Grubby | WC3 | HOW TO: Orc vs Elf (Druids of the Talon)

HOW TO: Orc vs Elf (Druids of the Talons) (Game played on 29-March-2021)
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[@FollowGrubby]

***Oops! It looks like the previous video was a double upload. Here is one you definitely haven't seen before. Sorry for the inconvenience.*** A new educational series, findable by the playlist “HOW TO” - this time with an Orc vs Elf and how to beat mass Druids of the Talon! When going BM SH, try to get up towers with an expo and then build THIS army!

[@Matcha抹茶]

You are orc king

[@135791max]

Thank you for this! You owed us nothing for an honest mistake, so its pretty awesome to still get a new vid today!

[@deadweight2121]

When I heard him say "wc3 gym discord" I thought he meant it was a server of a bunch of guys playing wc3 and trying to get jacked at the same time lol.

[@FollowGrubby]

Don't say guys and jacked at the same time please!

[@jerrygreenest]

22:17 how to catch a Chimaera: 1. Throw a fish net into Chimaera 2. Teleport Chimaera to you Raider skills tho

[@gabrielweber7145]

Thak you Grubby! Please make more videos "how to", I'm learning a lot with you.

[@FollowGrubby]

Glad to hear it!

[@vinf.9233]

i just want to know if do you a build with Beast master as your hero on orcs

[@Buschnaga]

What happened with the ensnare at 22:19? Why does the chim get sucked towards the raider?

[@July-se8zd]

If you use raider or cryptfiend web on flying unit above a tree or special terrain they gonna get landed near the raider spot

[@FollowGrubby]

When they're above units too. Basically impassable place

[@Vahe345]

Grubby: "i didn't play it as sharp as you should" 24:53 encouraging words!

[@chrisegg7936]

3:20 how did Grubby know the dh was an illusion?

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Nice alternate strategy as Mass Talons. (The one I have seen most being Blademaster + initial Grunts + Tauren Chieftain + Raiders + Walkers and no expansion -- hard to hang on at first, but if you manage to get Tauren Chieftain to level 3, you start doing okay, and if you get Tauren Chieftain to level 5 and get off a few fully leveled Shockwaves, then you've got the Night Elf on the ropes. People used to say Shadow Hunter is non-optimal against Talons, but obviously, it works, although do note Grubby's warning about the need for Serpent Ward micro.)

[@01010101010111001012]

Back to two vids a day? cool!

[@teutonicknight452]

Some vids about how to beat a startegy and a build order my fav kind of vids also attack upgrades for raiders very good right ?

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Now after seeing this, I'd like to see a How-To for _doing_ Mass Talons.

[@captainobvious8530]

23:30 F

[@johncharles3907]

Rofl do a bit of creeping during the big attack hahaha

[@petercoderch589]

Man, mass talons Vs Orcs is so 2006. Does this even work in the new patches? After Moon got crushed by the Grubster using talons at the 2008 WCG finals, you would think that would be the end of it. But I see Noobelves that are definitely not Moon-level trying this and failing continuously. Every time I play some Noobelf on ladder that tries this, I get so pissed off I feel like just expoing by whatever means necessary, towering up just to be a DK, and then teching to mass wyverns with envonemed bolts to wreck their talons like fleas. In fact, I have done this, and I love their anger and frustration when they watch ther entire 80 food army of talons dying in less than a minute. Thanks, Grubby, for being one of the Orcs most skilled at punishing Elves for using this broken strategy.

[@FollowGrubby]

It still gets played some yeah, espec on LR

[@petercoderch589]

@@FollowGrubby Thanks, Grub. You should really try my mass wyverns with venon against mass talons. They do ridiculous amount of damage to talons. If you can spirit link them better yet. Obviously getting tier 3 is a problem, but key is to tower up and harrass aggressively their economy with the wyverns from tier 2 on. Just keep butchering their wisps. Getting SW for link is not absolutely necessary, since you will also have to spend money on shams for dispells. But just oen SW does the trick. I actually pulled this off 2 times against decently good Elves at 70% on Bnet. Of course, your skills are 1,000,000,000 X mine, so do whatever you want. Just saying. Man, I hate players that cheese game by massing a single broken unit.

[@rinaldi224]

​@@petercoderch589 Nice post. Yeah, it's going to be near impossible for Grub to get that sort of tech at his level. No disrespect -- it's a neat idea, though. I was just thinking last night how NE probably gets the most amount of slack of all 4 races in terms of "flaming" or hate. People call FS HH an "Apestrat," which is fine I guess. But why isn't mass T1 NE an Apestrat too?? It's literally braindead attack-all -- wayyyyy easier than FS HH. IMO, just has to do w/ FS HH being a new Strat coupled w/ the fact that Orc has played standard for so many years. People don't like change so they lash out. Whereas NE is known for mixing up their strategies... just my take on it. But it's a bit weird. PS, I agree DoTs is super lame. I'll never understand why a NE player will act like they are doing a "real" Strat, while countering w/ Raider laming to buy time is somehow frowned upon? Like, dude c'mon. You started it with this BS Cyclone nonsense, lol.

