Gunk is a good Monk Build! - Dnd 5E

[@PackTactics]

This works with Kensei btw but its weaker in my eyes. This also works with CBE/SS but if you do that, you have to grab fighter 1 first level.

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

I would use Kensei, but mostly as an 8 lvl primer for a John Preston build (Equilibrium, introduced Gun Kata gunking). The other 12 are dedicated to Battle Master Fighter and maneuvers like Disarming Attack, Evasive Footwork and more. Having the Deft Strike ability allows me to save superiority die for damage dealing and I’d also get a longsword for up close engagements just in case.

[@NobodyDungeons]

How I handle the calculations is I assume that you are gaining the maximum bonus to hit, and then do separate calculations to determine my damage without the bonus accuracy then take the average. The reason I think this works is that they are the highest, and the lowest calculations, so getting the average of those will give you your average DPR.

[@chaoticwriting6304]

Yo kobold, I have a friend who uses a Gunk in our games. It works in practical play too. Our combats dont have much stealth so he chose a kensei. It still works. Guy is like our main damage dealer.

[@LucanVaris]

Finally, someone who's willing to admit that Shadow Monk was, is, and always will be better than Gloom Stalker Ranger, Ghost Lance, and even ArtiChron. Not even the DM manifesting mid-game has the power to stop a character that goes Gunk. :D ...Seriously though. Good job with the April Fools video. XD

[@thebitterfig9903]

One thing that's nice about Kensei is that it's a lot easier to do the math with Deft Strike than Focused Aim. That'll be pretty easy and fairly robust against assumptions, and you also get a not-terrible ki conservation phase with Kensei's Shot. Kensei 6 or 8 with Gloomstalker 3 or 4 would probably be a lot of fun for a one-shot, where you don't have to worry about lack of early game utility from Way of Shadow, but Shadow 5/Fighter 1 clearly gets to the good stuff faster.

[@georgeuferov1497]

>monk >way of shadow >uses gun >gloomstalker ranger >assassin rogue Congratulations, you've made a historically accurate ninja

[@Sugma.Nuts-]

Bet

[@Year2047]

My friend built one of these one night while we were trying to make new characters. We were shocked because we realized it worked better than other monks, and neither of us like monks mechanically. Its crazy.

[@claylord4457]

For people saying the flavor's not there, shadow monks are meant to be the dnd equivalent of ninjas more or less, and one of the most famous examples of a ninja doing their job is when a ninja used a musket (it was an arqebus, but still) to attempt to assassinate Oda Nobunaga, who was more or less the Abraham Lincoln of Japan. Ninja's used guns, and they avoided getting into melee as best as possible, with most of their training going into how to avoid and escape fighting someone face to face.

[@cephelos1098]

Calling Oda Nobunga "The Abraham Lincoln of Japan" is fucking hilarious

[@SavageGreywolf]

@@cephelos1098 the thing is it's almost right. Oda was a leader during a bloody civil war whose victory ultimately led to the formation of the state that became modern Japan.

[@MaMastoast]

There's a bit of an issue here in that Shadow monk is supposed to be the pop culture ninja, you know, clad in black, one with the shadow ect... Real ninjas are mostly a different story.

[@claylord4457]

@@MaMastoast but some of the best pop culture ninjas are rooted in some form of actual historical knowledge on the subject. Even if it's not 100% accurate.

[@MaMastoast]

@@claylord4457 Sure, but the pop culture ninja does typically not use guns :), they pretty much exclusively use small swords and shuriken... I'm just saying that the historical ninja isn't really relevant for the flavor of a class based on the pop culture ninja... I mean historically, ninjas would have probably done anything to get the job done.. which as far as I'm aware was mostly just spying.. walking around town pretending to be a merchant for 2 months for example. But yea, the use of guns for a shadow monk doesn't actually bother me, just struck me as odd to use historial ninja to justify it thats all.

[@frostfire8490]

its mildly funny that treantmonk tried not to step on pack tactics tail only to stumble onto pack tactics tail

[@antongrigoryev6381]

I'm pretty sure it's Pack Tactics trolling Treantmonk on 1st April, by releasing a video on a build Treant dismissed in his last video.

[@jonniehanzel1768]

@@antongrigoryev6381 I hadn't thought about it

[@frostfire8490]

@@antongrigoryev6381 O, that makes sense if true i pretend 1st April doesn't exist

[@PackTactics]

@@antongrigoryev6381 Treantmonk covers a different build than this if you actually pay attention to his video.

[@jacobmoll2878]

I am glad they both did it. I like the different points of view. In fact I am more interested when they both cover the same topic. I understand that I am an oddity however

[@renatocorvaro6924]

Fun fact, ninjas loved guns. So this works flavour wise too.

[@joelsasmad]

So did japanese Buddhist monks.

[@pandagamer-hg5be]

Everyone who's ever developed gunpowder loves/loved guns

[@CharlesUrban]

"You must move with the utmost silence and concealment...right up until you open fire. That's going to get people's attention no matter what you do."

[@snowmanmanvideo]

I love this. There were real Japanese monks that rolled around with muskets, good times

[@zac9933]

I like how you said "good times" like you were there lol. (Not being mean, it just made me chuckle.)

[@snowmanmanvideo]

@@zac9933 because I was *intense reveal sound*

[@tektonik4616]

this reminds me of the picture of Buddhist monks with guns and the quote over it "patience has limits" and I now desperately want to do this

[@saeedrazavi4428]

The trees can't be harmed if the Lorax is armed

[@wacky518thetoastmage8]

There was a Buddhist monk monastery in Japan that focused on honing ones skills with black powder firearms so this awesome and has historical Precedent. Ranged monks are real monks!

[@thenecrodancer4833]

I think I know what you’re talking about, you’re referring to the Ikko-Ikki of the Sengoku Era yes?

[@theleninator5739]

@@thenecrodancer4833 i see, a fellow shogun 2 total war enjoyer.

[@aidan4472]

We’re gonna defeat you with the power of friendship! And this gun I found!

[@curnott6051]

I like how Kobold went from "I will never discuss martials on this channel" to "here's a way to optimize a martial which is notorious for being the class that is hardest to optimize". That's character development right there.

[@naturalkind5591]

Optimized Martial: Proceeds to use spells for the biggest impact

[@PackTactics]

We don't really have anyone in optimization try to defend Monks so I gave it a shot myself. This is a good build. But do I think monks are horrible? Yes.

[@fadeleaf845]

@@PackTactics At least they're not Rogues. Only thing I've seen them do is adding another martial damage dip in Assassin after you've exhausted the better ones (Battlemaster and Gloomstalker).

[@alexandrudorries3307]

@@fadeleaf845 try arcane trickster with a substantial dip into bladesinger

[@PandorasFolly]

@@PackTacticsexcellent overview and class build. I've played monks ALOT.... like for 30 years in every edition. Their main problems are WoTC are cowards and that they had a weird starting point. The beat monk so far has been the 4th edition monk which was a caster who ignored most weapon propeties and damage dice when doing their monk attacks. 1. They were created, as i understand it, because one of the devs back in the late 70s was a HUUUUGE fan of the Remo Williams adventures and they modeled him off of that and not real world martial arts or martial arts legends and stories or even just old kung fu movies. 2. They compromised with the 3.5/5e build. Because if you dont include enough martial arts razzmatazz you just get a fighter. BUUUUT if you give it a bunch of reflavored spells or special abilities it needs to thematically be a monk and be effictive then it makes the other martials look kinda crappy. Also the 5th editon monk took too mich from 3.5 and not enough from the 4th, which was a casting class

[@OffbeatOutlaw]

This is by far the best defence of the monk I have seen, well done pack tactics!

