Explaining the differences between current relays and potential relays and their role in starting compressors.
Пікірлер: 188
@stevemccord82336 жыл бұрын
The best explanation of these two relays. I’ve worked in the field for forty years and anyone who works in the hvacr industry needs to understand this concept. Watching this video is one of the best ways to learn current vs. potential starts. This guy did an outstanding job. Thank God for KZbin.
@jollyscaria19222 ай бұрын
0l hvac potential realy curent rely line1 linted s.c coil einzing starting point conted enizing out startung point comprssl1 .lined give ssme line coil m..çr ..ruing point c line 2 comin ponited
@jamesurquhart54105 жыл бұрын
The combination of the Schematic along with the bench explanation is an absolute key to understanding the operation. Most of us who have gotten into these trades do so for several reasons. One of them being the sit in class and learn through books without practical application is enough to bore us stiff. Again this combination is critical to understanding. Well done!
@tmst21993 жыл бұрын
If you think you're sitting in class learning boring stuff, you're not really learning anything.
@robertgaitskell72125 жыл бұрын
Your explanation was brilliant, I am a tradesman of 36 years I also us these compressor kits, i have used them for the last 15years, I believe in them so much for the last 10 years this is all I use, but I use 2in 1s I prefer to use the correct rated overload, that’s just my preference. I know I have stopped many unnecessary compressor replacements. 6mths ago I found a 2 in 1 that had failed it had been there for 12 years the compressor was 18yrs old the original relay and capacitor lasted 6years, I fitted another 2 in 1 and it is still going.Anyone who thinks these kits burn compressors out hasn’t given them a chance. Sure some fail but this is only because the compressor was damaged and was going to fail anyway. Well done with you’re video.
@stansmith4395 жыл бұрын
This is the best video I've ever seen on explaining the differences in these relays and how they work. Great Job! You are appreciated sir.
@jerrymiller475410 ай бұрын
One of the best videos for start relays, etc on refrigerant compressor!
@ebrahimsarrami13739 күн бұрын
Very expert and clever teacher.Thank you Sir.
@MohamedUAE24 күн бұрын
When I looked at the line from C to R and from C to S, I started laughing! I guess people can tell from the line whether you're right or left handed :).. well done over all.. I loved the video man.
@spelunkerd3 жыл бұрын
After years of searching, i finally found your video, explaining something I always wondered about. If you don't know how these little things work, you have no hope of understanding a schematic wiring diagram.
@mijodo20085 жыл бұрын
Simply one of the best explanations of this subject on the net. Mate, your blood is worth bottling. Cheers From Michael. Australia
@francoisguyot97705 жыл бұрын
Every clear and detailed explanation of an essential component of refrigeration systems that makes troubleshooting easier to perform. Thanks! Well done.
@vernroach34136 жыл бұрын
As often as I have wanted to, I have never taken these relays apart since I knew what was going on in them, but this video is excellent at showing exactly how they work and I will use this technique since I soon, will be instructing again...I'd like to put one in every students hands for weeks, have them know them inside and out, like they make you take your rifles apart, again and again in the Army, until your know them personally...My thanks to the gent that made this video...Excellent work my friend.
@cdrive57573 жыл бұрын
SGT Gavens was satisfied only after we could strip and reassemble a Garand in the dark! ;-)
@andrewvickery18986 жыл бұрын
Very informative and educational. I deal only with current relay systems at work and now have to fix the AC unit on my motorhome that is a potential system and was totally lost. Thank you so much for the video as I can now confidently diagnose the problem.
@sonyxperiathree45549 ай бұрын
First good video on the explanation of how to repair a non starting compressor. If you know how something is designed you can figure out your own troubleshooting approach and why it failed . Most of the people creating these types of how to videos don't have a clue as to how these systems work. They only tell how to throw on a Support 3 in 1 as a repair solution. After seeing this video I see why the Supco could damage a compressor. BTW the start capacitor is there to prevent the premature burning of the relay contacts (like the condenser used in old distributor/points automotive ignition systems) while the run capacitor is for power factor correction. This why the smaller HP compressor units don't have a start capacitor while larger (higher current compressors) do employ them as contact burning is more acute. Thanks for the great explanation of compressor starting circuits.
