"F*ck Ken Roczen's Suspension" 😳 - How HRC Team Manager deals with each riders needs 🤯

You ever wonder how Supercross managers deal with the different needs of their riders suspension? How can one rider love something that another rider hates?! Lars Lindstrom talks about managing the differences between Ken Roczen and Christian Craigs suspension set up.
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Lars Lindstrom just had the perfect season as a team manager in Supercross and Motocross for HRC - with a 22-0 perfect season from Jett Lawrence to boot. Lars started at the team in 2004 building bikes for Ricky Carmichael and has worked his way up to the top spot and if 2023 is anything to go buy he is going to be around for years to come.
Before we get into this episode though, I wanted to share with you some awesome news regarding our first ever race, the Gypsy Tales 500.
Vurbmoto and Gypsy Tales are putting on an 8hr Grand Prix style event in Mesquite, NV. Using one of Gypsy’s favorite events, Australia’s Transmoto series, as inspiration, this will be an 8hr team or solo (for the Savages) race with your boys (or girls). The course will consist of a tamed down moto track and off-road loop, averaging 20 min lap times. The goal? Have fun, kick some beers and race your buddies. It’s worth noting this is a 125cc and Up race, no mini bikes allowed.
As far as the course goes, it will be part moto, part off-road - Sunday’s loop will be a unique course with an average lap time of 20 minutes. The loop will include terrain for the average rider along with a tamed down motocross track with no mandatory jumps. Again, this is a vibe race and will be built for all rider disciplines.
For more information head to vurbmoto.com/gypsy500/
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[@noControl556]

Instead of trying to sell production bikes that fit a wide range of riders out of the box, they need to just make them customizable from the factory. They keep adding new electronic crap but you still can't even order a bike that has the right springs and valving for your weight. That is the most common thing that would make the bike much better for the average rider who doesn't have another $1,500 to send off the suspension on a $10k brand new bike.

[@johnstanfield7406]

For the most part you can throw in gold valves and springs/shock for under a grand

[@zealobiron]

You wouldn't want to pay the premium that would come with that. Since it includes manufacturers not shipping units until sold and components have been selected. Now if moto did something similar to snowmobile sales, this becomes possible! There's a snow check season coming soon, where people can preorder next year's sled. Since production hasn't started yet, they do get to choose certain things for certain models. It would be awesome to preorder a bike and be able to have spring, bar, seat, footpeg position, brakes etc. But it would still come with a premium.

[@perterror2918]

10k?? They sell them 17k in canada 😂

[@Ccrider363]

You can order a stark with the correct springs and valving

[@noControl556]

@@Ccrider363I think you can order Betas with various aftermarket parts, but not sure if you can get different springs pre installed.

[@peytonhawkins.4]

Kenny is on a different level than Lars , or Christian. Bike setup obviously won’t be the same , he’s one of the most gifted and talented riders ever on a dirt bike.

[@trevorrochon6983]

Ya he is but it doesn’t mean he’s running the most efficient set up. Stewart was and always will be the radest guy to ever race and his set up that he insisted on caused him a lot of problems.

[@MXJEFF94]

Kenny may be on a 'different level' but it doesnt mean his suspension is stiffer. Ken is notorious for setting up his bike softer than most.

[@ybj___]

@@MXJEFF94and lugging his bike more than everybody else too he likes his chasis and everything very loose

[@noControl556]

LIke my dad used to say, do it my way and something goes wrong it's my fault, do it your way and something goes wrong it's your fault. Teams need to fully take on the support role and give the rider the best options possible but ultimately have the rider make his own decisions and hold him accountable for the results.