[@TheGaboom]

Hey offbeat! 👋

[@baseupp12]

Offbeat approval that means you know the build is good

[@chaosgoblin]

The best way is playing RAW and not RAI. Then just build lvl 20 monk. At lvl 20, when entering initiative without ki points, regain 4 ki points. When you take a short rest : regain all *Expended* ki points. Meaning if you slap your barbarian buddy a couple times, use all your ki, repeat and then take a short rest, you can have near infinite ki points.

[@fadeleaf845]

The answer was looking outside the standard monk imagery

[@colddorito]

@@chaosgoblin that seems needlessly pointless and too gimmicky for any dm to even consider. The first time you hit the barb in character how are they gonna respond? Simply hitting and then backing off then doing it again a short time later can be ruled as you not dropping combat. At this point you waste the party's time and it sounds really annoying to have at a table. Also only following RAW has already been stated by Pack Tactics to be stupid as spells like revivify can't target a dead body and creatures can't grapple without hands. Being full monk is so lack luster.

[@addic03]

To those that think ranged monks aren't a thing, clearly you have never seen Equilibrium or heard of Gun-kata

[@badryukun]

I get where you are coming from, but did you have to bring up that dumpster fire of a movie?

[@avielparrack3764]

Yeah, now I want to make a “cleric” doing Gun-fu

[@LucanVaris]

"We can't expect God to do _all_ the work." -Joshua Graham.

[@benry007]

​@@badryukun what are you talking about that was a great movie😁

[@badryukun]

@@benry007 Please tell me that is sarcasm. It wanted to be the matrix so hard. But in the end it is ugly, was borderline cartoonish(I mean the antagonists were literally killing puppies. Like, come on.), the writing was just plain terrible, and it wasn’t the Matrix.

[@lokerkestler5105]

Behold, gun kata the class! This is a gun-fu build! Definitely using this in a modern setting to become a dnd John Wick.

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

Or John Preston from Equilibrium, played by Christian Bale.

[@WarDragonOfTheLight]

@@lt.branwulfram4794 Always the first thing that comes to mind for me but as far as games go, I wanna mention Cassie Cage and Erron Black from Mortal Kombat.

[@kevingriffith6011]

There is only one major problem with pass Without Trace being paired with a gun, and this is going to depend on your table more than it depends on the rules. Muskets are *loud*... like, REALLY loud. By RAW this isn't a factor, but depending on your DM there's a chance that at minimum firing your weapon in a dungeon will put all the other monsters in the dungeon on alert, meaning no more passive perceptions, but it could also lead to enemies from other rooms in the dungeon to come and investigate who's firing what amounts to a small cannon in this other room. I don't really have a good way around this other than spending *even more ki* casting silence, but that's a stopgap measure and not a real solution.

[@sterlingmuse5808]

To be fair, you could totally bring multiple weapons with you. If you have a Shortbow as well, you can use that if you feel like an encounter won't be the Big Encounter for that dungeon, and you wouldn't even need to un-Monk-ify the Musket in that situation since a Shortbow is already a Monk weapon.

[@jgalt99]

Granted, most of the tables I've played at recently focus more on RP with combat being high-stakes, infrequent and a sign that planning has broken down or that we're really close to a major villain confrontation so it might feel better for me to use every resource possible. But there are also other party members who can potentially cast silence, (you're almost always going to have at least 1 bard, ranger, or cleric), silence is an excellent spell just in general, (you could cast it dual-purpose to partially nulify a spellcaster and quiet your gunk at the same time) and the ki points might be well spent in the edge case where this is a worry. You're essentially using them to keep a manageable encounter from becoming unmanageable. Also combat in general should be pretty loud, with people screaming war cries, wounded combatants yelling in pain, doors and furniture being broken, etc. If there are enemies a few rooms away in an otherwise quiet setting they should probably be investigating regardless.

[@kylepence2066]

I'm kinda new to dnd can I ask what RAW means

[@TheZombieOfDrake]

@@kylepence2066 Rules As Written, vs RAI, Rules As Intended. AKA, what the designers actually wrote down vs how they expected the rules to work.

[@jgalt99]

@@kylepence2066 Rules As Written.

[@jacobchapman8180]

Playing a Giff Gunk as a jolly hunter sounds like a good time to me.

[@alexandrudorries3307]

This is amazing in a party with a loxodon assassin rogue flavored as a master of disguise and infiltration

[@yah00dy]

@@alexandrudorries3307 everyone is large and in charge. Needs Firbolg Druid, Orc Wizard, Goliath Cleric.

[@KolmManison]

​@@alexandrudorries3307what is this? dnd Bebob and Rocksteady? Lmao

[@baka030hydroid]

My monk used a grenade launcher as his monk weapon. He multiclassed into artificer since we were playing Descent into Avernus, and ended up making a grenade launcher alongside being the mechanic for the party's war machines. It was a fun time tbh. He was a sun soul monk, and he rode around on a devil's ride (big ass motorcycle), also carrying a chained sickle. The DM eventually flavored him to always have slightly glowing feathers (he was a kenku) that looked like hot coals, so they started calling him ghost rider. Probably one of my most fun characters I ever played.

[@thebitterfig9903]

Leaving aside quibbles about firing off three Musket shots a round being somewhat incompatible with stealth over the medium time frame, this is still great, if for no other reason than it's a bit different. It's a fun change of pace, and that's good. Been playing Gloomstalker or Battlemaster archers? Why not try Monk, and have a character who feels really unique for the first five levels?

[@curnott6051]

If you or your DM is allowing guns in your game, then I don't think it's much of a stretch to allow the Monk to use their dedicated weapon feature on a Heavy/ Two-Handed Weapon if it was a ranged one so they can pick up a Heavy Crossbow. You're going from a d12 to a d10 but I think it's a fair trade for a quiet weapon.

[@Phhase]

Something something Skulker feat I guess.

[@thebitterfig9903]

@@curnott6051 To be sure. But a Heavy Crossbow version of the Gunner feat (CBE trading the Hand Crossbow bonus attack for +1 dex), and allowing a Heavy dedicated weapon is ~technically~ going outside the rules, while the firearms are still RAW with an optional rule. Personally, I'd much rather do that slightly homebrewed crossbow than use a gun. Three shots in six seconds is kinda goofier than the hand crossbow stuff--I mean, if we're talking muskets, Minutemen was impressive. Or we can just "Flavor is Free" and say that it's not a musket, but a special kind of advanced compound bow, or one using special materials like the horns of exotic creatures. Might even be a great hook for a quest, where the players need to hunt something really big to get something better than a longbow.