@NordicDan4 жыл бұрын
I like your explanation of the hard start kit. In a pinch I had to settle for a 2-wire since it was roasting outside and it was all I could get locally when my compressor began having trouble starting. I plan to change it out for a 5-2-1 as soon as I can to hopefully last until I change out the whole system.
@DOWNUNDER.2 жыл бұрын
Thanks ! did a potential start relay today, got the terminals mussed up, got it running. But it's nice to see I eventually got it right
@gregrichard91925 жыл бұрын
Great video Sir. Very informative. "The reason it's humming it's not because it do not know the words, but it's trying to start". 😀
@robertstugard14335 жыл бұрын
I laughed out loud when he said this. Great job Halligan142!
@kaundabwalya77762 ай бұрын
Indeed this the best❤ video distinguishing between the two relays.. I agree with someone in the comment section.. Thanks 4 putting in the great effort Man🎉
@grahamswain735610 ай бұрын
A wonderful video ,can impressed see again .So interesting much appreciated many thanks .
@sayedhussain85036 жыл бұрын
Great video, the gentlemen knows what's he talking out, he has a good experience .
@knewland54552 жыл бұрын
great explanation, I'm not in the field however am trouble shooting my u-line fridge. i understood your presentation completely. (Very Much Appreciated
@raindropsrising76623 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Appreciate you putting everything together here. Watching for the 5th time and it's clear and AWESOME for a novice like me.
@yeomansbob5 жыл бұрын
Great video. Covered everything needed but in an understandable way. Good info delivery ability. Keep it real!
@chrisshea42694 жыл бұрын
Great video for me, who was trying to get some more context on how all these parts work for a DIY fridge repair. Installed a 3n1, but ultimately the compressor seized again ultimately the thermal fuse did not stop power the circuit breaker did.
@wdennis86 жыл бұрын
Your video is fantastic. Your explanation is top notch. Thanks dude
@kenzpenz7 жыл бұрын
Great video. I will never replace or work on my compressor, but this sure was interesting. Yes I watched it all the way through and no fast forwarding. I always wondered what makes things work and this video was very informative. Thanks for sharing...Ken
@v63vav4 жыл бұрын
Thank you from Geosolar, Bulgaria!!! Very good explanation!
@brownzimba47452 жыл бұрын
wow the best teacher i hv never had
@kurtbjohnsoninc3 жыл бұрын
BEST EXPLANATION TO NOVICE - thank you
@poolmotorrepairguyFL2 жыл бұрын
The Florida pool pump motor bearing repair guy When Service Calls Longwood approved ! that was good info
@samsen2016 жыл бұрын
Very educational. Thanks for explaining so well and clear. Well done job.
@scottk06233 жыл бұрын
I use them also, I have had good luck with the 3 in1 lasting. I try to find the cause of the original failure,most times it’s either a unit on its last leg or the condenser is PLUGGED or fan bad. I have no problem leaving it on the unit. Most customers don’t want to pay for the 2nd call to put OEM parts on a white elephant anyway. Great video thanks.
@CSSIandAssociate7 жыл бұрын
Very good explanation. In addition thanks for pointing out the contacts. Also, yes change everything. If you were doing it yourself you would. Done, piece of mind. No worries for a long time. In my home and on the vehicles. In the military we had something called. Preventative Maintenance Inspection Schedule. I think I retired in 2008 getting rusty on the acronyms. However if you schedule certain things they are taken care of. I do everything in the summer when it is easy. I now have a heated insulated garage which helps. Yet, summer time is best to tackle these items. Currently with the Hurricane I have just ordered the Transfer switch to the main breaker of the house so the generator can be hooked up just in case. After the fact kind of late.... Keep up the good vids. Very informative.
@jamesr.dubose64695 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. Thanks so much of an excellent presentation.
