Guarding Against Physical Attacks: The Xbox One Story - Tony Chen, Microsoft

PlatformSecuritySummit.com/20...
Every game console since the first Atari was more or less designed to prevent the piracy of games and yet every single game console has been successfully modified to enable piracy. However, this trend has come to an end. Both the Xbox One and the PS4 have now been on the market for close to 6 years, without hackers being able to crack the system to enable piracy or cheating. This is the first time in history that game consoles have lasted this long without being cracked to enable piracy.
In this talk, we will discuss how we achieved this for the Xbox One. We will first describe the Xbox security design goals and why it needs to guard against hardware attacks, followed by descriptions of the hardware and software architecture to keep the Xbox secure. This includes details about the custom SoC we built with AMD and how we addressed the fact that all data read from flash, the hard drive, and even DRAM cannot be trusted. We will also discuss the corresponding software changes we made to keep the system and the games secure.

[@BuIlDaLiBlE]

1:21 - Xbox Security Goals 3:52 - Xbox Security != Windows Security 5:51 - What attackers are willing to do (Kamikaze Hack) 8:55 - Xbox 360 Reset Glitch Hack (RGH) 11:01 - Hardware Security Assumptions 13:54 - Xbox One SoC Security Architecture 16:10 - Security Processor Goals 18:02 - Core Tenants of Xbox One Security 19:32 - Multi-VM Architecture with Defense in Depth 20:28 - Xbox Virtual Disks (XVD) 21:50 - License Key Packages to Decrypt XVD 23:36 - About Optical Disk Based Games 26:21 - Hypervisor Enforcement of Signed Code 28:02 - OS State Separation and Integrity Checked OS Image 29:49 - Custom SP Key Registers 31:15 - Global Key Tree 33:03 - Secure Boot (Attackers Always Go For This First) 35:24 - Attestation to Recover From Software Mistakes 37:17 - Why Has Xbox One Security Lasted So Long 40:05 - Key Take Away 43:17 - Q&A 44:05 - "Why can't we buy a Microsoft Surface Pro with Xbox inside?" 47:03 - "Xbox One is initially marketed as always online console with no optical drive, were there any challenges beside the drive going from always online to needing to have offline functionality?" 49:30 - "So the root key is specific per console?" 52:05 - "Assuming that's everything in DRAM that's not on SoC die is encrypted, is it still encrypted in terms of before it hits on die registers?" 52:43 - "Because of XVD architecture, is this why Xbox One updates are always gigabytes large?" 53:11 - A long question about Blu-ray keys 54:58 - "AMD doesn't have the best track record of firmware security, I'm curious who provided the firmware for that thing?" 56:03 - "Were there any security changes made to make sure you couldn't be in God mode? What kind of attacks would they use on Xbox Live to do that?" 57:06 - "Didn't you ever consider like a CAC to be able to update the keys in the box?"

[@CursedMojo]

Thank you!

[@EpicGamer440]

Not all hero's wear capes...

[@lucamw8104]

Now the XBox One is at the end of its life ... Microsoft could release an update that makes it possible to install linux, android or a version of windows suitable for a media center or other purposes. we already have enough electronic junk! and it seems that Bill Gates doesn't like electronic junk. the hardware of this console can perform other tasks now.

[@amarioguy]

@@lucamw8104 spoiler: The Series X|S is architecturally identical to the Xbox One, so atm all security must remain intact

[@kl5ie2023]

Isn't it funny that when you sell someone a general purpose box that can be used in the way that the user wants, which is intrinsically useful to them, they decide to work with you to preserve the security of the system, but when you sell them a locked down black box that can NOT be used for any purpose other than what you intend, they choose to work against you and break your intended security.

[@IrrationalCharm]

A vast majority don’t care about running Linux on the console. Most people I know would hack the console to play pirated games. They don’t care about emulation.

[@kl5ie2023]

@@IrrationalCharm I think we probably know different types of people, because the types of friends I have are definitely interested in installing Linux. I find that these consoles are highly useful for various purposes, long after the generation of gaming on them has passed. The model as always is to sell the hardware at a loss and re-coupe that on game sales, so for someone like me that wants cheap hardware for general purposes, these old consoles are great, and I appreciate those who go to great lengths to ensure that Linux installs and runs on them. The real question is, why do you care how I use my legally owned hardware?

[@IrrationalCharm]

@@kl5ie2023 that’s because ur a nerd and you are surrounded by nerds. +98% of console consumers donde care about that stuff. If they did, we would have a very different product. Most gamers are casuals that don’t even understand what Linux is

[@GlibShpychka]

It's not that funny. He explains it pretty well in the beginning - they'd go out of business if it wasn't locked down, since they make their money on the software

[@rodrigomolinsky]

Hello fellows MVG viewers... 6:59 - Here is the start of the clip he used. It's quite funny.

[@themacintoshnerd]

The best extra layer of security for your console is to give the non malicious modders what they want (Homebrew Emulators and Linux) and NOT give the malicious guys (Pirates and Cheaters) what they want. Now that you have given the Homebrew and Linux guys what they want they aren't going to be helping the pirates and cheaters break the security those guys are on their own now.

[@renakunisaki]

It worked for PS3. It was only when they took that away that the skilled hackers - most of whom weren't interested in piracy - started looking inside and finding all the bugs. Even though they did that in response to an initial hack (which was useless for piracy and required extensive soldering), that hack was only done because someone wanted access to the full capability of the GPU.

[@eadweard.]

Do what I want or I'll help pirates fuck you up. Kinda sounds like a protection racket.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@eadweard. No, that's just extortion at worse. Which frankly in this case I can't be particularly upset about.

[@eadweard.]

@@PhysicsGamer Yeah I see. And had they folded it would have been easier to use the same threat to extort something else out of them later. Makes me wonder if these factors influenced the decision to really lock down the newer consoles.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@eadweard. I do not see why you seem to think that's a bad thing. It would be great to be able to pressure Microsoft towards a more open architecture. In fact, that's kind of what wound up happening anyway with the whole "dev mode" thing allowing for homebrew and modding but not piracy.

[@dak1st]

How to make your device unhackable: Remove all incentives to hack it. Dev mode allow homebrewers to do what they want. Windows lets you play almost all XBox-Games if you are willing to trade having to put more effort into it for free/cheaper games. So no reason to hack the XBox.

[@Kadori328]

People want to hack online and piracy is a huge push for anyone in the hacking scene , simply out microsoft did a good ass job. Also dev mode isn't that great as you have to source whatever you want yourself plus you still don't get administrative powers

[@dak1st]

@@Kadori328 Off course hacking is something people want, and piracy as well. But most people who pirate are also not the crowd that's good enough to circumvent heavy security. But it's the same elsewhere. Why is root vanishing on Android even though many phones come with an unlockable bootloader? Because most things you had to have root for years ago can now be done without root.

