Hair removal- watch this video before you spend money on laser hair removal

[@loudsainte973]

Hi Doc i know this video is 3 yrs old so could you kindly update us re new market trends and what do you think of the gentlemax pro. Thanks!!

[@mheberling5939]

Yes, this is a great idea. Any updates? I am a gorilla and NEED hair removal.

[@noonseen2017]

This one is an updated Candela that he talked about but has Alex as well as ND:yag so it works for all skin types. I'm using Candela GentleLASE (the older version) and it's perfect!

[@justicehayes4715]

The technology is constantly advancing. We just got the Elume diode laser. Very excited about this one. You do use gel for extra protection and another cooling method. But is supposed to be less painful. I've used the Lumenis, the one he used in this video. It can still be painful for some clients. Definitely uncomfortable for others. Few people love this laser. The one we've had, has two hand pieces. The lrg one you saw and a smaller one for smaller areas. The small one uses the gel. It comes into full contact with the skin. Unlike the lrg hand piece you saw here. I don't believe there is such a laser hr removal process that is painless. Some people have a high pain tolerance others don't. I'm super sensitive, so I don't enjoy this process at all. Lol I hope our new machine is less painful for clients. (And for me.) Sometimes it's not so much that it's painful, it's just uncomfortable. I've have given clients amazing results. Even my clients with PCOS. Like he said, a lot goes into how well you will respond. Some people are really stubborn but will still see results. Just have to be patient. After your 6th treatment, you should definitely see good results tho. It's extremely rare that 6 treatments are ever enough. So know that you'll most likely need more. Also depending on the area you are treating. Brazilians take the longest. Stubborn ass hr in the inner/middle area. I do men and wmn. All body parts. Do your research, do a consultation, ask a lot of questions and always protect your skin after a treatment. Shave before your treatment, and do not have anything on your skin when you go in for a treatment. NO oils or lotion. Clean skin. It is a life changing procedure. Definitely worth the investment. Clinics and medical/med spas is where you want to go. Certified Advanced Aestheticians or nurses can preform this treatment. Do not go to anybody that has not been fully and properly trained/Certified to use a laser. All lasers are different. The tech should always be adjusting settings as you progress in your treatments. The hr changes therefore settings need to be adjusted accordingly. Skin color can vary in the treatment area, the tech should be adjusting to the different changes in the skin color. Very important. I encourage everybody to try it. It saved my skin and my quality of life. I have very sensitive skin. This was a life changer. Imagine not having to shave or even think about shaving. Or even maybe shaving once a month? Or less? I'm talking about a few random very fine hrs. Crazy right??

[@nawaflih]

Hey Dr. Davin, I am going to travel to see you for my acne scars. Even if it takes a million dollars. A million years. No matter what. I am putting my trust in you because I know you are compassionate and great at what you do. Have a great day!

[@drdavinlim]

Hey, lots of great guys all around the World.. esp. in the US, but thanks for the complements. Davin Lim

[@DFProductReviews9]

Dr Davin is really cool. I have been getting treatments from him for my face. Actually I need to go back as soon as I'm able to. Dr Davin is friendly, gives great advice, and takes care of your face. I wouldn't go to anyone else personally.

[@hot4fi]

Love this! I'm tired of seeing poorly researched videos on laser hair removal on KZbin and it's great to see one from a dermatologist. I'm going to make a comprehensive laser hair removal video in a few months, a few months after my last treatment and I hope you don't mind if I use you as a reference!

[@drdavinlim]

Please do... you have my permission. Thanks for the shout out, and the complements. Davin

[@youchooby]

aaaand that was a lie

[@MrMattsMedia]

This was the most useful videos on the topic of laser hair removal I’ve seen so far

[@drdavinlim]

Guide on a very common procedure that is not well explained. I go through the science and basics behind laser hair removal. Always choose a laser based on your skin type or ski colour, IMO the Diode lasers are great 'all round hair removal lasers'. Dr Davin Lim

[@wonder7r]

I have very fair skin, and had my legs, underarm and private area done with laser. I had 4 sessions and I am very happy with the results. No hair at all, I'm just worried because I've heard that if I get pregnant the hair will grow back really thick!

