Ham Radio: Direct To Full Licence - A Good Idea?

[@DrHWO]

One thing to remember when considering the syllabus for the full licence is that the rough content has to be agreed internationally for the HAREC privileges to be granted. A lot of folks make the argument that they don't want to take the lid off their rig and plumb in an external clock reference. Their interest is in operating. No problem with that - BUT it is likely to cause a withdrawal of reciprocal arrangements. I see no problem with a straight to full option, but great care has to be taken over the syllabus to cover all necessary bases from Foundation and Intermediate as well as the more technical Full to maintain one of the significant benefits of full licence - to be able to operate abroad.

[@wisteela]

Now I'm wondering what an external clock reference does. 🙂

[@g0fvt]

@@wisteela most of us will never need one, but I do have a rubidium standard...

[@Jonnyweareten]

A Direct To Full Licence would be a very good idea specially for people who already have knowledge of electronics and radios. I was put off getting my full license because I would have to take the foundation and intermediate exams first which is a waste of time and money if I can just pass the full exam.

[@martindrury9740]

I enjoyed doing the foundation course and exam. I've looked at the next level and now will consider going to full if it is made available. 73 Tim.

[@timg5tm941]

It’s good to have a step by step route too thanks Martin 73

[@alzeNL]

I cant change the past, but I'm glad to have gone the M7, 2E route. Personally it suited my level of learning, enjoyment of the hobby and wanting to give something back to it. I think you put it very well, as in that those who have a background and the exam to a full licence is ratifying their knowledge, then that is a good thing. My concern would be over a long term the quality and prestige of the RSGB full Licence will deminish, not purpursfully but because people have found a quicker way to get to that level of knowledge without necessiarly aquiring the knowledge and wisdom operating at Foundation and Intermediate brings.

[@rab1978uk]

I’ve been an M6 call sign for about 7/8 years or so now. What put me off going for the intermediate (I’ve bought the book at least) was my local radio club making me turn up every Tuesday night, when I’m ready to go to bed (I work early shift) and all the old boys there would have meetings and arguments over trivial things and make everything seem boring. Rarely got my hands on a radio or built an antenna. One of the other things that has put me off going further is all the electronics. If one of my expensive radios goes wrong, I’m sending it off to an expert, I’m not reaching for my soldering iron! I’m interested in amateur radio operations, not electronics.

[@Jim_2E0HKM]

Exactly my point, the whole set up is about 20 years out of date. It's all set up for people with electronics knowledge & interests. Radio knowledge or use is a distance 2nd.

[@timg5tm941]

You can to a good degree avoid the electronics part or at least choose selectively and then max out on other parts of the syllabus .. got me and many others to full licence

[@Jim_2E0HKM]

@@timg5tm941 your right Tim, I can get through online mocks full licence tests I've tried that way, my point is the present system not just the exams puts off people with a passion for communications over those with an interest in electronics. This is why even in pre lockdown times you can go on 40 or 80m any day and hear & see on the cluster loads of special activations in Italy, Spain, Germany, Poland such as sota, FF, castles, lighthouses or just general /p/m activities while out users are all in sheds polishing vintage electronics between various old boy nets. I'm not criticising them, it's what they choose to do and have always done. But is it good for the hobby?

[@davidhamilton4978]

This is a change I would welcome as I am currently going through the training process, trying to complete the three exams in a shrtish period of time. In the past I have trained for a marine longe range radiotelephone certificate, so have some experience on radio use.

[@richardbaker8928]

I'd be in favour if a basic license like the Foundation is still an option. A lot of people love ham radio but just can't get their heads around the electronic theory so if only one license is available we could see a decline in new blood coming into the hobby.

