György Ligeti's Kammerkonzert: Analysis

[@DBruce]

Great stuff Samuel, probably my favourite piece of Ligeti and great to learn how he filtered out notes from the canon, I hadn't heard about that before. Great to see your style evolving, keep it up!

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thanks David -- I truly appreciate your kind words. I love how your channel is evolving. Good to hear from you.

[@Pretzels722]

You've definitely sparked my love for so much 20th century music. Props to you for the extra production in this video too!

[@d3a1990]

06:42 The most haunting part of Eyes Wide Shut. Just getting into Ligeti. Brilliant analysis, as always.

[@mirandac8712]

Thank you so much for this -- it is the work that opened the door to the room I've never left. Seductive indeed

[@samuel_andreyev]

miranda c Good to hear from you, and thanks! Next analysis video coming in a few days.

[@ZastilZastol]

Thank you. I love avant-garde and especially Ligeti. Thank you for observing this piece and giving such interesting analysis. It is rare to see such a beautiful content about it. Love from Russia.

[@pauldavies5611]

Wonderful analysis. Easy to understand and not cluttered by 'specialized' vocabulary so common to these types of presentations. Thank you very much!

[@marysonborges]

Was für eine Überraschung, Samuel! Dieses Video war wunderbar! Herzlichen Glückwunsch!

[@johncrwarner]

One of the things that always struck me about Ligeti's music was his sense of humour - I went to a celebration of his work on the South Bank in London - I think in 1998 - it was a celebration of his seventy fifth birthday and I haven't laughed along with a composer as much as I have with Ligeti.

[@somaland]

I was so excited when I saw you were doing a Ligeti analysis, from the moment I discovered your channel I've been hoping to hear your insights into his work and as always you delivered above and way beyond all that I hoped for. I truly hope that people in the music industry are seeing what you are doing and are taking note of how you are opening door for more people to enjoy a wide range of music. I've been immersing myself in Maryanne Amacher's work lately so that is my next "one day I hope for" analysis but I will enjoy every post regardless. Thank you.

[@MrInterestingthings]

Wonderful to be introduced to Amacher's work . Thankyou for mentioning her ! The Internet will bring ideas to every corner of the globe ! Liberality and forms of democracy are sure to follow !

[@prckrevofficialchannel1911]

I like how you focus more on the music than on the historical context compared to your previous analyses, I find that we can always research historical details if we want to but such insightful and concise analysis as yours is hard to find on the internet. Love this piece and am looking forward to the Holliger analysis, it is such an incredible one

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thanks. It's a hard balance to get right. At first I was presenting these lectures as though I were teaching in a classroom (I taught analysis in a conservatoire in France prior to starting this channel). The internet has other properties of course.

[@nicktardifbass7]

This is a great channel! I had misgivings about the Richard Wright episode, but this type of material existing on KZbin brings me a lot of joy. I look forward to your new episodes.

[@MrDmorelli]

Extremely well done analysis! amazing.I would definitely pay for an extended version where you take your time to go through all the piece, in all details. I'm thrilled I found this channel

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thanks for your message and your kind comments! If you are interested in supporting my efforts, have a look at the rewards I offer on my Patreon page: www.patreon.com/samuelandreyev

[@MrOrenledmusic]

Great work, Samuel! I appreciate these analysis videos.

[@ryancolao2878]

Please post another video soon Samuel, i’ve been checking all week, thank so much for all your hard work!

[@samuel_andreyev]

Hi Ryan. The reason for the gap in videos is that I recently had a daughter and am very preoccupied with family life at the moment. However I will be posting new content soon. Keep checking and thanks for your patience.

[@ryancolao2878]

I appreciate you responding, congratulations! I’ve come to be a bit obsessed w your analysis videos excited for your return. Thank you for your hard work, wish you all the best!

[@AnthonyDonofrioMusic]

Great video on one of my favorite pieces, Samuel. Thank you!

[@Kitsua]

Another fantastic video, thank you Samuel. Good job on the new production style!

