Excellent work by Andrew Jones again and a great improvement by Danny. Is that 3 videos this wee? What a great week it's been.
@ThinkingBetter2 ай бұрын
Just talked to Andrew Jones a couple of hours ago here in Costs Mesa. Small world. I like his design views.
@rhalfik2 ай бұрын
It's not really settled if all the changes he did are an improvement. The reduction of the midrange may be a good decision, but if the high impedance was from a series notch then Danny may have increased distortion by removing it. Notice that Danny never proves that he does proper blind tests of his modifications. You only trust him because he's a youtuber.
@stephenyoud61252 ай бұрын
@@rhalfik I trust him because of his experience not because he’s a KZbinr that’s no qualification at all
@mcgovernjimmy2 ай бұрын
@@rhalfik I've been in his home to hear his NX-Treme speakers and he's done new crossovers for 2 different speakers I own, one of which I was present when he did the work, and the final tweak was a resistor value when listening after. What's your experience with his work, speakers, and watching him design a crossover in person? What he can do to a speaker is transformative, and they are the best speakers I've ever heard.
@brandondempsey68332 ай бұрын
I bought these Source Point 8s and my Polk Audio lsim 703 still sound much better to me. So I sent the source points back, now just waiting on TeeJay to finish the Polk xover upgrade. If he recommends it I will 100 percent buy the upgrade. I just know TeeJay will help me with the process. I just haven't done much dyi upgrades. Love what you do Danny Richie
@spacejaime2 ай бұрын
Amazing transformation on an already good design. Danny to the rescue!
@ChicagoRob22 ай бұрын
The impedance mod is a thing of beauty.
@Bradimus12 ай бұрын
Erin's audio corner has spin-o-rama data for the 8 and the 10 and he subjectively preferred the 8. Less high frequency lift, though a bit less low end extension. The latter addressed by the towers coming out. I haven't heard but would likely leave be this line of speakers.
@stevengagnon47772 ай бұрын
Pretty much my foregone conclusion the the eight is going to perform better than the ten. Too much compromise crossing over to the tweeters. I believe that the eight will a sub( a couple of subs) will just sound better in the long run
@nathanevans62772 ай бұрын
@@stevengagnon4777I couldn't agree more. The only addition I'd make would be to plug the ports. The point source's bass driver would basically become a midrange driver. A port is designed to extend low frequency output but it does so at the expense of bass quality. When using a sub extension of the main speakers is not important. I'd also stick a suitably valued capacitor between the pre and power amps to roll the bottom off a little more. This cleans up the bass even further.
@stevengagnon47772 ай бұрын
@@nathanevans6277 I believe I've stuffed all of the ports on all my speakers since I've been doing that for decades. Definitely restrict the power on the bottom end Sotheby's amplifier can have alot more head room above the sub / bass cross over. I have done that in the past too. It really makes a difference at higher volume levels. You don't have that mid bass driver struggling with poor response at the bottom end either. Currently my speakers don't see much more than one watt so I haven't done that with them yet...it's still a work in progress from the ashes of my former life.
@clarencehoover67482 ай бұрын
Very educational. Thank you, Danny.
@davep29452 ай бұрын
A long time ago when this channel starting getting traction Danny was routinely beating on Klipsch products for the poor crossover parts used. His audience loved to bash Klipsch along with him even though they had obviously never looked at the crossovers in their own speakers. At that time I told people they needed to quit pretending the parts in their favorite speakers were any better even if they paid double or triple the price. Over the years this has been shown to be true over and over not only on this channel but several others. Top quality parts cost money and people already complain about a speaker that costs even $1000 much less 3 to 5 thousand bucks. Getting the crossover design right is far more important than the parts themselves. Combine that with good drivers and solid cabinet construction and you've got a speaker the majority are happy with. At that point crossover parts quality would be little more than the cherry on top of a great speaker. The problem is by the time you get to the point that upgrading crossover parts starts to make the difference you've already got a pricey speaker on your hands. And unless you're a company like Wilson or Focal who can find buyers for their insanely priced speakers then getting enough people to pay for that last fraction of quality they likely don't know or care about is not a viable business option. You give folks as good as you can give them for a profitable but attainable price point and sell in volume. But as I've said to many an arrogant audionerd, if you think you can do better than these manufacturers you love to hate then, by all means, show us what you got. Give us the cabinets, drivers, crossovers and wiring you think should be used for the price points you always pretend manufacturers should be selling their products for. I would say I'll wait but I know they can't do it because I know what the cost of doing business actually happens to be.
@mikevalentinas67662 ай бұрын
People whining about the price 1) don’t need to buy them and 2) don’t realize that you aren’t paying for a pile of parts. You are paying for the engineering, design and experience of the designer. Mofi also needs to make a profit and factor in returns, unsold stock, etc. Their manufacturer likely has a (large) minumum order. It is a business, not a charity. Overall it seems to be a well-designed speaker with a somewhat novel baffled design that sounds good. The upgraded parts will be of interest to some but others will be happy with the way they sound. Even at this price point it will be difficult to find a commercially available loudspeaker with absolutely no compromises. But people like to whine, especially arm chair audiphiles who have never even heard the speakers in person.
@gerryb54592 ай бұрын
Agreed. Danny would have Vincent Van Gogh rummaging through the shops in Paris looking for the “best” oil paints instead of being outside actually painting.
@davidnewell3232Ай бұрын
@@gerryb5459 What are on Earth brings you here then?
