How to Square and Indicate a Vise on Your CNC Mill - Haas Automation Tip of the Day

Have you ever spent way too much time trying to properly square a vise on your mill? In the latest episode of the Haas Tip of the Day series, Mark shows you a simple trick that will make squaring and indicating your vise quick and easy! He also shows you the proper type of stone to use to prep your table, and gives you some great tips on checking your vise for correct placement to avoid damaging your machine.
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[@delano62]

One bolt in, and one out is something I never thought of. Thanks for the tip. This has to make the process so much easier.

[@alexzdanowicz8977]

I am an apprentice on lunch watching this and it just saved my ass thank you haas

[@Pieh0]

You could say it saved your HASS! *badumtish*

[@gleams4552]

You better start watching how to clock two vices at the same time. It will save your hass again

[@siberianTiger639]

​@@Pieh0hahahaahagahahahahaaaass

[@dunn-ng5878]

Nice , I watched some videos about set up vice on the machine but with Mark's tip always is the best. waiting for next tip how to set up part and tools offset

[@brytonpinkstaff3528]

As a new machinist just getting his first CNC experienced job, these tips of the day help me tremendously (And keep me from having to go to my boss looking like a fool lol). From just starting out I'd probably never think about having a vise that is too big, thank you Haas!

[@dfpolitowski2]

You should be able to go to your boss or anyone to as for help.

[@beefcurtainz69]

Rich B u can't ask for help? What would they say if you asked a question like that? Also what u mean by 2 m 30s to start programming? U r timed?

[@Houcnc]

beefcurtainz69 it's better to ask then to do the job and mess it all up I promise haha

[@FredFlintstone21]

@Rich B I totally get what your saying. While your comment is a yr old, it still is true. If you were studying machining books and videos at home, and or taking a class here and there, that creates talking points of what you learned, which can be discussed at work. And if you got shut down by the guru at work once, dont be afraid to try again. No's can turn into yesses. Never give up.

[@your_belief_vs_everything]

Oh that is a hard lesson to learn, I know. Dented doors and covers. But I've seen worse when a newbie put a vise too close to the front of the machine which had a midaco pallet changer. Of you want to know what happened I'm sure there are vids on YT of similar mistakes.

[@imranpathan1959]

One of the best vmc teaching channel Hass tip of the day

[@cinematictheatre2577]

I absolutely love these tips of the day! Please keep going! Go more in detail of how you keep your machines so clean and not rusted. I live in Louisiana and our machines, tools, vices, chucks, bolts, basically anything metal is rusted to crap. We don’t have an ACed shop. Please cover what can help

[@ceejay8078]

This haas tip of the day has helped me out so much!!

[@sharg0]

A couple of things to note. 1: Check for burrs first, if there are none no reason to stone. But don't forget there will always be a high-spot around a dent when it's created! 2a: Don't keep stoning just in the same position of the table, that will make the surface uneven in the long run. 2b: If possible, move the vise around to different positions (a vice with slots instead of fixed positions for the bolts are more flexible and you can use 4 bolts with less torque to get the same holding power = less wear and strain). 3: To reduce the amount of oil in the coolant (and your lungs), apply RP with a cloth, not spray. And personally I really prefer diamond "stones", much less wear on them = less abrasives in the machine. 4: Before setting up, look at your drawings and planning of the job, how accurate do you need to be? (There is no exact, always a tolerance.) Those hoses for cleaning the machine with coolant? I just love 'em!

[@145satoshi]

What grit of the diamond stones would you recommend for removing burrs and for flattening?

[@tylert8151]

Feel like this guy almost explained it so well that as a beginner I just need some practice. Getting back into machine shop after only a year experience..years ago I’m kinda pissed nobody showed me while I was there how to setup. Seems simple in a way I’m sure still a lot to learn. But I loved operating

[@jacoblukachinsky8774]

Thank you so much for these videos!

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

Good safety tips with fun tongue in cheek humor sales pitch (hopefully not needed) for Haas parts :-) Mark is an excellent presenter.