@waynepowell5674 жыл бұрын
Excellent break down . One of the best that I have seen. You do a great job of presenting this as well. Really appreciate your video. Thanks again. Great stuff.Covering a subject that most do not and seems an important part of the industry.
@jaimelopez74865 жыл бұрын
Excellent explanation, clear, concise and precise, appreciated it very much.
@naeemmaqbool93115 жыл бұрын
Very nice explanation of two relays used in a copressor
@romeogad6680 Жыл бұрын
very well explained, that helped me a lot thank you
@richardhowlin60482 жыл бұрын
Excellent explanation 👌 sometimes someone can just explain something and it just clicks
@bfc9198 ай бұрын
Excellent video, thanks!
@MrLaffertyheating7 жыл бұрын
Awesome video!! Look forward to the schematic series!! Thank u!
@hbradar16 жыл бұрын
On a PSC MOTORS the start winding is in circuit all the time. Induction motor they drop out.
@howardostfeld38026 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation for the "lay" person. May I suggest that you add a PTC relay in series to the start winding in your very first diagram? Otherwise, the relay through the run winding will always keep the start winding in the circuit. Also, may I suggest you change 120V to 240V? Most heat pumps and condensing units use 240VRMS single phase. Keep up the good work when you have time and if you need help with future presentations that get further into it, let me know. I have oscilloscopes and a lot of instrumentation equipment.
@Do_the_Dishes4 жыл бұрын
Howard Ostfeld, You seem like the person to answer a question since you picked up on that fact. If I may ask. Concerning these “Hard Start Kits”. I know that the start capacitor and start windings are there to shift the phase in order to get rotation going. Are the kits simply there to increase the capacitance? If so, why doesn’t the manufacture simply use a higher rating capacitor? Can these start kits create too much starting torque or cause other problems elsewhere? Thank you in advance.
@howardostfeld38024 жыл бұрын
@@Do_the_Dishes Hello, I just saw your question. I want to give you an accurate and quantitative answer. It can get quite mathematical involving capacitive reactance and inductive reactance involving phase angles. These involve vectors. Let me know how far into it you want to go. The general answer to your question is that the combined inductance and capacitance has to be matched to the operating characteristics of the motor in the compressor to produce enough phase shift between the voltage and current for the motor to start turning. A simplistic analogy is, if you are not in the right gear for the engine speed for a manual transmission the car will not run smoothly. Thanks. Hope you reply.
@rj.parker2 жыл бұрын
There are two scenarios described in the video. The FIRST is a fractional hp 115vac motor. In most cases these are called single phase induction motors, either cap start or cap run. The usual wiring has their cap in series with a switch or current relay. The SECOND scenario are larger several hp single phase compressors, typically 240vac 1-5 ton systems. These are PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) Motors. On those, a capacitor is "Permanently" in series with the start winding. It is called a Run Cap and allows continuous start winding current. The amount of current is limited by the uf size of the Run cap. For a larger compressor, the Run Cap may be sized at 30-80 uf. A "hard start" kit for a typical single phase PSC motor adds another bigger cap in parallel to the Run cap "Temporarily" for more start winding current. The hard start cap, often around ~300uf, is switched out by a potential relay as soon as the motor comes up in speed. However in a PSC motor, the Permanent Split (Run) Capacitor stays in the circuit. Finally most PSC compressors in the last 25 years are scrolls which usually don't need extra hard start kits and use only their Run caps to allow current to their start windings.
@rj.parker7 жыл бұрын
Another option for single phase Copeland compressors is *Secure Start* by *Emerson* (actually a rebrand of an Australian company). It provides an electronic soft start capability to ensure zero crossing and low amperage startups. The Australian company is *Hyper Engineering* and the same single phase product is called *Sure* *Start* . They also sell a three phase soft start. Of course the new "inverter" based systems also are soft start inherently and are actually three phase vfd driven at the compressor even when sourced by single phase.
@glasser28195 жыл бұрын
Txs for this info. "soft-starters" are great to prevent destructive in-rush and preserve bearings on all electric motors greater than 1/2 Hp.