[@EarthAngel04]

Hey doc thank u for ur video. I’m getting alma laser harmony done n do u think it’s effective. It’s very painful if done on high intensity, plus my doctor says it’s done every 3weeks n I did yag laser every 3months for bikini arms n legs; every month for upper lips but the hair still growing though it has reduced n it’s a very painful one even with the cooling system n local anaesthesia

[@wormwoodbush3537]

Re Suf I realise your comment was posted a year ago, but I just wanted to ask, what colour hair do you have? I am like you, in that I have very fair skin, but the excess hair on my face (I have PCOS) is blonde (thank God!). So basically I'm wondering what colour was the hair you had treated and how successful was it on the lighter hair? I know the doc said it's not great on light coloured hair, just wondered what your experience was like. Thanks.

[@amitasharma7650]

im a dermatologist n i really loved this video. every detail is so genuine n true!

[@franciosemayhew4520]

Can you recommend someone in New Orleans? I've called most the places around me and they don't know what an 810 diode NM is. None of them have Lumenis. They mostly have Candela or Cutera. This video's a couple years old, is the Lumens 810 even still around?

[@viethealingacademybymimi3515]

It’s entertaining me to watch your video and get educated... you always happy and make people laugh. Thanks you 👍🏻🙏🌹

[@johnnyguo1263]

Hey Dr.Davin, It's so kindly of you to share your experience on hair removal. I love this video! Now when I explain to my client how diode laser is good at hair removal I ALWAYS advise them come to see this video : )

[@drdavinlim]

Cheers, Davin Lim

[@NaturallyNellzy]

This was a great video. Thank you!

[@shapeshifter7809]

Hi Dr Lim, can we please hear your thoughts on super hair removal (SHL)? And how its effectiveness compares to standard laser hair removal? Thanks in advance

[@lumgs2009]

Loved it! Good to see that I'm doing the right procedure. I'm in the 8th session and my armpits already look fantastic! Great video, doc! Cheers from Brazil.

[@MrsBazzy]

Legend! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, very informative 😊

[@drdavinlim]

you are welcome....dl

[@ft4598]

Thank you soooooo much. This video is the most helpful on KZbin so far.

[@Aiispuro]

Nothin wrong with ipl only reason people are against it is because the market is flooded with inexpensive systems an drs like this will talk down on them cause it’s bad business for them. Ipl works an will always work later diode will be old technology. Think about it people .

[@cindynicole3771]

Thank you so much Dr Davin this is so helpful!!

[@bankarmegha9894]

Hello Dr, I'm Indian, today I watched ur video before 1 hr of laser treatment, I loved ur video nd u also😍😍 Thnkuhhh😊😊

[@drdavinlim]

Welcome. Davin Lim

[@rose2dimples]

Great video! I used to live in WA and unfortunately IPL is only available. So glad I moved to Brisbane and got laser hair removal here. It is so much more effective and less painless.

[@drdavinlim]

Absolutely... Cheers, Davin Lim

[@FLNYgirl1980]

So glad I came across this old video. As a few year subscriber, Ive watched many of your vids and thank you!!! This was very emotional for me to watch, as my autistic son has alot of back hair and chest/arm hair. I know he has major insecurity about this and this really helped so much!! ❤️ from Florida 😎🌴

[@Strong1Faith]

Thank you so much for posting awesome videos.

[@peachis4669]

Hello doctor , can you do a video on keratosis pilaris, please

[@wildone3368]

liked in the first 2 mints because you seem true !

[@ladyazalea3710]

Very impormative! I have my laser hair removal done in the past for 5 sessions spaced every month but the tech is also doing a touch up after 2 weeks after every session so technically it’s 10 total because of touch ups.. my underarms until now is hairless and I did that procedure way back 2016. It’s really worth it...

[@nighathabib6007]

Thank you so much Dr David for your reply...

[@vutube379]

Loved your video. I got burned, not horribly but session was more painful and left hyperpigmentation, by a nurse at Dermatology office. If they are using the right settings as PROFESSIONALS why did I get burned?

[@Rache_777]

Great explanation !

[@drdavinlim]

Thank you kindly, Davin Lim, BRISBANE SKIN Australia.

[@saliha109]

Very good video!

