[@MrUdaman4]

I found it amusing when Stan said, “am I good enough, fast enough, smart enough…” while talking to a guy that could be Al Frankin’s twin, aka Stuart Smalley.

[@quietoftheland]

I have deconstructed to become a Quaker, and you explain how I feel so well. Thank you.

[@kimsteinke713]

Thank you Stan God bless you 🙏🏳️‍🌈 that number 25 makes me very sad but we're doing everything we can. 🙏❤️

[@rebeccacampbell585]

I have caught the last half hour of this live. I'm excited to go back and see the first half or whatever I missed. This is inspiring and puts into words a lot of what I have thought and felt. I guess I have been deconstructing? That's a new word to me. I can very much relate to if I say what is in my heart that everyone will be mad at me. I also do feel like faith or religion or Christianity is on the edge of evolving for a new millennia.

[@rebeccacampbell585]

I am not from an evangelical background at all, I was actually raised Mormon. This really applies to me though which is pretty cool.

[@rolandwatts3218]

@@rebeccacampbell585 There are some good deconstruction channels out there on YT. One, run by an ex Mormon lass, is titled "Cults to Consciousness". Another good one is "Preacher Boys". And there is "Harmonic Atheist". Two good channels exploring Christianity in total are "Mythvision Podcast" and "Centre Place". I think the latter is run by a Christian but the guy is really good. ^^ These channel owners are all ex Mormon, ex Evangelical, ex Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, and in the latter case, still a Christian. The productions are high quality. Other good channels are "I was a teenage fundamentalist" and "Feet of Clay". All of the above will often point you to even more channels.

[@larrys9879]

I define “Deconstruction” as examining religion through the lens of logic, reason, validated history, and science rather than through the lens of “faith” that is based on “beliefs”. That leads rational people to the obvious conclusion that all religions, and their beliefs, are manmade.

[@davidmosesperez]

thanks for these thoughts. much appreciated.

[@DeweyChapa]

Brother, Peace be still. Let me tell you story. I was born Pentecost / Non-Denominational. Their word and no one elses was the true word of God. Like your church we werent supposed too mix with other people and so that meant no sports, no afterschool clubs, later even education was seen as a source of potentially losing your soul. couple that with Y2K and college was seen as a waste of time. I knew I was different when I was 5yrs old when I kissed my best friends cheek in the school yard and the world stood still for what seemed an enternity. I slowly realized that what they were preaching from the pulpit was the thing I feared the most. No one prayed harder than I for God to change me. The ernest prayers of a child were not answered till one day, I was betrayed. NO, I was not found out. During a prayer service someone came up to me to tell me they had a word from God. That I need to stop cheating with my best friend (who is a girl) so that God could bless the relationship of me and my girl friend at the time. IF THEY ONLY KNEW WHAT MY LIFE LONG PRAYER ACTUALLY WAS! That is why I left the church. Either God didn't exist, or these people were lying that they had the final word from God, Or God existed and created me just to destroy me. Months later after much anguish I settle on my faith now. Went back to God and the basics of Christs Love and undeserving generous gift. I don't debate what is sin or where that line lies. I don't debate on if salvation can be lost. I don't care if someone else believe whether or not Jesus is the only way. Those questions are not for me to answer for someone else. They are for me to answer for myself and for the person walking towards God to answer for themselves. I'm not responsible for there salvation. In my view Jesus paid to ultimate price to show us we couldn't do it for ourselves why do we then think we can force someone else into heaven with our version of doctrine. How do you get to heaven? Grab Jesus's hand and start walking right from where your standing. Its YOUR walk with him. Nothing can rip me away from HIM who gave everything so I can live. And now I say in my best Liam Neeson voice to those that might want to comment, "Do you dare stand between me and the thrown of Heaven, Do find yourself holy enought to stand between me and my Savior!"

[@DeweyChapa]

I just don't believe any one denomination has the whole truth. They may have some parts of it but not one, has it all. I also speak multiple languages and understand translating a script poem or story is more an art than science and can be corrupt in its translation. Everyone reads and interprets the word of God through there conscience and the Holy Spirit. There is only one way, Jesus, because everyone starts from where they are standing and their journey is different from mine. The Holy Spirit can be our only Guide, Jesus can be our only light and Papa can be our only Love. Amen.

[@robertramsay5963]

You two seem to be on the same tack as Dr. TImothy Jennings of Come and Reason Ministries. I think God is leading you all into a new spiritual laneway. He has written several books that explain this new theology, like The God Shaped Heart. Have you guys written anything I can get my teeth into?