@nickush75123 жыл бұрын
Superb Dude, many thanks.
@stormfully2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I've learned everything I needed to know :)
@charleseggers617611 ай бұрын
Thanks. Very informative 👍
@juliand27093 жыл бұрын
great explanation...
@xraybravo71804 жыл бұрын
Awesome explanation and great speech skills
@Gary-ts6dh4 жыл бұрын
9:06 - The click you hear might be the Choral "conductor" tapping his baton on the music stand indicating he wants the compressor to stop humming that (60Hz) pitch. 13:43 - a little dot of silver solder on each of those contact points, and you're back up and running.
@jeremysolis31853 жыл бұрын
Excellent excellent video 👍🏼 Thank you 🙏
@andrewcummings2675 жыл бұрын
REALLY ENJOY YOUR Experience and expression this video has been very interesting on those components hope to work with you one day
Great video. Thanks. I was wondering if I could just measure voltage drop across hard start relay at start up, expecting maybe just a few volts until compressor gets running. One thing that did occur to me was to disconnect fan for compressor start up test so I can better hear compressor start or not. Of course not leaving fan off for more than short test.
@diazcuba3 жыл бұрын
Hi, This is a great explanation of how a compressor winding is put together, my problem is that I have only two wires going to the connector and only on two of the pins of the compressor. I'm not getting any continuity on the one pin where there's no wire going to it. My questions are: Are all pins supposed to have continuity between each other, the one that has no wires has no continuity? If there is no wire going to the right pin on the connector of the compressor, does it still need to have continuity? I need to know if my compressor is bad.
@Lvaman6 жыл бұрын
Excellent, thanks for the great clear explanation of how things work. My fridge works now! What was wrong? It has a PTC instead of the relay. It's a larger sized Danby. The PTC disc had a small piece broken off one side and a bit of corrosion and pitting. I sanded it all off, cleaned it up and wondered if it would still work. It did! So far so good. I'm still waiting for it to complete it's first cycle. Is there a polarity for the PTC? I noticed that one side is different but no markings.
@Jimmyzb365 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the Theory!!!!!!!
@picwick57 Жыл бұрын
Installed an RCO410 last year worked great until recently after 2 days without power. would not start compressor for fridge to get up & running once power came back on. I ordered another one hopefully it solves the issue.
@stanwei1576 жыл бұрын
I think you should explain how alternating current start capacitors' phase shift and motor's "BACK EMF" voltage created to drop (open) the starting circuit relay out as soon as the motor is running.
@rickstadel52854 жыл бұрын
I'm not so sure: If the viewer needs that explained, they're probably missing some needed background in electrical theory, without which 'phase shift' and 'back EMF' might only confuse them further.
@Andrew-xs4qy5 жыл бұрын
appreciate the video
@user-po2rt4se6s2 жыл бұрын
Great work thanks 🙏 a lot
@charanjitjammu6932 жыл бұрын
Very nice sir.
@chamindapeiris8976 жыл бұрын
Thanks from Sri Lanka
@marshakelvins51034 жыл бұрын
that was very helpful
@marklennon15804 жыл бұрын
excellent training video!!!
@maar57253 жыл бұрын
' شكراِ لّك ؛ Thanks ; It's very informative .
@guymcphee25185 жыл бұрын
good details and well explained.
@Sor917854 жыл бұрын
Those start winding's look like they are getting amps regardless of that current relay being open or closed in your diagram. The only thing I can think is that it wont overheat because the electricity will take the path of least resistance through the run winding's. I'm in school right now and our teacher is having us connect a pictorial diagram together with a current relay and overload- the relay has N.C contacts, and so far it seems like to me like L1 should feed power to the current relay first and then onto the motor so it can actually isolate the start winding when that switch opens from the electromagnetism. Would love to hear your thoughts, friend.