[@popapopas]

Great video! Thanks for the advice!

[@byforest2823]

Thanks for the advice on how to straighten the vice !

[@tkweldingmachining]

I would like to see more 4 axis as well. Could you also, do something covering the use of corner rounding and chamfers when manually programing.

[@robf4013]

Great video series. We need more!

[@phranklyn]

You should be very specific that you need to dial in the FIXED jaw of the vice. The number of students I've seen try and dial in the moving jaw.

[@markterryberry4477]

That's a really good point. We need to be aware of which jaw moves, and which doesn't! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqHTip2QabiibMU

[@garyfinch6643]

Good point.

[@eviltricster8090]

I'm a couple years into having learned to set up parts at the shop I work at. I've always just loaded up a vise and set up, never thinking of checking clearance because it was the vise I was told to use. I'd never have bothered to check before this video. I'll never need to where I'm at but I may need to in the future.

[@ramonbenitez3757]

Great tip today and great job👍

[@SteveN-bh3wv]

Another awesome, informative video. Quick question: what concoction do you use in your spray bottle for "RP" Rust Preventative?

[@jryer1]

Excellent tip!

[@spencerprescott808]

I've been working at my first CNC job for a few months now and I wished I found these videos out sooner. Great job on the Video!

[@Tnj8228]

These videos and titans of cnc made me the machinist I am today. You would be surprised gow many people cant set up a vice or even setup a work order. Keep at it, if your not learning your falling behind.

[@spencerprescott808]

@@Tnj8228 THanks, Sadly I got laid off at my CNC job in Nov 2019 because "I can't keep up fast enough" But after a year now I am willing to give it another go (After this mess of a year 2020) as a CNC Apprentice. Hopefully I can find one in Michigan.

[@andyvan5692]

nice entry level tip, good for us to know, any tips on the 4th and 5th axis chucking systems and how they go on the table??

[@remohugentobler4712]

Love your videos! I usually use the stone with a little oil on the table after cleanup. This way, the table's surface get lots better and the stone gets clean at the same time;) Just make sure to whipe of the dirt frome the taple after time and after finishing up, clean of the oil from the stone to prevent damage. Give it a try👍

[@pacoryu]

What store can I find that kind of stone?

[@phillhuddleston9445]

The other option for the tool room mill is to mount the vise sideways, not super easy to load and unload parts but it will work.

[@CrawfordMethod]

I wrote a little code to sweep the X axis incremental back and forth 5”. You set your indicator on the back left jaw as shown in the video, then hit start on the program. You can watch the indicator and adjust your vise with both hands free, no jog wheel needed. It is one of those programs that just “lives” on the machine forever.

[@panca15]

Thank's sir for your info. 👍

[@MegaJohnhammond]

the best thing I've ever found to use on your stone to keep it clean and not load up with crap--Simple Green

[@michaelrichards7223]

I may not own a haas, but I always appreciate the tips you guys publish. I was wondering if there might be a mathematical formula or rule of thumb for working out the vise adjustment. I usually just tap it close on the first sweep, then work with about 90%. So if it's 0.010" out on my DX6, I'll knock it 0.009" forward and expect the other side of the jaw to move that extra 0.001" Unless the pivot is directly below the jaw edge, I expect it will always require somewhat less than knocking the other side all the way to 0. Thoughts?

[@CuscaKid]

Great video nice and simple for a beginner. Kurt vices are awesome we use larger ones at my shop without any protruding in the back when closed. A great way to unclog your stone is with varsol (mineral spirit ) and a piece of wood.

[@haasautomation]

+Carlos Diaz Great vises. The D675 with the protruding nut was replaced by the D688, where the nut does not protrude (also more clamp force, wider opening). There are SO many of those D675 vises out there, and more vises like it are being made by other brands every day, that we wanted to let people know to check for it. Thanks for the comment about cleaning the stones, and for taking the time to check out our latest Tip of the Day video!

[@massimonobili8253]

Ottimo video...complimenti..