[@HybridHerps]

You know, had the party I was in last campaign known about this, the idea of giving a laser rifle to our shadow monk might have been even more insane, however that player was not built to optimize that stuff and I believe this was pre-Tasha when he started playing the character.

[@benry007]

​@@thebitterfig9903 I think I would say it starts as a slightly altered musket and then as time goes on you take it apart and reassemble it continuously tinkering with it. Eventually its not really a musket anymore even if you still call it one.

[@MatthewCampbell765]

Flavor-wise, I think the idea actually does work. Basically, think Neo from the Matrix or John Preston from Equilibrium, perhaps even John Wick. It's within the spirit of what a monk is, it's just a twist on the idea.

[@INTCUWUSIUA]

Also a more fantastical version of the Ikko Ikki.

[@dorca9308]

Tasha really helped monk a lot with dedicated weapon and focused aim, opened up a lot of creative builds

[@bronsonkim6652]

Love seeing the love for Shadow Monks on this channel. Being able to spam PWT alone has been how my Shadow Monk maintained relevance with the rest of his party when he couldnt keep up with DPR or Tanking

[@TheMattrking]

I’m currently running an Warforged Astral Monk with two revolvers in an old west game on my channel right now. He’s recently gotten an Arcane Propulsion Arm that the DM lets do Monk things at a distance; feels good!

[@RedMage95]

"I dont think anyone knows about the gunk." Me, sitting on a gunk build for the right campaign: "Of course I know him. Hes me."

[@lucasstrong9208]

I was recently considering how to make a ranged monk, then the idea hit me to use guns, not because it is the optimal monk strategy, but because for some reason the idea of cowboys came to my brain and I was like "Monk is the perfect cowboy because Weapons+Unarmored=Cowboy." Cool to see that the Gunk conclusion can be reached through much more optimal thinking. lol

[@benry007]

Plus have you seen how often cowboys in movies knock someone out with a single hit? Definitely a monk.

[@spiritwolf963]

You know, if we assume we can use a musket or pistol, I'd actually kinda like to see a build specifically making the most of those weapons.

[@TheScottishKayaker]

The gunslinger class in the Critical Role supplement is all about using guns and is now considered canon.

[@thecharmer5981]

@@TheScottishKayaker why is it cannon?

[@loosinit_mc]

@@thecharmer5981 because what is a cannon but a big gun?

[@thecharmer5981]

@@loosinit_mc i mean no, but also yes

[@zacbarkey5883]

@@TheScottishKayaker it makes guns worse. Just go battle Master and it's the same thing. Gunslinger gives a negative to guns where s dmg doesn't do this

[@StronSlinger]

I made a build for this a few months ago. I went Kensei 3 for the 6th level feature allowing you to use 1 ki to add 1d8 to an attack. this allows you to use the third level feature for the bonus action attack. as you said, gunner at lvl 1 and sharpshooter at lvl 4. Adding 4 levels of gloomstalker gives archery, hunter's mark, and 4 attacks on round 1. taking further ranger gives you pass without trace, eventually letting you have your cake and eat it too. appreciate this topic being covered!

[@StronSlinger]

alternate build is going battlemaster 4. depends on how much you want action surge and maneuvers as opposed to spells and consistent damage increases.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Swarmkeeper is the better ranger route for a ranged monk multiclass. Especially shadow monk using a gun. Snipe a target from 100 feet away and use your swarm of shadows to yeet the target 15 feet in any horizontal direction. 15 feet over the outer wall of a castle rampart. 15 feet over a bottomless pit. 15 feet to the left of whatever tree branch, platform, or watchtower the enemy was perched on. Swarmkeeper is phenomenal. If you're gonna recommend a 4 class multiclass might as well dive into the shadow theme. 8 shadow monk/4 echo knight fighter/6 swarmkeeper ranger/2 war wizard. Put your shadow bullets, shadow clones, and shadow swarm everywhere on the battlefield.

[@dumbwaki5877]

where are you going to get that 13 int for war wizard lol ....

[@captainpandabear1422]

I thought this was serious for a solid 3-4 minutes of the video. You got me, Kobold. You got me.

[@jaixproembry4683]

Not gonna lie - I’ve had an idea for a warforged hunter character, that was stealthy, and used firearms, and I think this type of build is a really good route to go! Great video! Not entirely optimized, but shadow monk + eldritch adept can also be really good with this build, essentially providing yourself both cover and making it hard for enemies to enter melee with you

[@DvirPick]

About that last point, you gain versatility by being able to fight at both melee and range. Against ranged enemies, you can use your superior speed to close the gap and use unarmed strikes and flurry of blows to stun them. Against melee enemies you want to keep your distance. That being said, it doesn't fit every character concept. And it shouldn't. This is the answer for "how to build the best damage dealing monk". If your character concept is more unarmed strike based, then this isn't the build for you. Everyone plays differently and no one build is superior to the rest because people have different criteria for fun.

[@smile-tl9in]

if you want a melee monk do a half elf mercy monk with a longsword. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXeTkIWpqaaGi8U

[@jeffersonian000]

The best “monk” I’ve ever played was an Evil Divine Soul Sorcerer casting Inflict Wounds.

[@pariah23475]

Correction Muskets are *Firearms* Ranged weapon not simple or martial that dedicated weapon requires.

[@Saemjuhl]

in the DMG musket is under martial ranged weapons. Look in the firearms table.

[@FallenFromGlory]

read

[@TheWiseMountainGoat]

This was actually my first monk about 2 or 3 years ago! Tabaxi Kensei with a Tal'dorei pepperbox while playing CoS. My DM and I hashed out how/why in my backstory. Misfires meant martial arts were a good fallback, and my speed and range made me a nearly untouchable encounter breaker, even in confined spaces. We agreed to put my previous PC (a way over level necromancer/nuker with Strahd's brides as support) as a boss just challenge us after level 6

[@KILLERm122]

Nice vid! Just FYI: • Pass w/out Trace does *not* work against magical means • There is no such thing as a surprise round, only the surprised condition - which does *not* confer advantage against surprised creatures. Altho being hidden would give adv on the player’s first attacks. Anyway, You and Treeantmonk should do a collab on this, since he released his video on the Gunk as well!

[@giddymadman2687]

Fecking awesome.

[@PackTactics]

I didn't say there was a surprise round.

[@KILLERm122]

@@PackTactics sounded like ya did. If not, then ok. Also what about the rest of what i wrote?

[@miquando5033]

Feature says only martial and simple weapon. Gun is firearm weapon. RAW it does not work :P

[@KILLERm122]

@@miquando5033 that’s what dedicated weapon is for. See TCE page 48.

[@Dijeouni]

I made a village of gunks in a Korean-themed setting, so it's nice to see them getting more recognition! Loved the build!

[@croydd]

"DMs who allow artificers usually also allow muskets." Where is this coming from? I think that's a pretty bold assumption to take for granted.

[@comfortablegrey]

I like the respect between Bagpipes and Treantmonk, the gunk is a rather specific topic around the same time. The only requirement beyond the PHB is guns, and I like it.

[@Technotoadnotafrog]

Actually, Ki-Fueled Attack is an optional rule from Tasha's, the same book the Gunner feat here is from, but that shouldn't be an issue since DMs that allow one usually allow the other.

