Guild Wars 2 Theory Spotlight: The Pale Tree Is A Dragon

[@deykat9948]

funny how accurate this was. Sylvari are created by the elder dragon Mordremoth and were designed to serve him.

[@bojan6609]

Even funnier when you get to 2024 and find out she is a demon after all

[@BiffManly]

Based on the new information with Scarlett and her leylines, I think the Sylvari were meant to be Mordremoth's minions. However, the Pale Tree and the Sylvari were influenced by Ventari's tablet in the time they were growing. The Nightmare is Mordremoth's will attempting to reassert itself over the teachings of Ventari, hence the Nightmare Court. When Scarlett looked beyond the Dream, she saw the true source of Nightmare, and fell back into the service of her intended master, aiding his awakening.

[@JoeyBower]

This. /Thread

[@BiffManly]

Joey Bower Feel free to copy-paste it wherever you want, we'll know in a few days.

[@FieryFlamingFajitas]

This theory makes the most sense to me

[@Dabuddah]

Well you were right 😂

[@lorrainemarrie7829]

Yeah I can see that..But I still want to believe that Sylvari are their own beings. Capable of doing whatever they want, being free and having hope and justice.. XD

[@creativedesignation7880]

This theory explained more to me about the relationship between the Sylvari, Modremoth, The Pale Tree, Ventari and the Nightmare Court than actually playing through HoT did...

[@Zerogrifter]

When stuff like this is collaborated by fans it sincerely feels like we, the internet users, are the inspiration for the skritt. We rapidly bounce ideas off one another until it forms something awesome like this theory and could have possibly figured a major story arc with a minimal amount of clues.

[@Maethendias]

listening to that in 2017 is actually blowing my mind how close all these theories became to the reality of the game

[@stormrunner89]

Innnteresting. Maybe the Pale tree is like Glint. A rogue ex-liutenant of Mordremoth that was affected by the Tablet.

[@aid4nski215]

well... your kinda right

[@JoshSweetvale]

@@aid4nski215 Entirely.

[@Sankaritarina89]

holy shit ! you must be a prophet ! everything you mention makes perfect sense... it was actually in plain sight all the time

[@luckypeanut9943]

huh, watching this all the way in 2023 and I'm having such a nice giggle cheers mate 🍻

[@edidaemon]

If the writers actually go for this story and the characters we play as sylvari turn out to be minions of a force they try to fight against, it would be such an amazing twist. It would redefine storytelling in MMOs because, as far as I know, no one has actually done this before.

[@kilowhiskey3130]

It's always a pleasure to come back and rewatch old theories and see where WP was on the same wavelength as the developers and when he wasn't...at least not yet! :D Love all the content, both old and new!

[@TaguianBassment]

This just popped on my recommended... Kind of impressive how right on the money this was

[@jessiamedeiros4294]

Amazing how spot on this was back then!

[@krisseyxoxo1]

Gosh how right you were. Sylavri are the minions of Mordremoth.

[@MyZk089]

Was not really alone about this theory :P Many of us players figured this cuz of the dream of the dragon.

[@blacksunshine4679]

It's crazy how on point you are WP! Been watching all your "mystery" videos and it's amazing how attuned you are to the lore.

[@xCorpsemourne]

God, The Sylvari are really a fascinating race to me. The idea that the Sylvari are connected to an Elder Dragon - namely the Jungle one (forgot his name) - is really an interesting idea. Within the Brisban Wildlands is a Sylvari named Malyck, and he is NOT of the Pale Tree. In fact, the entire idea of The Dream is a foreign concept to him. The Pale tree could be like Glint in that she turned on whatever dragon created her - I feel like it is very possible. So many ideas regarding them~

[@TooManyBukkitz]

Whoa... You did this 4 years ago. FOUR. 😳 Dang! 👍

[@WoodenPotatoes]

Jesus, don't remind me!

