UAFX Lion '68 Super Lead - Comparison to a real Plexi

[@dass101]

Thanks a lot for the comparison. The difference is almost indiscernible, and it's definitely not a "one is better than the other" situation. Keep in mind that we're also comparing 2 different amps, one is the SV20, one is the 100W 1959. That alone I think would amount to a bigger difference than what we hear in this A/B test. I also recently bought the pedal, and, while I cannot compare to a real plexi, I can say that, used through a Fryette 2502 at home levels it sounds phenomenal, as good and as real as any other amp I've played.

[@Guitarjosii]

Thank you for your comment! You're absolutely right in what you say. I also find it amazing how close both the Lion and the SV20 are, even though the Lion is actually supposed to be a 1959, as you said You also have to consider the financial factor. A Lion is significantly cheaper than an SV20 plus loadbox. I'm currently discovering the qualities that the Lion also has on a regular guitar cabinet when I run it through the power amp of my Fryette Powerstation. It sounds a little less warm than the real Plexi, has a little less growl and depth - but it doesn't necessarily sound worse, just different. I'm thrilled with this thing.

[@dass101]

@@Guitarjosii exactly, if you consider the cost this is a no brainer. The option for me would've been, as you said, a real amp plus load box (or a Power station) I am not convinced that, by the time you add these up, you actually end up with something that's any better than just this pedal

[@Guitarjosii]

@@dass101 The Lion also works great in combination with the Fryette Power Station. I use the power end of the Fryette, to play it through a real cabinet 🙂

[@SlowCaptain12]

The fact that he actually got a bit confused about which one he was playing through shows how subtle the difference is. They sound so similar that it doesn't really matter anyone else but maybe the guitar player himself. Also, great AC/DC licks!

[@Guitarjosii]

Thanks! 😂

[@hoosierdaddy2308]

Great video. That pedal sounds like a Plexi to me. I've been playing since the mid 70s and it sounds so close I actually lost track of which was the amp and what was the pedal. Very cool. ❤ I subscribed my friend .. Regards from South Central Indiana. USA . Tim... ❤

[@Guitarjosii]

Thank you so much!! :-)

[@evgeniicherepanov547]

@@Guitarjosii thank you so much for your comparison, but please tell us more as you can about differencies in feelings while you playin these two things. I mean dynamics response, how far lion from the tube amp, and how much percents of dynamics range lion can give you if 100% - it's an original plexi? Thanks!

[@Guitarjosii]

@@evgeniicherepanov547 All I can say is that the Lion feels fantastic and very realistic. You can't compare it to an amp in a room setup. The Lion doesn't stand a chance in terms of sound or feel. But if you only listen to an amp miked up or play it through a loadbox, the differences are marginal. The Lion has a slightly flatter response, I would say. That's something you can feel. The dynamics are largely there, the real amp just feels a bit livelier. But that's marginal. What is more annoying is that the Lion sometimes has a slight digital scratchiness in the sound when the strings decay. Hard to describe. But I get on well with that too. I hope that answers your question.

[@FastRedPonyCar]

I used to have a Cieratone SL clone that Kurt at Granger amplification modded for me. Always sounded amazing but really impractical on stage and at home. The lion itself is really impressive but once you pair it with the OX Stomp, man it just comes to life in a way I wasn't expecting. Check my vid on that setup. I've since added the DelVerb to my pedalboard because I wanted more control over the delay/reverb than what the OX Stomp offers and it's another awesome pedal.

[@Guitarjosii]

I already have seen some of your videos! 😅 Yeah, I think about getting an external IR loader or maybe the OX Stomp. Not quite sure, which one to get. The BluGuitar Bluebox might be interesting, too. Or just the classic TwoNotes CabM+, because I could use my own IRs with it. But I like the options, the OX Stomp gives.

[@FastRedPonyCar]

@@Guitarjosii I've got several IR loaders and the OX Stomp is in a different league. It works fundamentally different than static IR loaders and the dynamic IR stuff like what Two Notes, Fractal and the Helix units have sound good but not "right" if that makes sense. Yes the OX stomp may seem limiting at first but once you start poking at it, you'll realize it has everything you DO need and nothing you don't. I don't know if the bluguitar box is still in production or not. I've got more IR's than I can count at this point from ML sound lab, Ownhammer, celestion, Nolly and none of them compare to the OX Stomp.