@DA-lq9kpАй бұрын
You mention a PTC (positive temperature relay). If the PCT stops the flow of current by temperature does it not cutback in when it cools down and then cycles the whole time the compressor is in use? I can now answer my question: The Standard PTC relay device has a PTC chip in series with the start winding. PTC or Positive Temperature Coefficient devices when cold, have a very low resistance, but when heated their resistance will go very high, a thousand times higher than when there cold. So when the compressor is ready to start, the PTC relay must be cold .so when power is sent to the compressor the power goes directly to the run winding and also to the start winding via the PTC device. Within a second or so of the compressor starting the power to the start winding is virtually cut out due to the PTC device rapidly being heated by the power drawn by the start winding. The power to the start winding is now virtually nothing ,simply a small current to keep the PTC device warm and the start winding out of circuit while the compressor is running. When the compressor cuts out the PTC cools down and it’s resistance drops to around 25ohms ready to restart. The PTC requires about 5 minutes to fully cool down so that it’s resistance is low enough to energise the start winding due to cooling demand.
@usarefurb22207 жыл бұрын
Good job
@evelyn3673 жыл бұрын
nice one buddy it been said previously great vid great explanation
@nogeek436 жыл бұрын
Good information and well done. Now I can talk more intelligently with my HVAC repair man.
@edmundochaparro-barriguete12153 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. A little observation; a pronunciation between Star or stock I was confused. Another issue; if my refrigerator does not have a visible capacitor, together with the relay, where is it located?
@yozy49966 жыл бұрын
Great job explaining...
@footprintsinconc5 жыл бұрын
2yrs ago, the 45/7.5 capacitor died, and now the fan side of the 45/7.5 capacitor died 1 week ago and i found the compressor humming (wasn't cooling house down). it must have been humming for 5hrs or so before i realized the house was not cooling down. i bought a new 45/7.5 dual run capacitor, and i also bought a 5-2-1 brand (csru2 model) and added it to my carrier 4Ton ac that is 6yrs old. i added it because from what i have read it helps start the compressor start faster and thus helps with its life....questions: 1) is it true that it helps with compressor life? should i have added this? 2) you said that once a capacitor goes out, we should replace the relay...which capacitor are you talking about, the 45/7.5 dual run capacitor or the 5-2-1 added capacitor? 3) how do i know looking at the unit what size my dual run capacitor should be...is there a sticker on the body of the unit that should say so (can't find that info on the my stickers)?
@abujamie37634 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thank you very much.
@naseemqureshi19665 жыл бұрын
Very well explained
@Reftravun7 жыл бұрын
Very informative, thanks for posting it.
@softwarephil17096 жыл бұрын
Great explanation!
@jamesleyes5905 жыл бұрын
Thanks for best explanation god bless
@isobar58573 жыл бұрын
So helpful...thank you.
@pavankumar-zm8jm5 жыл бұрын
Good explanation man. I wonder that i watched a complete 27;16 min video... Where are you working man.. Ni
@tenovertwelve5 жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks for making it.
@dannyjeong81114 жыл бұрын
GOOD JOB
@billi16437 жыл бұрын
Good Video, and thanks for not trying to sell me a zoom lock!
@Halligan1427 жыл бұрын
I don't and probably never will trust those things no matter what anyone says. Hell I still don't trust PEX and propress
@johnmgriffin30602 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir!!!
@scottlytton53282 жыл бұрын
Oh my gosh, this is so far above my head and my knowledge of electricity I'm almost ashamed to ask my question but since you do display that knowledge it makes me think you should be the first one I ask. So you see my deep freezer broke down and another u tuber helped me install a 3 n 1 supro relay (at least I think that was the brand name) Anyway today I was playing with my new laser light remote thermometer and noticed my compressor stays at about 140° all day. So I go poking around the web and some Facebook groups and I was asked if my ( relay was "kicking down" I asked what the heck does that mean and another poster said I should have a certain amt of amps when it starts and that those amps should decrease once it does start and run. I asked for some more guidance and nobody ever answered so I'm guessing they didn't want to deal with my ignorance. So if you would also not want to deal with someone who don't fully grasp electricity matters then please don't feel obligated to help. I totally understand. Question (s) 1. How many amps should I get in start mode and in run mode 2. How would I even test to find that out. (I never hear the compressor stop at all) and finally 3. Is 140° to much heat for the compressor to generate? The rating marked on my 3 n 1 relay is (I believe 2w-4w ) if that doesn't seem right I would be willing to pull it out to make sure. Thanks for any info.