[@skyerenard8939]

I so love watching your older videos especially when new things are out especially the season 2 living world story.

[@spoonstube]

This was a really interesting video WP! Your videos on lore are the only reason I've not only been able to take my mind off of waiting for the release but also have gotten me really interested in the story of Guild Wars. Please keep it up!

[@therealr0bert]

One criticism I have is that the dragon in the dream is said to be a vision for your Wyld Hunt, which is assumed to be to kill an elder dragon. However this is an interesting theory, and I've always been curious as to why Sylvari showed up in the same time frame as the elder dragons. I do believe they are connected, but my guess is that they are the champions of Tyri itself, that they are meant to fight the dragons to stop complete destruction. It could be similar to the dwarves taking the rite. This could explain why the old Sylvari are gone now. Perhaps they have to sacrifice their entire race to drive off the elder dragons to create the period of time where the dragons are asleep.

[@lynxtar1]

This series has so much intrigue for me. I didn't play the first game and this series has added so much value to the things I see in the game and the little side conversations going on all around Tyria. I might even have to pick up the books. Thank you very much for the time and effort it took to make these and please keep them coming, I will keep liking them.

[@BetaraptorLP]

Let's all appreciate the fact that this video was released literally right after GW2 itself... Well, let's wait another 8 years and see whether we'll kill them all

[@Entropic_Fate]

Well mordremoth could have created the pale tree as a seed, intending to use it once it woke up until the human found it by accident and planted it while ventari used the tablet to change the tree and make it into what it is today. plus scarlet said she saw the source of the nightmare and her intention after that was to awake mordremoth. it's starting to seem pretty plausible and also a very unique story line so I hope ANet doesn't abandon this idea it could make a good conflict for a sylvari character trying to struggle between evil and good.

[@roinats]

I just wanted to thank you WP for your lets play, few months ago I wanted to revisit GW1, finish EotN and i finaly bought Faction. That said i was looking for some walkthrough and came across one of your videos and thought why not try to know more about the world, i played it from very first episode and yesterday finished it with dungeon series. I almost never watched your videos, they were going in background of my GW1. Your countless hours are of great worth for me. Cheers,

[@Oniphire]

Great job as always, WP. Many times in other vids you briefly mention events from the first game you loved or theories you have come up with or heard about, but you don't usually go into detail about them, so I'd love more vids like these where you do discuss them at length.

[@GgGTeMpLaR]

so cool that this turned out right

[@t0m0san]

I really hope this theory proves true, because I like the concept and the possibities of how the story could pan out. Its probably something we won't see for many years to come though

[@skywardbear9238]

i truly enjoy your reasoning and the way you voice all doubts and thoughts on the subjects. :) good job!

[@Paethos28]

Just wow, i hope they have thought so deeply and created these amazing links between the lore and the new additions to the guild wars universe. More of this!!

[@MrKhrain]

Really enjoyed this video! The room to speculate about is huge with the Sylvari and I like that. I'd like to see more videos like this. Keep it up! (:

[@MrBountz]

I think Theory Spotlights are the best idea you've come out with WP, please make more ! I love them!

[@TrayC668]

Enjoyed your theory very much, and reading the responses most are very interesting as well. Seeing whats coming so far in the Thorns expans i'd said you where very close to what the devs have planned. keep up with the vids enjoy them a lot.

[@twistedshapeshifter]

omg when i say the title of this the first thing i thought was holy shit he was right! honestly you made this vid like what a day or 2 after gw2 release and you already made a vid on how sylvari are dragon/dragon spawn

[@TheSujis]

Keep the Lore vids coming up. It's nice to know the world you play in on a deeper level.

[@luckypeanut9943]

Huh, with how much jormag ended up being afraid of primordus cuz of their opposing magics, would be a great strategy for mordremoth to want zhaitan dead

[@tokshen]

This was a fantastic video! I really hope you do more like this down the road.