[@stephenchow5161]

i agree you video sounds fantastic fastred

[@brettchassen2888]

@@Guitarjosii

[@joemillo]

Thank you for the great comparison. It would be great to know what the settings were on the Lion.

[@Guitarjosii]

Thank you sou much! You can see my settings in the beginning of the video. Room and Boost were off, Presence was around 2 o'clock.

[@joemillo]

Nice!!! Thank you for the response. Great tone my man! @@Guitarjosii

[@Guitarjosii]

@@joemillo thanks! 🙂

[@tihomir7]

Probably the same as on Marshall

[@NicoBellisarioMusic]

awesome video! how did you handle the IR part? I know this pedal has inbuilt speaker emulation. But I understand you are using the same IR for both the amp and the pedal. is this correct? I have listened to other demos and the in built speaker emulation doesn't convince me one bit, but your demo sir is something else!

[@Guitarjosii]

Thank you so much! You can just deactivate the internal Impulse Response. With the left switch, you can browse trough 6 different IRs. When the light turns off, you are without a cabsim. So I just added my IR in the DAW. And I used exactly the same IR and settings for the Marshall and the Lion. :-) The internal IRs are okay. But I will try, how it may sound like, if I use an external IR loader behind the Lion. Maybe an OX Stomp or something.

[@NicoBellisarioMusic]

@@Guitarjosii ok, now I get why it sounds so much better than the other demos. Can I ask what IR you are using here? it would help a lot! thank you!

[@Guitarjosii]

@@NicoBellisarioMusic The impulse response is a Solodallas 1969 Basketweave Greenback cabinet.. and I added some room IR 🙂

[@jseiver]

what are your settings on the lion? I have a Marshall amp and a Lion. I am trying to use only the Lion through my PA, but it doesn't sound even close to the real Marshall. I'm not impressed with it at all.

[@Guitarjosii]

You can see my settings in the beginning of the video, where I show the pedal. Presence knob is around 1-2 o‘clock. Room-reverb is off. And I didn‘t use any of the internal boost. Have you tried it without the boost? I don‘t like the boost at all. Can‘t explain why you aren‘t happy. But you can‘t compare it to a real amp-in-the-room-situation, only a mic‘d amp signal.

[@jseiver]

@@Guitarjosii thanks for the reply, I'll play around with the settings some more. nice playing, sounds great.

[@PainterDans]

Great explanation, yes, it technically sounds like a recorded cabinet not a live in the room cabinet. Unless maybe you run into an amps effect return and out through a 4x12

[@javiersilva5409]

I've owned over 120 tube amps. I've tried every modeler out there. I've done over 7k gigs in my lifetime. I've toured (a real one). I'm 70. Still play several time a week. It's not even close!

[@Guitarjosii]

Not sure if sarcasm

[@v3rlon]

You should use a looper to play the EXACT same riff through both. I don’t hear more difference than you could get with tube variation or aging.

[@Guitarjosii]

I wanted to do reamping but don‘t have the possibility yet

[@javiersilva5409]

A couple if years ago, a friend of mine said that john Mayer was preparing to switch to Kemper on his next tour. I said he would never do it. He never did. Buy yourself a bassman head, tune it up, hook it to a cab, use any boss pedal you want, and there it is.

[@Guitarjosii]

The difference is, that John Mayer can afford people, who carry his amps. The second difference is, that he can play as loud as he can on stage, without getting bullied by the soundguy. I still love to use my tube amps, especially in live situations. But I do enjoy the compact format of the Lion. It fully replaced my tube amp in the rehearsal room. Better in ear monitoring without any micbleed, great sound for recordings - I can record the DI signal without a Loadbox and can put different IRs over it in the post processing to find the best sound for the mix. It has it‘s advantages.

[@TheSterlingSound]

Great video.. did you have the presence knob on the Lion up at the same level, plus the treble cap simulation?

