H.R. McMaster on Why the Trump Administration Was “At War with Ourselves” | Uncommon Knowledge

General (ret.) H.R. McMaster, the Fouad and Michelle Ajami Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, returns to Uncommon Knowledge to discuss his latest book, At War with Ourselves, in which he candidly recounts his experiences as former national security advisor to President Donald Trump from 2017 to 2018. In this wide-ranging interview, McMaster delves into the complexities and challenges he faced while serving in the administration and describes his role in providing the president with multiple options and safeguarding his independence of judgment, partially by drawing on the Stoic philosophy of Epictetus to “play well the role assigned to you.” He reflects on the internal tensions and conflicts within the White House, often exacerbated by differing agendas among staff and cabinet members. McMaster also discusses the difficulties in maintaining a productive relationship with President Trump, especially when offering candid advice that sometimes led to alienation. The conversation is a revealing look into McMaster's often tumultuous experiences in the Trump White House but also emphasizes the importance of a well-structured decision-making process in the realm of national security.
Recorded on July 10, 2024.
At War with Ourselves:
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For more on this series visit: www.hoover.org...
The opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Hoover Institution or Stanford University.
© 2024 by the Board of Trustees of Leland Stanford Junior University.
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[@peetky8645]

protest peacefully and patriotically

[@boogaboogaboogaable]

The First Order problem that Trump could see but that many still cannot see is that for the entire existence of The National Security Council's influence the United States has not unequivocally won a single military conflict. If any private sector management organ had such a consistent pattern of failure it would be disbanded.

[@tommcfadden5232]

Your first responsibility was to preserve and protect the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. All civil servants swear an oath, not to Presidents, but to our constitution.

[@jakenovak2556]

Excellent sit down. HR I really have grown to respect your patriotic perspective. I just wish more men and women in the govt shared your values. Thank you for your service sir

[@michellehill5285]

I’m sick and tired of people accusing Trump of telling people to storm the capital

[@RamonesFan201]

HE DID!! it's proven

[@JohanThiart]

Then you must be sick and tired of Trump…… Right?

[@Asfgxff]

Libel and slander. Any honest-thinking person would know better by now.

[@gozepplin]

He did worse. He tried to strong arm his own VP to chose fake electors and when that didn’t work, turned to the crowd to deny that he lost in the first place

[@MFJoneser]

Trump was not the emergency. He represented the emergency. We must see this.

[@krisvdbz3]

general, I read a clip on line anouncing your book, the review pissed me off! big time. turns out the internet was wrong.(again) after listening to you on Uncommon knowledge. general , we love you, appreciate you , respect you and thank you for your service

[@rogerparkhurst5796]

Trump did not have the experience of staff leadership that Reagan had due his experience as governor and living through multiple wars and a tumultuous society of the 60’s and 70’s.

[@tommcfadden5232]

Trump didn’t have any political experience. Zip. None. Nada. That was part of the problem.

[@lindat6910]

ah and let us not put things into perspective. It might confuse many!

[@kennethmeeker6369]

Trump had compartmentalized sects with there own agendas surrounding him . With every lawsuit and impeachment the evidence comes forward.

[@paulb9156]

Glad you maintained your integrity and didn’t give in. We need more people like you in the White House (or any government). The President needs the facts and honesty, and then he can make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are always bad actors.

[@bigtex5343]

We were in Afghanistan because of failed policies for 50 years!

[@Chris-qf9qm]

Restoring confidence in our government can only be gained by dismantling secret bureaucracy with no accountability.

[@johantrenier1685]

You treated President Trump like he was a lifetime bureaucrat.

[@4-SeasonNature]

Outstanding conversation.

[@katadam2186]

President had his views and he was right about them

[@yewtree2552]

John McMaster is a honest man -the conclusion I’ve got out of this conversation. I am looking forward to reading your book, Mr. McMaster!

[@GuestwithKhan]

Mr. Robinson, This has been one of my favorite episodes of Uncommon Knowledge. You are one of my favorite host. And HR, it is always a delight. Best,

[@jonaFUN999]

I discovered McMaster from Goodfellows years ago on this channel when I was looking for more Hoover shows other than this one. I’m ashamed to say I initially wrote him off as some bro-like, airhead, army guy. Then I realised he’s absolutely brilliant.