[@comfortablegrey]

@@Technotoadnotafrog You're right, but Ki-fueled attacks and such isn't required to make a gunk. They merely make the gunk better.

[@themarshmallow514]

Hold up. You're forgetting something about the Monk Weapon property. "You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. (!)This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table." This means no matter what weapon you're using as long as it has the Monk Weapon property. we can substitute the damage die for our martial arts die. And from Dedicated Weapon: "Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a *monk weapon* until you use this feature again." As long as we have proficiency with the weapon, we can deal 1d4 to 1d10 damage depending on level. This means Sling, which benefits from Crusher thanks to its damage type, is a very competitive ranged weapon for a Monk. We can also accomplish all of this with a Hand Crossbow and Crossbow Expert, and we don't have to badger our DM into adding, and not mangling, the PHB version of guns.

[@Starguardianbard]

Issue with that is you have to go deep into monk levels whereas the gunk can stop at the important point and start adding multiclasses. Treantmonk did a video about how ranged monks don't work well specifically when they are full monks, MCing is what makes up the power difference

[@GreyGramarye]

The key word there is “CAN.” You are not obligated to swap the damage die. At low levels, the musket is far and away the best option. (This is also why people have suggested finding a way to get Longsword proficiency as a monk, as it qualifies for Dedicated Weapon and can be used with Versatile for 1d10 damage.)

[@BusterBuizel]

Paladin: So uhhh, monk, what do you usually meditate on? Monk: how to upgrade my rifle for sub MOA accuracy and multiple drills I’m gonna do like mag drills, failure to stop drills, low ready, high ready, Bill drills, half Bill drills, tact reloads, plate carrier setup, oh the usual

[@gaiusgracchus7759]

A little sus to say "PwT makes monk's own damage irrelevant" since now we need to justify Monk over Ranger (Gloomstalker outdamages and brings *more* utility) or Druid (full caster). Not a discussion monk wishes to enter.

[@celphiro9372]

Exactly. Once you use PWT, you only have 3 ki left over for a fight, which can easily be spent in the first round. A gloomstalker can use PWT and still have perma-advantage in darkness + Dread Ambusher without whining for short rests.

[@fadeleaf845]

It's not the weakest class, but still the third weakest

[@gaiusgracchus7759]

@@fadeleaf845 Rogue, Monk, Barbarian are all just *bleh*. Playable at low/no optimization tables but it's really hard to justify them over any alternative when you break down the numbers.

[@gaiusgracchus7759]

@@celphiro9372 Like, I agree with the principle that PwT is a spell any party should try to include, but Shadow Monk is probably the worst way to do so - ki is such a stranglehold of a mechanic as you've shown.

[@zephyrrrr4813]

@@gaiusgracchus7759 there is at least one really good rogue build but in the other 2 cases yea

[@RJM1410]

I love that the stealth assassin idea can still work as tou can cast silemce so that your musket doesnt alert the enemies. Really cool

[@SneakyBeaky1]

I wonder if the musket ball would break the sound barrier immediately upon leaving the silence, thus alerting everybody immediately to the monk's location.

[@RJM1410]

@@SneakyBeaky1 so from google, it does break the sound barrier, but id assume thatd haopen upon firing, so still within the silence

[@crowsenpai5625]

@@SneakyBeaky1 musket balls are fast, but they aren’t supersonic. Depending on what they hit they’d probably still make a good amount of sound though, unless you hit something soft. Like loose dirt, or sand, or the flesh of your enemies.

[@SneakyBeaky1]

@@crowsenpai5625 depends on the load too, some an just break the sound barrier

[@jcama2412]

It should really say something about WotC writing/game making that the mathematical best option following RAW is to ignore features.

[@nessesaryschoolthing]

What, like that they didn't write their roleplaying game with high level optimization in mind?

[@gabrielseller6434]

Let's gooooooo! I been waiting for this all morning

[@DrMDHyde]

Be a monk, get a gun, congrats you’re now a ninja.

[@simoneval2619]

a very loud ninja.

[@spacehitler4537]

@@simoneval2619 Doesn't matter how loud you are if everyone you want to kill is now dead.

[@asheronwindspear552]

@@simoneval2619 believe it

[@sorlockholmes2311]

As the discussion about ranged Monks has gone on, the more I've been convinced that it's the best way to play a Monk. I imagine a Monk sniper running up the side of a building to set up shots on the roof, or running up a tree and hanging from a branch by his legs. This strategy mitigates the low AC issue, takes advantage of wallrunning in combat, and even lets you make frequent use of Slow Fall. A Cleric dip (War or Forge Domains seem like the best options) provides the spellcasting feature, allowing a Shadow Monk to pick up Eldritch Adept (Devil's Sight) for Darkness shenanigans. Aside from the usual Advantage this combo offers, a Shadow Monk can also freely teleport within their own Darkness at Monk 6. An archer Shadow Monk seems really good in Tiers 1 and 2, on par with half-casters. In higher tiers, I'd expect true half-casters to pull ahead, but I'd bet this Monk still has an edge over non-caster martials, with maybe the exception of Echo Knight.

[@gatonegroloco]

Man. Haven’t thought about a gun monk in a long time. Though I was going more for a melee CQC style fighter.

[@celphiro9372]

Hard to remember, but I think Bilbrons and Dragons made a "john wick monk" that used a crossbow in melee.

[@cyspeth39]

Gunk is king. If your DM is using the Iron Kingdoms setting or source books from privateer press they expand on this with the monk path Way of the Gun. I think it closes some of the gaps here. 3rd level: when you do flurry of blows, replace one unarmed attack with firearm that has the light property. (Note: magazines exist in this book but ignore loading anyway w/ feat). Also 3rd: firearms = monk weapons. Gain prof with s/m pistols or rifles. 6th: 1st time dealing damage w/ firearms each turn, add martial arts die to damage. Also when windy step, impose disadvantage on ranged attacks, and patient defence gains piercing damage resist. (Much maligned) 11th: bonus action ignore up to 3/4 cover and disadvantage to long range. 17th: aim hacks and bouncing bullets. I think this subclass really fills in some gaps if your DM allows 3rd party books. You can be in melee and it's actually worth it, better at long range too. At my tables I honestly just homebrew out the Ki costs for dodge and disengage since rogues get it free anyway, so this is basically a shortcut to putting John Wick or equilibrium gun katas in your game

[@migueldelmazo5244]

April 1st? The best use of a monk is by the necromancer after the three failed death saves. I'm (mostly) kidding folks. Put the torches and pitchforks down, folks. :)

[@PackTactics]

The real april fools video is on my community page. I recommend you watch it.

[@serserendipity6333]

I ended up making a Githzerai Gunk by complete accident for my first ever 5E character: built a pretty straightforward Monk for Tomb of Annihilation in the expectation they’d die before too long, but even though they were knocked down to 0 HP over 20 times on the journey they recently made it to Omu and to Level 8 and picked up Gunner to take advantage of a bevy of firearms and gunpowder supplies the party picked up along the way that no one could actually use. That was only three weeks ago, so pretty funny timing to see this video pop up so soon after when I was looking around and hadn’t seen much of any discussion of gun-monks in the usual spaces. Stunning Strike to meet the Ki-Expenditure requirement followed by two point blank shots to the face (with advantage!) is both pretty powerful and a hilarious mental image.