@gdwlaw55492 ай бұрын
Wouldn’t it wonderful to both of them In the same room!
@sloboat552 ай бұрын
I'll say, the Sonicaps and No-rez, turned my Pedest'ale Tower speakers into instant Heirloom speakers. Excellent vid
@veroman0072 ай бұрын
still kicking myself for not getting those!
@The_Story_Channel2 ай бұрын
@@veroman007 you and me both.
@teknolojigundemi2 ай бұрын
i am suprised , expected better parts. Thank you.
@Reyfox12 ай бұрын
Well, he did say it was built to a price point.
@philipeli11922 ай бұрын
This speaker is not needing any more money thrown at it for the very small difference.I have had many Pioneer floorstanding towers from Andrews designs.Weirdly the sf 52 measure 11.0 ohms across its terminals. It had 3 5.25s one a mid the other two 250hz and down,they sold millions of these.Great job here Danny.
@timothywild99802 ай бұрын
I couldn't click on this video fast enough!
@annebokma46372 ай бұрын
I am not watching most of this channels content. But this one was indeed decided in a second 😂
@phantomplastics65822 ай бұрын
I used his Dynaudio Special 40 kits and wow, what a revelation. Bough the Magnepan 1.7 kit too but unable to install it so far.
@jimdavis52302 ай бұрын
Regarding steel parts in the signal path I recently inspected several power amplifiers with a magnet to see what components used steel. I found all the capacitors, resistors and transistors had tinned steel leads. The TO3 power output transistors not only had steel leads but also steel cases. I also inspected a valve power amplifier and found similar results. All the valve pins were steel and the output went through a transformer with a laminated iron core. Are you confused? I certainly am.
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
Sounds like a lot of areas for improvement.
@kjellrogerjgensen602 ай бұрын
Some brands are replacing steel part, among them som crasy exp. Danish speakers....
@hwr96752 ай бұрын
I prefer paper in oil amps, very smooth round next level sound.
@mattholland3152 ай бұрын
The steel claims are snake oil. Really nothing to worry about. It was proven on ASR. Can’t find the link sorry.
@HiFiWright2 ай бұрын
Steel cases on t03 are completely irrelevant and are electrically isolated from the signal. You are correct on the leads, inevitable on transistors, but as Danny said, there's definitely room for improvement then in the caps resistors etc. also, keep in mind, steel parts in a speaker matter more because you're talking about low impedance signal transfer vs high impedance like what you have in an amplifier aka current is affected because it's much greater through the speaker so apples to oranges on that point. One complaint I have with amplifiers is how many blindly choose cheap parts because they often use so many. Vishay, KOA Speer resistors etc. and even most caps can be ordered with copper leads (power supply electrolytics etc do NOT matter because that is 60hz mains we are talking about. The answer for amplifiers IMO is to get either well built tube since they generally care more about parts quality or do what I do which is make (or buy) solid state that uses short signal paths and 2 or 3 gain stages tops to preserve detail and coherence. You had an ok point, but you were pointing the finger (mostly) in the wrong direction. I don't always agree with Danny and do think he puts a bit much emphasis on the steel nuts, but he's technically correct regardless about anyone's emotional reaction to it, and even when i disagree with him I won't say he is wrong he just has a different opinion or puts more or less emphasis on something with level of importance than I would.
@nathanevans62772 ай бұрын
Another great upgrade video from Danny. It looks like Andrew Jones did a great job as usual. If he had built the crossover to the standard of the GR Research upgrade it would have doubled the price of the speaker. This makes Danny's upgrade a steal. If I owned these I would definitely plug the ports and stick a suitably valued capacitor between the pre and power amps to roll off the bottom end. I'd then hand bass duties over to a pair of decent subs. Ports are always a trade off between bass extensions and bass articulation. Plugging the ports would clean up the mid-bass no end. Let the subs do the heavy lifting.
@kjellrogerjgensen602 ай бұрын
Not shure if plugging the ports would be a good idea, a closed box might increase the cone travel. The advantage of port is that the air in it also act as a "anti resonator" and keeps the cone travel down, same with passive radiator. Yes the extra bass level do come from the air, (or a passive r.) but the main sp.element will be a better "horn" for the tweeter with less cone travel. A crossover between pre out, and main in, or in the separate subbs are the most important point of course. But you will get there😊
@nathanevans62772 ай бұрын
@@kjellrogerjgensen60 All very true. The addition of a capacitor between the pre and power amps will add an extra 6dB per octave roll off. This will limit cone movement below where the speaker is naturally rolling off.
@kjellrogerjgensen602 ай бұрын
@@nathanevans6277My sub with built in amp. have variable low and hipas crossovers so i can continue to main in on the amp for the sidesystems. I think that is the normal solution in active subs, and also sub amps you can get to for DIY.
@simplereef48542 ай бұрын
I feel sorry for you if you think plugging one port will improve anything. In fact, it will do the opposite of what you think. That double ports is a very careful and deliberate design, altering it will only make it worse.
@nathanevans62772 ай бұрын
@@simplereef4854 I feel sorry for you that you know so little about speaker design if that is what you really think. I was suggesting plugging all ports, not just one if there are multiple ports. Plugging a single in a twin port design will increase the tuning frequency and would likely induce chuffing. So I agree, not likely to be good. I was not suggesting plugging the ports in isolation. I was suggesting to only do so when a subwoofer is added to the system. Plugging all ports will change the speaker from being ported to being an acoustic suspension. For the same driver in the same size cabinet an acoustic suspension design will have a lower Q than when ported. This is why ported speakers are generally larger with the same driver. Lowering the Q will result in a cleaner tighter bottom end but with less weight. As I was suggesting handing bass duties over to a subwoofer this is not an issue. Plugging the ports and sticking a suitably valued capacitor between the pre and power amps will result in a cleaner more resolving midbass and midrange.