[@jeffrp8388]

Most interesting and much appreciated interview. I found Gen McMaster's assessment of Trump to be the most in line with my own that I have heard, especially his comment about the reaction to Trump being far more drastic than anything Trump said or did.

[@dongaetano3687]

Hi Peter, long time no comments, excessively busy with a writing and research project (as a lifelong carpenter Oy!). Getting ready to wrap up I'm going to be visiting Hoover more often now. Primarily UK with you, tom Sowell, etc. and Good Fellas with Bill and the Fellas, John, Niall and HR. I've watched many of HR's Battlegrounds and the 6 minute segements on Warfare (I think). Others are the lawers, John Yu and older guy, the brilliant Stephen Kotkin, Dr Jay guiding us through covid along with Dr Atlas and more, not to mention when Supreme Commnder Rice is in an hour spot with anyone. This interview only raises my respect for the General. I'll grab the book, as it seems to give us a lesson in character as well as insight into the administration. Stay well Hoover fellows, thanks for all the learning.

[@MrFurley2u]

Big fan of Peter, HR McMaster, and uncommon knowledge! 👏 👌

[@dgh5760]

I've never seen Peter interrupt a guest so much as in this interview. It was a bit unnerving to see that. I have always enjoyed this show and the guests as well as how the interviews were conducted. So I don't really understand what happened this time.

[@anne-mariebuisson3194]

General McMaster strong morals are admirable. Peter for the first time, I thought you could have giving the General more talking time! Sorry for the small criticism, still really like your interviews!

[@billywild5440]

Strongly agree.

[@RN-lo6xc]

What a book! future best seller no doubt - critical insights into the phenomenon that is isolationism/populism, filtered through the experience of a wise and measured man.

[@ananthkashyap1286]

Been listening to McMaster for a little over an year on Goodfellows and Battlegrounds. One thing he's convinced me about is that he's a defining example of a warmongering neocon.

[@mickey_rose]

Love HR. His military insights are always appreciated. He seems like such a straight shooter. His moral rectitude should prove a fitting object for imitation by the youngsters out there. ❤

[@christianbolt5761]

Thoughtful wise commentary.

[@sebastiannordemann2346]

A total CHAD, Gen McMaster. Superb professional and fellow. Great human being. Kudos for having him!!!

[@1526andrews]

He's a remarkable individual. I wish he'd run for the Presidency

[@SixStringUk]

Peter usually listens to his guests, but not in this case. Throughout the interview he talks more than general McMaster and constantly cuts him off mid sentence and I hate that so much.

[@kathrynludrick4821]

Awesome interview

[@s15e]

Pretty interesting to listen for a European. Thank you to both for this conversation.

[@joniheisenberg]

His comment that Trump “is not familiar with history” is alarming.

[@Nunyabizness_]

It seems to me that McMaster wanted more war and Trump didnt. Thats what Im getting from this.

[@tetonriver6068]

Great interview. Answered a bunch of questions about HR that I’ve been wondering about in terms of his time of service in the Trump administration. Given his description of his time of service, I feel much better about the role that he tried to play during the tumultuous first year of trumps administration. However, it goes un rebutted. Even more interesting would be a joint interview/debate with HR and his antagonist Steve Bannon, or given the present difficulties of that, the original national security advisor he replaced, a primary victim of the Russia hoax, Mike Flynn. I would love to see a competent and civil debate between the Goodfellows and somebody from the America first crew who has the chops to lay out that vision in a way that challenges the foreign policy vision of the Goodfellas. For my part, unanswered questions remain. I think that would be a fantastic debate that might help resolve some of the entrenched foreign policy divisions of The political right and help chart an agreed upon path for the future.

[@Rainy_Day12234]

A Canadian New York Times journalist just wrote that the Constitution is a danger to democracy. Is this what Harris meant by quoting Marx by not being burdened by what has been.

[@samanthacat1211]

Experienced and sincere and straightforward advices often lucky enough to learn for our own benefit of learning experiences. Many people won’t even bother to talk about at all. Whoever wins, bring our country reunite together for getting things done right and quickly will already benefit to our country America’s greatness. Efforts will come from all. Learning from accomplishments and mistakes will achieve greatness quickly and better. A united nation America 🇺🇸 will be a happier nation and freedoms by Constitution will make America strong and prosperous, Americans will be happier quickly.