[@connor712]

Won't this burn through your ki at lightspeed? At level 5 you have 5 ki, minus 2 for pass without trace. That leaves 3 ki for two or three uses of focused aim and ki-fueled. If we assume you optimize by only using focused aim once per turn to maximize the number of bonus action attacks your ki buys you and we assume that focused aim will guarantee a hit, and that you only need to spend 1 ki, your dpr for those three turns is 37.875 [20.5+(41*.4)+(.05*19.5)]. Making similar assumptions about a CBE/SS battlemaster fighter (precision guarantees one hit per turn), they can do about 35 dpr [17.5+(35*.5)] for four turns and 52.5 [17.5+(70*.5)] on a turn with action surge. Gunk doesn't exactly compete with the archetypal big damage build in sustain or burst, but the utility of pass without trace probably outweighs the meager utility from other bm maneuvers. The disparity in damage yawns rather wide if you assume we're fighting for more than a few rounds per short rest. I won't bother with the math but it's easy to see since the fighter build can make ba attacks all day and night. tl;dr Good damage for a few rounds and then your socks will return to their rightful position on your feet.

[@PackTactics]

No matter what you do, you will burn those ki fast but this is one of the most conservative way to do it and you have a huge justification for short rest demands thats as great as a warlock. Gunks absolutely does compete with the big builds, they boost those big damage builds by 2 times the average damage because of short rest pass without trace. What other martial build can boost the whole team's preformance by two fold? I can tell you a straight battlemaster can't do that.

[@shaness112233]

I saw "Gunk", and I thought "Grappler monk", which is my absolute favorite build. Expertise in athletics on a shadow monk is such a sniper. You want to control the enemy caster? Cast Darkness on yourself and go grapple them, shove them prone, and drag them to your front lines. Grappler monk is not a DPS build, but it absolutely locks down specific targets while always having an exit strategy. Also, Stunning Strike is a Ki trap, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Anything you want to stun will be able to resist it most times.

[@t.b.cont.]

Looking at Chinese and Japanese history it’s lore accurate too

[@jk2782]

The way I see it, instead of fighter 1 after monk 5 you get ranger 2 to get the archery feature which also gives the favoured foe optional feature and not only some smites but also the hunters mark spell and another level nets gloom stalker or go rogue 1 for even more damage dice, or even fighter to pick up that sweet superiority dice for whatever you're having trouble with at level 8-9. With your turn being 3 attacks at 1d12(base)+1d6(hunters mark) and also a +2 to attack rolls, I think ranger 2 is the better move after monk 5 and you only have to wait 1 more level for the +2 to ranged. Either that or with a feat you pick up hunters mark but that means you only get 1 use a day. Either way, hunters mark would be great here. From there, rogue assassin 3 for free crits in surprise round, and your first one has +2d6 damage stapled to it, which also multiplies on a crit, the other 2 levels in fighter for superiority dice and the other stuff. From there pick up asi or feats for the next couple levels? Dunno, maybe the rest in fighter or rogue. Maybe level 5 in fighter and rogue which leaves you with 1 level left and you can spend it on fighter for the last class asi or put it somewhere else. It's a fairly modular build, slotting things in when you need them instead of having a clear trail to follow. Actually quite similar to real monks who each follow their own path to reach enlightenment.

[@azurethescaletipper210]

For any Monk who does not want to use a gun (or can’t), there is the Mobile feat which further increases speed, makes Dashes remove the cost of difficult terrain, and most importantly remove the risk of opportunity attacks if you attack someone, hit or miss. It does cost a feat, which does not help the MAD case of the Monk, and Gunk is probably still better due to the power of range, but this is an option.

[@ATMOSK1234]

Mounts give you free action disengage and insane movement extremely cheaply

[@FallenFromGlory]

Mobile is bad, do not do this people. Buy mounts.

[@HolyJunkie]

I had an idea recently where you go Mastermind Rogue for three levels so you can use Help as a bonus action with a 30ft. range. Then get Devil's Sight via Eldritch Adept, Then you cast Darkness on an object you're carrying and you keep around 30ft. from your frontline fighters. (15ft. radius for darkness so you avoid sabotaging allies who don't have magic darkvision) You always have advantage on your attacks and you can give any one of your allies advantage on their attack with a bonus action. It might be a bit convoluted and this gunk build is absolutely much easier to bring online. Also casting Darkness via Shadow Monk lets you use Ki-fuelled attack

[@b.b.927]

Can't get Eldritch Adept without having the actual Spellcasting/Pact Magic feature.

[@HolyJunkie]

@@b.b.927 Oh dang, you're absolutely right. Nothing a few levels in Ranger can't solve, but that does put a damper on getting that idea online ASAP.

[@kamenridertheblueknight5313]

I have a question, I have a character idea that’ll eventually be a level 12 gunslinger fighter and level 8 kensei monk and want some advice on how to optimize this.

[@yamatohekatsue9143]

As a note for anyone wanting to take this build goblin is a great pick for race +2 dex +1 con, and they gain a constant disengage or hide as a bonus action. Fury of the small gives a 1/rest small damage bonus. Yes you don't start with the gunner feat but you got 4 levels to get a firearm and take the feat this shouldn't be to hard. Then go shadow monk, this lets you not need ki to get away from enemies as well as doing your level as damage when you crit as well as being small sized but getting a 30 ft move speed.

[@carminegraves]

lol this is the build im running now except my monk uses a concealed pistol and just shoots people in the back of the head. cheers :D

[@gaminlover11]

I used this idea for a pirate campaign I'm in except I went full monk. I am now the captain of the crew, and within 2 weeks (in game) we went from freshly new pirates to being hunted by the world for killing some heros that happened to be on another pirate shp that we looted, got a bounty of 688,500,000gp (and still going up), trapped the King as well as his right hand in rule and his other dragon slaying friend of the most powerful kingdom in the world into a demiplane that they can't escape, robbed that same kingdoms vault of tons of platinum and all their magic weapons, stole the kings ship after our previous ship was sunk, landed many beautiful shots from afar with my Tabaxi gunk zoomin all around the place, and overall got a legendary story/reputation as well as an upcoming battle with Blackbeard to be named King of Pirates. 10/10 would Gunk again. Also we're raising dragons, that part's unrelated but always cool to mention.

[@smile-tl9in]

i mean....You may as well play a ranger with crossbow expert. You'd get pass without traces. If you want mobility take ritual caster and learn phantom steed

[@luiiz2138]

yeah, like any class can do better than monk at any situation, the only really good feature monks have is stunning strike, in which ranged monks can't do without going into melee.

[@cattiston374]

@@luiiz2138 which sadly there are much better control spells out there, Hideous Laughter, Hold Person, hell, even Levitate that targets the same save, CON! And if you levitate a melee creature the spell ends up being “Summon Piñata” that’s harder to save because you’re not a MAD class 😭 Also, Mind Sliver exist. Well, I guess this cantrips would be great for stunning strike…

[@aquartertwo]

6:52 Forge Cleric is also a good option going into Tier 3 with Shadow Monk if you aren't given a magical gun/ammo. Your unarmed strikes do magical damage, but your gun doesn't. You also get Identify as a ritual, and 2 casts of Bless per day.