[@rafevg]

What are the characteristics of aluminum oxide stone (smooth and rough side)?

[@imranpathan1959]

MARK TEACHING STYLE IS OASAME

[@pwest3732]

Mark, as a suggestion, on smaller mills, where is no need to mount vises sideways. We have 3 of the TECO PWS-6900 vises mounted on our new TM-1P, at normal orientation, center of the table, with 1/2 bolts and t-nuts. The closed clearance on the Z- way cover is 1/2" or more. Cut about an inch of the hex off for door clearance and 3d printed handles to ride along as the machine is running. No more messing around with and looking for the floppy metal handles. Printed handles had to be designed to allow door clearance during operation and also to clear the vise as it is loosened or tightened. The ABS is more than strong enough to handle the 200lb gorilla tightening the vise and again, the handle is always there. And, maybe someday will make some metal handles, but for now, no need.

[@Hirudin]

Your initial tool choices gave me a couple good laughs, thanks!

[@aaftaabaalam4663]

Nice idea sir

[@samsonbanda1954]

Nice Demo

[@tuem7304]

Thanks!

[@cbking95]

When we run a 8" vise in our smaller machines we put an m0 to open the door before there machine goes home so the vise doesn't hit the door

[@carlitosway69691]

Very good thanks

[@capnthepeafarmer]

are there a recommended way cover upgrade for TM series mills?

[@chrisweigel5710]

Good information, but I thought this was going to be about using probe to square up the vice like I've seen seen done before at HAAS open house demos. Could you do a video of that?

[@chrisweigel5710]

In fact, a probe video in general would be awesome.

[@kesleycottrell1416]

It's a good idea to check the floor of the vise also.

[@CNCVMCSOLUTION]

Hello sir How to select fixture side which portion here and there

[@kingozymandias2988]

What are you thinking about a Hilma or a Allmatic vise?

[@saravanan.s3052]

Has it possible to square depth on on work piece in vmc machine

[@abdellahraiss4494]

very goood

[@GurdevSingh-cx6tv]

Thanks

[@KR-kh8sx]

Great video, great tip as always, I made it in 2 sweeps perfect and quick. Can you make a video about, how to Indicate and Calibrate the reninshaw probe. Thank you!

[@haasautomation]

Stay tuned for a series of probe videos! You should start seeing them as early as next week. For calibration, we have a great step-by-step procedure on the Haas DIY site. You can find it here: bit.ly/1RrtvBE.

[@michaeltatham4307]

I would be less concerned of the full Y-travel of the machine and the vise hitting, and only base the vise position on the part you're holding in the jaws. Thanks for the great videos. Michael

[@KAFA2020]

I am really happy for your awesome video. I am facing another problem. I am using mach3 for my CNC machine. But here in BD, we face load-shadding. Sometime I load a long time design but in the running time electricity cut off . I can not damage costly wood. Therefore, If I want to re-start the work from the same point where the machine stopped , What is the procedure for MAC3 system? Please could you help me? I will be grateful to you.

[@haasautomation]

With Mach3 you might have to create a new Safe Startup Line where things stopped in the program, and start from there (M06 T1: G54 G00 G90; G43 H01 Z3.). On a Haas control, we just turn on Setting 36 Program Restart, and press the green button. Check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4HPqoubjb6NeKc for more information. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@qwerty3663]

Can you suggest some particular rust preventative?

[@bschuebert33]

What camera do yall use for these videos?? so crisp

[@IgnacijeHorvat]

Great

[@greensheen8759]

Awesome video! This was really informative. What kind of rust protectant do you use?

[@haasautomation]

Samuel Morris - We use a Castrol product called Rustilo. Haas Automation

[@TylerHarney]

Is there a problem mounting the vise sideways?

[@EDesigns_FL]

I was surprised that you didn't mention locating blocks on the bottom of Kurt vises. They same a lot of time if they are properly installed.