[@4428314]

Hello, I just watched your video using the Ampro sticks that you made a few months ago. Very nice indeed, I am glad to find that I am not the only person that does this. I am writing from New Orleans, which is the only city in the US that is below sea level. In fact, my house is below sea level, so I often go to the levee keeping the Mississippi River from overflowing. I normally operate QRP, but occasionally operate full power on my FT-891 as well. I love the DNR for the clarity it gives receiving signals. Enough of wasting your time, I write to say that over here, we must progress through three stages after we have been tested at each level. Great and helpful videos, please keep up the good work. 73 KG5OBD

[@timg5tm941]

Really appreciate the comments thank you 73

[@pasixty6510]

If they prove to have the appropriate knowledge, let them get the appropriate license. In Germany we have this opportunity. But it doesn’t depend on how many questions you happen to answer correctly in one test. Before the exam you must decide wether you want to make the exam for class E (DO-callsigns - novice license) or the exam for HAREC (prefixes DB...DM and DQ...QR - as DA is reserved for Clubstations, except for DA1 and DA6 which are reserved for members of the (allied) host forces, DN is reserved for educational use, DP is reserved for extraterritorial stations e.g. ISS or operators in research stations in Antarctica). The only difference between novice Lic. and HAREC is the level of the technical exam. The rest (knowledge of laws, knowledge of good operating practice) is the same for all licenses. But the technical level for passing Class E is much lower than class A. But you can make your exam for class A without passing class E first (like I did). On the other hand you can pass the exam for class E first and upgrade to A just by passing the test for technical questions class A. (like my son did) My son (I admit, I paid for his licensing fees...) had to pay the examination fee twice, one for class E, one for class A. He was a DO then and became a DL after a few months. I think we should be happy for every new member of our (aging) community. If (s)he wants to enter on low level, let her/him in. Same applies to entering at higher level. If (s)he passes the test, let her/him in

[@briantheminer]

Fantastic discussion. As a currently unlicensed learner, I’d welcome the opportunity to try go right in at the deep end. If you fail, you can either try again, or go back to the 3 tier route if it’s still available then. I’ve grown up with amateur radio, as long as I can remember back dad was licensed

[@A.R.O.T.A.]

While I only passed my foundation test last year. I do feel it is important for people to gain practical skills on the air before being allowed the full privileges of having a full licence. New Zealand, for example, only has one test however before you are allowed the full privileges of having a full licence there is a probationary period where you must make a number actual contacts (I do not know what restrictions apply to those in this period or how many contacts must be made or even how long it lasts).

[@g0fvt]

Back when I took my RAE I booked my exam, did not attend the course, just turned up on the evening of the exam (two papers), figured to myself it was too easy for someone that was in RF engineering so only applied for a licence having passed the morse test. I do realise that for many people the technical stuff is far removed from what they do for a living though. TBH some of the question pool was of marginal relevance even then, not sure most candidates needed to know the differences between a Colpitts and a Hartley oscillator. I cannot see why "direct to full" is a daring new move at all, historically I don't believe it has been a problem.

[@MrScotchpie]

Hi Tim, I'm a happy M7 and the thought of two more exams was a bit daunting. To think there maybe just one more exam makes me more interested to get the books open again.

[@kensurtees2303]

Same here M6NZF. If I could go for one exam for full the books would be out😉

[@netwarecracks7780]

I think its a good idea, you can just concentrate on one exam to get what you want rather than the current arrangement

[@timg5tm941]

Agree

[@ei3ixbdavidgardiner270]

Tim as you said straight to full license in EI,our regulator refuses to have starter or intermediate exams. The advantage is full privileges,all bands,400w and operating abroad but more work to pass exams initially. I’m in favour but then I did get lucky with the exam even though my daughter said I had no chance due to my bad maths!

[@eamonncaz]

Anything that the RSGB can do to cater for all needs then it’s got to be a good thing. I was told by a G4 that all the RSGB are interested in is radio operators now and not electronic engineers ! In reality tho, just think how much time has been spent over the last year on invigilator time for all three exams! When one could have done!! Just a thought!

[@tristan4777]

Personallly I took the RAE, so I cannot object if it or something very similar is introduced. I did have some involvement with a club around the time I took the exam but nothing happened in terms of training up a teenager, and getting some operating experience. Mainly middle aged men (like me now lol) who talked to each other and I was just there. I think despite there being two local clubs here in Lincoln, that experience is why I've not joined either of them. There are more options these days to listen in that there were for me in the late 1980s, there is web sdr so you can use the computer you already have to listen in (would suggest doing this first!). There's nothing to stop you getting an SDR yourself and listening with a simple home brew antenna. A range of options is probably a good thing and tries to accomodate as many people as possible.