[@kiksyame1481]

Watching this in 2021 after 'Mysteries' series comeback and after playing over 1200 hours in past 6 years is surreal :)

[@SirMufalmar]

This could be a fucking book and it would be epic.

[@lashonawaldmeister1111]

As we learnt about in the recent living story there are other dragons than the elder dragons, but serve the elder ones, such as glint. So maybe the pale tree was a dragon just like glint, but the same way glint changed and realized that maybye the races of tyria aren´t her enemys and ended up heling them, the pale tree changed because of the ventari tablet and is now doing what glint did before: help the other races of tyria against the elder dragons. And just like the pale tree has seeds and therefor can reproduce glint had her eggs, so that doesnt seem to be a problem for this theory...

[@SawyerAnderson]

WoodenPotatoes I like your theory a lot, and even kind of came up with it as you were talking (I saw the Mordremoth video first). But there is another one that came to mind. You say that the elder dragons are mindless forces like hurricanes, but also have a lot of hate and anger associated with them. Those are some pretty strong emotions, with some equally strong opposites. Could there be a whole other group of elder dragons that appose the "evil" ones? Like a YinYang kind of deal. Could the "good" dragons actually be what the primitive people called the 6 gods?

[@theblackdeath4398]

Well, definitely not the six gods, since the six gods are not a natural and native force of Tyria, like the Elder Dragons. The six gods are transcendent beings that potentially are a lot older than Tyria and are not native to its systems, like the Elder Dragons, who are associated with the Mists. I do like the idea that in opposition to the Elder Dragons that want to destroy, there are much more subtle Elder Dragons that oppose them, since balance is very big concept on Tyria.

[@JoshSweetvale]

CUE SOO-WON

[@cyanidematt]

PLEASE do more spotlights... this was an awesome video that has totally gotten me excited over the evolution of the guild wars story. I was enjoying this speculation so much that I decided to change my main to a sylvari for the possible chance to play as possible minion to a possible champion and for the chance to fight the elder nature dragon. (kind feels like I'd be fighting my god xD). So yeah.. more spotlights... excellent potential series.

[@melvoid01]

Excellent vid, I myself had been thinking along these lines and if it does pan out anywhere near your proposed storyline arc it will indeed open up a whole load of possibilities story wise. And yes keep doing stuff like this when you can as its a very different way to approach the game and i do like a bit of lore me.

[@henriktre]

you seem to me like a historian talking about historical events and theories, but in GW2, really love these videos and it makes me like this game even more! good job dude!

[@tjdvdf]

Very nice video! It gives me a lot to think about, since I love the lore in this game and was planning on playing as a Sylvari. Keep it up ^^

[@yskezocha]

LOVED IT!! DO MORE!! I LOVED IT!! LOL said it twice but 2 times is not enough for to explain how much i loved this video. im a new player to the gw universe and so i loved gw2 just for its mechanics and such, but then i wanted to not be missing out on a big part of the game since i really like it. so i found your lore videos and made me feel more comfortable with the universe and now i am really into the story and REALLY REaLLY love deep lore videos and you do it greatly ;) 10,000,000 out of 10!

[@ProfessorKitsunelady]

I...am addicted to your videos. This is the 6th one I've seen today! Great work!

[@inkthedink]

I am not normally a lore person at all. This video and theory in general has me totally hooked. would love to hear more about things like this.

[@Chaosdeity]

So...I saw the ending of season 1 and immediately came back to this. Anet needs to hire you as a community lead director or something

[@utakatasix]

You summed this all up very well, and mostly focused on things I already knew, but when you mentioned Kuunvarang my mind about exploded. Now, the one thing I think you should do is add some thought bubbles here with in game citations - Ie, Malick's story, Scholar Trueclaw (says there exactly 6 dragons), Subject Alpha and Mordemoth...

[@Dipiis]

I would love some more videos like this, doesn't have to be any theory. Any kind of lore video would really help set a mood in the game for me, please do more! :)

[@Leerydestroyer]

Awesome video, well done! Makes me even more excited to play a sylvari and see how this turns out.