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

Facts. I worked with my dad doing construction for years when I was younger, any time there was a questionable task we were assigned to do I was always like, "Alright, if you want to do it that way that's fine, just know that I don't agree so if it works like shit it's your fault, not mine." 😂 But I'd say that's totally correct for a team/rider dynamic. The issue I've heard through the grapevine, (especially with Japanese OEMs) is that there's a clear hierarchy, and the riders are near the bottom. They're just mercenaries, effectively. That's why IMO Kenny thrives ono the Suzuki team with my buddy Soules, because it's more of a grass-roots, we can do whatever we want type vibe. Whereas Honda/Kawi/Yamaha, those teams are, "This is the way it is, if you don't like it get lost." So that's exactly what Kenny did. Some people thrive in that environment (like Webb), others don't.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Not very many Pro riders really know how to set up suspension now a days. But I like your philosophy, as it would force them to learn. But I also think many pro riders, (like Ken and Chase), are trying too hard to make a suspension suit they way they "feel" that day, instead of learning how to ride the best they can do. At this point, it really is the rider IMO, as some racers have beaten the world with out suspension changes for any series (JMB, never changed his suspension weather 250SX, 250 nationals, or 500cc nationals. Not one change in 1991, when he beat the world.).

[@Sprocket74]

Not even the contrast on the Suzuki. But even the Honda he raced right after leaving HRC looked incredibly better. Roczen looked amazing in my opinion at Paris in 22.

[@xojimmie743]

i remember. i was almost bummed when he chose suzuki because he looked so good

[@Sprocket74]

@@xojimmie743 I agree!

[@Joe-pb3lx]

hes saying kens honda was funky but everyone just rode kens suzuki and loved it......makes no sense

[@gavindietz5520]

Lars is one of the biggest liars in the MX world. When Kenny left HRC and went to firepower, he said that factory connection was able to fix all the problems with the Showa suspension that HRC couldn't fix in two years. You gotta remember that Lars in an employee to the biggest corporate brand in motocross. He has an obligation to make the brand look good even if he has to lie.

[@tprice323]

@@gavindietz5520whatever he is doing sure worked last year. Won everything

[@mikesshocks]

This is such a good video - we talk about this so much in offroad racing - solid episode

[@Kawiboy]

Love these convos ✌️👊😉

[@tm643racing]

My guy getting the big interviews!! Top moto media hands fookin down!!!

[@farmerkevin]

That RC Honda setup was super weird, it looked like he was running the handlebars backwards and upside down. I've never seen anyone run a dirtbike as fast Ricky on that Woody Woodpecker Honda (except Villipoto at Buds Creek MXDN when Mitch cooked up a super 250 for him, wow) We're lucky to have him commentating on the races for us, he knows what it means to be be fast. Keep these sweet podcasts coming Gypsy.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Like the set up of the 80's and 90's before freestyle got big? Also before amateurs totally sucked with corner speed.

[@thecommonsenseconservative5576]

Rather look weird winning than good losing

[@farmerkevin]

@@thecommonsenseconservative5576 I’m with ya brother. I was pumped he was winning, but if RC wasn’t winning, the goofy setup would have been to blame.

[@thecommonsenseconservative5576]

@@farmerkevin fact! I know when I was watching the video though it was kind of wondering seems like they care more about how the bike looked than if the rider was comfortable

[@RidingwithEthan]

Yooo love the videos

[@LGAH29]

Great insight re the RC rebound setup

[@patbateman6729]

I'm curious about what Bubba's set up was like say compared to Reed or Carmichael's?

[@stevestiffler9120]

If I a team manager, we’re taking the frame to the bones and we’re testing everything. As a rider I was never as jazzed about getting a new bike as I was about testing all kinds of different shit on it. Motor/chassis, mounts, ti bolts, torque specs, clamps, offsets. I loved seeing what different things did and how they felt

[@fox13z400]

This surprises me because not long ago all the media outlets tested his rmz450 setup and they all loved it, including te suspension. So I wonder what went wrong for him setup wise while on the honda but suddenly got better on the suzuki? I know he's tried all kinds of different suspension companies and even different brands while on the suzuki, so maybe he just needed more freedom.

[@evans4983]

Lars can’t say it was their fault. He works for one of the biggest companies out there. Can’t say year our suspension sucked. Ken raced thst Honda after he left hrc and said fc fixed all the problems he had

[@Fifty-one-Fifty]

Really interesting to hear people talking about suspension and they know what they're talking about. I ride mountain bikes these days, never knew much about set up but at least i admit it. But some lads on the mountain talk about a click this way changed the whole way the bike handles and its just to sound good

[@mattburnett4185]

One click makes it handle differently enough to easily notice, Two clicks its a totally different bike

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@mattburnett4185 Actually, the clickers on the shock handle some of the low speed (shock piston speed) and some of the high speed curve, (if the shock has a high speed adjuster). It is actually a small part of the forces in the entire curve, so the clickers can't override bad valving or worn out components/oil.