[@TonesElectronics]

I’ve mentioned in passing before on air that since getting the foundation last year, I wish there was a way to skip the intermediate and go take the full. If this goes through don’t know how long it would take to implement but would prefer to say study longer, rather than go through intermediate first. M7IVY

[@timg5tm941]

I think many (not all) think the same

[@stuart0604]

Doing my intermediate now, fair play to anyone who can go straight to full but I'm happy doing them one at a time with a break in between

[@A.R.O.T.A.]

Good luck with your exam.

[@stuart0604]

ha ha just realised it was you I had qso with just now Cheers 73 @@A.R.O.T.A.m7bht

[@A.R.O.T.A.]

@@stuart0604 I do not seem to have your callsign in my log. Please recheck. What mode? Date? Time?

[@timg5tm941]

Thanks Stuart good to work you! 73

[@A.R.O.T.A.]

@@timg5tm941 Aha Now that makes sense as to why I didn't have him in my log.

[@hfvhf987]

I think it's a great idea on the whole, i do have one or two reserves but i think the pro's far outweigh the con's. They could drop the intermediate if it goes ahead really. Like it was when my dad too his licence, class B then class A.

[@dxscotland5901]

I think it’s an excellent option for people who feel equipped

[@timg5tm941]

Agree

[@Jonnyweareten]

100% agree

[@Scif64]

A step in the right direction much like when I took the RAE. I think there also needs to be a bit more time spent regarding operating practices and procedure, This used to be be a big part of the RAE along with the more technical side of thing's.

[@timg5tm941]

Yes I agree this is the bit that online learning has to grasp.

[@willian.direction6740]

Always been able to get a full licence first in VK. In fact they dumbed it down the other way. The full licence was the only alternative one time.

[@johnnorth9355]

Interesting. As a newish M7 I can say that I have no interest in going up the ranks until I have explored all the possibilities that the M7 licence offers - at least a couple of years of learning and experimenting. Lower power - although 10 watts is too low ? - helps prevent mistakes and interference issue whilst that learning is undertaken and let us not forget the shack safety issues as well. To me the big issue is the ease of access to equipment for the unlicensed operator - recently equipping myself post exam I have not once been asked to provide licence details - you only have to scan the airwaves to see the results of this. I am too old to want to influence the debate and spend time that I would rather spend on air but I do wish wisdom on those involved. 73 M7 BLC

[@tiggydorset9041]

Interesting. Jury is still out for me. I got my foundation last year (one of the first few to do the online exam), then got my intermediate in August/September. I have no plans to got for my full as I am happy with where I am ( I like QRP and don't need the extra whiskeys). Perhaps it will be good to have the option to go to full in one hit (if you are confident and knowledgable to do so, then you deserve it), but the options to go part of the way should still remain. Another option is for intermediates to be automatically upgraded to a full after 3 years experience at being intermediate.

[@AmateurRadioUK]

I think I fall into the same category as you because I'm a little on the fence with this one. That's a very interesting idea about the automatic licence upgrade after 3 years. They were doing exactly that for motorcycle licences here in the UK (I don't know if they still are, they may have changed the system since I did my licence). You had the option of doing "restricted access" (in other words you were limited to a small bike after passing your test, then the restriction automatically lifted after 2 years), or you could do the "direct access". I think there is something in that idea. We absolutely should encourage new people into the hobby & should be making it as accessible as possibly for newcomers but.............. My concern with going direct to the full licence is experience (or lack of), which counts for a lot. I think back to when I got my foundation licence. Technically I could have passed the full exam straight off (young lad fresh out of college, used to doing exams & could just memorise the exam questions & often passed exams after spending a couple of hours reading the book without really understanding the material). The only thing that held me back from doing this was the fact that they made you do the exams in order. That slowed me down enough to get a bit of experience under my belt before getting my hands on the high power stuff. Whilst restricted to 10 watts as a foundation (& even 50 watts as an intermediate) I did a couple of stupid things, got a couple of RF burns, probably caused a bit of RFI & generally learned how to properly setup my station (for example proper grounding to prevent RF in the shack etc). I did this whilst limited to relatively low power. I think if I had gone straight to a full licence as a kid (with the potential of being allowed to use 400 watts unsupervised straight away), I would have been positively dangerous! Having said that, I do think that our current system is fundamentally flawed. I think the 10 watt limit for foundation licences is absolutely crazy. I don't think any other countries impose thins limit on new licences? I think limiting full licences to 400 watts is a little over zealous, when you consider that most other countries set the limit at either 1000 watts or 1500 watts. As a full licence holder, I can technically build and use my own transmitters & amplifiers. I wouldn't have a clue where to start with that & it would be absolute carnage if I did try. I would probably wipe out several entire bands with interference!!! As one of my friends pointed out to me.........the really good thing about being limited to low power is that it causes you to focus on making your antenna, grounding system & feedline as efficient as possible. In other words it brings your antenna skills up to scratch. He has been an M6 for years & is very happy to play QRP. He really doesn't seem bothered about upgrading his licence for the higher power. His antennas always outperform everyone else's despite him running 10 watts (usually less). Most the rest of us are running at least 100 watts & still have a weaker signal than him! In your words, "the jury is out for me".