[@VerinShade]

Keep it up! You are the reason I got into Guild Wars lore. I can't get enough of it.

[@Cablesfish]

Lovely video. This is by far the place where WoodenPotatoes shine compared to other GW2 coverage. The fact that you KNOW SO MUCH about the world and the background. Please tell us more!

[@tuck295q]

So you are right.....Again! I swear to god Anet has been listening to you and just make the story goes as you predict the story. XD

[@KOVIK]

Can't predict based on a story that isn't there, though. Anet has been tight lipped about the Sylvari because they knew this was their plan all along. And the Sylvari personal story points to it, too.

[@magithedon]

tuck295q so mordremoth made the sylvari

[@Hijynx87]

He is my #1 commentator right now and I make sure to check every day for 1 or 2 videos =)

[@Munchkin.Of.Pern09]

Oh, it’s so strange watching this so long after HoT’s release.

[@Binidj]

Love the heavy lore spotlights, do please keep them coming.

[@panmaciej121]

It amazes me how You predicted a lot of things that happened in story years later, yet this video is 10 yo. Just to mention a few: - Existence of deep sea dragon - Each dragon has it's minions, and Sylvari being dragon's minions - Dragon's minion fighting against each other - ibs final - Each dragon has a champion - Kuunavang being dragon's champion

[@Cloudst4r]

Yet again I LOVE the lore in this game and how it allowes us to guess what'll happen. More of this if possible please!

[@cuterpooter]

I think this theory is fabulous, WP. Love all your videos, and just FYI: now the discussion is going on in the Sylvari forums at GW2.

[@beardcraft7020]

Intresting theory, i relly enjoy these lorevids you doin - will make the game so much more fun to play - keep it up.

[@PlusSe7en]

I heard this theory before and (although my lore knowledge is very limited) I thought it was ridiculous, but after watching this I honestly see this as a great theory. Thanks WP for being our lore-master.

[@hurrdurrimagrunt]

Another awesome vid WP, MOAR of these lore/theory spotlights!

[@Ardenwolfe]

Great video. After what just happened in Living Story, it really makes me wonder now.

[@Okhaj]

I loved this video! I don't normally watch lore videos but I watched the whole thing and it was really interesting

[@aderurururururu]

i read the title before the year the video was released n i was like “duh” then i saw the year “holy wtf”

[@Lucsy3012]

Very nice video I liked it a lot. I never thought about that and it could be possible. Would be a massive twist in the game. Now I'm really excited to see what happens next in the lore of GW2 and how the Sylvari are going to evolve.

[@KevinStallings]

Great theory... I like the nature vs. nurture idea you talked about concerning the Pale Tree.

[@ricardofariasY777]

this was very interesting, nice job on the spotlight really enjoyed it.

[@ChildOfChaos64]

I remember in the sylvari quest I am playing currently (about level 11 ish) another sylvari turns up that didn't come from the area of the pale tree, I am not too far into the arch yet but it can follow the idea that the previous pale tree dragon, but I will find out more eventually :) it is a really interesting theory, as well as there being the soundless and the nightmare court making a LOT of sense

[@austinl8074]

Another pale tree in Echovald huh? That would be sweet. Nice video overall, I love this and the lore videos. :) (And the countdown too....)

[@SephirothAngelOfDark]

More spotlights please. This was amazing. Please please please do more!

[@kmburton]

And finally. Keep it up. Theories like this and in it's time the comparison of the EDs and the six gods had us thinking the whole thing through. It keeps us on our toes and keeps the lore from getting stale. Will be anxiously awaiting release to find out where this all leads. Best Regards, Your friend in lore....:o)

[@MysticXombie]

Hey WP, it would be awesome if you could do more video's on more theories. A lot of the stuff you said I read on a forum already, but you saying it makes it sound so much more possible :)

[@PlanetDiablo16967]

This theory was damn close.