@benjamink.62865 күн бұрын
Again a nice one - thanks Danny! Maybe you could take a look at the new Epos models eg. the EPOS ES 14n which is designed by Karl Heinz Fink (a well known and deemed developer - at least in Europe). All tests praise the speakers to the skies. Another interesting speaker would be from the italian mafunfacturer "Rosso Fiorentino" - like the "ELBA 2" often described as a real secret.
@lexicon6122 ай бұрын
Can't believe you pulled out another 25.00 crossover out of another not cheap speaker. Keep remembering that 4k Revel bookshelf you exposed awhile back. Thanks' again for clearing up all the undue hype behind this speaker. I can guarantee his crossover's in his living room system are not those 25.00 ones. That is what sucks about this. Your the best Danny TY.
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
@@bunjidogg That is true.
@lexicon6122 ай бұрын
@@bunjidogg Those were some amazing reviews of those 25.00 crossovers. That tells me all I need to know about so called expert reviewer's. We had to put some cheap shit in them to be competitive in the speaker market doesn't fly with me and frankly I'm surprised it does with you. With all due respect. Offer crossover options then. problem solved.
@Artcore1032 ай бұрын
@@lexicon612 or maybe it tells you that the whole "parts quality" thing is marginal at best in any improvements it can bring. simple electric circuits, not magic. the parts shape the frequency response curve, they don't magically make your sine waves sound better.
@AudiS4orce12 ай бұрын
Dude, he’s adding $680 to cost of the speaker. In any company, you need to triple the cost to recover it. So that alone adds $2K to the cost of the speaker.
@rikardekvall34332 ай бұрын
@@Artcore103if you can’t hear it, why comment? Better parts do matter, same in food.
@BostonMike682 ай бұрын
It must sound so much better with the upgrade parts on the crossover, it's to bad people have to pay so much money and still get a sub par product. I watched an interview with Andrew Jones and he said he had to limit the x max on the woofer because it was messing with the tweeter response to much. So he couldn't get as much bass and that's why he originally went to the 10" woofer. But I wouldn't expect it to give you the same bass as a regular quality woofer with more x- max . There's always a compromise. But I like the baffle, I am already planning a baffle shape like that on my next speaker cabinet.
@carlitomelon46102 ай бұрын
After watching quite a few of these show&tell videos, it looks like cheesy xover parts ARE "par for the course" even for high end speakers 🙄
@n.lyndley.98892 ай бұрын
To Too Two Three, different words.
@BostonMike682 ай бұрын
@@n.lyndley.9889 thanks mom
@carlitomelon46102 ай бұрын
@@n.lyndley.9889 Yeah I was also tempted to be the grammar police. Nice job. Stay tuned. KZbin comments will be a full time job!
@davidnewell3232Ай бұрын
@@carlitomelon4610 One exception in recent years was the Dynaudio Heritage Classic. They built the crossover from Mundorf components. They are similar to the components Danny uses. Dynaudio normally just makes drivers. When they decided to release a speaker to feature their best drivers, they built a crossover the Danny would have. The bookshelf speakers were $7000 US a pair. Dynaudio were so exited about showing off the crossover, that you can see every component on it. The speakers can be built from scratch for less than $1500, even if you buy the components individually at online retail.
@thomosburn87402 ай бұрын
This video was really something - and I already loved the SourcePoint 8 as it was. Do or can you offer an assembled replacement crossover/board so that "assembly challenged" people such as myself will have a completed circuit that can just be attached to the drivers with the barest minimum of soldering?
@lexicon6122 ай бұрын
I'm not great with a soldering iron. My local electronics repair shop agreed to do all the soldering I needed for 50 bucks. A rewire & Tube Connector's mod. EPOS Epic 2's...Sadly, I learned the EPOS crossover's were the same 25.00 ones in this video. To say they all do it is an understatement. The Epic 2's were msrp 800 pair. 25.00 crossover's. They do sound better but the real bottleneck is the crossover itself. When I'm ready to part with them it will be a kit from Danny to replace them. Me too...couple of speaker leads is all I'm capable of. Danny's reasonable. Completed crossover is probably doable with an up charge. Otherwise do a local repair shop. Take care.
@matthewhilty42092 ай бұрын
I thought the point of the speaker was that it sounded fun and not really accurate. I did notice when demoing these that they did not have much "sparkle". I am glad there is a fix for this and improving the impedance curve making it synergise with more amps.
@davidnewell3232Ай бұрын
Shouldn't the music bring the fun and then the speaker accurately relate that fun?
@chrisdraper19762 ай бұрын
Great video as always. Got to get my butt in gear and send my Monitor Audio Bronze 100 and see what they need
@carlitomelon46102 ай бұрын
The 888 upgrade should be interesting.... That impedance curve was scary! Some amp owners might just want the "impedance trap" as a kit....
@ChicagoRob22 ай бұрын
You would think that Jones would have seen that in his testing and fixed it.
@BarryBianculli2 ай бұрын
I had the opportunity to take a brief look inside the Source Point 10. The crossover looked very similar to the 8’s parts-wise.