[@johnr5545]

Thanks god bless

[@kchigley5309]

There is a more advanced way to ensure clearance and you'll need to get with your Haas tech to do it. You can limit the axis travels in the control. I haven't had to do this in quite some time, but if I recall, you basically limit the number of encoder pulses the axis will move away from the home position.

[@ninjaabcde]

sorry, I didn't understand. what did this clearance video have to do with Way covers?

[@ranggashiwakottama800]

What is the grit of the Aluminum Oxide Oil Stine's fine side?

[@wannabecarguy]

Hey Mark did you learn that from Chuck Miller?

[@MrCoffeypaul]

On the TM1P turn the vice 90 degrees?

[@pentachronic]

Do Haas CNC machines have soft stops (ie software defined limits) for the axes ? That would solve this issue if you didn’t need full travel.

[@haasautomation]

Gazza-usa - On Haas Machines with the Next Generation Control, we can set User Positions>User Travel Limits to limit the distance the table can move in some directions (away from the Home Switch). Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@bigrick7108]

Buy or make keys for the vise. The vise drops on within a couple thou every time. Or eyeball the t slot and vise slots and you can get it pretty close. When I was working in Tool & Die shops I always had at least 1 matched set and would disassemble them and lock up some of the parts when I wasn't using them so my employer or co-workers could not f them up.

[@mateuszsiwek108]

20 minutes is my personal record to set three vices along the axis with tolerance 0.01 mm between all of them:)

[@andresjim6490]

Thanks a lot! This material is only found in english

[@adamthefallnone1817]

Lots of good tips, but the indicating part, I'm curious (For example) touch indicator on both sides making sure you get a reading on both, pick one to be zero, jog to other side, say it climbs .0800, subtract .0400 from the high, and you should be at zero already? Should you not?

[@adamthefallnone1817]

You can also do the opposite and add to the low (again for example) that ".0400"

[@Pieh0]

4:38 It works 60% of the time, ALL THE TIME!

[@raider1628]

would like to see more 4-axis stuff. when is that coming?

[@haasautomation]

+raider Definitely! We are working on more now. In the meantime, check out our G107 video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHS7lXevpdhmjpI. Using G107 is one of the easiest ways to program simultaneous 4-axis moves. We’ve just added G254 Dynamic Work Offsets (DWO) as an option on mills leaving the factory. Working on that video now. With DWO, things will get even easier. More to come, stay tuned!

[@RozetRides]

raider could always throw In an m0 after a position move to hand operate a turn table. If you don’t have an actual 4th axis. Dial in a 90* angle block and mount a manual turn table to it. (Obviously this is dependent on the material and tools used. I would not run heavy cuts on aluminum or cut stainless that way.

[@219garry]

I put keys on the bottom of my vise that fit into the table T Slots. I made them with about .002 slop so I can tap it in perfect. The main reason I do this is I am really hogging something the most that vise will ever get thrown out is about .002.

[@AliSbahi]

4 axis . Specially about zero machine . If you can make video for us . That a good video by the way . Thanks

[@TypeUsername34]

Where can I get one of the stones??

[@bobannikoloski7941]

I hawe irritation on mu hands from the cooling....any tip of the day pleasee

[@zackthemachinist25]

Love the series. As an amateur at CNC maching, these videos are a lifesaver at work. I have a question though, where do you guys buy your indicators and machinist stones? My work says they'll buy me them if I can find ones I want but so far, I have no idea where to look or what to look for because I just started to learn to set up a 3 axis machine. Many thanks for these videos!

[@haasautomation]

Zachary Clink - Finding a local Industrial Supply house to work with is always a good idea. www.mscdirect.com, www.grainger.com and www.mcmaster.com are always good sources though. Amazon can be cheap, if you can find what you want. Do a quick search at MSC. Indicators can be found at the same places. I like a Brown & Sharpe Best Test .03” Indicator, with .0005” grads, or a nice Interapid .06 Range, .0005” grads for general use. For more on indicators, check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oafOgJJ_m5iIjMk Maybe we can get some other comments from folks, letting us know where they shop and what they use. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@evanorner]

I would get either mitituyo or starrett. I have a mitituyo test indicator and a starrett dial drop indicator and they are very nice. I just got mine from Amazon

[@timmallard5360]

What is the best Rust Preventor to use?