[@renakunisaki]

@@dak1st can you block ads without root? Even on KZbin?

[@dak1st]

@@renakunisaki On Android? As a general adblocker use Netguard (the F-Droid version, since the Google Play version cannot block ads). This doesn't work for all apps, but it completely does for anything that doesn't need internet (completely block internet access for those apps) and it mostly does for other apps. For KZbin get the NewPipe app from F-Droid. It's a tracking-free and ad-free version of KZbin. A few features are missing (namely syncing with a Google account, commenting, voting), but for passive consumption, this is great. Make sure to add the NewPipe repo to f-droid before installing NewPipe (newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/), because when KZbin updates their API NewPipe also needs an update. And if you add the repo you will get those updates faster. For the browser use Firefox with uBlock Origin. There is pretty much nothing anymore you can't do without root. There are just things that work/perform better with root.

[@stevenlin4457]

Some people just do it for fun

[@maxt0n1]

38:19 someone should let Tony know that the PS4 has been hacked quite a few times. The Xbox One did things a lot better. I think another reason it's outlasted the PS4 is that the Xbox One allows you to run your own code in developer mode.

[@FelipeCotti]

It's pretty much the number one reason, really. We just need to look back at the PS3 fiasco that Sony did. Ignoring this aspect on the talk shows a lot of tone deafness from the speaker regarding the users who happen to be interested in this.

[@livinginharmony360]

Facts

[@bigmac375]

@@blitzwing1 the part "this is business" doesn't cover is how you become a target for not allowing the owner of the box to use it as they see fit. Powerful, cheap boxes are big targets, and if you just let me run my emulators and my media apps there won't be as much of a genuine, legal need to break the system wide open and have these dirty dirty pirates run rampant.

[@helloguy8934]

Outlasted ps4?

[@BudgiePanic]

@@helloguy8934 In terms of not being hacked. Not in terms of popularity.

[@Ivan-oe7fz]

It is incredible to one day be a 12 year old just trying to hack Call of Duty games, to one day being a college student trying to understand the technicalities behind what I was trying to do. This video is amazing

[@davidalban9359]

And drill holes in chips

[@DrTune]

Wow, enjoying this talk so much. They did an awesome job on this.

[@Kris2340k]

such an interesting talk, I want more like this

[@CarterFeldman]

Still unbroken!

[@BidoTech]

Everyday we learn something new. The only issue is that no everyone get this cain of information. Thank for the video.

[@InterDimensionalLizard]

Very interesting.

[@EhrenLoudermilk]

I had assumed console security was a game if cat and mouse. A back and forth with hackers. Its interesting to see it is more like your childs first day of college. You prepare them as much as you can and hope for the best

[@northox]

Leaving out a lot of relevant info about TPM. E.g. It doesn't have to use LPC bus and, more importantly, its purpose is not to protect against the owner but remote attacks. Still, a lot of the technology he describe comes from TCG (TPM origin).

[@CodeAsm]

Yes true, but his talk wasnt about the details about TPM, his adience is however familiar with TPM and he notes that the classic implementation his adience is probably familiar with not applicable for the xbox. His target adience was to tell them that in their case, the user cant be trusted, you basicly then have to move the TPM inside the SoC. drop the LPC bus then, and when your custom making a SoC, why not implement more features to keep the user out?

[@twocows360]

incredibly interesting talk

[@kyle7574]

Intresting

[@LouiesLog]

Interesting!

[@rossrogers84]

"child eating bug" . That certainly raises the stakes over "show stopper".

[@neeeruuuu]

would be interesting to get an estimate of how much performance is lost due to this, how r/w is affected, how well the hv runs and all that stuff

[@yjk_ch]

I've watched Fail0verflow's PS4 Linux video before, and I'm not even sure what Sony did to improve security. For instance, why did they drop the HV instead of fixing one from PS3?

[@Cyrus_II]

Why isn't it possible to steal the optical drive key by intercepting the sata cable?

[@-kurogane-]

While it's true that allowing users to run unsigned code in Dev Mode sandbox surely repells the incentive to hack the console, it's still not the same thing as fully unlocking the device. And malicious intent of playing backups or cheating is only one side of the coin. Right now, Microsoft implemented all the DRM measures which they received huge backlash for during Xbox One presentation back in 2013. You can refer to MVG's video on these measures for further explanation. A lot of basic console functionality requires internet connection, and it furthers the idea where all the electronic content that you buy, you don't receive complete ownership off, and an access to it can be denied if you don't have internet connection, effectively giving Microsoft the possibility to deny you access in certain circumstances, those possibly being server shutdowns in the future and banning. They have the full control of it, and the console is running background authentication checks. You cannot finish the initial setup without internet connection. What if you won't be able to just turn it own without connection? I don't have my home internet available for a few months now, and to think I would not be able to use purchased content is unsettling. Specifically with Xbox case, I think it's not Dev Mode availability what makes hackers less interested in it, but that the implemented security measures are hard to beat. A few attempts were made shortly after the console's release

[@Valery0p5]

12:04 lol yesterday I watched Veritasium's video on cosmic rays induced bit flips and thought "heh that would be a fun way to achieve arbitrary code execution", I didn't expect this to be a real threat, even if unrealistically expensive 😂 Edit: FIB are a not the same as cosmic rays, but we are in the same area of stubbornness

[@mr.misogyny5689]

The xbox one has more security measures than exclusives.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

ok

[@dominant2576]

Ok

[@Andziaisahax]

what's the problem with that? This justifies the mentioned razor & blade model - if you want cheap & powerful hardware, they need some guarantees.

[@sietsejohannes]

It's dumb. The vast majority of people would just pay for game pass either way, because it's lot more convenient than having to illegally download everything

[@kernaltrap]

37:00 Tony, I have some news for you.

[@ChrisAzure]

You can't do anything with the recently found "exploit" so, basically it's still undefeated

[@renakunisaki]

Just imagine if manufacturers put this much effort into securing our devices _for_ us, instead of _against_ us. But then they'd be unable to have forced obsolescence, so of course that doesn't happen. "Oh no you can't change the theme because then someone might change it to one that tricks you into clicking on things or shows stuff you don't want... also here's an ad disguised as a warning message to trick you into clicking and show you stuff you don't want."