@einarbk8852 ай бұрын
the baffle makes it look huge even with just the 8"
@sidesup82862 ай бұрын
It's good that we have such a consistently good speaker designer as Andrew Jones. Has he ever put out a mediocre speaker? They all seem to be good. I am also a fan of Michael Kelly who is the owner and designer of Aerial Acoustics. His model 10 from the 1990s when the company was new, is still considered by some as among the best speakers of all time. What good parts quality crossovers they used.It's first review was in a great short lived audio review magazine called simply, FI. The magazines owner/editor/reviewer was another Michael K. Michael Kay to be exact. In around the 4th or 5th issue Michael Kay admitted that he had serious hearing loss in one ear, but he had other reviewers confirm or non-confirm his impressions. I really miss that magazine. They sent out free issues of their new magazine for many months, whose names & addresses they must have gotten from buying a mailing list from somewhere. Maybe another magazine. I enjoy the videos. Maybe some day Danny will be flabbergasted at how good the parts are in something.
@MARVELOUDIO2 ай бұрын
Would be interesting to see on a Scope what influence IRON has over current on a signal! And how much it changes when a static magnetic flux is applied , up to saturation of the iron!
@pandstar2 ай бұрын
Ha! I just heard these yesterday at T.H.E. Show in Costa Mesa. I almost immediately heard what is going on at 3K. They were driving them with a cheap Pioneer receiver, so I thought that was causing the problems, but what Danny points out here is probably more of what I was hearing. All I know, is the sounded a bit harsh and glassy. Not what I was expecting. And I also heard the lack of soundstage detail and layering. My friend and I made the exact same comments when we left the room.
@pulDagАй бұрын
How does the glass sound?
@larsv614419 күн бұрын
Will you make an upgrade for the SourcePoint 888 too?
@jsb69372 ай бұрын
Wish I was closer (shipping costs), I have a pair of quite rare Posselt speakers and I'm really curious of how they measure. The downside of these transformations is that every speaker seems to be awfully made. Would love to hear mine upgraded.
@AllboroLCD2 ай бұрын
I need one of those t-shirts for my lady!
@paulgyro2 ай бұрын
I have to say anyone can pay a bunch of money for expensive components. The true talent comes from the design making the most of the components they do have.
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
That's true. In this case though, just a little more could have been spent on better components and these could have been brought up a few notches pretty easily.
@jianbooАй бұрын
I totally agree!!! You really hit it by pointing out money can pay expensive components, but I've yet to see Danny's offerings that are worth considering at this value proposition (that are made complete and are plug and play).
@dannyrichie9743Ай бұрын
@@jianboo Are you kidding me? These are easily surpassed by just about everything we offer, especially models in our X-Series and up (not even close).
@jianbooАй бұрын
@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, I don't doubt that you believe in your own creation, but selling these component upgrades in your youtube videos says otherwise.
@dannyrichie9743Ай бұрын
@@jianboo Ha, we do these upgrades as a service to help those that purchased speakers that don't sound as good as they felt they should have. Typically because they are loaded with garbage on the inside. Try checking out Ron's (from New record Day) review of the Mofi 10 and have a listen to the sound clips. Then compare those sound clips with the same sound clips that he made from any of our speakers. Even in the sound clips of a compressed KZbin file the superiority of our designs easily can be heard.
@MFKitten2 ай бұрын
I wonder if a coaxial speaker made with a flat or dome shaped cone would be better, eliminating the moving waveguide aspect. I have seen the ones that have the little cone on the tweeter itself to be the actual waveguide. That's one way to get around the issue I suppose.
@DannyRichie-uc8sw2 ай бұрын
Nah, then you'd just have a moving baffle which would likely be worse.
@kurtcurran2 ай бұрын
Thiel 3.7 designed driver with wave membrane but flat surface so tweeter not in a wave guide.
@ThresholdZhor2 ай бұрын
That narrow ringing is the Doppler effect on coaxial speakers
@mattholland3152 ай бұрын
Really? So you’re saying the ringing wouldn’t be in the measurement if the test signal was a sine sweep, but would be there if broad band noise was used?
@ThresholdZhor2 ай бұрын
@@mattholland315 the doppler effect increase if bass is present, I mean music, coaxial is only worthy if the woofer is cut above 600 hz the the doppler is minor but that need a 3 way design like the upper model Dany mention in the video
@Charles125092 ай бұрын
Have you looked at the Volti speakers and if so what do you think?
@ChicagoRob22 ай бұрын
I’m surprised they didn’t bother to radius the rear edge of the woofer opening.
@thepracticalaudiophile2 ай бұрын
I thought they were going to talk to each other.
@stevenpaul38862 ай бұрын
The cross over kit I got from Danny for my SVS towers are absolutely amazing, but it took two years for me for them to sound there very best considering I was told it takes 500 hours for everything to break in. Yep, it really did take that long, before that they just sounded plan before the OMG happened. The speakers unreal and better then my friends B&W 700 series towers. No joke they fill the room so much better, it just took a long, long time for them to get to this point. It’s actually hard to explain how good they actually sound unless ur able to experience it. Thx Danny! Wow
@paulgyro2 ай бұрын
500 hours of break in? What if I told you it was 50? How do you know who's right?How long until it just breaks? Why doesn't break in continue past 500? At want point are they just worn out?
@stevenpaul38862 ай бұрын
Doesn’t matter what you think lol… All I can say is it took a very long time for them to sound 3 dimensional with a beautiful soundstage. You have no clue the amount of caps that go into this so ur really talking out ur ass, u sound like a snowflake lol. I can hear one coming a mile away! 😂
@fredemny33042 ай бұрын
"Break in" is better known as "expectation adjustment" or "bollocks".