[@mattburnett4185]

No, if your shock's broken its broken. First set your spring rate (sag) Compression damp for less (or more) dive under braking/acceleration. Rebound damp to stop it bouncing back too fast/slow and getting unstable in corners Too much compression, too harsh Not enough, too soft. Not enough rebound damping it will be like a pogo stick (front end unstable, rear end kicking back on big bumps) Compression damping, I like minimal braking dive, predictable solid tracking under acceleration. Rebound, i like the front end to be stable and settle in the corner after braking, not bounce up before i apply throttle. Good Rear end rebound will track better over harsh bumps, not being bouncy or kicking back harshly @@EarthSurferUSA

[@mattburnett4185]

I don't know about the high speed adjuster my bikes are a bit older

[@xipingpooh5783]

Well whatever Lars thinks about setups is obviously not having any effect on Kenny and his Suzuki RMZ because the switch to Suzuki and the set up he wants is paying dividends. Not to mention it has rejuvenatedKens career!!

[@joelmatthews5697]

Yet he’s still placing behind Hondas 🤔

[@jaedanmorton5747]

Didn't last weekend 🤷‍♂️​@@joelmatthews5697

[@ybj___]

@@joelmatthews5697this is a bad take considering he was the one that almost ended jetts undefeated streak that kickstart got the best of him and he was putting jett the his paces at smx roczen is doing great i see a good bit of winners this season

[@joelmatthews5697]

@@ybj___ it’s not a bad take. Jett was playing with him outdoors and lap times say Jett was in control in SMX and genuinely thought he was doing something good letting him pass. By midway through this SX season we’ll know for sure if Ken was really pressuring Jett.

[@ybj___]

@@joelmatthews5697 roczen was faster than him at highpoint he wrecked in a shitty spot and couldnt get the bike back running a loss is a loss end lf the day but ken on that suzuki is a lot faster than people are thinking hes finding that 2016 speed again

[@estern001]

I don't know why I love this so much. Not even a dirt bike guy.

[@user-sw7pz9uh5s]

Hmm or are you...?

[@EarthSurferUSA]

If I operated a MX/SX team, I would have a classroom study for my racers of how the suspension works from a reputable suspension tuner book, like Paul Thede's (race Tech) "Suspension Bible" , and actually study it like a college class. maybe taught by Mr. Thede himself. That way, the racer can make intelligent decisions, and have a much easier time finding setting that he can agree with. Maybe 10 times easier. No mater what problems we have in life, a proper education is the key to solving them. So rare today, which is why we can't figure much out anymore. Look at MXA. Like they are brand new to the sport in many writes.

[@nigmode4091]

It's more a personal preference and what the rider feels

[@ET50rippha]

Nice work

[@gilgarza2903]

I can attest to XR's seat cushions, they're VERY cushy. And the rear shock is very dead, LOTS of compression with no rebound. Probably because I never serviced it. 😂

[@ghpjerry]

I ride a 22 RM-Z450 & after softening the suspension a couple of clicks per ride, I found the perfect set-up for me. Perfect absorption, perfect, rebound & the thing is an amazing bike, specially the cost difference. Ridden YZ's for 45yrs, 1st Suzuki & I love it! I'm a trail & enduro rider, this bike has enough power for anyone.

[@alisterfiend1987]

why go to a bike with a kick start ?

[@denniswilder3014]

​@@alisterfiend1987why not? 99 percent of the time it starts right back up after a kick or 2.

[@alisterfiend1987]

@@denniswilder3014 Because when you get older like you mentioned kicking a bike for decades wears your right knee out. I question your 45 years off of that.

[@denniswilder3014]

@@alisterfiend1987 im 51 years old been riding in racing since i was 5 years old. Kicking my rmzs is still a easy task

[@alisterfiend1987]

@@denniswilder3014 must be nice because I'm 53 and my right knee and ankle is worn out from kicking bikes my whole life but I have heard they start easy so ya I guess so.