[@henryvaughan757]

This is like an amazing composition lesson

[@devoralibros1033]

I thank you for this magnificent analysis work, it helped me a lot. I think that the way in which it initially preserves the interval sequence in canonical form gives the axis function to that whole section and when it begins to omit certain notes it does so to break with that stability that it creates for a few moments, as if it were modulating to the new retrograde version. Keep up the good work!!!! :)

[@bassoonistfromhell]

great video, every time i see one of your videos in my subscriptions it brightens my day

[@minch333]

I hadn't heard the piece before so I quickly checked it out before watching this analysis and, wow. Just wow! Just wow! Can't wait to watch this video now

[@samuel_andreyev]

Let us know what you think of the video. Glad you enjoyed the Ligeti piece.

[@minch333]

You did a fantastic job! You managed to clearly put into words things about the piece that I couldn't have explained but that I certainly felt when listening to it, like how the range of notes expands at the start, how the timbre of the instruments is used and how that pitch sequence is slowly morphed and opened up. I also really appreciate you going into so much detail about how the canon works, even showing that there is a canon in it at all, as I've never before really understood how micro-polyphony is in anyway polyphonic! It was great to hear the Ligeti anecdote about the vague objects floating beneath a sheet of ice, as these elements were what most stood out to me about the piece, so it's gratifying to discover they were somewhat the point of the piece! Thank you for the video. I really hope this channel encourages more musical laymen such as myself to look into contemporary classical music, as I'm sure it will!

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thanks for your kind comments, I'm glad to hear that you found the analysis helpful. There is always more to hear in a Ligeti piece -- I've been listening to this work now for decades and keep returning to it! Best regards.

[@ignacioruizviolin4191]

Please continue making this videos, imare fantastic

[@donna25871]

Interesting note - did you know there is a building at the Liszt Academy named after Ligeti? Although he left Hungary early in his life they do love him there.

[@kkallebb]

Another great analysis of a great piece. Thanks.

[@SamuelRHoward]

Great analysis as always (and nice use of "lugubrious") - good to see some Ligeti! Interesting to see the presentation style develop too, look forwards to seeing how it progresses.

[@gregcoles9175]

This was a great exposition of Ligeti's composition process! Thank you!!

[@aTonalHits]

What a thoughtful and acute analysis of this great work!

[@JackYarbroughMusic]

Love your videos! Would love an analysis on Grisey sometime, in particular “Vortex Temporum” and why it’s often considered his masterpiece.

[@parsa.mostaghim]

My favorite video of yours, watched it for the third time😍🔮

[@benjaminenders8762]

just wanted say: great stuff !! I am deeply interested into modern compositions, somehow, they feel way closer to me then, lets say Beethoven (thou many people would say the opposite) and I'm just thankful that you are out there and making this videos for interested people like me

[@brianquinn1800]

Great job! I would love to see/hear you do a video on Penderecki!

[@thegiftedone]

Amazing….amazing…………amazing analysis! Thank you!

[@noktambulamx7564]

give us more!!!!!!!!! love your stuff!

16:47 - And if you listen a bit more to the music, then you'll get to a massive jumpscare - sadly, not featured in this video.

[@christophertalbot9488]

Thank you for this! I'd be very interested in your analysis of the Scardanelli-Zyklus; also, do you have any videos exploring Luigi Nono's music - either end of his career? Another composer that uses canonic techniques - in his later music - was Aldo Clementi: there are fundamental differences in the application and audition of these from Ligeti's from this period I would say.

[@antoniotorres8436]

Thank you very much for sharing. Very useful from a composer point of view.

[@ollisaari8722]

A new subscriber here! Thank you for the high quality analysis. The last bit about the canon and it's perceivability is a hint about a large and underappreciated subject, namely: What are the boundaries of human perception of music and how much these boundaries are biological and cultural in origin? I find it always invigorating to think how minds, originally evolved as means to survive and reproduce, are capable of so varied and sophisticated collection of music (and other art forms).

