FAQ Which is better, Grooves or Mesh? How do I cut Grooves?

[@JackpineJody]

I really appreciated this video. I had been researching the question of grooves versus mesh, and you gave me a clear, well-supported answer in favor of grooves. AND also taught me how to to make the grooves. Thanks so much!

[@JackpineJody]

I used the tip end of a hand saw, put the wood on the floor and stood over it so I could put all my puny weight on the saw. Got sooo many nice grooves in just a few minutes!

[@h4bats]

You are most welcome. Thanks for loving bats!

[@darrylbuckett5380]

I use an angle grinder with a 1mm blade, works a treat and is quick. Cheers

[@billlumberg5746]

Great advice!

[@h4bats]

Thank you, we do our best to stay current and follow the research. Thanks for loving bats!

[@DowieFarm]

I have access to relatively cost effective rough sawn pine. Would that work, with silicone in the joints to prevent water and wind?

[@foxhole99]

3:22 what about stainless steel staples as the netting itself with grooves cut in? 😮

[@alexreid4131]

Good info as I am building some boxes this week and was going to go the mesh route but now I'll just cut some dados on the table saw instead. Thanks!

[@h4bats]

Don't forget we sell kits. I love the DIY approach, but sometimes you just want to get them together and up on a pole!

[@alexreid4131]

@@h4bats Roger that. One question I have is on the two and three chambered designs. I note that there are grooves cut on the back wall but not on the chamber inserts. Do the bats not need to hang on to grooves on the inserts as well as on the back wall?

[@JasonPeliwo]

Alex Reid there should be grooves on all surfaces ideally. Hope the build went well for you.

[@pershop4950]

Thanks for the idea on scoring the wood instead of using mesh.

[@joehumpston7937]

I used a circular saw adjusted for shallow cuts!

[@johngatland]

Just the information I needed, thank you..

[@johnh9748]

I also have concerns about the netting (typically plastic) outgassing at 100 degrees. Probably not real good for the bats. I am assuming they are not using some special "bat house" mesh, but retro-fitting mesh designed for some other purposes.

[@othelloperrello6604]

Thanks so much for this video, exactly what I needed to know!

[@forest_357]

I used a grinder and a metal cut off wheel, worked good.

[@h4bats]

Yep, anything to rough up the wood will do the job!

[@davidkessler5103]

How do you think a very thin coat of mortar would work rather than cutting grooves?

[@h4bats]

So long as it did not fall off, probably, but it will add a lot of weight.

[@pritchardhall]

Good information. Tough camera view.

[@judykelly4751]

Thank you. Great video

[@carolinepaquier8156]

LOL I know I'm two years late but.... First, thank you for your advice re mesh. I was going to opt for it because it seemed like a good idea. I never thought about tangling so thank you for that. In Texas, at least the DFW area, keeping a bat house warm is not a problem. Keeping it cool and well ventilated is. Our heat can get up to 113 and is more often than not humid/muggy with little or no breeze. My first thought is to make it not only a bit deeper front to back (maybe one to one and a half inches) to allow better air flow but also add a taller "dead air" space at the top allowing hot air to rise farther up before being vented to the outside. What about small ventilation holes all over the house like a sieve? Also re tree mounting, any thoughts on successful placement such as height, proximity to other branches and squirrels, leaf cover, wind exposure, etc. And a final question, how large should a tree branch "at least" be for a tall, narrow bat house. We have older oak trees but nothing like the evergreens always featured on "how to" set up bat house videos.

[@h4bats]

Trees should generally be avoided as it promotes predator access and can offer shade when not needed. Typically a bat house should be at least 12 feet high, 15 feet is my preferred minimum when possible. Bat houses of the rocket box style, what you seem to be mentioning in your comment should be at least 36" tall and are generally pole mounted but could be placed on the side of a tree. I wouldn't put a bat house on any wood pole or tree less than 4" in diameter.

[@carolinepaquier8156]

@@h4bats Thanks. I'll keep delving. Got to feel the neighbors out before I start anything but will follow your recs if I do.

[@seancripps4897]

Thank you sir. Im building my very first bat house this spring

[@h4bats]

Thanks for loving bats!

[@garyjones6994]

Why not use something like white cedar siding? The rough, natural grooves work well. I had many bats roosting behind the fake shutters, on the cedar siding, on our house in central NJ.