[@dougroberts7073]

Great Vid

[@Sithlord224]

That thinking from Yamaha is what drove their factory team into the ground because they didn't get the results they wanted, they didn't listen to the riders, pissed off everyone tht rode for them😂 STAR took over and said no fuck that😂

[@denniswilder3014]

I hope Suzuki steps up with just a little revamp of the frame a little more power keep it kick start and make it light

[@adamwelsh5744]

I’m hoping Kenny’s success and popularity will motivate their r & d

[@EarthSurferUSA]

According to Honda manager Dave Arnold, JMB (Jean Michael Bayle), who was the best SX and National MX rider in the world in 1991, (won all 3 classes, 250sx, 250 nationals, and 500cc national championships), used the exact same suspension and setting for all three different series and bikes. Did not change a thing. Just goes to show, you never blame the pool stick, when you make the shot anyway. I say, many racers today, waste a lot of energy finding the setting that makes them 'feel good" that day, and major championships have been won on stock suspension, (with after market help), even in the terrible 80's of stock suspension. :) Notice, the guys who blame the bike, will always chase around inconsistently, as they keep making changes that they feel comfortable with for a day. What did Bayle do? He figured out how to ride the bike with one setting. As Lance Armstrong wrote, "It's not the bike".

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

It's the same reason even the best steak restaurants in the world ask you how you want it cooked. They're called preferences. "Different strokes for different folks," as it were.

[@tankeater]

I'm 6"2' 180 and I have a stock rear shock just with a 210-230 compressive spring. Stiff in the rear, soft in the front (like Ken) gives you best of both worlds in my eyes!!!... I'm 50% German... Think it's a lengthy riding style 🤷‍♂️🤘

[@EarthSurferUSA]

I would not use that set up in sand or mud. You are losing front wheel trail with that set up, (as the front end compresses more than the rear.), which may be pretty good for harder ground cornering, but especially at slower speeds in sand or mud, the dirt actually builds up in front of the tire as it rolls, and that is the tire contact patch taking up all the trail, or even going negative trail. That is why the front end is squirrely in sand and mud, until you get enough speed to basically float the tire on top of it, bringing the contact path back again, and riding much more straight. All I am saying is, your set up should be changed for the sand, even if you are hanging off the back of the bike. If you want to know a lot more, I have been reading Paul Thede's, (from Race Tech) "Suspension Bible". Definitely worth the study. :)

[@tankeater]

@@EarthSurferUSA I have a KTM 500 EXC with CA plate on her. I mainly ride in Southern California and take my f250 with my bike to Glamis a few times a year. Yes, you are correct and I put the stock spring back onto my bike with the stock clicks. I'll then stiffen up the front just with compression and keep my rebound the same. I also have a Vortex10 ECU to have a good MAP for the sand. The MAIN problem people have with setting up stiff in the rear and that's getting the negative G out! That can easily be fixed by slowing your rebound down. After you get that solved, most people have ZERO clue how the high compression settings work. You want your low compression soft so you don't get chatter in breaking bumps and your high compression is the main key to get everything perfect. I had a friend that worked for KINGS for over a decade. He used to tune Robby Gordon's TT. I learned from an experts mouth AND watched him tune multiple trucks while he explained everything to me. I know the coil bypass is a different setup, but it's the same concept. But thanks for the advice surfer 👍

[@deanfloyd8931]

Ricky would never have risen to Stewart's speed without a total makeover of his bike setup.

[@OGLD]

Can you imagine how fast Stu would be if he were racing today with today’s stuff?

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Oh how you team managers would love to have a Damon Bradshaw today: "Give me that air cooled YZ/WR490 trail bike. I want to beat them all with it!!!!" (against Stanton and Bayle with DeCoster and the factory Honda's). I hear Bayle was pretty easy to work with too: "Just leave it the way it is. I will use it for 250 SX, and 250/500 nationals.". Oh by the way guys. MX tracks have never been smoother. Maybe the bikes have 2" too much travel today? Less travel is easier to tune. I don't remember RC complaining about suspension. This sport is dysfunctional compared to the 2-stroke days.