[@anniedarkheart5224]

We have a monk doing this but with Longbow and Kensei. Allowing them to spend a Ki during attack without needing a miss. We have some players that like failing stealth checks so it sounds like Kensei was the right choice for our group.

[@Apfeljunge666]

Kensei is the better choice imo. Pack tactics massively overvalues how effective PWT is in actual gameplay. its not a surprise round generator.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@Apfeljunge666 I don't actually see it. Looking at kensai in the context of this build, the only relevant feature is being able to spend ki to do 1d6 more damage on a single attack per turn. You're already taking fighter for archery so the proficiency feature doesn't matter and you're already using your bonus action for attacks so the "use a bonus action for an extra 1d4 damage" will only have extremely niche uses... unless I'm missing something.

[@SybilantSquid]

@@kevingriffith6011 Ki-fueled strikes. Use your bonus action to make another attack with your bow.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@SybilantSquid Yeah. That's something all the monks get, not just kensai. In fact, that's the reason I'm not factoring their "spend a bonus action for 1d4 extra damage per attack this turn" ability. Kobold already said that focused aim will be the source of your spent ki for this bonus action attack. This *does* mean that you'll be able to get your bonus action attack on a hit... but with two attacks and sharpshooter, are you really hitting all your attacks every turn without spending ki? I admit, this raises your potential maximum damage and makes your bonus action attack more reliable, but I still don't know if it's worth losing the utility. Edit: had to do a few edits to refine my points because I was being a dum-dum and not catching your actual meaning.

[@anniedarkheart5224]

@@kevingriffith6011 Kensei allows you to spend Ki during your attack round when you don't miss. There's also a bunch more irrelevant benefits in tables that don't use Firearms, like ours.

[@janthehuman1679]

There’s also the shuriken monk build that works pretty well with the Tasha’s features. Basically, you use Darts or other thrown weapons and take the Fighting Initiate feat at level 1 to get the Thrown Weapon Fighting style, effectively increasing your weapons’ damage dice by two degrees. Pairing this with Shadow Monk makes incredible use of the Ki-Fueled Strikes feature, while also being incredibly flavorful as a literal ninja build. Another thing to note is that Darts are technically thrown weapons, finesse weapons, AND ranged weapons, meaning they can benefit from Sharpshooter, the Archery fighting style, AND Rogue’s Sneak Attack. They can even be used with Strength instead of Dex, if one is so inclined. Daggers, Handaxes, and other simple thrown weapons aren’t as good, but they serve as a good stop-gap in the early levels before you get access to Sharpshooter, since they also function as thrown weapons that can also be thrown as a bonus action due to Two-Weapon Fighting rules. Battlemaster Fighter also synergizes well with this build, since you can take the Quick Throw maneuver to throw a dart easily on turns where you don’t spend a ki point during your action, and you gain access to bonuses to your damage when you use your Maneuvers in general. Overall, the shuriken Monk is probably not as good as a Gunk, but there definitely is a lot of optimization space to be had with thrown weapons thanks to all the support for the archetype provided in Tasha’s. Combining this with Gloomstalker Ranger also creates a pretty good set of options, too. You get access to yet another Fighting Style, which you can use to gain Blind Fighting. This synergizes pretty well with the Shadow Monk’s Darkness spell, allowing you to actually have advantage against most, if not all, enemies within the spell’s effect when you cast it. Since you don’t have to see to hit your enemies, you can effectively become invisible and with the Gloomstalker’s Umbral Sight feature, you can even remain hidden from enemies that rely on Devil’s Sight to see through your magical darkness. So yeah, lots of really flavorful multiclassing options for a ninja character that actually make for really strong builds. 😁

[@mongodroid4842]

couldn't you start as a fighter and get thrown weapon fighting from there and using a feat to take something like sharpshooter

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

Elven Monk: "after three decades cloistered in the mountains, I have FINALLY mastered this weapon! With it my kensei by my side, you, oh foolish overlord, shall stand no chance!" Combat begins BBEG gets FUCKIN' BLASTED. "Just as I said. Well faught, mighty foe, but you stood no chance against my Monasterial Mastery."

[@curnott6051]

Dwarf Artificer:"... Ya still owe me fifty gold for da gun ye know."

[@rachdarastrix5251]

@@curnott6051 Elven Monk: **Pretending not to know Dwarvish* "I know I know, that still only counts as one."

[@nicholascasey6473]

Take 2 levels in grave domain cleric, 4 levels in assasin rouge(more to get higher sneak attack), and 6 levels in monk. Be a haringon with the alert, gunner, and sharpshooter feat. Alert Haringon at level 4 has a +11 to initiative with 18 dex, likely going first. Action, Channel divinity path to grave; Going by definition of Ki-Fueled attack, shoot as part of action for ki using bonus action and expend more ki to get the hit. Most likely you will get a vulnerability boosted sneak attack critical hit. Damage on a hit would be 2d12+4d6+10+8 doubled, absolute minimum of 48 damage. Most likely you will have a magic or even a vicious weapon(hopefully being the musket). Being level 20, dedicating the remaining class levels into assasin rouge, would have sneak attack be 6d6(7d6 if you drop one level of monk). Making the new total 2d12+14d6+10+8 doubled, with the new absolute minimum being 68 damage (absolute maximum of 168). These might be wrong calculations and I am not factoring in every addition or detriment to these numbers such as using cleric spell before battle or anything in monk.

[@MrJjk1000]

I find it funny how different your take to the gunk is so different to Treantmonks

[@PackTactics]

Optimization would be kind of boring if everyone agreeed.

[@MrJjk1000]

Indeed

[@tibot4228]

Treantmonk was mostly focused on a pure monk build. Even in his gunk case, you abandon ship after a few levels and dip into several other classes.

[@americanpidgeot6486]

PT: *mentions the paladin in full plate having stealth disadvantage* Me, who loves paladins: *looks away angrily*

[@Year2047]

Peace Cleric!? This is all an April Fool's Joke on Treantmonk, isn't it?

[@thebitterfig9903]

Peace Cleric is well established as a strong dip, granting essentially Aid for free. Monks already have the wisdom, so it'd be easy to weave in.

[@AndrewCreswell]

"I'm not equipped to do it, I'm too dumb!" I love you Mr pack tactics

[@ninnusridhar]

I just like imagining a meeting of monks. Theres these ancient looking masters with Bo staffs and rope darts and dao swords. And one dude with a big f*****g musket on his back. Plus this is literally gunfu Btw, a musket can double as a staff(just saying)

[@FlatlandsSurvivor]

I do like that this also allows Stunning strike into bonus action melee shot. That just sounds pretty fun.