[@samuel_andreyev]

Good point. Some musical structures can't be identified as such during ordinary listening, but can nevertheless help to orient our perception, or to generate a surface. In otherwords, there isn't always a simple 1-to-1 relationship between the structure, and our perception. This is true of the standard classical repertoire, by the way. The listener who isn't well-versed in classical music may easily fail to recognize a fugue when they hear it; but the fugue is still operating, nonetheless.

[@ollisaari8722]

Samuel Andreyev Samuel Andreyev I agree, but there still is a point to think about the link between capacity of perception and ability to appreciate the music. Like you said, certain structures cannot be heard as such - and maybe were never meant to be, I'd add. I would still argue that there is a kind of critical treshold of ability to perceive, which determines - for some degree at least - how capable a person is to appreciate a given composition. That has been my personal experience, how the ability to perceive roughly correlates with ability to appreciate. Now, that might be blatantly obvious, but the on the money question (quite literally) for composers is: What are the perception abilities of average human? Composer who plays around this could very well reach a bigger audience than one who doesn't. That doesn't necessarily mean to dumb down the music: If a composition includes many levels of complexity, it supposedly offers something to appreciate for listeners of many skill levels. I'd say there are certain examples on that in contemporary repertoire. That being said, I'd never say that to be conscious of endless list of musical devices is a requirement to enjoy music. For me music communicates mostly through emotions and intuitions, and awareness of technical aspects is only a mean to expand that sphere. That was a bit long wall of text, sorry about that. Nevertheless, I already watched several of your videos and have to say: Good work, sir! Cheers!

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thank you for your kind comments. There's lot to discuss in what you say here, but briefly, I think that in the best case, you would want a piece to be able to communicate on multiple different levels: the complete neophyte should be able to find something to enjoy in it, while still offering enough richness to engage the most demanding listener. However, in all fairness, this is not an easy thing to achieve. So pieces that are difficult for the average listener are not necessarily bad pieces; they are simply difficult. Conversely, pieces that are accessible to everyone are not necessarily good pieces. As far as the threshold level of ability to perceive goes: there are certain physical limitations that are well understood: for instance, people can distinguish between certain ratios of duration, but beyond a certain limit (for instance, a 20 second sound versus a 21-second sound), they are no longer able to make distinctions.

[@ollisaari8722]

Samuel Andreyev Thanks for the reply! Can you recommend a book or an academic publication which discusses the physical limitations you mentioned? Steven Pinker has a brief chapter on that in How the Mind Works, but I'm not aware of any publication dedicated to the subject.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Hi Olli, I learned about perceptual threshholds for pitch and duration while I was a student at the Paris conservatoire. From what I (vaguely) recall, the course materials were derived from articles by either Karlheinz Stockhausen or Werner Meyer-Eppler. I'm sorry I can't be more specific but it was quite a long time ago.

[@marcleroy-calatayud]

Fantastic video, thank you very much for your work.

[@FranBarajasMusic]

So many interesting lessons. Thanks for the analysis!

[@ChrisBandyJazz]

This is excellent! Great work!!

[@saraafonso4646]

Thank you so much for your videos

[@timojolivet]

Great video, thanks! I hope that some day you will cover Stockhausen's Licht opera in a video. It's a rather short piece so it should be suitable for the 23m video format.

[@jaapcramer]

Thanks! Good to follow for me. Insightful.

[@paulgarthwaite9734]

Thank you so much.Your work is Stunning.!!!!!

[@thirdcreed]

Great video, thank you so much. For what it's worth, I liked the pacing of the video.

[@samuel_andreyev]

My pleasure. I'm glad to hear it was helpful.

[@luoyanjin]

Great analysis!

[@bentleycharles779]

Great analysis.

[@feraudyh]

If you want to listen to it on Idagio look for Chamber Concerto.