[@Manic_Panic]

There is a lot of problems with this but we will start with the good. First of, congratulations on being the first unhackable console through the entire lifecycle as we already moved to the Series X and it's still unbreakable to this day. Second of all, the PS4 has in fact been hacked, even before this video was published. Currently, up to 7.55 jailbreak (somewhere around mid 2020) has been hacked. Updates have been keeping the last few games released after 7.55 safe otherwise the whole system would have been compromised a long time ago as the first software jailbreak released early on. It's a only a matter of time though. The Dreamcast did not die because of piracy. It died because of short sighted decisions from SEGA related to their prior consoles, the Sega CD and Saturn. On top of releasing extremely risky projects which were barely profitable like Shenmue due to how much that game costed to produce. The massive popularity of the PS2 put a final nail in the coffin for SEGA's home consoles. The lack of DRM was a small side affect. The 360, despite being hacked was still more successful than the PS3 until the tail of the generation simply because in the end, 90% of the consumers never bother to hack a console or buy a pre-hacked one. As long as it has good games, the systems will sell. The Wii and PS2 were kings of piracy and they just flew off shelves regardless, 2 of the most profitable systems ever made. The modern Xbox consoles having a dev mode now allows "hackers" to run their homebrews without admin rights, which breaks the alliance between hackers and pirates as they no longer have any incentive to break the system. It also helps the Xbox One has no exclusive games. They're all either 360/Xbone, Xbone/PC or Xbone/PS4, I think Halo 5 and Forza Motorsport 5 are the only exceptions. So it's better to just pirate on PC or PS4. This also creates another problem which thankfully Microsoft is working on fixing it. Backwards compatibility of old games. If the Xbox One had exclusives and no BC, they would never be playable again outside of that system. It would allow Ebay scammers to inflate prices of consoles with rare games installed. This is also why console hacking is important, game preservation which many companies seem to forget. The funniest thing about this is that in the end, the hacked console, the 360, was most likely more profitable due to its good library, sales numbers and popularity over the Xbox One.

[@jeckek9936]

I wonder if game companies intentionally ignore game preservation because an older/last gen games code could be used to exploit a new gen console/drm?

[@helloguy8934]

@@jeckek9936 Download speeds were way too slow at the time for piracy to be a huge problem for the dream cast in the first place.

[@TheDoctor50]

Came here to say a lot of this after watching the video; awesome comment!

[@TheDoctor50]

@@jeckek9936 I'd doubt that; depending on how the backwards compatibility is achieved, older titles can often be run in what's effectively a sandbox, isolated from the current-gen software/OS. If anything, a user might be able to hack that sandbox the way they could on the older system itself, they'd lack access to features of the current system (ex. hacking GameCube environment on Wii using GameCube hacking methods will only give you access to what the GameCube could do alone, not the rest of what the Wii has available). However, none of that is particularly relevant in the case of implementing backwards compatibility (from what I understand), as the reason for a console maker not is basically "not enough people use it to warrant the cost of making it happen." If the architecture isn't the same/ similar enough between generations (Xbox One -> Xbox Series X/S, PS4 to PS5, etc.), there's usually no choice but to create an emulator in software to support the older games, which is usually a very expensive task for the console maker, as it requires massive amounts of research and development (especially if the previous system had a very complicated architecture, like the PS3). This cost factor can be enough for a console maker to say "not enough people use this to warrant us spending this money on it." As for the point about game preservation, that usually has nothing to do with backwards compatibility in the console maker's eyes. If anything, they'd rather sell you a rerelease of a game from last generation than for you to play the last-gen copy you already have (this statement is my admittedly cynical opinion, so take it with a grain of salt). Either way, game preservation is basically not a factor at all when a console maker is deciding whether or not to implement backwards compatibility. *Note: I don't have experience in this industry, and my information is what I recall from the subject being discussed by people far more experienced and knowledgeable than me, so I'd recommend taking what I say with a grain of salt. If you want to learn more about this stuff, Modern Vintage Gamer makes fantastic videos that can tell you a lot more about all the architecture and emulation stuff. If you'd like to learn more about console makers' motives for and/or against backwards compatibility, and its history in consoles, Scott the Woz made an excellent (and funny) video on backwards compatibility that I'd definitely recommend. *Note 2: I apologize in advance for any typos or weird phrasing; I'm typing this all out on my phone at 5:50 AM *Note 3: Feel free to ask any other questions if you have them! This is fun to talk about Tl;Dr: I don't think either current-gen security or game preservation are relevant to a console maker's decision whether or not to implement backwards compatibility (Edit: Added Note 3 and Tl;Dr)

[@shanez1215]

Another aspect of the Dreamcast's issues (and honestly a major reason for piracy) is that game prices are NOT adjusted to reflect the cost of living for developing regions. When a single game is two weeks salary or more in some countries, there's a LOT more incentive for people to modchip their systems. In the US, mod chips were a thing with the PS1/2 but were largely pretty uncommon, but in Brazil? If you picked up a console used, it was more likely to have a modchip than not. Heck the Wii softmod was developed pretty early and is pretty easy, but I'd bet money that piracy was less in the US for that console than it was in other regions for consoles that needed hard mods. I hope that in our current digital era publishers would stop pricing games at such stupid levels since they don't need to import a physical item, but alas... And I agree, if it needs a hard mod and games are priced fairly, most customers aren't going to bother with hacking.

[@john_john_john]

Any Switch manufactured before July 2018 is hackable, completely able to be cracked open and play literally every game for free, forever. There's nothing Nintendo can do because it's a hardware exploit. The new revisions are about to have the same happen to them via hardmods. It's probably one of the easiest consoles to hack that has ever been sold. That being said, it's still a huge success, both the consoles and the games. The best way to use consoles to generate money is to make good consoles and good games.

[@mariokart6309]

> It's probably one of the easiest consoles to hack that has ever been sold. Have you seen the 3ds?

[@renakunisaki]

@@mariokart6309 or the Wii?

[@renakunisaki]

The hilarious part of it is that Nintendo aggressively blocks hacked consoles from the online shop. Which means for games that don't have a physical release (or that have updates after that), piracy is literally the only way to get them. Even though I only hacked mine to be able to play emulators and BotW mods, I'm literally unable to pay for some games, because they refuse to accept my money. Of course, being unable to go online with it also makes a lot of the games completely uninteresting, so I don't bother to get them anyway, pirated or not. (I'm aware it's possible to avoid being blocked, but it's not guaranteed, and there's no way to get unblocked AFAIK. It's also not worth the effort.)

[@altmindo]

Somebody should've asked what restrictions and security mechanisms are lifted for the devkits.

[@ScaredPilot]

Mostly debugging stuff you would see in typical devkits, removed or thinned down encryption and different key tree only used in dev software. On retail consoles even the memory dump is encrypted.

[@CodeAsm]

You can see they used a Devkey in that flowchart, same security, but you use a devkey to run devsigned executables. possibly a per console based devkey. still not allowing you to run retail code under devkit mode unrestricted, a seperate VM allong side a retail vm. (true devkits might have extra hardware/ram and software to help it, but still, strong protection.