[@davidmosesperez]

THX for the recommendation Robert.

[@daydreamerz]

Eternal torment is a lie from the devil. Hellfire will destroy the wicked, but interpreting it as infinite torture for finite sins is antithesis to a loving God. It is a scare tactic from the pulpit to control behavior and make us serve God out of fear instead of love.

[@jeffbarrett411]

Exactly like the unbeliever who ignores Jesua, we are called to trust in the invisible and ignore the world. Lets forget Egypt and move on along The Way. Read the Word to see God and don't look back. Faith hears the voice of Jesus, Faith knows. But that fire can go out.

[@alexinaboxx]

If the new Jerusalem were as big as indicated in the Bible, its volume might contain enough habitable living space for 1000s of Earths.

[@MusicalRaichu]

"Deconstruction" is what the Israelites had to do in Babylon and what Paul was faced with when he encountered the risen Christ.

[@downenout8705]

Paul is described as having a visionary experience no different than that described by countless people of different faiths over thousands of years, and the fact that it is written in a book doesn't defacto make it true. I have never heard the god commanded slaughter of A and B described as "deconstruction", I would call it "depravity", but what do I know I'm just a Psalm fourteen atheist. A babies B unborn

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@downenout8705 That's not the point I'm making. So-called "deconstruction" is a commonly occurring process that has naturalistic explanation. The Israelites arrogantly thought they were invulnerable because of their deity, but when Jerusalem fell, they experienced their religion failing them. So they had to completely rethink it. That's where Judaism came from. Paul believed that tradition and opposed this new sect. But when he believed he had an encounter with its allegedly dead teacher, his religion failed hiim. He had to completely rethink it. That's where Christianity came from. Christian tradition devolved into a form that gave clergy enormous power which led to abuses. This forced Luther to rethink it when it didn't work for him. Hence the Reformation. Today, a common form of protestantism has similarly devolved into a tradition that when interrogated makes no logical sense and also leads to abuses of power, thus failing many people. Thus they are forced to rethink it. Hence the modern trendy term, "deconstruction" which I don't particularly like. It's what scientists do for a living, yet you don't say they're deconstructing.

[@downenout8705]

​@@MusicalRaichuThanks for the clarification.

[@Nazarene_Judaism]

@@MusicalRaichu NO

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@Nazarene_Judaism Nitrous oxide!?!?

[@bw2442]

Wait till you find out that the word “ALL” really means all. And the true meaning that Jesus is the savior of the world especially them that beleive.

[@weirdwilliam8500]

“I love all my children, especially the ones I don’t torture in my basement or afflict with bone cancer.”

[@Thewatchtowers]

With out the baptism of the Holly Spirit... One would look at the "Church" and not be the "Church".

[@downenout8705]

That's the difference between being partially indoctrinated and fully indoctrinated.

[@vls3771]

If anyone believes speaking in a cartoon language (Tounges) Is secret messages to a creator ... They will swallow just about anything that is complete nonscence ...sheep and parrot copying in a group of people Church is no more than a golf club these days a social copy cat get together except weider.....

[@americaneskielover]

Wow, don't know how I fell into this video. Wish I could remove myself as a viewer of it. smh

[@vigilance6806]

And yet here you are leaving a comment instead.

[@americaneskielover]

@@vigilance6806 Yes, free speech is a wonderful thing.

[@stevegriffin3036]

@@americaneskielover Free speech is indeed wonderful. That being said, much that is freely said is anything but wonderful. Know what I mean? ;)

[@americaneskielover]

@@vigilance6806 Yep, now hear me out, it's called disagreeing. And I said a link led me here, and since I am here and (looking around) yep, still a free country, I'm going to disagree. And I don't even have to ask your permission. How about that??

[@americaneskielover]

@@stevegriffin3036 Yes, I do know what you mean but I am from Canada where we have limited speech, trust me, America's free speech is better.

[@Tuck943]

Deconstructing or shedding the paganism of the penal part of PSA does not equate or require the embracing of the religion of wokism (another form of embracing paganism).

[@CTomCooper]

Wokism really is abhorrent, for its own reasons. It’s a zealous religion with secular overtones, embraced by today’s political wrung of rulers. Unitarianism and Christian universalism I really see as two separate things despite the labels sharing similarities, and sharing the same opinion on rejecting ECT. My beliefs are christian universalist, but I don’t agree with the hellfire doctrine or literalism of the evangelical bent in christianity today that’s focused on latin translation over greek. They err by going too far in one direction, and are amiss as to why people leave the evangelical belt and why they can’t maintain a lasting sense of unity or solidarity spanning across generations.