[@franciscusrebro1416]

I'm wondering, did Ligeti supply explanations of what's going on structurally here in some program notes to this piece, or did you figure all this stuff out through your own analysis? Either way, I really appreciate all the work you put into this in labeling those labyrinthine lines of notes. Awesome video on one of my favorite composers. Also, first!

[@samuel_andreyev]

I haven't seen any detailed analyses by Ligeti of this piece, although he commented in general terms about what he was trying to achieve with it. The fact that he used canons as a way of structuring his micropolyphonies has been commented upon by many analysts.

[@DeflatingAtheism]

Did Ligeti acknowledge a debt to Varèse? The idea of the pitch class content of a work being compassed by an expanding semitone cluster is similar to techniques Varèse uses in Density 21.5 and Octandre.

[@ashbell1046]

Ligeti is hands down the greatest of the post war composers. No contest. Ultimately the top serialists, while brilliant composers, were effectively astute technicians of a process, one that placed process above the prima fascia condition that music is something to be listened to. The problem with the serialists was their insistence that the process be adhered to as a matter of principle. Ligety was capable of using it when it served his purposes, and dismissing it entirely when it ran against it. Serialism was merely one of many pallets he made available to himself if it suited him. He was a composer of tropes, and of pieces whose rule sets he created explicitly and exclusively to serve the purposes of a particular piece. Like the Mikrokosmos of Bartok, and Bartok’s six string quartets, Ligeti’s late. Piano études are each and in of them selves delicious little universes of exhausting sets and subsets of simple rules.

[@raulo2351]

I personally appreciate Ligeti's effort to give direction to the sequence of sounds. But I still do not understand the intellectual effort of choosing the sequence of notes if there is no way that this can be perceived (except for intellectual delight in a subsequent analysis). Can someone explain this to me?

[@Scriabin_fan]

I would also like an explanation to this.

[@joeeaton2422]

Genius assessment. Genius.

[@jeremybrunk901]

Track the canon to the end. The pitch replacement process gets WILD after the bass trombone note. And I’d argue it’s completely permeable once you understand what’s going on. It’s thrilling and you CAN hear it!

[@RobWickline]

Hey Samuel, I love your analysis vids. Are you familiar with Lutoslawski's Cello Concerto? I'd to hear any thoughts you have on it!

[@thegiftedone]

The epic haunting simple masterpiece of Musica Ricercata (Mesto,rigido, e cerimoniale) was carefullly chosen by the great Stanley Kubrick once again in another one of his incredible films “ Eyes Wide Shut”……….perfectly positioned……….art at its finest……my goodness…..

[@musa.mp3]

thank you that was helpful

[@diallobanksmusic]

What is the piece at 20:47?

[@niklassaabye3986]

Finally Ligeti! Thank you, and Nice shirt. Very Ligeti-ish:•)

[@rooneyjosuehernandezvillan4213]

Samuel Andreyev, your work is very good. It has introduced me more to the world of contemporary music. Tell me, this information about the analisis, ¿Did you write it? ¿Is there an academic paper that we can obtain with all this info? Thanks! Greetings

[@bipolar-polar-bear-east9717]

It's nice to hear of ligeti N Space odyssey 2001

[@mattthecomposer]

Would you be able to do an analysis on a piece by Aldo Clementi? Maybe one of his Bach-inspired pieces or prehaps one of his string 4etes? I really love the videos and appreciate the time you take to make them, they're always really interesting and of great help!

[@jdanielcramer]

Love this❤

[@jorgeley]

Amazingly good for composer thanks!

[@Krabadaque]

Thank you, Samuel! Fascinating! György, though, is pronounced quite differently in Hungarian...

[@samuel_andreyev]

I am sure I massacred the pronunciation! My apologies (and thanks for the kind words)

[@wingflanagan]

I would LOVE to hear your take on Penderecki's "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima". Or "De Natura Sonoris", numbers 1, 2, or 3.

[@chancemeeting2849]

Agreed! Or Cello Concerto No. 1.