[@nexelray3207]

You smash their face in with the back of the musket, brilliant. 👌

[@ninnusridhar]

@@FlatlandsSurvivor Yeah! And i dont see why you couldnt make a melee attack with your musket as a staff, stunning strike that, then immediately shoot as extra attack, and then bonus action shoot again. And you can happily do sharpshooter. That's literally one of the coolest things i can imagine. Something straight out of the matrix or one piece Just discuss it with the dm before hand. I'm sure they'd be fine with it

[@bwhit7919]

Don’t discount clever usage of the darkness and silence spells. You can cast Darkness and teleport to it. You Things get crazy if you adopt the blind fighting fighting style. This will effectively give you advantage on all attacks and give enemies disadvantage to hit you. And perhaps more importantly, you won’t provoke opportunity attacks. You effectively have permanent disengage, permanent dodge, and a bonus action teleport for 2 ki. You can rush in, deliver a stunning strike, and run out. Beyond this, as monks (especially shadow monks) have insane mobility, you won’t have to worry about the darkness spell interfering with your party. Silence would go well with Gloom Stalker. You’re already invisible if you’re in darkness. If you also make no sound, I believe that this gives you permanent hidden status. If you multiclass with fighter, I would go eldritch knight. This will give you access to the shield spell. Between permanent disadvantage and the shield spell, you fix the Monk’s durability problem. Beyond this, the Eldritch Knight’s ribbon ability lets you summon a weapon to your hand. There’s nothing preventing you from casting darkness on a weapon. You can cast darkness ahead of a combat on your weapon and then summon it to your hand, effectively casting darkness as a bonus action. You can throw your dagger, cast darkness on it, and then return your dagger to your hand, bringing your darkness back to you. Alternatively, you could go Arcane Archer. There’s also nothing stopping you from picking up crossbow expert if you want to save your Ki for utility purposes. In fact, I would probably recommend doing this. If you go Gloom Stalker 5, you get rope trick, guaranteeing a short rest. Better yet, if you have an ally with rope trick, you can get a guaranteed short rest without going to Gloom Stalker 5. Here’s the best part about the gunk: you have so many options for how you could build it. You could focus on nova damage, you could focus on mobility, you could focus on control. This is what the monk has been missing. The monk is oftentimes criticized for not having options, but the Gunk proves that wrong. Edit: I realize that this is an April Fools joke but I think my reasoning still stands.

[@lipeeefl]

Haven't watched the video yet, but didn't treantmonk debunk the gunk?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

We're not really saying conflicting things. I pointed out that an archery monk doesn't do great damage if damage is all you do if you use my assumptions. PT is saying that the damage is good enough if you can combine it with facilitating surprise on enemies.

[@adrastos8401]

look at the date

[@naturalkind5591]

If you play with 4 combats per short rest and can never work out the AC of your targets, yes.

[@amulrei8149]

The only thing that it took to make Monks decent was *a literal gun.* ...And putting most of your levels in another class.

[@PackTactics]

You can say that to every martial really.

[@amulrei8149]

@@PackTactics I would say most other martial classes are functional enough on their own. Though I won't deny the application of available firearms can sure make them better!

[@PackTactics]

@@amulrei8149 This works with a hand crossbow too btw but then you have to start fighter 1 and then progress as a monk from there. This also works with Kensei and maybe mercy but no one has looked at mercy proper yet.

[@bensonfitch6697]

I love the Monk/Rouge build. Ultra stealthy, awesome mobility, and overall a lot of fun, especially with the Way of Shadow.

[@datzgoat3132]

The best way to get a musket at level 1 is simply picking up the gladiator background. It lets you pick a bunch of weapons and musket is one of the options

[@evanboeckh5033]

It's worth noting that the gladiator background specifies an "inexpensive but unusual weapon". Firearms are unusual but those offered in the DMG are far from inexpensive so it'd have to be a discussion with your DM. I considered this when I tried building a gunk, watching the intro to Treantmonk's video (before I even realized that he was going to cover the exact same build I wanted to do) but was stopped at that caveat. I'd let it slide in my games since guns would be hard enough to come by anyways.

[@rainhoo4096]

This might be my new favorite channel

[@J0eMega]

Ironically enough, from what I’ve heard, monks are the most powerful they’ve ever been, as they’ve been downright trash in every previous edition that included them.

[@RandallSavage]

3.5 monk was an excellent 2 level dip so long as you didn't care about paying the xp penalty for multiclassing. Full monks weren't great, but if you took a level of barbarian for pounce, 2 levels of monk, and then 17 levels of a psionic class and the tashalatora feat that let you add psionic levels to monk abilities, you made an excellent monk.

[@csp5578]

"I'm not equipped to do it, I'm too dumb." lol

[@OPSDK]

a-april fools?

[@HazySkies]

I mean, Martial Arts allows you to do an unarmed strike as a bonus action when attacking with a monk weapon or unarmed strike anyways, so there's no reason to use any Ki at all. The Ki-fuelled attack feature introduced by Tasha's is pretty subclass specific. Where is useful for abilities where Ki is used to create an effect using your action and still be able to deliver an extra unarmed strike (even though you didn't specifically use the Attack action) because you spent Ki on that turn. This feature is mostly for Way of Shadow, Way of Sun Soul and Way of Elements.

[@olivegardenlesbian2954]

I'm glad that someone is finally pointing out this build and we can get past the meme that monks are irredeemably bad

[@mozartdminor]

I think monks are bad if you're short rest constrained (like Treantmonk assumes with his 4 combats per SR). If you have your resources and don't need to worry about spending them then they can be quite good.

[@BennysGamingAttic]

The Gunk: "I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. Smells like inner peace."

[@johnarnold8485]

I have some fairly complex thoughts about the idea of this build, especially at low level, but it's basically a relevant for me. In period in almost 15 years of playing DND I have never DMed or been in a party that had a DM that had firearms as a part of the campaign

[@PackTactics]

Strange. I see a lot of guns actually. But to be honest, that makes the game very fun because my experience is vastly different from yours, you know?

[@ltphantomknight8942]

I enjoy my Monk/cleric multiclass Sometimes it's way of long death and grave domain, sometimes it's war and kensei, Shadow and twilight/or trickery combo. It's fun

[@exomancer3632]

It should be noted that even with Pass Without Trace some DM's will rule that a creature with direct line of sight to you sees you anyway. This ruling is RAW, even if it isn't always fun.

[@naturalkind5591]

Similarly, there are often ways to break this

[@derekseaton4412]

My current thoughts on the way I will build this: Mountain Dwarf War Cleric 1/Kensai Monk 6 Get Gunner Feat at Monk 4 (5th level) but use a Longbow until I get the feat. Starting 17s in Dex/Con, wear heavy armor, use War Cleric bonus action attacks for additional attacks until later. Take Kensai if only to use One With the Blade to get an extra bonus action attack when I manage to hit with every attack and already used my War cleric Attacks. Dunno what I would do after 7th level… maybe take Samurai.