[@dasy2k1]

I'm currently working on doing my intermediate, I will then do the full, not because I need the power (I would probably use 100w as a full but unlikely to run a linear) but for some of the other privalages especially the international HAREC recognition and being able to pass greetings messages (I'm a scout leader that would be very useful for JOTA)

[@tiggydorset9041]

@@AmateurRadioUK Yes, I am guessing my licence upgrade idea is directly influenced by the motorcycle licencing system. I got my full motorcycle licence when I was 17 in 1995.

[@Rod_2E0RLR]

Well I take my full licence on the 5th march.. no turning back now .. GULP!

[@timg5tm941]

Good luck 👍

[@Rod_2E0RLR]

@@timg5tm941 Thanks Tim hope to hear you on the bands with my new G5RLR or if I can wangle it G5LR :)

[@Jonnyweareten]

Did you pass ok?

[@Rod_2E0RLR]

@@Jonnyweareten No John failed 😥

[@jasonhowell5362]

if it keeps radio alive then im all for it, i think i should be granted automatic access lol been a m3 for years lol

[@JelsterUK]

Coming from the old "RAE" exam, the one thing about the current licence structure that I'm uncomfortable with is allowing everybody access to virtually all the bands, but with reduced power. If you live in a village like myself with no other amateurs around you, who knows what power you are running? At least with the previous scheme, novices (2Exxx) got limited power on some VHF bands but, if I recall, not 2m (or was it not 70cms?). The B licence gave you access to all the VHF bands, and then Morse gave you HF. I would like to see the current foundation licence to be similar to the old novice, but give access to parts of the some of the HF bands (say 10, 17 & 15m) with reduced power.at 25w. The next step up given access to some of the other bands but at 50w, and then the full licence be exactly that, all bands at full power. As regards to this current idea, it's great, but I honestly feel that there should also be a practical operating test as well. Letting somebody who has never really actually used the bands loose on air with 400w is a bit unnerving.... Also, the pass mark needs to be sorted, if it's 67% of the whole paper, that means that they could get almost all of the operating questions wrong, and still pass!!

[@dasy2k1]

I would love to also see one of the licences harmonised with the CEPT novice licence

[@paulcheesmur1858]

I think it's a great idea to give all the options. Some people might be happy just getting to a intermediate license . It's great to see the exams can still be taken online at home and I'm confident this will lead to many more people getting into this great hobby. The numbers of people taking the foundation course online now show it's definitely the way forward. Love your vlogs, keep them up. Thanks

[@tirasoft8582]

Hello . I am interested in this very topic. May I ask if there is actually a way to go to full RSGB licence right now ? My ground for it is : I am an engineer, I've hold a radio amateur full licence abroad in EU in my 20's . I did put up my first TX/RX rig done by myself in the 80's, I've done a fairly amount of QSO's (over 1500). Of course I will have to prepare and study for the RSGB exam, but having a fast route available for full UK licence would be an advantage for me.

[@timg5tm941]

No direct to full licence yet but it’s under consultation. I’m sure with your background you have a great opportunity to do that

[@KC6CNN]

Tim i had a question but did not know your direct email. I am looking at a second antenna and was wondering what you think about a EFHW verses my doublet. Will it be close or is the doublet going to out shine the EFHW ?