[@oceancheung6139]

Very inspiring👍🏻👍🏻

[@nicolasrioscardona]

Samuel unfortunately at this moment I can not help you for Patroen, but the videos that you upload continuously are an immense source of knowledge and I hope in the future to support you as it should be. Thank you very much. There is some place where I can get scores of contemporary music?

[@samuel_andreyev]

Hello Nico, Thank you for your kind message. There are resources online where you can find contemporary music scores, or at least samples. Many publishers, like Peters Edition, provide free samples of several pages of scores that you can view on their website. Some composers, even major ones like Georges Aperghis, give their scores away for free in the form of downloadable pdfs from their websites. And some composers upload their scores to IMSLP.org, a vast trove of free pdfs of music. I hope this is helpful. Best regards.

[@hihihi8447]

Hi Samuel. Ever considered doing a live Q&A on KZbin?

[@samuel_andreyev]

Yes, I'd love to do this but I'm not sure if my viewership is high enough yet. I'd be embarrassed if only two people and a penguin showed up ;)

[@hihihi8447]

Also. I would like to note how amazing your video presentation has become lately. It's nice to see KZbin channels progress like this.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thank you. I'm stumbling along, learning as I go.

[@sebastianzaczek]

Samuel Andreyev i'd be pleased to live-chat with a penguin...😂

[@Triggs-Music]

wow so significant

[@paxwallacejazz]

Legiti is emotionally engaging and I feel a sense of narrative. However the piano piece you featured is a no go for me unlike that franetic staircase piece which rocks. I guess I really like his macro(micro?)polyphony ie 2001 period stuff. Had a chamber concerto LP long lost that I loved.

[@francescotolomio6312]

Hey Samuel, great video! I just landed on your channel and I'll probably do a lot! Do you have any suggestion/idea on how he had concretely build the initial canon? The tuplets are hard to decode in that regard

[@gregorypatriciaandjiyajais8819]

Love Ligetti s music the best of the Modernist

[@mischacarlberg6631]

please analyze derive 2 by Boulez. One of the most dense contemporary works I've heard

[@samuel_andreyev]

I would be happy to, but that is one of the longest and most complex works by Boulez (ca. 45 minutes), and I don't think I could do it justice in a KZbin video.

[@mischacarlberg6631]

​@@samuel_andreyev Fair point. I just thought it would be really interesting to see. Thanks for the reply!

[@trob-o-matic8896]

Excellent. Excellent ! hank you !

[@OdinComposer]

I like this video. Will you do something on Wuorinen? I’ve been finding his book fascinating me lately.

4:50 - There's no PP left for this song...

[@Arnoldiepin]

Whoooo!!

[@Ung97]

He can wear casual clothes!

[@McMuft]

Thanks!

[@aranyawaasii]

i'm finding this a bit fast paced. i realise you had 'takeaways' from your conversation with Adam Neely, but i prefer your old style of presentation. It suits your personal style & your content, better ... also, if you are going to read from script, i'd suggest 1) slow down 2) utilise some other footage rather than you reading ... A.N. may have a punchy & 'jump cut' style, but he speaks more slowly, talks (rather than reads ..) to the camera, & his content could be considered 'lightweight' in many respects compared to yours, which requires (& in fact, deserves...) a more thoughtful & academic tone.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Thanks for the comment. I'm experimenting with some new ways of producing the videos, and it may take me a while to find the optimal mode of presentation.

[@aranyawaasii]

no problem. content is excellent as always, & trusted you'd be happy to get the feedback ...