@LugsyTLАй бұрын
@@fredemny3304One well known reviewer has best response "why does everyone assume every audio product improves with use"?
@patrickmccrank84142 ай бұрын
I didn't see an upgrade video for the SourcePoint 10s. Would they use the same upgrade kit?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
I have not looked at that model yet. Maybe someone will send one in.
@larrygaines74622 ай бұрын
My opinion, same coax is moving in and out wave guide. I see a nice spot for tweeter, and plenty of space to mount an a amp and dac, xover for the expence.
@BruceCross2 ай бұрын
Textbook case of a speaker that measures well, but still has issues.
@Joshualbm5 күн бұрын
Easy with the MOFI bashing. There is no better product out there for reissues of classic recordings. They use DSD as part of their process because it is a vastly superior step in retaining the analog essence without further degradation of the tape. The format was introduced by Sony as an archival process that was essentially a direct, exact copy of the master recording. So Sony had to encrypt it on their SACD reissues because of the exactitude with which the recordings are rendered. Talk to any recording engineer out there and they will attest to a DSD dub as being indistinguishable from the master. The 1 bit recording process follows the amplitude of the signal and can be played back with only a simple filter directly through analog equipment. It is not a file that can be manipulated or written over because it is not a binary code. Everyone who bought a MOFI re-issue recording from this process has the best possible rendition of those original recordings. Give them a break, they're producing amazing stuff and should continue to do so for the benefit of humanity who are slowly being brainwashed by garbage.
@MichelLinschoten2 ай бұрын
Tbh at that price pretty cheesy crossover. Wasn't expecting that at all
@bw88272 ай бұрын
Charge a premium price and what the eye doesn't see............Well done Danny. I doubt Andrew Jones will respond.
@gdwlaw55492 ай бұрын
Hi, I’m Andrew Jones AI😅
@rap-soldier21852 ай бұрын
@ Mr Larwence go play tennis and no meat. ⁉️@gdwlaw5549
@ricome16920 күн бұрын
danny is a little pimple along side andrew jones
@robertfournier70502 ай бұрын
Your T-shirt says it all. Yet a question on these drivers is where is the magnet?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
They use a small neo magnet.
@andrewsefcik12426 күн бұрын
What can you do for my JBL 100 Classics to upgrade them
@andrefortune82782 ай бұрын
What reference tracks are there for this ringing 🫣
@rickg80152 ай бұрын
Hi Danny.. Do you also provide the new boards for the larger XO parts with layout instructions? Plus, Assembly instructions inside the cab?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
It does not come with a board to mount the parts on.
@DannyRichie-uc8sw2 ай бұрын
new boards are not provided, you will need to figure out the layout and mounting.
@rikardekvall34332 ай бұрын
@@dannyrichie9743is there an extra DannyRichie-uc8sw that answer the comments?
@donaldharrell69152 ай бұрын
Those parts are sad. I have a pair of Elac Adante stand mounts and the crossover parts are much better for less money. Guess the profit margins at MOFI need to be much higher. Still like Andrew Jones speakers though.
@thinkIndependent20242 ай бұрын
Danny As I grow older the need to listen to speakers direct is less and leans more on the theory of light and rear projection just like Alan Blumlein intended when he invented Stereo circa 1929. Is it possible Americans were so hooked on mono they missed the rear projection concept let me know if you are familiar.
@FOH36632 ай бұрын
Will you elaborate please? .... interesting
@thinkIndependent20242 ай бұрын
When I studied 1933 archives the goal was to replicate a " Life Size" Image they redeveloped new microphones and speakers to meet that target and remember he got the Idea in a movie theater!! The math in his notes point towards speakers angled to produce a mirror Image from reverse just like light from the front in fact the vectors in the formulas are light based When all is right you get the direction of the piano keys and the singer around 5-6 feet high and most instruments 3-4 feet a true Analogue I'm not referring to Vinyl but the true definition of the word.
@markgaches19612 ай бұрын
Daniel is on fire this week another incredible job done.
@thomasschafer72682 ай бұрын
What job? Overprized upgrade 😅😅😅😅
@aceofspades66672 ай бұрын
@@thomasschafer7268overprized ?
@davidnewell3232Ай бұрын
@@thomasschafer7268 Do you go by Thom or Mr. Asschafer?
@jdlech2 ай бұрын
Phase shift is definitely among the most misunderstood aspects of speaker design. I just deleted about an hour of writing. It's beyond the scope of this comments section. I was once tasked to teach a co-worker how to handle a certain tool. It took me all of 5 minutes to demonstrate it's use. But it took me nearly an entire day to explain all the things one has to consider in order to use that tool properly and safely. In the end, he reported to my boss that, "he made it look too easy". Danny, you make driver phase management look too easy.
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
Thanks, and yes, it is not an easy subject.
@edgewound2 ай бұрын
Phase shift is addressed in the time alignment of the dual concentric design.
@eddietours37282 ай бұрын
I wonder if you test in a anechoic chamber again would the change too much not what jones was looking for 🤔
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
We've had a 23 foot long anechoic chamber. I can measure down to 200Hz using a gated time window, outside of the anechoic chamber, and get the exact same results.
@scrivs19762 ай бұрын
Way to go on the thumbnail, slow-Yoda!