[@h4bats]

Cedar has oils in it that can cause some irritation to the bats, but so long as it is ventilated and once the sun cooks out the oils for a while, it makes a good bat house. Second, all of the cedar we source around here is from Canada and is old growth, I don't want to support an industry cutting old growth forest and I've not found a way to buy managed cedar. I have also used cypress, but discovered the same problem, despite being told it was "sourced from managed growth area", I learned that just meant they managed to cut every other tree, not that they actually replaced them. The plywood we use is sourced from a managed forest and is pine which grows fast. The quality of plywood we source is one of the highest grades as well making it flat and consistent. Finally, it comes down to producing a consistent product in volume, with cedar I was having about 20% material rejection for warping and splits. For Cypress it was much higher than that.

[@JohnS916]

@@h4bats I like your environmental concern and practicing what you preach. This venture is a win-win project. It provides safe homes for a unique species and a connection to nature too. Very satisfying to know you are doing some good and giving back to wildlife where the greatest threat to most of them are humans. I think kids would get a kick out of watching their bat houses thrive and following their pet bats nightly routines. This type of wildlife watching could inspire some kids to become more interested in the sciences, you never know.

[@godssheep3959]

Now this may or may not really be a problem but my concern is entanglement not when the house gets old and the staples give way but just in general I know it is easy to get hung up on certain material when it comes to needle sharp objects. Whats to stop a bats claws from getting hung up in the mesh to the point they can't let go? I never actually thought about the mesh getting unstable over time. That is also a major concern.

[@robertstonebreaker8394]

Getting ready to make a rocket house was debating on mesh or scratches the mesh seems to be a big hassle gonna go with scratches .Thanks good info.

[@joehumpston7937]

Well, the scratches can be quite tedious. If you want to do it, I’d recommend a skill-saw adjusted for shallow cuts.

[@alanwhitsitt5196]

Old old video here, but I wonder if just using EXTREMELY coarse sandpaper would do the trick? I make bird houses where I put some metallic screen inside by the exit of the house. I put it in with rivets. No chance of coming loose there.

[@h4bats]

Anything to make the surface very rough. I'm not sure course sandpaper would be as good as deep scratches from a saw or blade, but it would be better than nothing.

[@tavarisjones551]

that looks like a lot of work. you ever tried a hand plane with a toothed iron?

[@h4bats]

I have, it generally doesn't work well on plywood if the outer surface is too thin. I find scaring the surface with the end of a hand saw (that last tooth) tends to do well if you have to do it manually. Otherwise, the machine does it and doesn't complain, even works in the dark!. Thanks for loving bats (and woodworking).

[@liamlive100]

Great video man 👍👍❤️

[@h4bats]

Thanks, I do appreciate positive comments.

[@phillipsmith21]

My houses are being made from rough sawn oak. No need for grooves to be cut just leave the inside surface rough and sand the outside.

[@walktheway6857]

What about affixing asphalt shingle to the wood surface for a highly textured surface for the bats to grip instead of grooves or netting? Has anyone tried that?

[@h4bats]

Shingles are coarse and shed rocks not to mention the sticky tar when they get hot... and the heat too. While bats do like it warm the shingles could pose a "hot foot" problem for them. The still have to be secured by something that could corrode away and cause the shingles to fall out. Still, better than tangling and killing bats though. Grooves, rough surfaces on wood are the best way to go.

[@walktheway6857]

Thanks for the reply. Being that the shingles would be inside, they should not get any hotter than anything else inside, like the wood surface. Outside shingles could get very hot. The shingles would shed granules and could leave traces of tar on the bat's claws. The coarseness is probably somewhat more so than cave rock, but provide good a gripping surface. Since it doesn't seem to be necessary, it seems that the roughened wood is sufficient. Thanks again.

[@TheRainHarvester]

How much guano could I expect to collect for my garden per 100 bats? Like a quart a season? I was going to put a pan around the bottom of the pole.

[@terrylobdell8576]

You'll get more than a quart.

[@h4bats]

With a persistent colony of 100 bats, you could get a reasonable amount, hard to say. The wind, sunlight drying it up and missing the target will reduce the amount you collect. I have seen a healthy colony of around 400 bats produce roughly a 2" blanket of guano on the ground for a diameter of about 3 feet their first year.

[@TheRainHarvester]

@@h4bats thanks!!!

[@sebern2]

Does the species of bat matter in selecting a house? If so, how do I find out which species are in my area of Kansas? Also, we bat watch often in the back yard. They move from the neighbors large elm to a large maple across the street and don't seem to stop at our large elm? Why is that?

[@h4bats]

You local DNR office should have an idea what bats are native to Kansas. Rest assured, there are colony roosting bats in Kansas. The University of Kansas has posted some material here kufs.ku.edu/media/kufs/libres/mammals_of_kansas/list.html#cbat

[@dulcimerdan]

I found your website. What I'd like to know is how you get people to pay these outrageous prices?