[@lnorman79]

+Tim Mallard i do a mixture of 1 part slideway lube, 2 parts lanolin, and 8 parts crc (Australian) if your in usa or the E.U i'm not sure what the equivalent is, maybe a wd40 type liquid rust preventative? this works a treat, especially if a vice or 4th axis type work fixture could be clamped on the bed indefinitely.

[@julianweiser9985]

Tip: Use a properly adjusted speed square to line up the vise before tightening the firs bolt. Saves a lot of time.

[@davidbutler9014]

When you stone your table do you use oil?

[@chrispile3878]

NO. You don't want oil on the stone.

[@OriginalJetForMe]

What do you use for rust prevention? What was in that spray bottle?

[@stevenguevara3242]

Rick wd40

[@shonaoneill5151]

DubyaD

[@oskar22fridolin17]

Way oil --- wd40 is no oil - its for cleaning

[@joshuat7171]

Oskar 22 Fridolin WD is water displacement. It is a water displacer, not a cleaner.

[@1111Mullen]

супер,спасибо)

[@thirteentwentyfeet]

Can you put a soft limit in the control?

[@haasautomation]

Mike - In the latest versions of software, on Next Gen Controls, we have a USER POSITIONS tab, under SETTINGS. From here we can set Max Travel Limits on XYZ axes, and MAX/MIN Travel Limits on our rotary axes. Similar functions are available on older models, but would require a Haas Service Tech to come out and make some careful Parameter changes. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@robpleasphoto]

What's curious to me is when I tighten my bolts, the rotation of the nut coming down onto the vise will move it. Then I have to indicate again, then tighten the bolts, then it moves, then I smack the vise with the hammer.... So how did you tighten those two bolts without that vise moving again?

[@markterryberry4477]

The first nut needs to be tight enough to keep the vise from moving. The vise should only move with a tap from a deadblow hammer, but tight enough not to move while the second nut is being tightened. Using a washer under the nut can also help keep the vise from moving as you tighten the nut as well.

[@frederf3227]

As a tip from someone that... saw someone else do it. Check clearance with a handle left on the vice. Assume it's going to happen because it will.

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

Very good suggestion

[@Warhamm3r262]

That's a problem at our shop. I actually made it a rule for the setup guys to put m00s at the beginning to check if you removed the handle. Saves our ass on our Umc

[@andyvan5692]

nice to know, but what happens if the bolts won't go in the holes/ slots of the vice??

[@markterryberry4477]

If we can not use the holes in the vise, we can use Toe Clamps along the edge of the vise to hold it in place. www.haascnc.com/haas-tooling/mill_workholding/workholding_accessor/04-0258.html

[@najibbijan8491]

In my company buy a new machine from haas..i like it....

[@DanielRLyon]

Can you guys make a video about how to indicate 2 vices together, side by side. So they both read the same on indicator.

[@madswinebbq]

Dan Hey Dan, I used to have to set up three vises and the trick was to install and indicate in your Center vise then clamp on a piece of bar stock where the bar stock hangs out on both ends. Then you place your vises on either side, or in your case just one side, and you close your vise on the bar stock and that will help line you up very close to the position that your Center or primary vise is in. Now you just bump your vise in to read at the same zero as your primary vise.

[@amberchester2244]

Use your brain

[@freezer4642]

Is it possible to mount and install a different machine operating system on these haas mills?

[@Iceberg86300]

Freezer to what end, like replacing the Haas control with a Siemens uber control?

[@freezer4642]

Iceberg86300 more like a Heidenhain TNC

[@RozetRides]

Can you turn that vice sideways in the machine and secure it? *mind blown!*

[@arigelavaibhav1615]

Sir how to set angle vise

[@Houcnc]

genius

[@danielemassabo1933]

hi! i've 2 question... what's the hardness/n°grain of the stone? What do you use for rust prevention?