@ciprian8102 ай бұрын
I get old school Technics sb m300 vibes, seeing these.
@BrianHaselden-ek7jv2 ай бұрын
Can you modify the grill to remove the Mobile Fidelity badge, lol?
@HansDelbruck532 ай бұрын
A Dremel tool works wonders. LSMFT
@carlosoliveira-rc2xt2 ай бұрын
You can easily put a Bose badge on it or a custom Magico plaque for the rear if things like that matter to you.
@FOH36632 ай бұрын
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Yes, like a SS 454 badge ... "is that a real 454 SS?"
@ThatGuyAM2 ай бұрын
Shirt kinda matches the baffle shape.
@BruceCross2 ай бұрын
Ha, it kinda does.
@solarman302 ай бұрын
The thumbnail is hilarious! Dan
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
That's all Ron (my editor). I don't see them until you do.
@BrentLeVasseur2 ай бұрын
Why couldn’t they move the center tweeter slightly forward closer to the edge of the speaker cone and then slightly delay the signal response to time align it with the woofer such that the cone movement wouldn’t affect the tweeter response?
@n.lyndley.98892 ай бұрын
Two ways to time align. Analogue: physically move the driver. Digital: independent delay of frequency band.
@great100m2 ай бұрын
Very interesting. I would like to hear Andrew Jones' rebuttal or whether he agrees.
@michaelmarcin10037 күн бұрын
I doubt Jones would complain about using better quality parts. At most he might dispute the value of any changre or improvement. Frankly, it would be nice if MoFi offered an option to buy the speaker with higher quality crossover parts.
@Kthl195042 ай бұрын
Will there be an upgrade available for the 10s?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
If someone sends one in then I will have a look at it.
@stevengagnon47772 ай бұрын
Small wave guide for the tweeter? Or will that fix one problem and create a worse problem? Really is there a win, win solution to eliminate the woofer cone as a wave guide. I always thought thst the moving wave guide (woofer) would create some problems . Perhaps the shape near the tweeter thought is not right or could be tweaked to minimize the effects. This can only be addressed in the design and development phase of manufacturing. Thr art of manufacturing speakers is certainly addressing the the trade offs and pit falls to achieve a pleasant sound.
@hoth21122 ай бұрын
The main issue is the voice coil former for the woofer sticks out 1-2mm above the tweeter's mount. Trimming the former back to just behind the tweeter mount would help a lot, as pushing the woofer back to push the former down helped to smooth out the response quite a bit. Adding another/separate waveguide could work, but it would likely cause issues for the woofer, especially at higher volumes, or it could also make the tweeter response worse as well. (see the SoundArtist SB8C)
@stevengagnon47772 ай бұрын
@@hoth2112 glad to hear a reply. It does seem like a little refinement at the voice coil former and adjacent area could go a long way. As I suspected a separate wave guide will not be easy to implement and still cuase worse problems. The moving cone of the woofer has been one of my concerns along with the actual shape of the cones. I believe that the shape ideal as wave guide for the tweeter may conflict with the ideal shape for the woofer.
@johnpeterson992 ай бұрын
Steve's rather 'loud' silence on the source point 10s is rather interesting to me. He didn't even give them an honorable mention at the end of '23. Anyone else notice this?
@BruceCross2 ай бұрын
Steve Guttenberg?
@darrenmarrable2530Ай бұрын
Wish I could hear the difference....😊
@wyup2 ай бұрын
I'm glad such videos exist to realise how much a speaker is overpriced, all Hi-Fi is speculative, prices of products such as these jump in the thousands: 999$, 1,999$, 2,999$ to mount polyester capacitors and ferric binding posts. Making this speaker costs so much less than the asking price.
@justasimplefox2 ай бұрын
That crossover 😂
@thomasschafer72682 ай бұрын
😅😅😅klipsch ist keinen Deut besser!!!🇩🇪
@mattholland3152 ай бұрын
There’s nothing funny about it at all. Sold engineering at appropriate costs. The gains from Danny’s upgrade had he not tweaked the response would be very very subtle. Erin measured this speaker and it did not display failings you could point towards the crossover.
@ianorigbo76172 ай бұрын
This is a big one.
@benjoe9992 ай бұрын
I would like you to check a KEF C95. Maaaan.... It took me a lot of time to update it
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
Send one in and I will take a look at it.
@Ricky-cl5bu2 ай бұрын
Where is the money in them if the crossover is no good , it’s only a box with a 8” full range driver 😮
@RennieAsh2 ай бұрын
The cabinet, and the driver probably takes just as much to design a good coaxial motor system. Otherwise it's the same old thing, there's markup everywhere
@theoracleprodigy2 ай бұрын
@@morlidorhave you ever tried updating a crossover? It can make a massive difference especially when it's junk.
@davidcross8902 ай бұрын
@@morlidorwhat???
@theoracleprodigy2 ай бұрын
@@morlidor lol try again. Replace one sand cast resistor on a tweeter and tell me you didn't hear an immediate difference. Until you do that you can't state that it makes no difference.
@mndlessdrwer2 ай бұрын
I'm sure it and the 10" version are nice, but I inherently distrust 2-way designs that claim to be full-range. There's just no way you're getting deep bass and clean mids at the same time. Compromises will be made. If you don't like a lot of bass then it may be an acceptable compromise, but I love bass, so I'll stick to proper 3-way designs.
@1moderntalking12 ай бұрын
Danny, the Obi-wan of speaker modz!
@ericthemauve2 ай бұрын
More like the Jar Jar Binks tbh. Annoying and pointless.