[@Guitarjosii]

@@TheSterlingSoundThanks! I keep the presence knob around 1 oclock, treble cap is on :)

[@Nico-pb9lq]

That's a 20 w cathode bias Marshall Studio, not a full size 50 or 100 watts fixed bias plexi but it doesn't sound bad here

[@NO-TALK-GuitarPlugin]

Two points : - Marshall sound not the same as the pedal. - lion has a fast compression baked into the model - in much prefer the feel of the lion, and the fact it’s a little less harsh

[@matt-fn9gr]

Pretty cool I want one of each.

[@Guitarjosii]

Didn't have the chance to check out the other UAFX pedals so far :-(

[@rikshredder]

@@Guitarjosii Which switching pedal are you using here?

[@Guitarjosii]

@@rikshredder It is a little A/B Switch by Looperwerk :-)

[@rikshredder]

@@Guitarjosii Thank you. That Lion pedal sounds fantastic.

[@Guitarjosii]

@@rikshredder yeah, I think, it's amazing

[@olequijote1]

That's some good playing.

[@Guitarjosii]

@@olequijote1 Thanks! :)

[@5150show]

Lion ❤

[@guilhordas]

Whats the pickups of SG??

[@Guitarjosii]

@@guilhordas mid-60s Gibson patent number pickups but with T-Top specs like orange polywire and short magnets - just without the T-stamped bobbins. So basically T-Tops

[@myuncle2]

In the Lion you need to lower the bass and increase the mids, but it was very close. I wonder if it's the same if you compared them through a miced cab.

[@Guitarjosii]

Thanks! :) I didn‘t spend too much time tryin to match both sounds. I think you could come even closer. I checked the Lion with a real cabinet and my Fryette as a poweramp. It sounds okaaaay. No comparison to a real amp.

[@myuncle2]

@@Guitarjosii Yeh, that's the problem with digital through a cab.

[@rikshredder]

Which switching pedal are you using?

[@nicolasaraistrujak208]

I think that the pedal had less high mids from something like 3k to 5kHz, you could tweek the pedal to match the amp

[@Guitarjosii]

Yup, you‘re probably right :-)

[@matsandersson8857]

It’s the no bright cap or the change to a 100p that does that. A 68 SLP originally has a 4,7n bright cap.

[@davidzais]

can i ask what impulse response you are using in this?

[@Guitarjosii]

I use Solodallas IRs. It was the 69 Basketweave Greenback cabinet and a little bit of their reverb-IRs of a room mic. These Solodallas Cabsims sound absolutely killer.

[@davidzais]

@@Guitarjosii Thanks! they're pretty pricey but i might try them. Thanks again! I just did the same comparison with my Lion and SV20. I have a bogner cabinet that jas a ceslestion FX-1200 speaker that i use with my FM9. Sounds pretty damn good with the Lion

[@wolfganghuber3616]

Schöner Vergleich! Mit meinen Ohren - über Kopfhörer - gewinnt der SV 20, klingt weicher in der Verzerrung und natürlicher. Wobei natürlich jeder Marshall Plexi anders klingt.

[@Guitarjosii]

Danke dir! ☺️ Ich finde auch, dass der SV minimal offener klingt. Aber ich finde es bemerkenswert, wie nah der Lion heran kommt. Vergessen darf man dabei eben auch nicht, dass der Lion deutlich günstiger ist, leichter ist, keine Wartung braucht, etc. etc. etc. :-)

[@thoblette]

Ich habe auch beide bei mir im Studio stehen. Der Lion ist schon sehr, sehr gut. Dazu flexibler als ein SV20 und es fallen einem nicht gleich die Ohren ab wenn man ihn spielt 😁

[@AlexCompozes]

Can we plug the pedal to a guitar amp like a normal effect pedal?

[@Guitarjosii]

@@AlexCompozes Yes, absolutely. It takes pedals really well. Even Fuzz Pedals work great. Time based modulation effects work pretty good when placed behind the Lion.

[@AlexCompozes]

@@Guitarjosii thanks , I mean if I plug the Lion to my fender pro junior combo does it work?