[@KyuubiiModz]

the main problem nowadays is just that companys throw too much money at exploiters to not publish it or theyll just end up in a lawsuit

[@Jushwa]

Can you imagine if this much effort went into making the console fun

[@sietsejohannes]

Imagine how much cheaper consoles would be if they didn't spend all this R&D and extra hardware just to stop a handful of pirates. Imagine how many more people would buy them.

[@washnyc7906]

@@sietsejohannesKeep dreaming, if it weren't for piracy I can assure you console market would be more accessible than it is today.

[@sietsejohannes]

@@washnyc7906 That's what I said.

[@Bob-ek7sn]

Collateral Damage is comin to town (the new xb1 kernel exploit)

[@amateurwizard]

Linus Sebastian sent us!

[@platformsecuritysummit63]

Welcome! There was a November 2020 announcement that may further blur the PC-console boundary: some Xbox security techniques in this talk may appear in future Intel/AMD client SoCs via an embedded Microsoft Pluton security processor: www.techrepublic.com/article/microsofts-new-security-chip-takes-pc-protection-to-a-higher-level/

[@shayan_idk]

@@platformsecuritysummit63 ily

[@erikouwehand]

*modern vintage gamer

[@TheGlitchyMario]

@@erikouwehand same

[@cool_lizard_clips]

I find it funny how Microsoft has these HUGE security measures in the xbox one to make it unhackable and Nintendo with the Switch just said: "Yeah, let's put in a low security mode you can access with tinfoil"

[@pcnazillpg5065]

it wasn't Nintendo. Nvidia made a mistake and it went unnoticed.

[@cool_lizard_clips]

@@RedNova. you had to connect two pins on the joy-con rail and then press a certain combination of the volume and power keys

[@Andziaisahax]

@@pcnazillpg5065 this was a case of "obvious stupid mistake". The other attack vectors left untouched, just keep in mind the attack complexity/price. The most relevant example is existing by mid 2021 market of modchips that glitch cpu when verifying bootloader hash. So yes, this comment is totally true.

[@Lettuce1]

@@RedNova. i mean the wii’s security was defeated with a pair of tweezers.

[@bobsmith3838]

@@Lettuce1 or naming your horse in LoZ:TP something really long that overflows a buffer, or a similar hack involving Brawl custom stages

[@MemzDev]

Not gonna lie, looking at this now and the fact that it's possible to get zero'd SoCs I think it's possible to bypass all of this using a zero SoC and run windows on xbox

[@filanfyretracker]

since someone brought up BD+, the other issue is that you cannot tell someone you MUST have an internet connection to watch a physical media movie. All that does is give them incentive to switch to just renting them on Netflix and ripping them using a mirad of Blu Ray rippers. Hell already you need to rip BDs if you want to watch UHD on PC, because the consortium like technophobic idiots has decided only a handful of Intel CPUs with onboard video are allowed to watch 4k BDs. So if you have AMD and a discrete GPU, The only path to 4k BD is ripping the media you own(which is legal afaik). With a games console you can expect at some point it will need an update.

[@ChaosHusky]

Fuck AMD ^_^

[@bobsmith3838]

I couldn't play my digitally rented/purchased movies (from iTunes, Amazon, etc streaming) on my TV cause of whatever dumb problem with HDCP. Piracy was easier than dealing with that nonsense.

[@hphp7587]

Any idea how many xbox ones trashed because of bluray chip failure? I have one and it is stuck in e100 update loop as my drive chip got faulty.🙄 Now my xbox is waste plastic.

[@mac_cy3636]

Does anyone have an idea what the music is called? In the end notes it says it's by Peter McIsaac but I and Shazam can't find it.

[@platformsecuritysummit63]

It's titled "This Is Us Now"

[@mac_cy3636]

@@platformsecuritysummit63 Thank you very much. Greatly appreciated.

[@AndersHass]

No mention about the software developer mode which also removes insensitive to break the security since you can install your own things through developer mode as long as it is Universal Windows Platform App

[@sietsejohannes]

Which you have to pay 20 dollars for.

[@AndersHass]

@@sietsejohannes yes so they can even earn money from people who want to “mod” their Xbox, lol

[@thatssomegoodpie]

I really hope once the hardware is no longer supported and doesn’t receive any updates anymore hackers will finally be able to crack it open. Simply so they can remove the requirement of having to setup an MS account to activate the console. In my opinion that’s the biggest long term issue with current Xbox hardware.

[@rafakruczek5622]

33:05 "It's always about a boot" I heard that there are many points of entry when console is working. It was about shaders ( xbox 360), comumunication with online serwer ( gamecube?), reading icons, sounds and messeges (ds, 3ds wii ) IIRC...

[@renakunisaki]

Yeah, early GameCube hacks took advantage of an insecure server connection.

[@yjk_ch]

It is true that there might be other points where physical attack can occur, But everything else you mentioned is about abusing software bugs and weak points, not physical attacks. Also remember that the initial boot process is the root of the trust. If initial boot process can be attacked, you can load anything you want.

[@lordeilluminati]

but for piracy he is not wrong, many times the boot process was used to figure out how to run unsigned code. All modchips until that time did this.

[@victorsegoviapalacios4710]

In the Windows/PC scenario, the user is also the attacker, many of them will also like to "hack" the platform, and the Software that runs on it, and execute pirated code as an example; the difference is that in the Windows Ecosystem (e.g. Win32), Microsoft might help the Software vendors to secure their Software, but that is not its primary function; Windows is an "open" platform where Software "Trusted Execution" (not talking about malicious code protection or OS security, that is on MS) relies more on the Software provider itself that on MS (remember, you don't license access to the Win32 platform). On the Xbox MS is the guarantor of the trustfulness of the platform, where the Software Providers gain access via a "Publisher License".

[@alexanderthegreat8156]

I think the main difference is when you hack a console, is because you're looking to obtain a benefit for yourself like free games, homebrew etc. In windows, you can access all thoose thing without breaking the system security. That's why most hacks are ment to benefit others, and no one wants to get their credit card or bank account information to be stolen. I think that's the reason why he said that the PC user usually is interested to work together with Microsoft in order to keep windows secure.

[@amarioguy]

in the case of the general purpose computer, Microsoft isn't using a razor/razor blade model, they're using a licensing model to get an return on investment on desktop Windows (OEM licenses are very profitable) Microsoft's PC dominance is reliant on users running what they want, and the firmware on PCs has to be the same way as well, users must be able to run what they want since it's a *general purpose* computer and not an embedded device. Microsoft isn't ever going to win a gamble on locking down the general purpose PC Xbox-style (RT tried and failed so hard that it cost the company big time). so Microsoft considers the PC owner a good guy because running software with user consent is what Microsoft considers "good" in the scope of Windows desktop

[@ENNEN420]

If they hadn't put an easily accessible dev mode on the Xbox, people would have had an exploit made by now even if it's a 30 wire mod that requires drilling the CPU and grinding 3 layers of the motherboard. Actual the only based thing MS ever did.