[@PuffTheMagicHobo]

There's a bit of a hole in the theory because the guy who founded the nightmare court was relatively good originally bit he got corrupted and blah blah.....Then he sabotaged some of the dreams of some sylvari, so there wasnt a guy who was randomly evil. Other than that, awesome theory episode WP. Sorry if i made amy mistakes, typing on a glitchy phone keyboard

[@halismeful]

Another thing to consider is that the sylvari may be sleeper agents. They join the other races, when in places of power they turn on their allies. Final idea ( slight spoiler) in one of the personal quests it says that anythingn ziatan

[@allabouttheponys11]

there is another scene in the grove which supports this theory as well. It occurs right outside the Lion's arch gate. A female sylvari complains about nightmares, and tries to convince her companion that they stem from the nightmare court since she "can't imagine such horrible things originated in (her)." But she really sounds likes she doesn't believe that it was an outside influence. Then she blathers on about not knowing herself. Fits right in with this premise.

[@ive.got.a.secret]

This was such an awesome video I was dispelling this theory because of the pale tree being planted by a human but once you went over that it made a lot of sense being in cycles and they do match up with the gods a lot better this way it's weird really. But anyway this video was great please do many more! (: and I liked your lore episodes too so you should do those also :P great vids cheers

[@invaderzam]

I agree with the Champion theory. Glint sympathized with the races because she could read their minds. I guess the Pale Tree was influenced by Ronan and Ventari. But where Glint decided to hide away, observe and assist only from the shadows and sidelines, this champion decided to build an army. It makes sense when you consider Slyvari physiology. When they emerge, they are already adults, have some knowledge of the world and skills. And some of them can fight from the moment they are born.

[@Burninwill]

More, more & moar of these spotlights please. Interesting theory, i cant really get behind the idea that the tree is a dragon but the idea of the tree being a champion is all i can think about now. also crazy how with a nature elder dragon the elderdragon:human god ratio matches. "I don't believe in coincidence" :)

[@AsgarTheZigel]

I saw the dragon boss in the Sylvari tutorial more like a foreshadowing of the thread of the dragons. It is called "Shadow of the Dragon", I took that as meaning that the Elder Dragons are so powerful that they influence the Dream, casting a shadow upon the Dream that manifests as a plant dragon. It should also be noted that the Nightmare is also caused by bad things happening to the Sylvari in general, not just the actions of the Nightmare Court.

[@Spncr313]

Really hope you see his potatoes, During the past beta weekend event, some lucky people were able to see a part of the early sylvari story line that puts some interesting things on the table. It's from the bio. choice "where life goes, so should you". I don't want to spoil EVERYthing, but the main theorcrafting gem from it is: There is in fact more than one pale tree. You meet a sylvari from another pale tree. You should do a follow up spot light on this

[@MerlinCGBroadway]

I like the idea of the pale trees being champions of a "nature" dragon. It seems to fit alot better. Very interesting theory and it will be interesting to see what comes of this in-game.

[@DodgeThisBam]

That left me with a lot to think about. It explains more about the motivations of the nightmare court. If the Pale tree IS a dragon instead of a Dragon perhaps it simply reverts back into a seed form while it is "asleep."

[@NikOSTuom]

I remember this guy too, you were to help him in one of the storylines. He was friendly, (though suspicious about you) and if I remember correctly quite unaware of the Nightmare. He didn't know why the Nightmare Court was so keenly after him, so I can't see him as one of the minions/bad guys

[@BetaraptorLP]

There's something more:(i hope you'll read this) Do you remember that sylvari, Malyck? In personal storyline of sylvari, he said that he had no dream. And remember that sylvari are teaching things in the dream? maybe, Malyck is (or should be) member of the Nightmare court, witch wasn't theached it. Maybe Ventari Tablet is GIVING dream, because in there, sylvari teach to be peacefull. You can find ventari tablet up in the omphalos chamber instance in the pale tree. It's connected with it. Strange

[@99bulldog]

Ok after this episode... mind blow! So many questions, I really do hope that Anet runs a storyline along the lines of the Pale Tree being the champion of an elder dragon that would be a helluva plot twist.

