Gut Feeling? Has the Boat Gone Quiet? | The West Wing

[@bobbyhardeman9206]

Hal Holbrook played the Captain of The Pueblo in a TV movie in the 70s. "I was there" line was perfect.

[@heideleskun1163]

I've never heard of that movie nor the incident. Then again in 1973 I was 7. My folks were older (1922/1928 basically a surprise adoption being my dad was over 40 when I was born) so I know Hal Holbrook but if that movie was on tv I was too young to know. Thank you for that information.

[@richardpape5546]

It was an excellent tv movie. Especially for TV. But the actual event was even more dire. It showed how much the US was at least a little intimidated by North Korea. We didn't just in and go balls to the wall we are going to rescue the crew. I believe the Capt name was Lloyd Buchner. I was only 11 but I remember the incident clearly. At the height of the Viet Nam War. I recall the North Korean propaganda footage of the crew forced denouncing America. They looked beaten. I remember my naive thoughts of why don't we just invade and get our troops back. The first time I felt the United States was not as powerful as it once was. I really didn't understand the human life factor.

[@paprgl]

Thanks for that great detail.

[@xaenon]

@@heideleskun1163 The USS Pueblo was siezed by NK and is still on display there as a ''tropy'.

[@geoffrose9647]

Dr. McNally was the epitome of a cool-headed advisor who never had to raise their voice. Loved that character and the performance by Anna Deavere Smith.

[@iandhr1]

You cut off the greatest part of this episode. Bartlet; "Where's the damn submarine Nancy? I don't want to hear I don't know I want to hear how many people you got swimming around looking for it" Nancy: "See and I thought you were going to panic sir"

[@cameron120587]

Later on, Albie is giving them more details about submarines but they stop because Bartlet starts banging his head on the desk “Oh my god, am I still here?”

[@Laneous14]

'You lost your boat in the wrong part of the world, Mr. President.'

[@seanwebb605]

@@Laneous14 Well if it was in Cleveland they wouldn't have called him in to talk about it.

[@Saffetree]

And thus was born one of the world's greatest gifs.

[@BlackBarney]

"Lake George" lol

[@googoo-gjoob]

i rollllled

[@aspenhill1479]

To be fair, there are submarines active in Lake George. It must be true! Spent many an evening watching for them to surface.. .

[@canaras5584]

Tell em what? "You've got Cassus Belli?" For some reason this is one of my fav lines in the series

[@robinps52]

“It’s a little thing called Latin.” 😉

[@swainscheps]

@@robinps52 “Causes Belli” - “Albie your Latin pronunciation sucks. I think you mean Casus (rhymes with Cassius as in Clay) Belli”

[@GBTCO2b]

"Settle down". Two words, delivered with perfection. And a little bit more Latin.

[@NestorCaster]

The line about the constitutional line of succession, ALWAYS KILLS ME!

[@midwestmutineer7675]

Nancy McNally needed a bigger role on this show. Anna Deavere Smith played her so well!!

[@DeusExMJ12]

Agreed! Her exchange with Admiral "Sissy Mary" Fitzwallace in "20 Hours in America" is hilarious 😂

[@deansapp4635]

I thought Anna was hot.

[@georgemyers9125]

I agree with you, as I think she was woefully underused on that series. In fact, I believe her character would have been a better choice for WH Ch of Staff, than the character of CJ. Craig.

[@ADFeldbauer]

She served President Andrew Shepard earlier in her life (The American President)

[@veramae4098]

Notice how often the President adds these little requests when asking Charlie for something? "A copy of the Constitution order of succession." "A gun to kill people with" was another one.

[@joemckim1183]

And Charlie never does the full orders of the President, never bringing the second part.

[@1skyofrog]

I was on a business trip to Pueblo, Colorado about 11 years ago. The crew were having a reunion. They are still pissed.

[@heddalee]

Who what?