[@chuckbrierejr7911]

They used to have one off factory bike. For top teams. Europe doe mxgp

[@RCountryMusic]

Hahahaha funniest clickbait ever 😂

[@DripGangTV]

🔥🔥🔥

[@alistairjeenes2729]

I find it hard to believe HRC honda factory showa front and back is impossible to find a great setting no matter how different rider set up is, factory showa has to be the best in the business, when roczen first rode honda I thought how great his bike looked the way it handled ? Plus we talking about a multi time world champion and ama champion so fuck knows what was going on

[@thomastjg53]

The factory bike could come with a little better valveing then they do. Look at ktm this year, a lot of people are saying that they finely set the suspension up better than they ever have, a that it’s better for everyone, for ones.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Suspension is a very personal thing. There really is no reason why, even to the pro level, you can't make your stock suspension work well no matter what bike you bought.

[@Bonky-wonky]

Maybe let the clock decide what’s best. Have the rider do timed laps on both his prefered setup and what the mechanic thinks is fastest.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

What they would find is that the suspension that offers the most control, would not have the best lap times. If they go with a little less rebound dampening, the bike would ride a little more loose, but actually get more traction which should mean lower lap times. Now, if we don't ride at the edge of traction, (not many people do), how do we know if a setting is giving us more traction or not? Must be lap times. Watch the bikes that throw the least amount or roost, (when on the gas of course). They are the set ups getting the most traction.

[@mx118racer]

So the rc developed triumph is going be Ricky weird too ??

[@tommysmithii4723]

How is Lars going to motivate Jo to be his best? I thought training with Jett and Hunter would bring a more aggressive Jo, but that was not the case at least for A1.

[@marko0os_]

He’s always struggled in the first few rounds and 4th is pretty fucking solid for him so It seems to be working out

[@gooseactionsports1289]

@@marko0os_a top five in this stacked of a 250 class is great for a1. Time to build 💪

[@user-wu5nq7lb2q]

He doesn’t train with Jett & Hunter.

[@gekcee3266]

Kenny and Christian are on very different levels. Kenny is faster. Pushes the bike harder. Hence the stiffer suspension

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Johnny Hopper thinks you need soft suspension for the sand,---and he was a pro racer. Was. :)

[@tykemp40]

Cant stand "clickbait" titles like this, especially when it's associated with a guy that always gives respect where its due. You can't trust ppl to watch the vid, they'll just see the title and think its a direct quote. Lame!

[@byronjames-zr2kp]

Big difference between Roczen vs Lars and Craig lol

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Just listen to Kenny answer one question at a post race press conference, (On, and on, and on, from one thought to the next, which ever way his cognitive wind is blowing from second to second.). Now imagine that mind trying to tell you how the suspension is working. Kenny seems like the kind of guy who would complain about a setting, but give him the same setting back to try, (with out telling him it is the same), he would say it was better,-------------------probably because he is getting used to it.

[@jasonb4892]

Different forks for different folks

[@stevestiffler9120]

When the F did Honda ever run KYB??? I must have amnesia

[@plumbit111]

IDK but Ricky probably was trying to put the power to the ground more then the rest he is a short dude.

[@anthonyboulus9042]

If they are to use a stock chassis Why did old mate say chase didn't want to use a supercross frame ??? I gathering they either removed material to make it flex more or ads material to make it stiffer.. interesting

[@adamwelsh5744]

They probably add gussets to make it stiffer for sx, leave them out to flex for outdoors

[@EarthSurferUSA]

I don't think Kenny knows what he likes. He just likes what feels good to him that day. But if he studied suspension to understand it, so he knows what direction he "can go", he would figure it out. But right now, Kenny and many other Pro's I am sure, really don't know what works best for them. Heck, it took Kenny 2 days to get pissed at Jett for waving him buy for the lead of a race. It is not rare today. Kenny "feels" more than he "thinks".

[@jaredcross8752]

What is that hat he's wearing?

[@mitchellfleming9117]

Looks like a Gopher Dunes hat. Gopher dunes is a national track up here in Canada which is home to Canadas HRC team

[@JbFixCorleone]

Dont believe one word of Lars.. roczens father just told the complete opposite story..

[@Canyon_Shawn]

He’s full of shit. Ken left Honda because they wouldn’t let him set the bike up the way he likes it.