[@advance9343]

I have a hacked Xbox 360, Ps2, ps3, psp, ps vita, wii, ds, 3ds and switch. If my device could be havked, i did it. But i salute Microsoft on their succes in securing the xbox one.

[@johnnyhun1]

you know that switch is non hackable? I mean the V2 still unhacked, so I wouldn't call it success. Also a very big struggle to play pirated games with multiple program usage at every bootup for the V1. PS4 is also hackable, but still no permanent cfw, so i wouldn't call it a success either. Also, PSP Street didnt have permanent cfw for many many years, and I think last years Infinity released a permanent patch, so that became a success, but if I recall correctly the PSP Go is still not hacked.

[@HUB594]

@@johnnyhun1 ps4 is just fine without a cfw takes like 15 sec to jailbreak and you can also run linux OS using 5gb ram and install emulators how is that not a success? lol

[@wchill1337]

@@johnnyhun1 switch v2 has been hackable for a while with a modchip.

[@johnnyhun1]

@@wchill1337 but that is not for the average persons, requires disassembly and soldering and you can fuk up your switch easily so technically its still unhackable. Also the supply for that modchip is really low

[@danielyoung_]

​@@johnnyhun1 there's plenty of chips available for it, especially on aliexpress. some are even open source based on the raspberry pi. Still, most average people who own hardmodded consoles aren't modding them themselves. Many people and services would mod a console or sell one premodded for far less than the console price itself + 10 games.

[@overlordKrunK]

Did anyone catch the second question?

[@KenTWOu]

The second question was repeated at 46:37

[@orlyfrank1419]

Did you buy any chance go to UC Berkeley in late 70's?

[@kidkool27]

His LinkedIn says no

[@AlvinLee007]

He's one of the good guys.

[@Mattia_98]

It's scary how they talk about this like it's a good thing. "Yay look at us and all the things we implemented so our hardware can become e-waste in 10 years and be unrepairable and unhackable"

[@Mattia_98]

@@oo--7714 ????????????????????????? If the games are good and the service is good people will spend money and not pirate. This is not about piracy but about doing what you want with your own hardware, and companies like Microsoft prevent you from using your own hardware. Imagine buying a car but you are only allowed to drive to some select places that the manufacturer chooses. And the company does everything it can from preventing you to unlock you own car you bought so you can drive wherever you want (and they brag about it, exhibit 1, this video). Perfect example of companies allowing you to use your own hardware is Valve with the SteamDeck (or any standard PC for that matter). Virtually no limitations or locks are put on you, you can do whatever you want with it. Only the Steam DRM is installed, but you are not forced to use Steam. I don't get why people will bootlick for companies that hate their customers.

[@djmips]

8:43 - Tony Chen gets paid top dollars.

[@pakigraw]

Please, try to use Pluton on the Series consoles to "trust" the disc drive, while encrypted by the SoC, so we can play with our disc offline without checking anything online, and maybe play all the X360 games (except bad emulation perfomance) because the license is on the disc.. Please, work on this, don't carry this bad XOne feature.. it's extremely important for the future too, Thanks.

[@renanrodrigues1255]

How can someone buy now Forza Motorsport 5 + DLCs and forza horozion 2 (xbox one ver) + DLCs?

[@TheCenturyPleyades]

I came here from the Kakmikaze hack thanks to MVG 😅

[@user-zc3ec2fb3l]

Is that true about why the dreamcast died?

[@ihavenoideas5844]

No, it died because Sega made a lot of stupid decisions

[@TheBroz]

It was a factor but the situation was a lot more complex than that. Piracy was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

[@gao124]

The only hackable is your terms of law. You take away the software version control rights. That maybe illegal in some countries.

[@SamualN]

8:44 no?

[@conkerconk3]

look who cant take a joke :-)

[@SamualN]

@@conkerconk3 yeah but I bet this is also their unironic opinion

[@michael_yoc]

You're here because of Linus, aren't you?

[@DrazV2]

I am, and now I'm extremely curious to learn more about this topic.

[@FarmYardGaming]

Yup.

[@isaiahmacadam]

100%

[@forsyth5793]

Yep

[@odytrice]

Oh Yeah

[@Paulkjoss]

Play at 1.5X - try not to notice the ‘UM’s and ‘AH’s - try not to start rapping to them

[@boop53]

I never hacked a console which wasn’t made by nintendo. But I’ve hacked a DSi, Wii, WiiU and 3DS

[@northox]

MS should sell this platform to cloud provider so we can load trusted code without having to trust the provider.

[@victorsegoviapalacios4710]

Yeah, like Google

[@xmine08]

Already exists, without Microsoft. But it costs performance so cloud providers don't want to. And cloud computing is expensive anyway.

[@northox]

@@xmine08 There's no performance impact at all. Cloud providers are already offering fully hardware accelerated virtualized envs.

[@xmine08]

@@northox there's still a loss of 1-3%, depending on the work load more. You can say that you don't care about that, but in practice there is a loss.

[@northox]

@@xmine08 what's taking 1-3%? What, specifically are you talking about? Running within a virtual env?

[@jordvanlennep5811]

For a hacker is it what he can hack not however he hacked!?!

[@offspringfan89]

MVG brought me here.

[@enriqueyang]

U need to allow us xbox one x user to install windows in it in a few years time. It is still a very powerful machine to run Windows

[@AurumFaber]

No, it won't be.

[@filleswe91]

Maybe after it's life cycle, when the Xbox Live servers are getting shut down and they can't profit from the platform anymore.

[@AurumFaber]

@@filleswe91 xbox will never be let go.

[@filleswe91]

@@AurumFaber As with everything in the world of business , if something is not profitable, you shut down it to not build up debt. That's how the adult world works.

[@Mike43837]

I don't have the patients to do all that lol I rather have a physical copy

[@Reblebro4200]

40:50 You litery

[@michaelsteffes6325]

now alot more of the features of the xbox one and next gen make sense, not playing games offline, not being able to play games unless youre logged in etc, just makes the typical user deal with more issues with game ownership

[@KingMayuke]

it'll happen eventually

[@DrTune]

Possibly not. I know it seems like "it should happen sooner or later" but this talk illustrates the years of learning and care put into preventing piracy (regardless of opinion as to whether that's cool or not cool, just fact). The '360 [main cpu, not optical drive] was hard as nails, and - as this guy is generous enough to explain - MS learned a lot from that. They did an expert job on the One.