[@LordOfNothingreally]

Well, if anyone tortured me, it would probably be some time before I decided to forgive and forget

[@xaenon]

@@heddalee He's referring to the crew of the USS Pueblo. NK still has possession of the ship and it is on display as a trophy.

[@sallygomez8799]

I don't blame them.

[@legomaker3105]

Here’s a conversation between a smart but grumpy man who’s well versed in history, opinionated and frequently spouts Latin and another smart but grumpy man who’s well versed in history, opinionated and frequently spouts Latin.

[@A.D.0306]

Nancy's assessments were always on point.

[@NoGoodNames20]

The situation room is by nature a place where you mostly only get bad news

[@seanwebb605]

Sometimes there is birthday cake.

[@KellySedinger]

Later on Albie makes the President bang his own head on his own desk, if anyone who hasn't seen this is watching and is wondering if it gets better for Bartlet....

[@pinverarity]

Enjoyable character, ludicrous dialogue & scene.

[@ahmetbakisenayl3950]

Experience can be intimidating ☺️

[@Gypsyknight-ob1tn]

And during the Pueblo incident, the United States, when called upon by US Pueblo for help, did NOTHING. After being being freed with his crew, The captain of the Pueblo faced a court martial but was relegated to some far off desk job.

[@thecommexokid]

Please please please upload the NEA discussions with Tawny from this episode. “You funded his performance piece recently, which involved him destroying all his belongings outside a Starbucks in Haight-Ashbury.” “I’ve done that a couple of times…I didn’t know there was funding available.”

[@thecommexokid]

“Here’s a woman who gets naked, covers herself completely in chocolate, and sings. Does that appeal to you?” “By and large, I’m not wild about musicals.”

[@Sylvander1911]

"And a copy of the Constitutional Order of Succession" - Albie's not on it.

[@supreme_admiral1174]

Albie's 4th in the Constitutional Order of Succession as he is the second most member of Bartlet's cabinet.

[@Sylvander1911]

@@supreme_admiral1174 An Assistant Secretary is NOT in the cabinet and is NOT in the Order of Succession.

[@josephoutram3019]

@@supreme_admiral1174 Albie is the Assistant Secretary of State (as stated in the scene), so he's technically not in the line of succession. There is some debate whether an Acting Secretary would be counted as in the line of succession should it come to that, but it's not likely to be tested any time soon.

[@pympton]

How about the scene where Josh has his breakthrough in therapy.

[@bobbobuckley54]

Lake George hahahaha

[@develynseether4426]

Too-tall McCall. Bartlett hung with her when she was Press Secretary and he was Chief of Staff

[@ADFeldbauer]

Good recognition! And Michael Douglas was in as President Andrew Shepard.

[@alexmetcalf]

Crackling dialogue sorely missing from the post-Sorkin era

[@remeshpanicker]

Yes!

[@robinps52]

And brilliant ensemble acting!

[@benjamun1121]

Leo asking "We don't talk to the North Koreans?" actually requires suspension of disbelief for me to take the rest seriously since it's the impetus for the whole conversation. The idea that he wouldn't know that - considering everything he does know - is kind of absurd.

[@SwordVirtue]

I'm sure Albie is also in the Spielberg Lincoln movie.

[@joshuasomething529]

Yeah he played Francis Preston Blair…a figure that film portrays MUCH too kindly but that’s neither here nor there. Good movie tho

[@monizdm]

Settle down

[@FloatingOnAZephyr]

I love this show, but the idea that Leo wouldn’t know what casus belli meant is ridiculous. I know it’s for the audience, but that’s patronising to the audience too. The show rarely made this error, and it jars when you see it, which only illustrates how good the show was that it stands out so badly when it errs. That said, Leo seems to think Andromeda was a planet, so who knows!