[@thomaswillems6384]

Monks may be underpowered in optimization, but man can they wreck ass in non-optimized parties… in my game, the monk player is definitely the strongest character to deal with in combat, and she’s playing way of the four elements, which is considered a bad subclass…

[@TheNaturalnuke]

Monks have such little reliance on subclasses, everything important is in the base class. The ability to be anywhere they need and extra attacks make them surprisingly good at control

[@khepridixon2754]

Okay so I have to share my current character, she's jank but I've been having tons of fun with her Just hit 6th level, fully into Astral Self monk. Race is Kalashtar but flavored as a human variant cause DM made a complete custom setting. The jank is that i unintentionally built her as a grappler/gunk hybrid, and in a party with 4 casters and a rune knight we kind of accidentally created a heavy burst/control comp. My thoughts: gunk is actually cracked for the reason nobody remembers. Having a weapon-focused monk build allows ☆magic items☆ to enter the picture, which is where most martial get their dpr boost anyways. Even without magic items, it's a ranged backup on a grappler, cause fights never happen in a vacuum. Sometimes you're fighting an enemy in the water with 30' reach, or getting ganked by giant birds on a sheer cliff while rocks are pelted at you from above. Adaptability is the biggest boon of this character, and I'm probably at least gonna go for my subclass capstone, maybe higher. Also I always forget that at 18th base monks get a 4 ki greater invisibility?

[@nerfherder5211]

Hm, sounds not so valuable to use ki for other things than PWT unless high level full monk tbh. Doesn't really sound like this is any special. I do support this as a supportive character. Calculating dpr on the other classes using equal weapon just doesn't make this shine in any way :\ But keep mind a multiclassed monk will not be able to use PWT AND ki for precision so I just dont see the possibility to use any monk features here really. And will so little ki, let's not use it to calculate damage like we had precision because then there are no other ki features useful anyway. Are we also using it to attack with bonus action? And every miss? Like we're burning 1-2 ki per turn minimum. Nah I dont like this, it doesn't outperform any other great bow build really and ALL of it's abilities narrowed down into ki >_< But hey you get to wear a monk toga and still be kind of armoured. Nice. BM --> GS in particular is a strong bow user. But even just a straight fighter is a strong bow user.

[@aristotle29]

I have a player right now who is kind of running this build, only a little different and a bit suboptimal (kensei). However, we were thinking about getting her the eldrich claw tattoo so that she could turn that ability on and then use flurry of blows from 15 feet away, giving her 4 attacks at 4th level: two with the gun (one with ki fueled strike) and two more for 2d4+10 +2d6 damage. SUre that's once per day, but when it happens I think it will do great damage.

[@aaronbold8715]

Oh yay, wow, another sharpshooter build… I love that the meta on damage completely revolves around GWM and SS, it makes builds so varied and diverse.

[@deanofett]

Always has been. This is why I never play martials anymore. Or if I do, I simply don't optimize and just try some nonsense instead.

[@kroth5810]

I mean at a certain point you can argue that all martial builds are just rolling dice to see if you hit then rolling damage. The fun part is the flavor you build around the characters and how you use additional class features to do things other than damage and help your team. Flavor is free, even if you take gwm or sharpshooter you don't have to use a great weapon or a bow.

[@thebitterfig9903]

It really gets quite depressing and rather boring. Nearly anything which can't use either SS or GWM can't compete. Once you have SS/GWM, you need bonus action attack. I like Treantmonk's homebrew: all Attack Action attacks can use -5/+10, but you'd need the relevant feat to get it on bonus attacks or at other timings. Now, all weapons have solid baseline damage, so the marginal gain of SS+CBE or GWM+PAM is a lot lower.

[@naturalkind5591]

For martials totally. But druid and cleric and warlock all beat this easily and none of them use SS.

[@12oranges]

I've seen this build passed around the tabletopbuilds crowd and I hate it. It might work in a permissive mini wargaming type game where every interaction with the rules is codified, but this isn't a real build at the tables I play dnd at. Those have DMs that play with a well fleshed out and deep campaign where you can't just come around and ask for a musket. Well you can, but you ain't getting it in those games. Then the flow of the story might not accommodate for short rests a the rate the underlying math supports and ... where have all the ki points gone ? The only insight here imo is that shadow monk is undervalued and can be a good support. But this build is so fringe when I compare it to the games I've played in, it doesn't in the slightest convince me monks aren't the worst in 5e.

[@aa6731]

I feel like there's a decent build out there that combines goblin bonus action hide, and eldritch blast. Since eldritch blast's beams all strike simultaneously, casting it from stealth would theoretically give you advantage on each attack with the beams (since they are all the first attack you make). Not sure how viable this is, but it'd probably be fun.

[@-Xabash-]

Making a monk that is not a "monk" makes the best monk. 😂

[@PackTactics]

Its a monk! It has Monk levels!

[@-Xabash-]

@@PackTactics I absolutely agree, just pointing out that the best monk is barely a "monk". The build and theory crafting is fantastic, monk base class just leaves some things to be designed. :)

[@-Xabash-]

@@PackTactics it's just ironic in a sense :D

[@naturalkind5591]

No duh, punching stuff in a game with weapons is not great

[@andrewmandrona7891]

I remember using pass without trace when I (ranger with expertise in stealth) and a rogue who also had expertise in stealth both got natural ones and still managed to sneak through.

[@syrupchugger421]

Now this is a monk I could get behind. Thanks for this!

[@dairelawless9472]

Ahh I'm playing one of these it's great fun, I'm interested to see where you go with the build.

[@AngelCanseco1]

13:55 thts when you get the mobile feat, you don’t take opportunity attacks from enemies you’ve meleed and get an extra ten ft of movement. Kind of reminds me of red crush from Omni man, before he got grabbed he was dashing in and out of melee and doing tons of damage. Monks are hella speedy and having 50ft at lvl 4 sounds great personally. Also even if you miss that melee attack, you can still freely move away from enemies youve hit with a melee attack, wonder if that works with a sweeping type of attack if you multiclass into fighter or just use your extra attack plus flurry of blows to attack multiple enemies if you are surrounded and then be able to retreat.

[@PackTactics]

Mobile sucks when horses and mules can disengage for you.

[@AngelCanseco1]

@@PackTactics As a kobold, it is too chilly here and i must cut open beebo, i'm so sorry beebo the 7th

[@jameswallaby867]

Hahahah I have an NPC named Sazerac that’s a warforged gunslinging monk… He uses guns as his monk weapons and, gloriously owns a saloon that only appears late in dungeons. He’s level 20 or 40 (depending on party level and how strong he has to be to compensate for party level). Anyways it’s a ton of fun to have a quick firing saloon owner with a tavern piano in his chest.

[@CalifornianCuttlefish]

To be honest using a modern weapon would be better because according to Wikidot they don't have a cost so you can use an automatic pistol or something as a monk weapon so basically flavor wise the monk can become Neo from the Matrix

[@fadeleaf845]

I'd definitely want the 6th Monk level at 7 because I like the teleportation feature. Eldritch Adept into Devil's Sight is another fun feature to possibly dip into, but that is mostly insurance for when you fail to get surprise. It's definitely the Rogue or the Barbarian that is the weakest - the former if you're in a party that is fighting in melee, the latter if you're not.

[@UEGDonkey]

Eldritch adept requires the spell casting or pact magic feature, also you don’t have the ASI because you need gunner at 1 and sharpshooter at 4.

[@benry007]

Rogues get compensated with cool utility features. while the monk does get utility feature they are less useful to the party in my opinion.