[@ChrisAzure]

With more powerful CPU and GPU plus Dev Mode, there's no need to hack anything.

[@XGreenThumb]

2 years later... I wonder why Microsoft enforced TPM 2.0 with Windows 11 when it has (according to them) no security advantage against hardware attacks.

[@soggytoast111]

Key word - HARDWARE. The main threat to PCs are software attacks, not hardware. The hacker isn't going to break into your home, steal your computer, and dissect it on his workbench to steal your data. He's going to attack you through the network. TPM is an advantage here because even if the hacker is trying to exfiltrate data through the software over a network, the TPM device offers extra layers of encryption to defeat him. With game consoles the threat is entirely different. The hacker is the person who owns the device. He definitely is going to be dropping $400 to take one off the shelf and dissect it. TPM isn't good enough here because the hacker has direct access to modify the TPM device.

[@coolcatjk30]

Also he mentions that this is all from the perspective of 2013 when all this was being developed. Back in 2013 tpm was a separate chip. Now it's built in to the CPU directly, and if this was available back in 2013 I think they would have maybe used it. But it wasn't so they didn't trust it.

[@XGreenThumb]

@@coolcatjk30 how does the CPU communicate with the TPM chip next to it? Is it still unencrypted via the good old LPC Bus?

[@1ute]

Hi Linus

[@Bob-ek7sn]

Hardware exploit on xbox one and series x/s and one decrypted dumps? We stay winning

[@SionynJones]

Piracy did not kill sega bad decisions and the PlayStation were to blame. What did it for Sega was misleading devs and publishers about the Saturn, devs and publishers had a great distrusted Sega for the blunder that was releasing the Saturn soon after the 32X. And the Saturn's surprise release date didn't help matters. 3rd party support was the big killer. Let alone the complicated nature developing for Saturn compared to ease of developing for the PlayStation. Microsoft entering the game didn't help either this was make or brake for Sony. Piracy was just as bad on PS2, XBox and PC as it was on Dreamcast, but when the latter doesn’t sell enough consoles and you simply don’t have the 3rd party support, that is when your console dies

[@OugaBoogaShockwave]

lol, guy says $60 games. Try more like $150+ for DLC included.

[@ChaosHusky]

Yeah, someone should tell him the PS4 has been cracked several times.. And as many people have said, give us modders what we want (run homebrew and emulators) and nobody ends up helping the inevitable piracy once a system is cracked.. Not everyone wants to do that. Although i must admit, whilst i'm a PCMR type, i'd rather have an Xbox over a Playstation, they're just better... BUT i find myself quite bored by my Xbox as i can't tinker with it so much, whereas i can with the PS4! If i could get a read-out of how much RAM was being used and where, SoC temperature etc i'd be happier lol

[@DrewBrewsx]

you are missing the point they don't care about the homebrew they care about modding online like the jtag reset glitch / ps3/360 and consoles after that aren't capable of modding online or we would see alot of modded lobbies and such so its still a Win for them they didn't fail.

[@Kadori328]

You fool now know the secrets ahahhaha

[@user-ec6kt2fg7m]

Came from Lienus.

[@jedediahreaver210]

This is not gonna age well in the next week

[@user-rc4zk8ge1g]

So much effort, all put into treating user as a criminal.

[@zanityplays]

They have to. The number one rule of security is to never trust client side and if a jailbreak comes out they'll lose money

[@wuzzlewuhzzle]

In other words, how you have good security

[@amarioguy]

First, treating the user as a criminal implicitly means not allowing them to run code that they want (dev mode and relaxed dev kit rules allow this so by this definition users are not treated as criminals). The second thing to realize is that for game consoles most profits are made from games and any risk of piracy from a profit perspective has to be mitigated. I understand wanting to run whatever code you want at whatever level you want, that’s something I wholeheartedly support but the risk of piracy is simply too high for a game console to be that vessel to run that code.

[@arnox4554]

@@amarioguy Pretty much. Ultimately, consoles are not PCs, nor should they try to be. If you wanna run whatever you wanna run with total and complete freedom, then a PC is for you. A console is meant to be a very convenient media center, basically.

[@renakunisaki]

You know your business model is good when it revolves around treating the consumer and owner as the badguy.

[@Osama-KIN_TMZ01]

Mfs... I really want a jtag/rgh type of modding for Xbox One... It probably could happen a few years after Series X launch.

[@Osama-KIN_TMZ01]

@@MiguelAviles175 same, that would be genuinely amazing. That's why I love my jailbroken PS4, because I can play both PS1 and PS2 games with official emulation, and even thousands of other classic platforms with Homebrew. But sadly you need to hack the system. I don't know won't they just make official accessible emulators in PS5 and Series X and keep updating them through community support.

[@akj7]

@@Osama-KIN_TMZ01 Yeah, but allowing emulating old games will break the remastered-remake cash loop.

[@worroSfOretsevraH]

Develop and build a cheap game disk copying device, and make the chinese mass manufacture it.

[@CodeAsm]

Good luck, you need a chinese manufacturer that is able to press Bluerays, and good luck getting a master image. Assuming they took lessons from the OG xbox and 360 era discs, you wont be able to just pop the disc in a PC and copy the disc, TOC being corrupt, security sectors, tricks with the MTK DSP. its been 6 years and where are the cheap street copy Xbox one discs ?

[@renakunisaki]

I wonder how much it would cost to do a Kamikaze-like attack if you already had the tools? Enough that you could make a business out of doing it? The speaker talks about how people don't want to do all this effort and spend $600 on a mod, but most people don't - they pay someone else to do it. $600 isn't much if you can reuse it.

[@rico993]

Not possible. Disk content is encrypted using BD ROM Mark, explained here: www.cdrinfo.com/d7/content/blu-ray-disc-marking-system-explained The tech for this is tightly controlled and only licensed to a select number of corporate manufacturers. And even if you were somehow able to get your hand on the tech, you would still need a way to parse out the encrypted digital signature imprinted on the disk and its exact physical position, which is essentially impossible without the master image and tooling used to create authentic disks.

[@mvpheat]

Instead of focusing on security, they should have focused more on exclusives. And that is why I never got an xbox one.

[@AurumFaber]

What's a console without security?

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

@@AurumFaber a money drain

[@wishiniwasfishin6960]

In 2022 there is still "god" on many games on the Xbox One in online multiplayer so you failed there

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

Not because of the xbox hardware or software though the xbox one still hasn't been hacked

[@DrJams]

Excellent talk... but I still hope it gets hacked.