[@trevorhardy4161]

That was the president wanting to prove to Albi that he knew what it meant

[@uliwidmaier5192]

Spot on. Another error that really jars is Evelyn Baker-Lang adding the title "Chief Justice" to her signature when dedicating a book to Toby's daughter -- before her nomination is officially announced. She is not at that moment the Chief Justice, and she would NEVER represent otherwise

[@aniketgarg8852]

​@@uliwidmaier5192 doesn't she specifically call this out and the president tells her it's not premature

[@as_dust_dances]

​@@uliwidmaier5192That's literally covered off on the episode....

[@uliwidmaier5192]

A federal judicial nominee does nit become a federal judge, or Justice, until confirmed by a majority of the Senate. She is being NOMINATED. Now ilher confirmation may be assured. Still, until the Senate vote aftually happens, she does not hold the position. The President cannot change this. Thus we have a glaring error here.

[@dw-yl3ln]

Bartlett could never stand not being the most knowledgeable in the room. Leo should have known better than playing around with Nancy. Don’t think she has a non-serious line in the whole show.

[@francisburgess5239]

I raise you ‘Admiral Sissypants’

[@Schutzhundfun]

"Admiral Sissy Mary"

[@jessebreitbart]

I was going to mention this and thought of the whole back and forth with him!

[@heddalee]

@@dw-yl3ln Dave, have someone get clothes from my office. I look like an idiot.

[@heddalee]

@@Schutzhundfun That's a hilarious interaction.

[@BrianCarter-ph4cw]

Still in power A lot of rewiring. 10-4

[@catnipper01]

Isn't "Gone Quiet" the name of episode 6 in Season 3? I have "The Indians in the Lobby" listed as episode 7.

[@bridyyc]

Episode 6 is titled "War Crimes". "Indians in the Lobby" is 8. Episodes 2 and 3 were both named Manchester - Manchester Part 1 (episode 2) and Manchester part 2 (episode 3). Maybe that threw off the list?

[@scotthunt2479]

@@bridyyc "Gone Quiet" is Episode 6, and "Indians In The Lobby" is Episode 7, unless Wikipedia has it wrong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_West_Wing_season_3

[@idisagreewiththat]

@@bridyyc I think what threw off the list is that some sites and streaming services have Isaac and Ishmael listed as Episode 1 of Season 3, while others have it not listed as part of the regular continuity of Season 3 because it is not considered part of the show's canon.

[@kennethpaulsen5407]

wrong episode. its episode 6

[@dominicbuckley8309]

Except that under UNCLOS III, warships are allowed right of 'transit passage' through another nation's territorial waters, so long as it is done in their 'normal mode of continuous transit', and undertake no drills or exercises. That means it is perfectly legal for a submarine to pass through another nation's waters while dived - so, there would be no _causus belli._

[@macdmacd3358]

That only applies to transit through straits. If it’s not a strait, a submarine has to surface before entering territorial waters.

[@JohnSmith-gb5vg]

No it’s not, for that area; it’s not a passage zone as like an international recognized strait and, she’s submerged. The writers didn’t make the international law up or the scenario in which it applies. 12 mile limit as territorial and 200 mile limit as exclusive zone (means no warships wo permission and with escort). The sub, at 60 miles in, has neither, so as pointed out, the US is committing an act of aggression which “could” be interpreted as an act of war.

[@crashhanna]

Fun fact: the US has never ratified UNCLOS III and so is not a party to the agreement.

[@trevorhardy4161]

@@JohnSmith-gb5vgthey were also tapping into a North Korean communication line there too lol

[@JohnSmith-gb5vg]

@@trevorhardy4161 holy crap lol

[@rtl4x4]

They both pronounce "casus belli" incorrectly, which comes off poorly when Jed has to hammer it home with "a little thing called Latin"

[@craigspain2349]

I hated her character! She always had that anguished, constipated look one sees from the progressive left!

[@Rendell001]

Well, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable response....

[@itsjustme8947]

...and probably because she's black too?? But, yes, it's more likely that you're intimidated by anyone with an education. HARK! THE 'POORLY EDUCATED' MUST MAKE HIS PRESENCE KNOWN!