[@Freefall282]

This was a really good video! No one else really does lore let alone lore theories! Also mystery like this is the reason I like the sylvari so much!=)

[@TheRockMouse]

this was in fact brought up in one of these previous videos, it actually has quite a bit of support to it

[@SaintBroken]

Exactly! Grenth may be similar to Zhaitan (Death), Jormag to Dwayna (Water), Kralkatorrik in some way to Lyssa (Purple), Primordus to Balthazar (Fire), and that leaves Melandru for the Deep Sea Dragon (which is pretty weird, but since the Quaggans worship Melaggan I can accept this). Now the Sylvari could have been intended to represent the force of Abbadon but since he was replaced by Kormir the Sylvari have become in some way pure... though tbh I think that is mainly because ofVentari's Tablet

[@Gomjibar]

Another idea could be that while the Sylvari/Pale Tree are just another race, the nightmare court represent the corruption of them by a plant like elder dragon. The reason why the other dragons can't corrupt them is because they can only corrupt animals, not plants. And the plant monster that was guarding the pale tree seeds was another agent of this unknown plant dragon, and was going to corrupt and plant the different pale tree seeds to create more champions.

[@PandaTail]

I loved this video!!! :D Please, do more like these. :) Thank you for uploading this, as well!

[@chrisj1746]

I do as well like the idea that the Pale Tree is a defected ED champion, on par with Glint. Though I would rather see that the Pale Tree is a different entity maybe just for the sake of variety and sense of the world Tyria. In that way I like the idea that the Pale Tree is sort of the "immune system" of Tyria. That gives a feel that there's much more to Tyria than we know and there's more coming into play. Because the existence of EDs and Pale Trees raises the questions of what more is there.

[@sundriftspirit]

Not to mention that Ree did speak as though they followed the elven archetype when creating the Sylvari and spoke of it in a way that made it similar to Tolkien elves, with a sort of 'end of an era' thing... which would match the Sylvari longterm cycle.

[@RWhite_]

My theory on the Elder Dragons, is that they are the old gods of Tyria, the gods that ruled over Tyria before the humans 6 arrived. Something corrupted them, wore away at their minds, leaving only a lust for power, and that same thing could have begun to affect Abbadon. This explains quite a few things, but I'm sure there are holes in it, just like every other theory.

[@TheSinexCN]

I particularly like the idea of the ultimate heroic sacrifice that the Sylvari would have to make as a race. Fascinating theory, altogether.

[@res2wnor]

that was amazing!!!!! i so want to see this more often! i love the sylvari! more vids please! maybe one on the gods for the people who didnt play gw1?

[@NikOSTuom]

Also about Sylvari and aging - I wouldn't go as far to say they don't age. A lot of them haven't been around enough to have aged so that it would necessarily be noticable. Caithe and the other firstborn are less than 25 years old, which could in my eyes reflect aging between 20-35 human years. Again, this is just speculation on my part too, I don't know too much of the facts behind Sylvari lore, other than the Demo personal story and the two novels

[@Cyberpunkkitten]

Anet has already stated years ago that the power of the Elder Dragons and the Human Gods are separate. We tried to make this connection back when EOTN came out with the quest that had the dragon aspects, but they shot it down.

[@Squishy3]

Glint had been an Elder Dragon champion for 3000 years though, and she grew alongside the world to see what wonderful creatures it held, as well as helped them and the world through periods of extreme trouble. She knew Kralkatorrik would just end everything about it. If Kralkatorrik hadn't been dormant as long as he had (the time he's been dormant is unknown afaik) she would have been under his control and would have had no choice in the matter. But having been alive 3000 years gave her freedom