[@timg5tm941]

Let’s compare a 66ft doublet and efhw. If both are configured exactly the same then performance on 40 20 15 10 would in theory be identical. There are some potential differences: 1. The doublet requires a good tuner, the efhw should not on the main half wave and harmonically related bands 40 20 15 10. 2. The doublet would give you access to 30 17 12m plus in all probability 60 and 80m. The efhw would probably be able to be tuned using an atu on 30 17 12 but performance not likely to be great. Forget about 60 and 80. 3. Being centre fed the doublet, probably, may well be less noisy than the efhw. 4. The efhw is more flexible in terms of installation: sloped, inverted l, inverted v, horizontal. Both are very good Antenna options for a single wire multi band antenna. I especially recommend the efhw for portable operating above all other antennas. Hope this helps? 73

[@michaelbarnard9029]

South Africa, also has the direct to full license (ZS/ZR) option . The requirements is 50% per subject with a 65% average to pass the RAE. The RAE consist out of 90 questions in 3 hours. 30 points Regulations and 60 points Technical. The candidate must also pass a Practical HF assessment which include setting up of a HF station, calling and making live contacts with at least 5 stations, closing of the station, completing a logbook, completing a QSL card. We do have a novice license (ZU) but this license will laps automatically when such a license holder turns 25 years old. In such a case that person will have to write the full license RAE should he/she wish to continue with Amateur Radio as a hobby. Hope that explains a bit how it works here in South Africa. 73 de ZS4MJB Michael

[@timg5tm941]

Thank you Michael that’s very interesting to see how ZS does it

[@chrisg7veo495]

I think it a great idea for making it the one complete exam

[@Daeve42]

More options for entry are a good thing for a hobby with a low take up (I'm not sure if its true, but I'd read that more license holders are dying each year than new ones getting licensed). I'd have gone this route if it were open, one exam is just logistically easier than three. Finding the time is tricky with children. I took my Foundation March 24th, Intermediate April 8th and have the Full April 22nd (next Friday). I decided I'll get a radio and go along to a club (if I can find time) once I've passed all the levels and understand it better. Being totally new to this radio thing, I see the problem seems to be a low take up the hobby/qualification compared to many other countries - Everyone I'd talked to about it recently since deciding to go for the exams looks blankly at me - "don't you have a mobile phone?", "what is it?", "why?" it's not a very well publicised activity. Anything that makes it more attractive, logistically easier to get into it has got to be a good thing - and remember different people need different ways into it - I hated the idea of weeks of going to a club, the slow progress, in person exams , teaching at the rate of the slowest in the group - it just wouldn't have happened for me (and frankly, the perceived demographic of clubs based on the outdated websites didn't appeal to me, I may be wrong). Covid and the online exams looks to have helped, but the RSGB should build on this momentum. Entry level bar is pretty low at Foundation, I was surprised the exam is not negatively marked, you can learn only 50% and guess the rest to get the pass mark - on balance I think its a good thing. As Ofcom don't seem to police the airwaves anymore its not like you "need" a qualification to be able to abuse the system - you just need £25 and radio off Ali-Express. Foundation at least means you understand the rules and basics, direct to Full with no experience is still better than no qualification and being on the airwaves.

[@barrywendon5168]

Yes I would like to see the Full Licence back . Yes it can be done 73 Tim de G6JMX

[@janhenkins]

I welcome this idea with open arms. While I am certainly one of those who would have do walk the "long way around", I think that it is excellent that a fast-track is available (the US had something roughly like this for quite some time, even though in their case you would have the opportunity to write all the exams in sequence on the same day). For those who are reticent that this will bring about lots of instances of "bad radio etiquette" or people operating outside their license conditions, it may well happen. But, I doubt that it will happen statistically more than what's happening at the moment anyway. As a bunch of people, the current amateur radio crowd is pretty good at self-policing and supporting newcomers - as a one-year M7 I can attest to how welcome this community in general has made me feel (with a few grumpy exceptions, which is all good). So, TL;DR: RSGB, go for it, keep amateur radio fresh! 73, Jan - M7HNK

[@timg5tm941]

Agree with you Jan and as for poor etiquette listen to 80m most evenings and you will hear people with decades of licensed time under their belts who garble their calls, never use them or double every other over with their mates.

[@mw0cvt]

One licence for all, great idea.