[@MrUdaman4]

You began by saying apologist look at the deconstruction movement and blame it on church trauma, clergy abuse, narcissistic pastors, etc.…some circumstance that has pushed someone away from the church. You went on to say “they never turn it on their own theology… because a lot of the theological constructs we call the ‘truth’ or historic orthodoxy, is no longer making sense.” Then, both of you went on for over 30 minutes describing the “church trauma” that lead you to your own deconstruction. That’s not deconstruction. Thats straight out giving up, quitting, divorcing your faith in the face of adversity because the questions became too hard for your academic brain to rationalize. You believe you know scripture but fail to recall that the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God rendering the prefacing phrase, “I think” meaningless. What I’m hearing is: you used to have a faith of some kind and at least some of the answers, but you threw out the book that gave you some of the answers because 1. it didn’t have ALL the answers and 2. you’ve classified it as mythology (yet later claim it is sacred). Now you have no faith and no answers and just a book of “good stories” you occasionally like to reference in order to make a point and you’re ok with that because it infers no accountability. Speaking of accountability, I’d love to know where you get the idea everyone is going to heaven. If you believe this to be true, I need to hear your case in defense of despots like Hitler (who by the way, believed he was doing the world a favor), an unrepentant murderer or child molester (that also believes himself to have been born that way). If this is your idea of what heaven will be like, I certainly don’t want to go to your heaven. Stan spent time talking about inclusivity which is obviously something near and dear to him being involved with the LBGQT community. He used examples of Jesus being criticized for spending time with tax collectors and sinners, stressing the fact that Jesus never mentioned or condemned them for their sins. What he failed to point out is the many examples of the transformation experienced by the same people after encountering Christ. Most of them were overwhelmed with the desire to change their lives and either follow Jesus or go and tell everyone they knew about Him and what He had done; that is, except one in particular, a rich young man who asked Christ what he must do to get to heaven. When Jesus told him, he replied that he had kept all the commandments. Jesus then made one more stipulation telling the man to sell everything he had and give the money to the poor. As the story goes, the man went away sad because he had much. Jesus then tells his disciples it is difficult for someone who loves possessions to go to heaven. There are stipulations to having a relationship with Christ/God and getting to heaven. And if you’re going to use stories and examples from the Bible, you cannot pick and choose which ones without invalidating all of them. The Bible is one story of which Stan said is the story of man. No. It’s the story of God, His power and grace and yes, even His wrath. When telling the story of Adam and Eve, Stan stopped short of the part where God gives them their sentence for breaking His one command which then became the sentence for all of humanity. Here’s another story from your book of “mythology” that you may have forgotten: ”When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.” Matthew‬ ‭12‬:‭43‬-‭45‬ ‭ And another: ”It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.“ ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭ and: ”Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist-denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.“ ‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬-‭23

[@deadfdr]

Get a grip. Jesus is forever. Love Reigns. Yahweh was a fabrication. My faith is stronger than ever even though only 20% of the Bible is trustworthy as a life transforming foundation.

[@stevenbatke2475]

Curious how you trust the minority of the bible, but not the majority? Not that I’m judging, I gave up on all of it. Just curious.

[@deadfdr]

@@stevenbatke2475 Love is an unstoppable force that always yields a great return. Pretty simple.

[@stevenbatke2475]

@@deadfdr I can’t argue with that. If that works for you, then great.

[@deadfdr]

@@stevenbatke2475 as well as from any source based on Love: Sufi, Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist etc

[@finn1068]

So, I get confused by the cherry-picking done by most evangelicals. I mean the Bible is fairly clear about cutting the hair around your ears, eating shellfish and mixing fabrics, all of which are sins, and all sins are equal, so how exactly do they justify preaching against homosexuality but never any of the sins they commit every day? When the disciples complained about Mary, didn't Jesus say he was going to make her into a man?? Sounds pretty Trans friendly to me!

[@sandorski56]

Depends on how one views the Bible. Some believe those laws are given by God and eternal, some don't. They certainly were not written in stone and unchangeable, given that one of the early Church decisions was to ignore some of those laws.

[@NathanielDowell]

The Gospel of Thomas isn't usually included in the Bible, so that would explain why no pastors would reference the story about Jesus making Mary into a man. As for the other stuff, verses in the New Testament are interpreted as invalidating a lot of Old Testament laws. At the end of the day, I think there's more cultural assumption built into Biblical interpretation than most evangelicals can see. The people who start to see and questions those assumptions start deconstructing, looking for a more logical foundation that actually fits with what we've learned over the last 200 years.