[@Taznak]

​@@rinaldi224 I think there's a good reason why Elves go for Mass Talons... or mass tier 1... or mass Bears... or mass Dryads. It happens way more than with other races, and it's because Night Elf heroes are weak. Keeper of the Grove is an early game powerhouse, but as soon as your opponent unlocks dispels, his abilities become pretty useless outside of harassing an expo with treants and maybe healing up your army with Tranquility eventually. Demon Hunter scales better into the mid and lategame, but he doesn't have a good hero to partner up with; solo DH can't stand up to BM + SH or to FS + TC, or DK + Lich or AM + MK or MK + Blood Mage... and DH + a second hero, any second hero, also falls short. Warden scales well into the lategame if she can level up a lot, but a good triple hero setup will still overpower her. The Night Elf race, then, has weaker heroes (which is why they resort to tavern heroes more often than all other races), and has more of their power budget in their non-hero units. It makes sense for them, then, to get unit-specific upgrades for a unit, make a ton of those, then do a timing attack, sometimes with an expo, sometimes without one. Making varied army compositions requires more buildings, more unit-specific upgrades, a lot of lumber... and that takes more time. But if they give their opponents enough time, Night Elf just has no answer to, say, a Human opponent with a level 5 Archmage, level 5 MK, and level 3 Paladin. You can replace those with BM + SH + TC or MK + Blood Mage + Paladin or DK + Lich + Dark Ranger or Crypt Lord + DK + Lich and the result is the same.

[@tonyng9]

Night Elf is also inherently the macro race, with a lot of it revolving around the expo since their trees can walk and help creep. People who lose to a straight up tier 1 push from a NE that did not expo are probably just not as good as his opponent. They would lose to a tier 1 push vs other races when the opponent has a similar skill advantage. Elves winning by mass tier 1 are typically winning by economy, and the game is often decided by whether they can expand unpunished or not. The Night Elf tier 1 is pretty bad if it isn't backed by larger army size, greater upgrades, and/or healing scrolls.

[@biensur]

strike first strike hard no mercy

[@jabhatta]

Can grubby beat computer level - insane 1v1

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

He has done a couple of moderately recent videos on this, the second of which has *2* Insane AIs.

[@ricardomilos4373]

Why no heal wave? SH is the best healer

[@Taznak]

A lot of the units Night Elves use vs. Orc take extra damage from Serpent Wards, so it makes more sense to level that skill up first. If it's your higher level skill, you want to spend your mana on that over Healing Wave, and you're going to have mana issues anyway because Demon Hunter exists. There's an argument to be made for going Serpent Wards + Healing Wave instead of Serpent Wards + Hex, and it may be right, but you're going to end up spending most of your mana on Serpent Wards anyway. Now, if the Elf has a bunch of Mountain Giants, Serpent Wards become obsolete. At that point, Healing Wave + Hex is best, and maybe you want to use a Tome of Retraining to get it.

[@ricardomilos4373]

@@Taznak seem reasonable, but why choose Hex? If you could have Wave like option instead of useless Hex? Grubby was almost sure about Elf going mass talons

[@rinaldi224]

​@@ricardomilos4373 He had Hex bc he needed it to fight when the SH came out. Hex is by far the most powerful lvl 1 spell in that situation. It's true that you ideally wouldn't want Hex in this build, and it would've been a good idea to retain SH for just 200g. But Grubby didn't have the time/resources to do that. Games are hectic and sometimes you forget! He also spent a ton of gold on scrolls before the looooong siege at the expo. Finally, remember he was mining w/ 4 Peons at the expo for almost the entire game? :-/

[@rinaldi224]

@@Taznak I replied below, let me know what you think. Btw, he had lvl 2 Serpent and lvl 1 Wave & Hex. He got Hex first to help fight when the SH came out. Mostly agree with everything else you wrote, though! Cheers mate

[@ricardomilos4373]

@@rinaldi224 He could have Heal lvl 2 instead of 1/1 Hex and Wave Healing wave is not only a spell, it saves your money for healing scroll, also consider that Talons have great focus damage, scrolls can't out heal that, I think snakes lvl 2 mistake too In summary: there is no reasons to refuse of healing wave in favor of any other skill, exceptions are really rare