[@stacyviers213]

I love your channel. Thanks for taking the time to give us the education and knowledge we need to help decide what treatments are best for us. You are the best! 💟

[@bukkyakinbolude1401]

Great video 👍 thank you

[@rrmm2644]

Hi doctor, please i need your help . Im student and canot afford laser sessions, i found on amazon professional laser device for about $ 3000 and it has three wavelenghts and 20000000 shots .can i buy it and learn how to make laser on my skin type without burning my self by depending on booklet guide of the device ?? Thanxs for great imformative video

[@susanabaltazar7826]

Finally I find a good informative video. Thanks

[@ninoescoreal5739]

been using IPL for almost two months now and it did wonders actually

[@annaKannibal]

Really?

[@MA-zg2pz]

@@annaKannibal don’t believe everything on the internet. Especially when the derm in this video says “ don’t go near it...it’s outdated” 1:06

[@BluuKiss]

@@MA-zg2pz This video is also on the Internet and cannot be fully trusted. Consult a dermatologist personally, not a video. IPL or laser works for different people

[@rachelw6822]

As an MTF I had 300+ hrs of electrolysis and another series of laser treatments for a year over my whole body - electrolysis was on the face and genitalia (for surgery). The laser treatments were quite different 16 years ago. Overall, my lack of hair continues quite well. Thanks for the video - I got reconnected to my hair removal, which seems far, far away now, hank goodness! It was a real trial. :-) Luv the videos . . . R

[@MySweetiii]

Rachel W omg how much did u pay for electrolysis? Here in Germany it is too expensive :(

[@strawberyyicecreamdream216]

@@MySweetiii At todays rates in the US that's somewhere between 25-35 thousand dollars.

[@Koorime18]

After years of shaving and/or waxing my body to remove hair, I really don't care how painful a laser could be; nothing compares to waxing. 😬

[@justicehayes4715]

Laser will be way better. Less painful. Great results.

[@korikoro1752]

Great clip. But I will have to disagree with your stand on IPL for hair removal. I’m a Fitzpatrick 3 south east Asian background. In 2001 I had 6 sessions of IPL to upper lip and my hair is reduced quite significantly until now. For my underarms I also had the same amount of sessions and hand on the Bible that I have never had a top up since then, 11 years ago, and I only have about 10 strands of hair that’s come up. So I think rather than make a blanket statement as there are too many possible variable results from person to person, there are billions of us so unless a treatment has been Performed on everyone globally it’s probably premature to throw certain treatments out the window completely. That’s just my personal results and thought to share it.

[@evayeo4932]

Most people will think that IPL and Laser is the same and misunderstood that after treatment, the hair will not grow permanently since people always says PERMANENT HAIR REMOVAL. With Dr’s explain of Laser, at least people will understand more about laser.

[@chrisucl]

Thanks for mentioning us Greeks! We have so much thick body hair especially the men. The struggle is real! What's your thought on ndyag vs alexandrite vs diode or combination lasers (alex/yag or Alex/yag/diode like the Soprano 3D)

[@rithikadithi1592]

🙏 u r info help me a lot

[@blingiy]

Sorry, but many of the things that Dr. Davin Lim has said in this video is wrong. I have been doing laser treatment for hair removal and other treatments for 11 years, and he is propagating many fallacies that are often spread in these types of videos. Which just goes to show you that even those that you think are tops in their field, are many times ignorant of the facts, or not up to date with the facts.

[@rubenboii2452]

Hi Dr. Lim I'm a guy and I've got a lot of (dark hair and I've got a light skin) hair so I suppose I'm hormonally driven. What do you mean with "new hair wil grow a lot quicker"? Could you make an estimate in my case? like how many times a year would I have to come back? 'Cause it is quite expensive so I'm thinking... is it worth it for me? (I know it's a hard question to answer but it also is a hard decision for me)

[@drdavinlim]

Impossible to answer. I just tell it like it is... Davin Lim

[@rahmaawaad2725]

Hey Dr. Davin, I have been using IPL to remove my hair but I am not done yet. Do you suggest me to stopp it and continue with laser or should I keep going with IPL??

[@dynamitethunderstruck8723]

I'm in the same situation...What're you planning on doing?

[@markcameroon6613]

thanks davin what do you thing about the diode laser ?