[@StuartM0TTQAmateurRadio]

Great idea and it puts right some of the muddle. If we find people come in at Foundation and skip the Intermediate (and the daft callsign), good, but it is also good that there is no plan to scrap the 3 tier progress route. I don't expect that many will come straight in and do the Full from "cold". I don't see why clubs should suffer from either the lockdown changes or this - someone who is on the bands is more likely to join a club than someone who isn't because the exam structure is dysfunctional. People who organise "virtual club" meetings are saying that they are seeing lots of interest from people who got licensed during lockdown - there is no need to have the ham-fisted compulsion back from pre-lockdown. The point you make about international comparisons is interesting. I came across a US General class who is moving here who needs to do his Extra in order to benefit from CEPT (this applies in all CEPT members). If you have a look at the General exam, it is more difficult than our Full!

[@timg5tm941]

Very interesting observations Stu. Hope all well mate 73

[@rodwilkinson3304]

I wonder just what Ofcom’s view of this proposal is?

[@johnnorth9355]

Probably the top levels at Ofcom will regard Hams as a confounded nuisance taking up valuable drinking time with their constant recommendations ! lol.

[@wisteela]

@@johnnorth9355 😁

[@timg5tm941]

Do they care?

[@wisteela]

@@timg5tm941 They certainly don't seem to care much about repeater abuse.

[@g1hwy]

@@wisteela Seem to care about your EIRP and the general public. Another section for the exam no doubt.

[@mrs3231]

How about a rebate for hams halfway through ?

[@timg5tm941]

Write to the RSGB and add this to the consultation (see description for the link)

[@nodshred1]

I think it should be a choice if you're confident enough. I enjoyed doing the 3 licence levels especially the practical of the intermediate level. I was lucky to find a good club with a great tutor which I think is half the battle, 73.

[@timg5tm941]

Great points 👍

[@George_Salt]

As a recent M7 the Intermediate has no interest/value to me other than as a stepping stone to Full, the real value of going beyond Foundation to me is reaching the point when it becomes HAREC and can be used abroad. In terms of difficulty the Intermediate is closer to the Full than it is to the Foundation. This could very well be the beginning of the end for the Intermediate licence - is a modest power increase and a few more options in terms of building transceivers enough of a reward to make it attractive as either a destination or a waypoint to Full?

[@timg5tm941]

My thoughts precisely George 73

[@George_Salt]

@@timg5tm941, if the loss of Intermediate was a consequence (either completely, or just to all practical intents and purposes) would this not also reignite the debate to increase the power available to Foundation to increase its attractiveness to those dipping a toe into the hobby before progressing straight to Full? Whatever happens, it's sure to upset a lot of Top Band users and the Club Repeater crowd.

[@timg5tm941]

Totally agree .. my personal opinion is a two tier system with 100w and 1kw limits respectively

[@George_Salt]

How do you get from here to there? Intermediate can't be given a free ticket to Full because of HAREC, and I can see a lot of "S'not fair!" Violet Elizabeth foot-stomping if Foundation and Intermediate end up being merged at 100W (plus the usual, "KIds these days..."). Aiming for a two tier system do we end up with a four tier system with legacy Foundation and Intermediate licences?

[@seeul8rwaynekerr]

Same as a direct access to full motorcycle licence, why not for those who work in science and engineering as a profession. What if you've had previous licences in aeronautical and marine radio?

[@timg5tm941]

Agreed

[@redeyegooner]

I studied for the foundation and found the mock tests very easy, so jumped into the intermediate syllabus. I'm quite confident I can pass the intermediate exam, so I had a look at the Full syllabus. It seemed like it was written in another language. I could not understand it at all 😅 I think if anything, people will skip the foundation licence and go straight for the intermediate. That's what I'm planning to do 🤞

[@mu0chn]

About time. I think the system at the moment would put people off if they are capable of taking the full exam. My background is mechanics, left school at 15 went into the motor trade. Didn't find the rae easy but passed. People should be able to start where they feel comfortable.

[@timg5tm941]

Agree 100%

[@eddieMurphy11111]

i think by going through the different licences you learn more on the bands come strait in to class A license you do not learn what to do and not to do on the bands

[@richylad]

I think it is a good idea, but I think there should be some basic QSO operating/training, perhaps an allocated amount of time with a tutor that includes conducting a QSO, maybe using Zello etc. Maybe only 15 minutes or so. I would have skipped 2e0 if the option was there.

[@wisteela]

I really like the idea of doing that over Zello. That also would be a great way to practice with people.