@1moderntalking12 ай бұрын
@@ericthemauve huh? What do ya have against Danny?
@ericthemauveАй бұрын
@@1moderntalking1 How long have you got?
@1moderntalking1Ай бұрын
@@ericthemauve try me…
@oluhamilton21212 ай бұрын
TELL 'EM, Danny.
@robk57452 ай бұрын
Everything is really cheap, not shocked for an over marketed product. Still a 3k speaker here in Canada, that’s crazy
@naomispirit-evokingemotion22672 ай бұрын
Agree with the Xover component upgrade. Are their any Xover distortion measurements at rated power to justify the price
@CarlVanDoren612 ай бұрын
Andrew Jones is shaking his head 😮
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
We were shaking ours too.
@lloyd.82722 ай бұрын
Probably not, everything has to be built to a price point. If this speaker had a crossover with this level of upgrades it would probably be 5k +
@freeradical63902 ай бұрын
Wawa at Mission Ridge.......its a double black diamond. :)
@12622outback2 ай бұрын
Short run but fun
@zzt231gr2 ай бұрын
I have his Elac Carina floorstanders which I doubt you could discover improvements!
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
Oh yeah? looks inside.
@DirectX32 ай бұрын
It is chinaman made. Open it up and you know it.
@Pok-0012 ай бұрын
Wanted those back when they were on sale. Pretty sure those aren’t designed by Andrew Jones. Would imagine the crossover at the price would have cheaper parts and could be improved.
@oluhamilton21212 ай бұрын
AJ had nothing to do with Carinas
@zzt231gr2 ай бұрын
@@oluhamilton2121 you are wrong.He is the designer.How can you post that without checking it out first?
@IanKnight402 ай бұрын
Ringing at 3khz.....is this due to the notch filter ?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
No it has something to do with the response of the tweeter right at the inside edge of the woofer cone.
@driftingbunnies2 ай бұрын
Does the upgrade reuse the stock crossover PCB?
@hoth21122 ай бұрын
No, the new parts (as seen on the table) are much too large to fit back onto the original PCB, which is also mounted to the rear binding post cup. you will need to mount the crossover onto a couple boards and fit them between the braces on the floor of the speaker.
@ilianstoimenov66192 ай бұрын
MoFi likes this video 🤣🤣🤣
@benpatana76642 ай бұрын
Hmm. I was interested in these speakers having heard the 10. But the idea of buying them new and then having to upgrade them fills me with dread.
@wa23682 ай бұрын
Get the sourcepoint 8-8-8 floorstander. It is a whole lot better than the bookshelfs.
@benpatana76642 ай бұрын
@@wa2368 Thanks, I wasn't aware of these! Will definitely check them out.
@rikardekvall34332 ай бұрын
@@wa2368great choice, but I don’t think this have a Danny crossover.
@rikardekvall34332 ай бұрын
Well you don’t need to upgrade anything, only enjoy the music. BUT if you want to take it to next level, then a upgrade on the crossover will give you a musical moment. These speakers are built to a price point.
@hamidrezahabibi81112 ай бұрын
Will you upgrade the 10s as well?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
If someone sends one in than I will take a look at it.
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
I think someone is sending one in.
@Rocker69692 ай бұрын
Danny, Is that big/thick baffle an improvement as far as you can tell or just there to look good ?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
The faceted design does minimize some surface reflections.
@pauldavies60372 ай бұрын
Andrew is a great designer but is probably told by the accountants only to use the cheapest cross over parts
@TheAgeOfAnalog2 ай бұрын
Would you say concentric drivers are basically a gimmick?
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
No, they have merit.
@linandy1Ай бұрын
How colored is that poly cone ?
@dannyrichie9743Ай бұрын
It was a paper cone.
@JulioCSolar2 ай бұрын
Like one of my audiophiles friend says: why reputable designers and companies don’t offer upgrades? For him having Danny go through their design and rip it off doesn’t make any sense when they can easily offer 2 different iterations of the same design and leave people with the choice. I agree.
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
I am not ripping it off. We are just servicing our customers. You are correct though in that they could offer a higher quality version of it. We do that with most of our DIY kits. We have a budget level version and upgrade options.
@LeonFleisherFan2 ай бұрын
Probably it's a way of admitting the standard version is built to a price point versus the promise of marketing hyperbole? Having said that, I agree full heartedly, it would be the pragmatic way of going about it, not to mention if crossovers were external or somehow plug-in, which is technically speaking highly feasible, it would allow people to get their dream speaker at its entry level price and save up for the upgrade as an option, without having to rip out drivers and unsolder and re-solder parts etc., which is probably not everyone's cup of tea.
@kjellrogerjgensen602 ай бұрын
They dont do uppgrades, for some reason, but it is good for Danny. Maybe they dont trust their customers to uppgrade filters instead of bying new more expensive speakers with new bad filters instead. Its a question about educating your customers instead of exploiting their lack of knowledge. And most of the brands seems to have chosen the last option. But at wery high pricepoints the priority are leaning the other way. So Danny are making gold out of grey rock. All honour to him for that. I hope they dont hate him for that. Car manufacturers does not mind if cars are being modifyed, or improved as far as i know, only in som countryes, but that is from safety and tax reasons...
@mndlessdrwer2 ай бұрын
CSS offers that kind of service, at least for their DIY speaker kits. They offer multiple tiers of crossover components, though I think they're all the same basic configuration, just a difference in quality.