[@sidrahbaloch1100]

Can you please make a video comparing candela gentle max pro , soprano laser and trilogy ice laser hair removal machines Pleasee

[@ferielvi3142]

Hello doc please can u tell me which is the best laser between alexandrite, diode 808, soprano titanium for white sckin and dark hair

[@iloy1218]

Thanks so much I been scared to do mine Im doing mine tomorrow port Melbourne they use the laser not ipl I will come back in the comments to let u know how I went thanks Dr ❤️

[@wandychambers]

thanks for the detail information. would you be able to hold online tutorials?

[@drdavinlim]

Possibly, in the future, love my clinical work , esp acne scarring. Davin Lim

[@drjaleena9918]

What are the problems with IPL? Can u please elaborate. As it was the gold standard for years. Other systems too cause recurrence.

[@SingersHeart89]

Basically the light of IPL is scattered so it doesn't penetrate as deep and therefore takes way longer to weaken or get rid of the hair. The hair tends to grow back after a period of time. Also it's dangerous for darker skin. With normal laser, the light travels down the hair and destroys the root. Hair almost never comes back after you've had all your treatments and is safe for darker skins.

[@osirusj275]

@@SingersHeart89 so which the best device for home base use without pain and higher efficiency?

[@SleepSilkLuxe]

Is Diode laser not safe for darker skin? I came across multiple studies that it was and purchased a package today :(

[@yolandapadron1478]

how do you protect your eyes??!!! You are not wearing protective glasses when you apply the laser. The eyes have melanin too and are also a target for the laser!. BIG MISTAKE. The patient and the provider MUST wear protective glasses.

[@amnashakil93]

Wasted $1200 on IPL :( wish I saw this earlier

[@aysenurozkan178]

Amna Shakil same

[@aymanalij]

Thorough and concise! One question. What should the interval between treatments be for a supremely hairy male looking to get his aggressive back & shoulder hairs done?

[@justicehayes4715]

I start off with every 4 weeks. Depending on how you respond, after the first 3, 4 weeks, you can stretch them out 5,6 weeks. After that 8 weeks. In my experience, it depends how you respond. Also taking into consideration the growth patterns.

[@lailanierulida5015]

Doc davin, you are very honest with your job. So far i watched most of your videos. Dedicated and with a heart... God bless

[@drdavinlim]

Thanks. Davin Lim

[@Suzana1026]

Hey Dr. Davin Lim.. great informative video. I would like to know your thoughts on laser for the face, is it safe? Ty :)

[@drdavinlim]

Hair removal.. yes... cheers, DL

[@chidimasylvia7432]

New Subbie, like this and questions coming soon. Thanks for this video

[@paz12061]

Hi. I really enjoyed your videos. Do you know if there is any news models of diode laser in the market? Thanks :)

[@catarinaamaro5170]

Hello, Doctor thank you so much for this video! I have very fair skin and very dark and thick hair I used to do alexandrite laser ( I already did 3 sessions) but the clinic closed... and in my city, I only find diode laser ( which I tried yesterday) . Which one do you think is more effective?

[@justicehayes4715]

The diode is a great laser.

[@ehihumeme2010]

Hello doctor... I am dark skin and using a nad yag laser. I am on my fifth procedure of laser and I got a burn on my forth and fifth section and I had to use a numbing cream for the fifth section to reduce the pain. I am a bit worried about my 6th section. What can be done to prevent laser burn.

[@tana9688]

Have you seen results?

[@basketballskills8552]

Hi dr! Do you think dermapen is better than Infini w/ prp? Or the other way around for acne scars?

[@lexzenis2544]

The BRUCE LEE of Laser removal

[@anamikabharali678]

Please make a video on at home laser devices

[@mnanni5482]

Hi sir. I’m about the get laser hair removal on my beard area with a new technology called SWT (selected waveband technology). They use microlight and the machine is by Ellipse. I’m fair skinned with dark, thick hair. Is it good??

[@drdavinlim]

Use the wavelength as a guide not the device. Davin Lim. BRISBANE SKIN specialist.

[@tammyliberty9769]

My first laser treatment had me in tears. I go back first if next month for second treatment , may have to have a few shots!