[@AdrianDX]

Dreamcast died because of piracy? Dreamcast died because; 10. Sega/Mega CD 9. Sega Neptune 8. The 32X 7. Sega's lack of US Saturn support 6. The price 5. EA pulling out 4. Lack of third party support 3. Poor advertisement 2. It was released way ahead of its time. Online was there, but not well developed enough 1. The PS2 and it's DVD support But nice try.. Nice try.. Piracy was of the lesser problems that the blue swirl faced. I knew a few people who were lucky enough to own one back in the day, and none of them pirated DC games. Myself I didn't even know it was possible until I picked one up in Japan in 2007. And I never see any of them for sale with a big folder of burnt games. Which is something you'll see every now and then with the PS1. Probably 50% of everyone I knew that had a PS1 had a chip installed in it.

[@yununu6990]

shenmue failed, so no shenmue 3 4 5, if it's doing good like monster hunter, pokemon, gta5, and call of duty, sega will want to make new shenmue games, weird thing is sega always bad at selling things - saturn is a mess, game gear failed, dreamcast also not better than saturn. sony and nintendo are better than sega at selling both hardware and software. I'm sure sega financial is not good /deeply in debt at that time. Also no good investor, xbox also failed, but microsoft - bill gates is a good investor and keep spending money even if xbox is failed. And no free to play games like pubg or fortnite to help dreamcast making more money for sega.

[@megapro1725]

Nintendo switch was hacked right after release, and it is successful console

[@CodeAsm]

relative opinions, all DC owners I knew back then knew about piracy and had some copied games. it probably relates to how connected said friends where, here we mostly had good internet connections or friends with burners anyway. if youd ask us back then, piracy would have killed the DC. But, like you state, it where multiple factors, some bigger than others. Microsoft had contact with Sega, and even made a few deals with sega to do collabs. The Sega Chihiro arcade console is using a Xbox motherboard, as their older Naomi based systems where getting old. Sega probably talked to MS about protection and DRM things, and thats probably ALSO why the original xbox had "more" security (altho it ended up implemented wrong or poorly, but just well enough to get a foot in everyones livingroom and enough games to survive, also, ethernet + hdd)

[@renakunisaki]

Blue swirl? Wasn't it orange?

[@AdrianDX]

@@renakunisaki Not in PAL territories :) I think it’s a semi-common nickname for it all over though. There’s an old fansite for the Dreamcast called Blueswirl. I’m pretty sure there’s a YT channel these days and I think it refers to both the blue swirl logo and to Sonic.

[@sonon]

Kamikaze hack lol 神風特攻から取ったのか。 センス良いなー(笑)

[@MADagain]

That's great and all... but why does Xbox One require both HDMI ports to display and run 5.1 surround sound? When every other console on the market only needs one?

[@halofreak1990]

It doesn't? The second HDMI port is an _input_ for use with a set-top TV box.

[@wowimoldaf]

41:37 so fuckin gold. "industry is full of insecure designs we cannot follow" asians brain numba wan

[@1ute]

lol true

[@renakunisaki]

How many of those designs came from Microsoft?

[@Mr_X_andtheboys]

Make an underpowered console and implement horrendous DRM policies and an always online requirement.

[@NC___]

They already had the best anti-piracy measure in-place for the Xbox One/Series consoles: simply release games that no one wants to play and the idea of pirating those games goes right out the window. A lot of wasted time, money, and effort on Microsoft's part... cool talk though, thank you Mr. Chen

[@yoshi314]

38:58 - a naiiver sentence has never been spoken so far.

[@elliottf313]

He was right

[@sf8262]

That's why the boot rom should be the target, since thats the one partition that can be updated

[@CycloneXCryy]

lol just wait ;) i love my team.

[@griffenatekevinbacon]

5 months and nothing

[@Azazel010101]

@@griffenatekevinbacon Let's see in 5 years.

[@andrewwiley5454]

Welp, Xbox One is obsolete now. How's that hack going?

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

@@griffenatekevinbacon been 2 years now almost 3 really

[@ihavenoideas5844]

3 years since the Series X came out, still unhackable

[@contytub]

This didn't aged well ... people hacked the online games anyway and i still can't play my official backups or remove the white list for backwards compatibility ... i would love a homebrew xbox one s with backup capability

[@ChrisAzure]

What? If you are referring to crossplay games then this indeed aged very good, in fact its gonna keep aging because this video its about console security, not about crossplay games. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@contytub]

@@ChrisAzure they keep saying that they have a closed sistem to keep online gaming free of hacks ... people hacked online games ... they play with mods and hacks on official consoles. They intercept and modify the content sent and received by the console using a pc in the middle ... so why even bother now .

[@ChrisAzure]

@@contytub What? I dont knwo where you read get that from but that its basically imposible as the Windows OS and the game are two separated VM's and second there's nothing you can do over the network to modify anything in game, what you describe is a men in middle attack and Xbox One its not vulnerable to that.

[@contytub]

@@ChrisAzure not the xbox itself but the games ... search youtube ... cheats for xbox one online games ...

[@ChrisAzure]

@@contytub if you believe that, you would also believe that you can hack the console with a USB drive...the moment that you intercept the connection between Xbox console and Xbox Live, you get disconnected, if you try to route Xbox Live trafic through your PC you'll not be able to connect. The only way to cheat on Xbox Live its on PC.

[@yoshi314]

something tells me xbox one is getting hacked in a few weeks, just to prove a point.

[@sf8262]

I like Microsoft but I also wanna see it get hacked since they're cocky enough to release this info haha

[@AurumFaber]

Not gonna happen any time soon.

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

Been a few years its ended its life cycle and still no hack

[@TheBroz]

@@sf8262’cocky enough’ Wow, you know fuck all about the security community.

[@enriqueyang]

But is this the reason why original xbox one run so badly at less than 1080 on most games lol. Too much security n slows everything down.

[@kevinliu6920]

Probably not. Most of the security features he talked about are baked in to the hardware (SoC), and hardware can encrypt and decrypt at a blazingly fast speed. The latency might suffer several cycles (which is trivial considering the SoC's clock speed), but the throughput should be roughly the same. The hypervisor (virtual machines) he talked about may also add some overhead to decryption, but the effect should also be minimal since a lot of virtualization functionalities are built into the CPU as well. The hypervisor used in Xbox is also a stripped down version compared to the one on Windows. Compared to these security features, I believe the memory configuration of the original Xbox One is instead why it struggles to run games at 1080p. The Xbox One has 8GB of DDR3 RAM with bandwidth around 68.26 GB/s while the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM with bandwidth of roughly 176 GB/s. To alleviate the effect of this slow memory, Microsoft added 32 MB of high-speed eSRAM (bandwidth 218 GB/s) to the system as a cache. The problem is, the developers now would need to optimize their games for this additional layer of cache, and the RAM could easily become a bottleneck on Xbox one. Microsoft later ditched the eSRAM layer in Xbox One X in favor of using only 12GB of GDDR5 RAM. This should also partially prove this theory.