[@h4bats]

The price is the price, everything is more expensive lately. With material costs, labor costs, shipping costs, we set the price to what we can sell them for and that's it. If they don't sell, we'll stop making them, here we are 18 years later, still making bat houses. I appreciate not everyone can afford the prices, but we do make them to the highest quality standards and in the U.S.A. We've been offered many times to have them MFG overseas and shipped in bulk for about 1/2 the cost (and I personally know some of our competition does exactly that), but I wouldn't give the examples we received away for free, must less import and sell them. I know we are different and we can't compete on price, so we compete on quality. Funny thing is, I've noticed the "other places" raising their prices closer to ours and quoting or paraphrasing our information, even trying to cheat and say they sell "Habitats For Bats". I decided to be flattered rather than angry with them. For 18 years I've watched them come and go, but we are still here. Thanks for loving bats.

[@bethblake6072]

So I realize this is an older video, but what about using a wood burner to burn the grooves in? Would there be anything harmful in doing that?

[@h4bats]

I don't think there would be anything harmful about it, but it may not produce the gripping surface you expect. With burning you are hardening the surface of the wood and leaving a smooth groove behind. With cutting a groove the surface remains rougher and with sharper edges.

[@mrbakerjjim]

i used the table saw to cut groves and the the had saw to make some random cut at a 45 or so to the groves

[@h4bats]

That works too. I generally "repair" baffles with skipped grooves or too shallow etc... on the table saw.

[@tobiasbeeler6946]

Why not just use OSB plates...?

[@w4baham]

Any easy way to keep wasps from building in the houses also?

[@h4bats]

Paper wasps typically will not build in a space less than 1", so with the 3/4" chambers they tend to build at the bottom where easily knocked off. Sometimes in an empty bat house they may make their way to the top and build. You can use a 1/2" PVC pipe about 1 feet long and use it to whip back and forth (in the winter when NO BATS are present) to remove wasps nests and/or dirt dobber nests (those mud building "wasps"). But I'm not aware of anyway to prevent wasps from building, we live in the South, there are millions of them and they are awful little creatures with which to deal.

[@lastEvergreen]

One easy solution is a textured material attached to the inside walls. Like bark.

[@h4bats]

Make sure it is a natural material and cannot detach and present a danger to the bats. Thanks for loving bats!

[@marc-andrebenoit5776]

Do you ship to Canada ?

[@h4bats]

Not at this time, we have tried but bad things always end up happening like bonus fees of over $70 when it arrives (taxes), returned shipments, stuck in customs for months etc... we have honestly given up at the moment on reach Canada with all the issues we have had.

[@Mdotis100]

Sounds like rough cut wood right off the mill would be perfect

[@h4bats]

It does work indeed, just a little difficult on consistency when packaging as a product or trying to machine on a CNC machine. Thanks for loving bats!

[@Noone-rt6pw]

Why wouldn't pallet wood be good?

[@h4bats]

Heat treated pallet would is fine, but make sure you don't use pallet wood treated with chemicals.

[@josh-fr3hr]

metal screen is the go to. they are Bats not rockets

[@h4bats]

The metal can corrode over time (even galvanized) and come loose. With metal there is a risk of entrapment if it comes loose and the additional concern that as it corrodes it can make "sharp" points they could become injured on.

[@stitchedpumpkin5905]

Thanks. The box I bought has 5 half inch grooves on a perfectly sanded surface. Lol. Not grooves every half inch.

[@h4bats]

That would not have been one of our bat houses then. It is easy to add more groove or generally rough up the surface with either a hand saw or carpenters knife (just be careful). thanks for loving bats!

[@avischmied9120]

Hi, may I buy 2 bat houses from you? when where and how please. thank you Avram

[@h4bats]

Hello. We have an estore that you can purchase bat houses, kits and other batty items. It can be found at: estore.habitatforbats.org Just to let you know, right now (April 2019), we only sell to/ship to the Cont. US..

[@darkforestbathouses8240]

Yes, I use same drywall knife and people its best to tilt the knife slightly like you are looking at the teeth. And also stain the wood first because it softens it up and makes the grooves much easier,deeper and straighter.

[@kristiroberts7424]

Seems like a no brainer 🤷

[@Imwright720]

Is mesh or grooves better. Lol 😂

[@h4bats]

Depends on what you are trying to do, for bat houses it's best to be groovy. For fishing, mesh is the way to go!

[@JohnS916]

@@h4bats What about using a Dremel tool to make the grooves? I think they offer an attachment that mimics a router. I'm going to look into this.

[@DB-oz2ki]

Just me, get a shaft install 20 saw blades with spacers between them. Rig up a table saw. One pass all groves cut at once.

[@h4bats]

I built something like that... it was terrifying.