[@fluxin9467]

Just about to start chapter 5 of the book. The first four chapters have been an intriguing read so far. I appreciates McMaster’s level headed and analytical approach to describing the unconventional 45th president.

[@lawrencemartin24]

Steve Bannon who had Trumps ear clashed with H.R. continuously.

[@JB-ti7bl]

Definitely want to read HR's book. It'll be the fairest assessment of the Trump WH for sure.

[@RNemy509]

I believe Trump has learned a lot from his time in office. This would be of great benefit in choosing cabinet members, staffers, etc.

[@timsmith1138]

Superb discussion! One of Peter’s best.

[@Wizard-xt5ld]

The entire security council should be disbanded. if you know you know.

[@peetky8645]

has McMaster ever given an opinion of the behavior of the Vindman's

[@shingnosis]

The interview you should have done probably two years ago, but better late than never.

[@MrSpaz12]

So despite of all the good president Trump did, he should have acted more like a politician? Well, I'd rather have a president that won't bullshit me just so I'd like him more. You can please some of the people some of the time but not all people all of the time. Obviously enough people feel similar.

[@michaelk5825]

Always like what HR McMaster has to say. Especially, I share his concerns about the toxicity in politics and the willingness of many to undermine our country in order to gain political advantage.

[@importantname]

I find it hard to watch interviews where the questions take longer to say and set up, than the itime permitted for the person to answer. I would have like to hear more of Mr McMaster, less of the person asking questions.

[@sociallyhostileelement3425]

I have a lot of respect for the general, but it seems like some weird timing for an anti-Trump book, unless he wants Kamala to be president. A few months earlier or a few months later would have made a lot more sense if he's not actively trying to influence the election.

[@VDwSk2ku4t]

It is a valid point. However I also don’t think anyone has obligations to clear this kind of doubt when he wants to publish a book. The person who speaks out has the right to be viewed as a simple speaking out person too.

[@tictacdude3468]

I’d like to believe that it’s not that black and white. One should be able to criticize Trump or Harris while still supporting that candidate over their opponent. Talking about it now could be just as prudent since it gives the public a better understanding of Trump’s presidency. I can criticize Trump for his foreign policy when in office, but I also can say I feel like the Biden-Harris administration has handled foreign policy much worse.

[@annamaeludlum]

Doesn't sound anti-Trump at all. He is fair, more than that, he reveals the false narratives that surrounded Trump.

[@lawrencemartin24]

Publishers want to sell books. Guaranteed H.R. got an upfront advance to tell this story ceding control over the publishing date. Makes fiscal sense to the publisher to release this now.

[@NosferatuandFriends]

​@@VDwSk2ku4t There used to be this thing called civic virtue we practiced in this country. It had some obligations.

[@leswilliamson3587]

Awesome Patriot

[@azurebadger]

Right. He called trumps agenda alt right, and forgets that trumps actual foreign policy doctrine is the best in living memory. You’re not being objective

[@polvoazul]

​@@azurebadgerhave you heard the interview? He praised the foreign policy shift multiple times

[@sully_n_dubs]

I read HRs first book and I don't think I've seen a more loyal public servant to this country. Fascinating interview. It's strange. I knew no details but you could sense that Mattis and Tillerson viewed their jobs exactly as described. And Bannons and Priebus antics didn't surprise me at all. So glad HR was in that white house.

[@ConfusedAbyssinianCat-oi4fh]

To many moderns,risk is a threat.

[@Nathan-in-Cwmbran]

A truly helpful perspective.

[@briancross6820]

ALL of WHICH congress WILL undermine, undermines and undermined YEAH or NAY..... I'll VOTE irrelevant to WE THE PEOPLE LIVE, choose for our self evident natural law TOO PRESIDENT DONALD J TRUMP COMMANDER IN CHIEF

[@dougsherman1562]

Fantastic insight, thank you both.

[@aussie807]

mcmaster for president👍👍

[@1526andrews]

If only

[@annamaeludlum]

Love these interviews

[@huna1950]

I’m from UK and loved this in depth inner structures systems stuff. Along with all the human aspects Also missing a Stephen Kotkin update on the world from his and his historical analysis Great stuff chaos thank you so much

[@timothytaylor8870]

Absolutely awesome thank you both!