[@Guitarjosii]

@@AlexCompozes Oh, sorry, I got your question wrong. Mhhhh yeah, it works but it doesn't sound that good when plugged into the normal input of the amp. I tried it with my Pro Junior several times. It does sound great when plugged into an FX-Loop, if you turn off the internal cabsims. Unfortunately the ProJunior doesn't have an FX-Loop but I tried it with other amps and that sounded phenomenal.

[@AlexCompozes]

@@Guitarjosii ok thanks ;)

[@AmnellAndreas]

Great demo!

[@Guitarjosii]

Thanks man! 🙂

[@James-cn9no]

Difference are so subtle that it hardly make a difference to the listener. Certainly if you were not A/B the two before an audience they would enjoy the music through the pedal just fine.

[@Guitarjosii]

that's exactly what I was thinking

[@alguitarchristie]

Very good, but it's the way the cabs are miked up on the Lion, that really give a great sound. They are not impulse responses, which never sound as good as the U.A simulations! I have the Lion and the Dream 65 and they sound better than any other modelers, only the Fractal comes close!

[@Guitarjosii]

I used a third party IR here in this clip. I like them alot better than the ones, that are preinstalled on the Lion :-)

[@vondragonnoggin]

I bought mine about 3 months ago. 50 watt Plexi clone hasn’t been turned on since I A/B’ed against the Lion using real cabs. I used a solid state pedal power amp too for the Lion 68’s actual power. They were just too close to want to keep wearing out my power tubes on my Plexi clone. Lion 68 is more versatile too. I have a variac I’ve used on my clone, but you have to re-bias tubes if you use a variac otherwise you have bias too cold. With the Lion 68, it’s just a flick of a switch. Very flexible pedal. Your results may be different, but with same cabs, I just didn’t care about minutia in differences. Rock on.

[@alguitarchristie]

@@vondragonnoggin there is a video with James Santiago on Sweetwater, the guy who designed the pedal and it's really great,he goes into great detail about the cabs they chose.

[@Guitarjosii]

@@RustyMadd Modding? What do you mean?

[@Guitarjosii]

@@RustyMadd I have mentioned it in the beginning of the video, that I am using Solodallas IRs in this clip. There is no other way to do a fair comparison with another amp. Everything else would be like comparing apples to oranges. And it's not a big deal to put an external IR loading device behind the Lion. That's why you can deactivate the internal cabsims.

[@mikebeaulieu3620]

It's not an equal comparison as the real Marshall Super Lead has a 5000pf bright cap on Volume 1. James Santiago chose to make the UA Lion emulation from a vintage Super Lead with only a 100pf bright cap on V1. To me, all of the real magic is with the 5000pf cap on V1. I am hoping that UA will provide an update to the Lion so that us guys who love the stock Super Lead with the correct bright cap will get what we paid for.. this is my only complaint about the UA Lion.... even Peter Thorn was surprised that they emulated a modded Super Lead with a 100pf on V1 as he also likes a 5000pf bright cap not 100pf.

[@Guitarjosii]

You‘re probably right but I think, it is amazing, how close it is to the small SV20.

[@mikebeaulieu3620]

@Guitarjosii a real super sounds absolutely nothing like an SV 20 but I get what your saying. Thanks

[@Guitarjosii]

@@mikebeaulieu3620 I had a 1987 for many years, so yeah - I know. The SV20 is much cleaner and won‘t produce as much sag when turned up.

[@mikebeaulieu3620]

@@Guitarjosii now your bringing a 1987 into the convo.. a Super Lead and 1987 50 watt are also not close either. A Super Lead is probably one of the most cleanest aggressive and most musical amps ever created.. to this day nothing sounds like a Super Lead.. 50 watt 1987 although a great amp, is limited in regard to what it can sound like.. I plugged into one of my Super Leads last night after playing through the Lion for 2 months and was completely blown away.. as I stated before.. the Lion is great but it's tone is not at its optimal without the midrange and treble bite of the 5000 pf bright cap on Volume 1.