@veganath4 жыл бұрын
*"It doesn''t hum because it forgot the words"* ....LMAO Thanks
@renantejosesiguiente14425 жыл бұрын
thank you for the imformation, its a great help..
@beaverman0114 жыл бұрын
Great Video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, learned a lot. Just had one comment. All these burned contacts which can lead to major failures, I wonder why there's no component to help absorb that electrical arc. All the old automobiles with points and condenser ignition used the condenser to protect the points from burning. You would think they could incorporate a condenser of some sort into the system. Just a thought, I'm no engineer. Thanks again
@n.mcneil40662 жыл бұрын
Actually the automotive condenser is a capacitor. In the small fridge current relay the capacitor is in parallel to the contacts in the same way as the condenser (capacitor) is in parallel with the contact points of the ignition,
@mojetrouba4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this really helpful video. I’m a bit confused on the capacitor wiring. It seems to me, when the starting relay closes, it takes the start capacitor out of the circuit (it is shorted out) so how is that capacitor helping to start the motor? And, if true, once the relay drops out, it looks like the capacitor is in series with the start winding which I think is more like a run capacitor. But then it should be in the Run leg???
@dantronics16824 жыл бұрын
the cap is to stop arcing when the starter switch opens
@Do_the_Dishes4 жыл бұрын
Dadla Ponizil , I was reading the comments to see if anyone else picked up on that. The start capacitor should be in series with the switch; only the run capacitor would parallel it so his print is wrong. In addition, the cap is not to stop arcing in this case. It is to shift the phase in order to start the rotation going.
@rj.parker2 жыл бұрын
There are two scenarios described in the video. The FIRST is a fractional hp 115vac motor. In most cases these are called single phase induction motors, either cap start or cap run. The usual wiring has their cap in series with a switch or current relay. The SECOND scenario are larger several hp single phase compressors, typically 240vac 1-5 ton systems. These are PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) Motors. On those, a capacitor is "Permanently" in series with the start winding. It is called a Run Cap and allows continuous start winding current. The amount of current is limited by the uf size of the Run cap. For a larger compressor, the Run Cap may be sized at 30-80 uf. A "hard start" kit for a typical single phase PSC motor adds another bigger cap in parallel to the Run cap "Temporarily" for more start winding current. The hard start cap, often around ~300uf, is switched out by a potential relay as soon as the motor comes up in speed. However in a PSC motor, the Permanent Split (Run) Capacitor stays in the circuit. Finally most PSC compressors in the last 25 years are scrolls which usually don't need extra hard start kits and use only their Run caps to allow current to their start windings.
@somkiattjmanmark495 жыл бұрын
Awesome vdo
@DW-vl2wi5 жыл бұрын
I think you just saved me a ton of headache.
@robinfrancis789 Жыл бұрын
Good video....however....at around 6:53, you say the current relay opens and the start winding drops out.....but the capacitor ( which unless I missed it) you do not say if its a run cap or start cap, is providing a circuit by passing the relay whether its open or closed....or certainly the way its drawn.....I'm probably wrong....but your SC doesn't look like its in the wrong place....surely the SC must have to be in series with the relay switch....or how else will you remove if from the circuit after starting?.....can you please clarify? thanks 🙂
@ncooty Жыл бұрын
@19:15: You misspoke, right? You meant the back EMF opens the potential relay and kicks out the start CAPACITOR, not the start WINDING, right? The start winding still has a current route via the run capacitor, such that the start winding is energized as long as the circuit is energized and the run capacitor works, right?
@billhill8394 жыл бұрын
Great job, thanks!
@axemanjoe2945 Жыл бұрын
Is it possible for the potential relay to test good but actually be bad as well as start and run capacitors?