[@TheJoshuaPimentel]

Hey Siri: interview the Deep State for me.

[@etownsterguy9489]

Mattis had it right. McMaster had it dead wrong despite all that lame theorizing and self justification. He owed allegiance to this nation not one seriously flawed man.

[@Broomtwo]

I appreciate that HR is honest. The timing of the book is suspect though, especially in an election year, making the book about one of the leading candidates. Honestly it just seems to be providing ammunition for Kamala Harris to use against Trump, and I do not see how that helps our country. Trump, for all his faults, had the best foreign policy of any president in at least a few decades. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have had the worst foreign policy in the history of our country. We need Trump to win, and we need people like HR in his administration.

[@dawnvasquez1139]

'At war with ourselves"...sounds like your opinion of your performance within the trump whitehouse...If true...i have only one question.."As the holder of such high station...how could you allow such a thing?

[@recherche4528]

Trump’s downfall was his handling of the pandemic. He could have adopted a posture of “we as Americans are in this together & in for the fight of our lives.”He could have united people & demonstrated leadership. Instead he became defensive. The beginning of the end was his comment about sunlight & injecting bleach. It was also apparent that he was surrounded by “ yes men” including Dr.Birx.

[@user-bt8vn3dj6o]

Need to buy the book.

[@corrinnereynolds4091]

Great discussion thank you

[@garyschultz425]

Excellent

[@NosferatuandFriends]

"I'm not super enthusiastic about any of these labels." "Bannon had viewed my efforts to give Trump options as constraining the president from the alt-right agenda..."

[@charlesmackey8179]

Always excellent.

[@katswartz209]

Just somebody else making money on Trumps name !!!! MAGA 2024!!!!

[@ElijahLim-k6z]

Thank you! I just got the ebook. As time marches on, I should have more time to read it. 😊

[@marshalmaddening9011]

This seems to include a reprise of the closing remarks from "The Cain Mutiny" (@ 40:00 or thereabouts.)

[@ChornyjKit]

Trump should stop Mentioning Victor Orban. It's stupid.

[@cragnamorra]

I gotta say I was a little flabbergasted to learn that George Shultz and Cap Weinberger had no prior clue about the SDI announcement, and essentially heard about it in the speech along with everyone else.

[@TheFinalBoss429]

The fact that he ever listened to anyone is shocking after what HR just explained. If even his inner circle was trying to manipulate him let alone his enemies...while I also have respect for the General, I didn't (appreciate/understand?) the characterization of him at the end of the interview. Is he an unstable person? You make it sound as if he is some loose cannon (4 years no war). Seems like double speak even if unintended.

[@BobbyWhitby]

middle east no war really?

[@GRANDMASTER3D]

H.R. is very very hopeful about another Trump term. I am too but I'm not optimistic.

[@zaffo757]

Try dealing with NATO ...NTMA ...good Lord.

[@antskilu1354]

Brilliant, first they hammered Iraq from the air 2 weeks and then frontal attack Iraq forces in desert while they went home to drink some water so that 20% was friendly fire , then call each other a genius , classics

[@DanHowardMtl]

45:00 I guess HR missed the republican convention where Trump had Teamsters President Sean O'Brien who got big applause.

[@JimmiesChoices]

K JR should be back there a calm and considered approach well done

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

One mans opinion freely given and worth ALMOST that much. The 2nd Trump administration will be Much better, more effective than the 1st. Because when Donald Trump was sworn in on Jan 20 2017 he was an amateur, he didn't Really know The Game/The Rules. Now He Does. To quote Andrew Klavan "He Learns."

[@BeeKaye]

Let the guest speak. My question is does Trump understand all of this and will he make better decisions going forward.

[@LPJCP]

Trump's casinos in New Jersey went bankrupt.

[@Rainy_Day12234]

Indian casinos in Connecticut and a recession bankrupted them.

[@aurelius5961]

Stop capitalizing on mistrust for partisan political gain at the expense of undermining democratic institutions. Really interesting topic.

[@shanemichaelyee]

Wow- how people in business and people in government see the things so differently. Have fun voting for Kamala HR 😂

[@gregorschoner9682]

Peter Robinson was surprisingly bad in this interview, interrupting often and unnecessarily, dominating the conversation too much, too many quotes, bringing his own views too much into the foreground. He is usually much better.