[@Polentaccio]

​​@@mikebeaulieu3620hold on, but the bright cap is essentially out of the circuit when you get the volume up to crunch so what diff does that really make in his design? The trade off would be more at the lower gain settings. But hell, i agree. I like a higher calue bright cap. For a Marshall i want the bite

[@javiersilva5409]

The real marshall. Not even close. And that's cause I'm hearing through my phone speaker.

[@Guitarjosii]

@@javiersilva5409 Of course, I like the real amp a bit better. But it‘s close enough for me, considering the differences in price, size, weight, work flow, reliability etc.

[@guitarlair]

I have the SV20 too and used to have some plexi pedals as well, one of them being the LPD87... the pedals always lack smth.. they lack harmonics, bass and that growl that the amp has.. they sound too polished.

[@Guitarjosii]

Pedals like the LPD87 are Pre-Amp pedals. You can't compare them to a modelling solution like the Lion68 🙂

[@guitarlair]

@@Guitarjosii you can't compare any pedal with an amp. There's nothing that can emulate properly an entire circuit of pre + power section of an amp... it can get in the ballpark tho..UA makes amazing pedals, I own 2 of them and they never leave my pedalboard.

[@CarstenGoeke]

Lion. Echt lecker 😊✌🏼

[@Guitarjosii]

Ich hätte Snickers noch besser gefunden. 😂

[@CarstenGoeke]

@@Guitarjosii Als Eis unschlagbar ✌🏼

[@Guitarjosii]

@@CarstenGoeke Oh ja, das habe ich damals geliebt! 🥹 Wird Zeit, dass sie eine vegane Alternative auf den Markt bringen 😂

[@dany_riggs_official]

Der echte Marshall hat mehr Headroom, was aber in der Natur der Sache liegt. Ansonsten geben sie sich echt nicht viel.

[@Guitarjosii]

Joa also ich finde, der echte Marshall kommt marginal offener daher. Wenn ich beide an ein reguläres Gitarrencabinet anschließe (und für das Lion eine Röhrenendstufe nutze), kann das Lion allerdings nicht mithalten. Aber das ist ja auch eigentlich garnicht der Einsatzzweck - klingt aber auch in diesem Fall echt top.

[@Utube-s8m]

Sinvertek has a whole thing of different yrs of Marshall’s in a small pedal. No offense but this is not a new idea. Plus, they’re N5 sounds like a Soldano and or Bogner ecstasy in a box. Small pedal. I assume this will be removed.

[@Guitarjosii]

These Sinvertek Pedals are Preamp-Pedals. You can't compare these to the Lion68. The Lion is a digital modelling amp with internal impulse responses. It isn't a new idea - something like the Strymon Iridium has become a classic. But these UA-guys take it to another level.

[@RandyFricke]

The JOYO British Sound does the same thing for $40 U.S.

[@Guitarjosii]

@@RandyFricke 😂 The Joyo isn‘t even a modelling amp

[@zachariahwade8482]

Amp sounds(and I bet feels) way better.

[@Guitarjosii]

Can you describe the difference? 🙂

[@zachariahwade8482]

Just those first two riffs the amp sound has more depth/complexity sort of 3D quality. Like the low strings are clear and punchy for the riff but when you dig in on the chords the sound compresses but bites. Lots of chewiness and Kerrang. The pedal sounds harder, less responsive to your picking dynamics. Like the listener is being hit by the sound but not enveloped. More mids so would probably cut through more, but it’s not as pleasant a midrange and might not sit IN the mix like a great Marshall. The pedal sounds 2D as if it is a veneer or facade over the base tone. Not saying a pedal into a clean-ish amp can’t work, especially in a live environment, but it’s just not the same and there will always be compromises. In the room, back to back, I hear the difference immediately and have always preferred the amp. The only time I use a pedal if I’m home just doing my thing is boosting my stock 79 2203 set for hard rock crunch(Barber LTD SR) My vintage 4 holers are set for late 60’s-mid 70’s low-medium gain and are so responsive to picking dynamics I don’t need anything else. Through Pulsonics nothing can touch that breakup.

[@duncancartledge1667]

You can hear a little more bite in the Marshall, especially on single note runs. Seems a little brighter and more present. Having said that the Lion is very very close.