@mndlessdrwer2 ай бұрын
@@dannyrichie9743 Exactly. Figure out how they tuned it by reverse-engineering the existing crossover, determine if that is optimal for the desired tuning, then replace or add components in a higher quality to ensure better performance, more consistency, and better longevity.
@davestevens41932 ай бұрын
Tour d cheese
@dextermorgan12 ай бұрын
19:38 What the hell is an "impedance trap"? Lol I thought I'd heard most lingo when it comes to speakers, their design and components, but obviously not!
@dominicdiclemente88772 ай бұрын
Looks like just a notch filter where the resistor value was chosen to define the load impedance. It’s in parallel with the actual crossover so it doesn’t change the output of the drivers but lowers the impedance in a narrow freq band
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
@@dominicdiclemente8877 That is correct.
@LeonFleisherFan2 ай бұрын
Any type of amplifier using an output transformer, which is true of most tube amplifiers, will "mimic" and thus skew the frequency response (with the exception of some superlative and costly designs that I doubt anyone would use with this speakers) - and no, that's not a flaw of the amplifier. So even if one didn't do the crossover upgrade on this speaker, but used it with a tube amplifier (it's fairly low in sensitivity, would need to be a reasonably powerful one), using this LCR in parallel with the speaker (across the binding posts of either the speaker or the amp) would audibly improve sound quality, and the loss in energy is negligible.
@dominicdiclemente88772 ай бұрын
@@LeonFleisherFan what do you mean by mimic ? Are you talking about the higher output impedance of tube amps (more commonly referred by the damping factor) ? If anything having a higher output impedance is a downside when it comes to this notch filter
@LeonFleisherFan2 ай бұрын
@@dominicdiclemente8877I wish I could upload measurements to demonstrate, but you'll find ones googling the subject: what happens is when a transformer "sees" a flat impedance, the frequency response will be flat, but when it "sees" variation, this variation will be reflected in the frequency response. Not to the full extent in percent, but up to a few decibels depending on the impedance (and related electric phase) swings.
@user-td1lo9eo2p2 ай бұрын
Can I send you my 10’s to upgrade them ??
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
I'll be glad to take a look at one of them.
@user-td1lo9eo2p2 ай бұрын
Great how do I go about it
@dannyrichie97432 ай бұрын
@@user-td1lo9eo2p Send one to the address that is at the bottom of every page of our website.
@Atheistic0072 ай бұрын
Wow, $3200 CAD.
@maartenmulder26302 ай бұрын
Has anyone actually tried this upgrade yet? From the video i get the impression you guys havent listened to the speaker acter the upgrade. Regards
@DannyRichie-uc8sw2 ай бұрын
the person who sent the speaker to Danny is currently having them built and installed. so no, no one has listened to them yet. We never do the installation work in-house, just the crossover design work.
@maartenmulder26302 ай бұрын
@@DannyRichie-uc8sw Ah i understand, Thank you. Does that mean this kit was developed without being listened to? Curious cus I'm considering doing this upgrade in the future
@timpollack46062 ай бұрын
@@DannyRichie-uc8sw Do you put your kits in the speaker and listen to them or is it pure speculation that they will sound better?
@amphaymanibod345212 күн бұрын
Can I make a career suggestion for Danny , why don’t you design and make your brand of speakers instead of putting down other brands of speakers come on dude you can make so much more money like Andrew jones.
@michaelmarcin10037 күн бұрын
Seems like he was very complimentary of the speaker. The fact is, MoFi uses lower tier crossover components. Some people think it makes a difference. Here Danny's upgrade is basically just replacing the parts with better quality ones. I kind of like that he gives people the option to use higher quality caps. YMMV.
@TriAmpHiFi2 ай бұрын
. So it is the same MoFi.
@larryschwartz98832 ай бұрын
Sad to see el-cheapo parts in a speaker in this price range. Especially when every single reviewer raved about it. More high priced junk!
@veroman0072 ай бұрын
tbh i expected more from that speaker for that price. my old elac dfr52 models, andrew jones, were incredibly well braced but the parts were identical to those and the dfr sold for 1.2k more or less. that speaker is over priced imho. yes it has molded baffles but its a simple box with one hole in it and a couple ports.. always amazed to see reviewers gushing over every andrew jones design and then you take a look and its just average. i am certain those upgrades will be impressive ntl.
@sudd36602 ай бұрын
the end price might not be only with parts and work, if it sound too good for the price they intended. they increase the price. they wont a good speaker at a cheap price.
@davidcross8902 ай бұрын
My references are ultra high performance and the sourcepoint was unbearable to listen to compared to a full synergy designed and built ultra high performance setup. I could not settle for the vast limitations that were clearly audible when I listened to them. I would never affiliate my name to less than par excellence minimum under any circumstances
@sandwaves56422 ай бұрын
And the result ??? 🤔🤔 PS - I was subscribed, but now I'm NOT - WHY ??
@pizzaearthpancakesandother25492 ай бұрын
You get a sheet of NoRez! You get a sheet of NoRez! Everybody gets a sheet of NoRez! Regards, Oprah
@thomasschafer72682 ай бұрын
For 3000€/pair is the crossover absolute a joke. Looks like klipsch inside. The 8" chassis is from china. 🤔🤔
@andrewhutchison37122 ай бұрын
I guess Danny will be too busy to make videos anymore soon as surely he will be scooped up by one of the big guys to sort out all their dodgy designs now that we all know he can improve upon Andrew Jones designs.......