[@WalterBurton]

Peter considers Roger Stone a good friend. That's interesting.

[@nelsonmuturi2187]

Jeez. What a great understatement spin doctor. Mussolini would love this guy! I look 4wd to reading his book ... if only to try to understand how an intelligent human being can justify the unjustifiable.

[@drgeorgek]

The commander in chief wanted to serve himself while all the general wanted to do was serve his country, as he had done

[@ginsoakedraisin3694]

Interesting timing for this passive aggressive criticism of Trump. Also, saw a Clinton post on X promoting HR's message that Trump was asking very stupid questions. McMaster. Wonder what Trump would say about YOUR service.

[@dawit1313]

I follow both of you intellectually and admire your assessment in most subject matters, but let’s be objective, truthful , non partisan and country first for this issue. You downplay Trump’s vice and treat to American heroic and exceptional experiment. Even if you want to be rational, for those who listen to you and don’t have historical depth or national duty experience, you are adding vitamins to his appeal or cult stature, let’s work and sacrifice to the country first and its values. Why are Republicans intellectuals are scared to call a spade a spade? Trump is not the option, there are capable people that can lead the party and country.

[@grahamcombs4752]

After so much that has happened, especially since the turn of the century, can we afford office politics or a Sir Francis Urquhart? (There's an excerpt from H.R. McMaster's book in the August 24/25 Wall Street Journal.)

[@judyamyx7946]

I know this interview is all about promoting a book and all that but I feel its all one sided and I would like to see an interview regarding the Biden administration and what it has or has not done for our country. Of course, there is no book to promote there. You have to hear both sides to make an informed decision and that just doesnt happen these days.

[@katswartz209]

Trump baddest man on the Planet!!!!

[@barbarabrooks4747]

Trump has developed more minority support than any other Republican Presidential candidate. However, the media refuses to say anything positive about him. The media monopolies need to be broken up. And prescription drug ads need to be confined to media in which people can read about the drug instead of showing cute videos.

[@_B_B.]

The three interest groups A, B, and C are as the General says as old as political power itself. The King’s court often surrounds the King with elaborate rituals and symbols that emphasize the monarch's divine or semi-divine status. This creates a layer of separation between the King and the subjects, which can act as a buffer against impulsive actions. The rituals serve to remind both the King and the court of the King's responsibilities and the sacred nature of their role, thereby encouraging restraint. Kings typically have a council of advisors or trusted courtiers who play a critical role in decision-making. These advisors can provide guidance, offer alternative perspectives, and sometimes act as a check on the King's decisions. By surrounding the King with knowledgeable and experienced individuals, the court can help mitigate rash or impulsive decisions. The ceremonial aspects of kingship, such as the requirement for the King to perform certain rituals or adhere to specific protocols, can also serve to limit the king's actions. These constraints are not just about maintaining tradition but also about ensuring that the King's power is exercised within a framework that is understood and accepted by the society. The King is often seen as an outsider or a figure with a divine mandate. This perception can create a sense of impartiality, as the king is not bound by local interests or factions. This outsider status can help the King remain above personal disputes and biases, thus protecting the kingdom from impulsive decisions driven by local politics.

[@P8log]

Do you have an online gift shop?

[@robertprawendowski2850]

⭐️

[@jimr3094]

I would like to join the growing list of people who want HR to run for presIdent of the USA, being dissatisfied with the current candidates for that office and believing that the current VP lacks the experience for the job and that Donald Trump is too cozy with tyrant dictators and too likely to throw the new democracy of Ukraine to the wolves (pressuring Ukraine to surrender territory to Russia, which would be akin to giving a green light for tyrant dictators across the world to disrupt the current world rule of law, throwing the current world order of relative prosperity into a state of disorder and encouraging all tyrants to make a mad rush to acquire atomic weapons). Why does Mr. Trump not state his plans for dealing with Russia? Unofficial statements by his subordinates do not carry any weight. Thanks to Peter Robinson who is a great moderator. All Hover Institution podcasts are outstanding!

[@Cedfer69]

Peter was working hard to show Trump as ‘the greatest’

[@-dash]

HR '28

[@zaffo757]

HR was too good to be around the power brokers and play fair.