[@alexalcalaortiz368]

i love the "developer mode is why not pirated!!!" cope that gets repeated on all comment sections related to xbox one security measures

[@darkguardian1314]

So, we the XBOX customers are the attackers. We're paying for the console and the software, XBOX Live Gold, the internet access and we get treated like crap with suspensions and bans by Microsoft. Not just for gaming but email and other services like Office. I came here after seeing a clip on Overlord Gaming to see if what I heard was true and it is. 🥺 I'm done....I quit gaming.

[@umbrellacorp6918]

For me the xbox one ps4 is the last console generation anyway. All i wanted is to play the game, not download, install and update for hours., or buy a game in dozen pieces. I dont want to even log in. With retro arch and softmodding previous consoles, you got 100.000+ games to choose from. Want to fight back these multi billion dollar data thief parasites, skip a generation of consoles, let them feel it financial and they`ll behave again. You`re the enemy of the people, not the consumer .

[@CodeAsm]

Very noble, and i would agree. but as a adult now (grown up with the OG xbox), and software engineer, i see where they come from. MS was happy their original xbox was kinda hacked (not too soon like DC), it helped their place and show what ppl wanted. but Game publishers and studios dont want their art to be stolen. I think what you actually want is a different world where paying an artist or creator differently. what MS basicly is doing is what STEAM is doing, sell you a key and right to run a program Physical ownership is sadly dead.

[@FNLNFNLN]

@@CodeAsm Legal physical ownership is dead.

[@CodeAsm]

@@FNLNFNLN true. We borrow equipment, and it's useless after 20 year's. (Unless games don't require online servers)

[@renakunisaki]

@@CodeAsm where are you getting stuff that lasts 20 whole years!?

[@AurumFaber]

@@CodeAsm I doubt that you will get any PC or console to last twenty years with consistent use.

[@toffeeFairy]

Interesting but well the topic itself feels a bit useless

[@Vaaaaadim]

I don't see why it would be useless. The whole point is to prevent piracy and cheating in games, by making it difficult for individuals to hack their consoles. And this presentation was to show how Microsoft tackled this problem. Its useful towards Microsoft's bottom line. Pirated games means less money for Microsoft and the studios that make the games. Consoles follow the razor + razor-blades business model, they make little or even lose money selling the consoles, and make up for it from the games being sold which have a better profit margin. Which makes it even more important for piracy to be prevented. Moreover, if games could easily be pirated for an Xbox console, then game developers are less inclined to develop games for that console.

[@toffeeFairy]

@@Vaaaaadim Just check the attach rate of the dreamcast, if piracy was such a problem it wouldn't have such a high attach rate after just 3 years. Also people that pirate things are quite often spending with the most on that medium. Basically piracy has never been proven to hurt the bottom line of a video game company. With today's mass of multiplayer games and the really awesome packing of yesteryear, the only reason to pirate is if you don't want to support a dev or if you are unsure whether or not you should buy something. By useless i mean the problem they solved was never proven to be a problem in the first place. Also as others mentioned, if you want to pirate xBox games, you can do that on your pc instead. Which doesn't diminish the awesome work that they did, just in my opinion the management wasted a ton of money. Just look at gog, they give you a simple .exe anybody can run, meaning you can share it with everyone, but if even so games that release on their still sell millions of copies. Just look at cyberpunk s sales figures

[@Vaaaaadim]

@@toffeeFairy Fair enough, you're right. I couldn't give you a historical example of piracy having a net negative effect.

[@FNLNFNLN]

tl;dr you don't own your consoles, and microsoft deliberately generates more e-waste rather than allow repairs.

[@lyraspartan]

You also don't own the games if you pirate. How ironic

[@FNLNFNLN]

@@lyraspartan Only if you equate legal ownership with actual ownership.

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

@@FNLNFNLN if I point a gun at someone shoot them take their car do I own that car The same can be said if I break my console maliciously download illegal files and run them without permission do I own those files? My answer is possession does not mean ownership if you steal something like a car or a game you possess it but do not own it. If you buy it you own it

[@jpuc5568]

the worst system i have ever owned

[@Terminal10]

Guess who has a harder time? People who try to upload pirated games, they have to attack the CPU, but with all the security being done, I'm very doubtful that they will have an easy time trying to pirate a game.

[@Doganderboss]

What???

[@Terminal10]

@@Doganderboss you won't understand

[@andrewwiley5454]

​@@Doganderboss I think I can restate this: Piracy really has two steps: - getting a copy of a game outside of the intended store/platform - running that game on a suitable PC/console/device In the PC world, the first step is trivial because just about anyone can put any game onto bittorrent. That means conventional DRM and piracy-control measures have generally focused on the second step by adding code to figure out whether you should be running a game or not. On Xbox One, encrypting the storage and RAM with keys that are never available to software means just extracting a copy of the game that others could possibly run is very difficult and doesn't seem to have been achieved. That's interesting because it's different than what anyone has attempted before - it's kind of crazy that there might be millions of Blu-Ray disks containing the latest Call of Duty, but only an Xbox One can actually decrypt and play the game on that disk and no one has found a way to get a copy of the game that the Xbox is running while it's running it.

[@tranceparadox6135]

Wow all this energy spent keeping technology from being used how people want. Why not gamify a mutual goal, or enable would be developers enable thier own dev mode and fuel the kind of fire you Do want, identify the case scenerio of who is a potential advisary and encourage them to be your partner in content creation, expansion, etc. Be more like windows and view your users not as your enemy but as your content curator and creator. Otherwise the armistice will continuously become more hostile and people will be spending thier energy to destroy and circumvent instead of create and share.. Believe in your users and use smart criteria to shape the behavior you want. Plenty of walls and rules in the world, maybe if people had the right tools including content creation their energies would find a healthier outlet. You cannot play monopoly and expect no attacks. Give and you will recieve

[@ilove2learn783]

They can do that or multiply the price by a factor of at least 2 (why buy a console then?). He was very clear at the beginning. You do that or you're out of business.

[@sf8262]

@@ilove2learn783 piracy still has yet to be shown to lower sales, and it may even increase sales despite being counterintuitive

[@AurumFaber]

Dev mode is a thing...

[@andrewwiley5454]

No amount of "mutual goals" will stop people from wanting to aimbot and cheat in Call of Duty. If you want a direct example, take a look over at Team Fortress 2.

[@TylerMarkRichardson]

@@sf8262 the problem is company's don't make or don't get much from sales its game sales where they make money doesn't matter how many xboxs you sell if there all hacked you make nothing