[@haasautomation]

Daniele - I’ll use the fine side of a Norton 61463687570 Crystolon Machine Knife Stone, but I know a lot of people prefer the fine side of an Aluminum Oxide India Stone, at around 320-grit. - In this video I was using a Castrol Rustilo DW 90 HF, it used to be called Safecoat DW 90. This is what I have readily available, here at the factory. This is a thin Dewatering and Protection oil. I’ll use WD40 as well sometimes. - Mark, Haas Tip of the day

[@danielemassabo1933]

@@haasautomation Thank you for the response Mark! Finally what do you advice between these two stones? Aluminum Oxide India Stone www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BH7F1EE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A32RJSSCTUIP2F&psc=1 or Norton 61463687570 www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0086AF6FA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A32RJSSCTUIP2F&psc=1 for the safecoat oil i'll try to my oil reseller. Daniele.

[@TheWireEDM]

@@haasautomation Best would be to diamond grind that stone first, as you can hear the stone screek on the table on the video. That indicates that it will be scratching the table and that the stone is not flat. Check out ROBRENZ channel about precision ground flat stones, they do not remove anything but burrs and they do not scratch the table.

[@Houcnc]

@@danielemassabo1933 thank you for the links

[@shamuroy2330]

Fixtures setting how

[@ralfsautomotive]

Never Ever took one bolt out and never ever have taken more than a view seconds to square a vice. As a matter of fact when I set the Vive I center the slots by "FEEL"

[@oulinsaeteurn2139]

we need more machinist in America. good lesson

[@xdygmnyrdf]

There will be enough machinists in America, when employers make the salaries decent.

[@farshid.vahidpour]

👍helpful

[@Ham-jr2ve]

The vise I was using today at work was 45 thou out of square across the face and I didn’t know until the end of the day. No wonder my parts were coming out all messed up

[@327S106ixSPEED]

newbie tip of the day!

[@haasautomation]

+327S106ixSPEED Thanks for taking the time to check out our latest Haas Tip of the Day video. While we certainly enjoy filming more advanced tips, we aim to cater to beginner, intermediate and advanced CNC machinists. That being said, be sure you check out all of our Tip of the Days videos - bit.ly/Haas-Tip-of-the-Day - and feel free to suggest Haas Tip of the Day video topics that would be useful to you!

[@joeycusack6566]

+Haas Automation, Inc. can you show how to indicate the center of a bored hole on the mill?

[@RavenRockMachine]

What rust preventative are you using?

[@GC-hw9ju]

He is using Castrol Rustilo. However there are a few different variants of it. Not sure wich one.

[@haasautomation]

In this video I was using a Castrol Rustilo DW 90 HF, it used to be called Safecoat DW 90. This is what I have readily available, here at the factory. This is a thin Dewatering and Protection oil. I’ll use WD40 as well sometimes. A light spray of this oil keeps my vises, collets, and tools rust and corrosion free. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@pwest3732]

Thanks Mark, I recalled this video from my memory banks, needed just for this lil bit of info.

[@NickMcEntee]

how about a video on setting up dual vises and getting them aligned?

[@haasautomation]

In my old shop, we’d clamp a single ground bar in both vises, then square them up and clamp them down together. I’d say to key the vises, but I don’t like the way having keys sticking out forces me to lift the vise with outstretched arms (straining my back) or risk dragging the keys across the machine table, indicating it doesn’t take long. Without a bar I’ll set and clamp the left vise, then without moving the Y-Axis, I’ll jog the indicator over to the ‘pivot point’ corner of the second vise and start indicating from there. Hope this helps! Maybe others can chime in on what others are doing! -Mark, Haas Tip of the Day

[@stevenguevara3242]

Full Throttle Engineering fixture plate with some locating pins for multiple vise set ups

[@melgross]

You might need a 5” or a 4”. Sometimes there/s no way around it. I use a 4” on mine.