[@californiadoll6273]

Yes mines has alwayssss been so painful to. Every single time

[@lolo2lolo491]

Hi Dr Davin! what a great video :((( i wish i had seen it 5-10 years ago :((( i wasted so much money on IPL like 10k us dollar trusting these liars that works at the salon and getting many side effects from it like chicken skin that i still suffer from :((( and now 10 years later getting back same hair thickness on my legs and stomach and back basically :((( all the suffering and the pain for nothing and now need to redo couple of new treatments all over again :(( What is the latest in the hair removal technology these days ? what's ur opinion regarding diod laser hair removal ? is there some new laser that doesn't hurt as the old IPL and still remove or reduce the hair permanently and effectively or is these new machine just some new marketing scams ?

[@manudavis2164]

Thanks fir sharing this information. It was very valuable.

[@drdavinlim]

Thanks for viewing. DL

[@damiesapphire2643]

My mom got no hair but me😑

[@theodorak.9002]

Is Zimmer safe for skin?

[@tiffany_ntnboston]

So I got blond hair then I can’t get laser hair removal?

[@easterneuropeaninmexico3554]

I am with pale skin and dark hairs and the diode laser did nothing. Just spent my money. Actually the hairs grew thicker and darker.

[@jackjackson9073]

that's a really good video, please i need your opinion about my case, i did minoxidil on my beard but i got some unwanted hair in my face, i'm wondering is the laser hair removal can halp in this, i asked a man he told me that laser hair removal in some cases can turn hairs terminal !

[@drdavinlim]

BuLLshi*, go for HR, ,,,,al good, DL

[@drsaurabhplasticsurgeon]

Hi, Just bought a diode 808 hair removal and tried it on myself (brown skin, upper limb), 40ms duration, 3 Hz frequency and 30 j/cm² power but didn't feel any pain or pricking sensation and no change in hair. Where was I wrong?

[@drdavinlim]

end point of peri follicular erythema reached????

[@drsaurabhplasticsurgeon]

Dr Davin Lim No perifollicular edema not reached in fact no change

[@drsaurabhplasticsurgeon]

Dr Davin Lim My frequency was 1 hz and Pulse duration 40 ms

[@idaswahn7727]

it is such a treat to look and listen to your videos. This one was awsome and very informative. See you next Friday evening. Good nite from Utah

[@vintulil]

Hi my name is lily. I am looking to buy a laser hair removal machine but I don’t know where to look and which one to buy. I am still lost no matter how many times I look over the video. Can you please point me in the right direction? Thank you

[@beelarehman5992]

Ok I've finally decided to go for the lightsheer. I'm addicted to your videos 😄

[@drdavinlim]

LOL- its the laser operator that also count. All the best, Dr Davin Lim

[@veslaser4305]

How can I buy this machines, been looking for it world wide. Please respond

[@techpro8391]

What about LightSheer Desire and ET?

[@drannamd]

Maybe your technician should not be pointing the laser so close to your eyes without eye protection.

[@mochaloca9]

What about lasers for removal of hyper pigmentation?

[@nataliakaika7285]

What is your opinion about deka lasers;

[@BJ-jd2ki]

hi Dr Davin I have 808 diod Laser Machine and it has three options I,II,III and they said its sutaibaee for dark skin as well I am giving treatment to my client but it doesn't effecting also seller is now saying that you need to leave the hair to treat the area but once you shave how will you leave some hairs on the skin pls I desperately needed your help here thanks in advance

[@mahdijabbari1647]

hello Dr. Davin Lim I'm a male 22 year-old. I have a thick dark black hair with white skin. I'd like to go to use removal hair laser. i want to give your some advice because I don't have enough confidence for my body i want to know is it possible for me to get remove my thick hair with removal hair laser? if yes, will it grow up again?

[@sunrise12398]

I really want this treatment for my face but scared of consequences after...i am the hairest person in the world..... But still I think I will go for upper lips hate greeting hair after a week on my upper lips... I mean I know I have hair all over my face I am used to it at least when I have brows and upper lips done I feel like clean and feel like a other women around

[@julzieee7134]

I think i have been burn by my esthetician with vectus laser hair removal she told me it was a normal reaction !! The day after my first laser treatment i got alot of red bumps big red swollen bumps and they itch they looks like acnee !! Wish i could send you a photo so you can tell me if it is normal ! They have a skin probe to measure your skin tone my legs were a 19 and arms 15 i had no reactions with my arms only my leg help please i am suppose to go do brazilian and armpit but i am scared that i will have the same reaction ?!? Thanks

[@drdavinlim]

Normal, if in doubt see a dermatologist in person. This reaction should be explained by your dermatologist as it is universal . Davin Lim BRISBANE SKIN specialist.