[@cooperwelty4749]

That’s what I was thinking. I think kawi kinda did the same to Eli tomac in 2021

[@Canyon_Shawn]

@@cooperwelty4749 Yep!

[@gildo101rossi]

It’s been proven time and time again factory teams have an issue with listening to show riders because they aren’t showing it on track or because another guy on the same bike is doing better. It’s always been a problem. Like Marc De Reuver when he went to factory Yamaha in MXGP, he hurt his back having a herniated disc, said all season he couldn’t ride the factory engine because it was too powerful & with his back injury he could barely hold on, he asked for a stock and they said no. They booted him out the team after a year when he had a 2 year contract, so for the last race they gave him a stock engine. He won. Not only did he win, he won at Lierop, the toughest deepest track of the year & he beat everyone with a stock engine. Which saved him & got him a contract from Honda the next year. Goes to show teams need to actually listen to the riders & do everything they ask. But they don’t always still, unless you’re winning everything like Jett or RC

[@Womb2DaTomb]

Too much ego with some teams, they think they know better than the guy clicking off wins

[@willthompson9073]

I sorta feel like thats from testing too much shit and you have too many options paralysis by analysis

[@brianmerrill1227]

Lars wearing a greatful dead hat. ?

[@senditsillly1423]

asdf

[@garymallard4699]

Everyone rides differently....how they change a suspension to their liking.... that isn't strange or new....thinking what you like doesn't matter..neither one of these guys talking can ride at Ken's or Christian's level.... they would never come close to the level needed to get that bike working for them....a stock bike would be better than they need.... the styles of K & C are 2 different styles.... as long as each rider is Happy? that is what the team needs to provide... why does this host think he knows anything ( based on his opinion...which shows ignorance in bike tuning )

[@Barnes828]

Lars actually rips! And obviously it’s rider preference and they said exactly that.

[@zealobiron]

A stocks bikes suspension could be right for some people, but probably not. It's not even designed to great for anyone, but good for everyone, which also means bad for everyone.

[@swank171]

I think you were missing the point here. Lars said just that, you give the rider what they want so they’re happy. I think it was more of them just talking about how drastically different all these riders are. You can take two riders, and one bike is rideable for the average person and the other one is absolutely impossible to ride. Just like James Stewart’s bike back in the day. I don’t know if you’ve read any articles or heard people talk about what riding his bike was like, it wasn’t something anyone could ride. Just because this guy isn’t on TV every day doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and that he can’t ride. Lars is awesome and he’s been in the industry for a really long time. He’s managing a team that won the championship in Supercross last year and the 250 and 450 and also the team who won the championship in motocross in 250 and 450. There’s a reason for it. There’s a reason jet and Hunter are on that team and things are going smooth. So I think your comment is a little bit misplaced, and in fact, you’re attacking somebody from a chair and a keyboard when you may be the one who is lacking the knowledge and understanding. Not trying to be rude, I just think if you’re gonna call somebody out like that and be so harsh maybe you should evaluate your input. I truly don’t think either of them were knocking or talking bad about anyone set up as much as they were having fun with the fact that there’s no right way to do it, just the riders way to do it.

[@garymallard4699]

@@zealobiron a stock suspension can be modified easily and is when you compete....it is a basic sound starting point and they have improved far beyond what we had when i started racing ( 1975 ) and ended racing 15 years later.... i did my suspension myself...and most don't need Hi End suspension...but they think they do.... less than 10% ride good enough for Factory Suspension... and dialing in Stock suspension is cheap and can get them all they need.... spending money doesn't make you more talented....well your parents money in most cases....i worked and funded my racing 100%

[@zealobiron]

@@garymallard4699 so it's not stock anymore. And agreed most people don't need factory. What's best for one rider probably isn't best for another. Changing springs is what we're talking about here. And you just can't have a bike working properly for a 150lb rider and a 200lb. Just not mechanically possible.

[@dwaynedaarol7282]

First

[@enacku]

HRC manager is more boring than watching paint dry.

[@paulhetherington3854]

Why are - them forks: "Still in - the stock - DJZ'? and rake - diameter?" Stock right? 1. That guy = Ukrainian accent! 2. with Ukrainian ing = cannibal!