[@IHATENOTIFICATIONS]

On the contrary, I really enjoyed this new style! It seems more polished than sitting at a desk in your room. I don't see the speed as a problem as we can always skip back the video if we miss something. I sometimes watch an Adam Neely video simply because they're fun to watch, it doesn't matter what he's talking about- I'd love it if your channel was similar in that respect. Keep it up man, love the videos

[@FernieCanto]

My heart sinks whenever I see people trying to homogenize the style of KZbin presentation and to make everything look slick and flawless and perfect, replacing all element of human spontaneity with brash humour and D A N K memes and one liners. Too many content producers constantly drag the attention to themselves, trying to force a sense of identity that comes across as really phony. On the other hand, Samuel here has the advantage that he puts the focus squarely on the music he's analysing, without showing off how knowledgeable, hip and funny he is. When Samuel makes a video about a piece of music, it's *about the piece of music*, and that already puts him leaps and bounds ahead of almost every other channel in this new wave of music youtubers. I applaud him for keeping his videos fascinating while seeking for a style of presentation that suits him. Every analysis he does makes me want to drop everything I'm doing and listen to the piece in question immediately (which isn't always possible, unfortunately), and this video was no different.

[@BCKBCK]

I liked the new style, it flows a bit better, to me. It is a bit fast paced, but I'm used to almost always increase the speed of the videos I see, so to me it was not a problem at all.

[@muslit]

Kubrick: "Eyes Wide Shut"..Musica Ricercata No. 2

[@paxnorth7304]

Where have you been all my life ?!

[@boran4561]

Do anyone know the key of T.1-5

[@Tfrne]

This is great! You should do something similar for something by Lutoslawski.

[@richardhines8622]

Discerption and meaning can fan wide apart.

[@richtrophicherbs]

I wish people would pronounce the great man's name correctly. Djerdj (one syllable) is about as close as you can get for English speakers.

[@pocoapoco2]

I like to tell people not to get trapoped by the idea that music is only supposed to be soothing and pleasant. That would be like having the only movies that were allowed to be made be musicals and nothing else.

[@chambermuses7802]

Refining my previous comment, with four examples of native speakers - forvo.com/word/gyorgy_ligeti/ & forvo.com/word/ligeti/ & forvo.com/word/gy%C3%B6rgy_s%C3%A1ndor_ligeti/ & forvo.com/word/ligeti_gy%C3%B6rgy/ - despite variances of stress, the tendency favours both antepenultimate and penultimate syllables, not rhyming with "diggity" (as in "hot diggity"), which is how most Americans have been pronouncing the name - viz., not "LIGedy", but LI-GET-ti.

[@silovitipanj4958]

Another great video but it feels a bit too fast paced

[@samuel_andreyev]

I'll remember not to have a coffee just before filming next time.

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

I find it helpful to press pause every now and then. It would be difficult to digest otherwise.

[@richtrophicherbs]

The subtitles are hilarious.

[@JohnathandosSantos]

gREAT vID!!!

[@thethikboy]

Really weird scary dude - not surprising that he was born in Transylvania - but his music is phenomenal - popularized thankfully by Spielberg's 2001 and Eyes Wide Shut BTW. Don't know why you don't talk about microtonality.

[@dabbinrascal7975]

I found Waldo

[@bipolar-polar-bear-east9717]

All Tho I listen to classical music I Don't really Learn It seriously

[@peterwhyte317]

Would it be fair to say that this music is clever but it does not sound nice? I am quite happy with discordant music, having acquired a love of such as stravinsky, penderecki, rochberg, gorecki etc which seem to have a meaning, or a natural logic. Perhaps the mind becomes hard wired to accept such music, rather like an addict's brain is wired to crave his substance or activity. If this is so, there is little hope that people such as myself will ever derive pleasure from much contemporary music. I follow your channel, for which I thank you, in the hope that the penny may drop. Peter Whyte

[@hatephone]

please do a xenakis vid :)

[@hatephone]

this is by far one of my favorite channels on youtube!!! thank you for all of your work!!

[@samuel_andreyev]

Planning to!

[@samuel_andreyev]

My pleasure. New video coming in a few hours.

[@hatephone]

@@samuel_andreyev :)))))

[@henryvaughan757]

lugubrious

[@andrewwizard1577]

Directed randomness

[@ChavenneBonifacio]

Lobster army

[@TootAzraq]

n.b. it's pronounced 'George'