[@julzieee7134]

Dr Davin Lim thanks

[@rinimeador873]

Hi Dr. Lim, Im thinking about opening a small spa and I am trying to educate myself on laser hair removal, the Laser you mention Syneron, Candela ect are so expensive. I live in the US and would like to buy from a Company in Beijing they are less expensive then the brands you mentioned. What are your thoughts on oversea buying?

[@lianmalynn3922]

Sh*t!! I wish I saw this before I got IPL!! :( Ugh people can be so sneaky with the info they give you. Thanks so much for the video! 🙏

[@Ssookawai]

Don't rush into such conclusions... I've started IPL on my neck area and I was so satisfied with the results that I did my whole back! It might work for you.

[@osirusj275]

Is there a home base device thats more efficient n painless than ipl?

[@radikal_mana]

I am currently an Esthetician, and planning on going to NLI to get certified to do lasers and I have been searching for actual informative videos and just found your page! So excited to see what I can learn before actually going!

[@justicehayes4715]

Excited for you!! It's a great field to go into. You'll be changing lives!!

[@NikiTass15]

Is the lightsheer still your favourite machine for LHR over candela and cynosure ?

[@zahraadeel2728]

Hey dr. Love your videos.im getting laser done on my face,my doctor uses candela gentle max pro but i dont shave my face prior to laser, so i had 5 sessions uptil now but i didnt notice any reduction in my hair, he uses two wave lengths 1064 nm and 755nm.i have medium complexion not very dark not very fair.please help me.what should be the interval between the sessions?

[@mahekpatel4599]

Hi Doc, Can you please give more info about triton fusion by inmode. Is it better than candela gentlemax pro for Indian ethnicity

[@imadamnoor3356]

Ipl hair removal is bad choice?

[@muhammadsaid4342]

Hello Dr Davin, I have thick black hairs what kind of machine will be best for me?? I also did my treatment through IPL but it didn’t work. Can you suggest me a best laser machine?

[@AshnaAMuhammed]

Hii .. i just starred using Differin gel .. and i am the IPL hair removal user (philips lumea) and i read about it most dermatologist recommended that avoid Differin (or any type of retinoids ) 5-7 days before treatment and 3 days after treatment , so if i avoid Differin for about 10 days !! What happened my skin won’t get any benefits from it?? Please answer

[@Naiaakash]

You stole the intro video from a famous KZbin channel, they can easily remove your video + strike

[@vinanoir]

im in your skin color range..can the 810 diode laser be used on my face? i want to ask the place i go to if they have it...so far i have done 3 or 4 sessions and they are using a yag laser for me...im seeing good results but it does hurt...if the 810 diode laser is able to work on my face i really want to try that!

[@TinyLittleSilver]

JEEBERS. Out of curiosity, I was wondering where in Australia you were. Did NOT expect your clinic to be maybe 10 minutes from me. Maybe I should change to your clinic.

[@victorgomes7585]

What's your opinion on Fotona Pro machine for hair laser removal? Great video. Thank you. Are you in Melb?

[@lizgaby9761]

F&$^/ I have a lot of hair, and they grow our so quickly is disturbing. I can shave today and already start coming out on day 2 and by day 3 you can se the top. And this is why I barely shave it's a damn waste of my time. I will surely try the laser, I know it will take quite a lot of sessions but that's better than nothing I don't have pcos though I probably spelled that wrong. Thanks for the info.

[@alexiaalexandrovna3908]

I wish you would also mention how often to do the treatments (what period of waiting between the treatments) ?

[@justicehayes4715]

You can start off with every 4 weeks, then stretch that out 5,6, to 8 weeks as you progress.

[@ArtistTavia]

Thank you Doctor! My esthetician offers a laser package extremely more affordable than my dermatologist. Is the XEO laser more effective than a YAG laser on brown skin? Thank you 🙏🏽

[@aseragalaly2540]

Any updates on this topic ?

[@oooohmysoooosexy]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@gialucci]

whats the best place to shop for a machine like the 810 diode or cryogen laser>? Also which one is better for adjusting to different skin/ hair types?

[@purushottamdhital8826]

Hey dr Davin, If we would like to visit to ur clinic for treatment n suggestion...what’s the site to contact...or address