[@timg5tm941]

Good idea

[@dasy2k1]

In some ways it could be worth removing HF from the current foundation licence (like the old class B) and having an intermediate license that met the requirements of the CEPT novice licence (and was internationally recognised as such)

[@stevemunro8559]

It was like that over 20 years ago

[@timg5tm941]

I think allying band availability to licence level has long gone as an option

[@Pedro8k]

Only if it is after passing the full training course and does not just give the full licence away as a short cut

[@johng7rwf419]

Hi Tim, I arrived in radio via the single City & Guilds exam in the dark ages. It was perfect for me as I was REME trained and worked in the robotics industry. It would be a good way to hook new hams by offering the ham exam to those in the forces and colleges as a stepping stone during their technical training. Even if we only hooked 5%of those candidates it would be a useful source of new and young blood. I think you work in colleges, what are your thoughts? J

[@timg5tm941]

Very good idea

[@chrisbartlett6022]

I think this is a very good idea. However back in 95 I don't think I could have gone straight to full, Novice, Intermediate plus the 5wpm Morse was a very good way for me. I was able to do a once a week Evening RAE Course at Hereford Tech to eventually get to full. So, yes a very good idea, as long at the other levels are still kept.

[@steveparkes]

I haven't taken my foundation yet but both the foundation and the I intermediate look like things I could pass with a fortnight's bedtime reading for the pair. The plan is to take the foundation this month and if I get on with hobby the intermediate a month or two later. I don't want to use high power stuff but I do want to homebrew so the reason for stepping up both times is to allow that and give the information that will be useful. The reason I'm not booking both the first two exams in one block is I'm autistic and don't like using the phone so rag chewing on phone modes has no appeal at all. The more structured conversation on digital modes or doing contesting, sofa etc does potentially hold appeal but I need to give things a whirl for the minimum cost to start with. Which is obviously foundation and VHF,UHF FM which locally is all rag chewing. If I can get past that I'll pick up a cheap hr transceiver and take the intermediate.

[@steveparkes]

Hit send instead of return. I don't have the knowledge to take the full licence without investing a bit more time than I can afford if I then find most of the hobby incomparable with my personal circumstances but I'm a software guy with a science background it doesn't take a lot more than my background knowledge or a bit more security that it's the hobby for someone for that leap to make sense in some circumstances. Personally I was a listener for a few months before I even subbed to amateurs on KZbin and have learned a lot just listening. Like most local VHF FM content isn't for me ;)

[@PedroskiClimb]

Stephen, the foundation is certainly NOT all VHF. UHF and FM. I'm an M3 and work HF only, 95% CW and 5% SSB. My interest lies in low power communications, antennas and portable operating. I think the same applies to a lot of us.

[@steveparkes]

@@PedroskiClimb it's the cash aspect I was referring to. I've got no interest in rag chewing with people I could talk to in the supermarket queue if I was inclined. Which is 99% of local VHF FM traffic. I don't use telephones so a telephone that allows me to talk to random locals about the focus vaccine isn't appealing at all ;) HF is a big investment in something I'm not sure I'd be interested in. A multiband rig that can do ssb for digital modes is 10x the entry level of VHF FM. I'd love to be able to drop that kind of cash on a new hobby but I'm the sole wage earner for a family of four where three of us are disabled so that's not an option. QRP is where most of my interest lies and if I had confidence that my CW would be good enough to not frustrate my contacts I'd probably jump into that at a much lower entry cost to start with but I don't want to ruin the hobby for other people.

[@PedroskiClimb]

@@steveparkes please don't think that wanting to try CW would ruin the hobby for other people. Far from it! I found it really enjoyable to learn and have had nothing but support from other. HF with CW and dead simple wire antennas can make for really inexpensive fun. If you want some pointers on learning drop me a line!

[@dafyddr8678]

For myself being a M6, going straight to full will not happen by my choice. I think there is merit in slowly building upwards along with maintaining quality of Hams on the full side. I would hate to see quality go down the pan. We had something like this in Nursing. It was called Project 2000 where Nurses could skip many doors to get into the care system. They qualified and because they lacked certain skills which one gains along the way caused many things to fail and the quality lacked. Saying all that, I guess it is down to the person and their understanding on quality of standards... Thanks for a great video as always. Take Care. Dafydd M6ULU

[@andrewbrookes2707]

Back to the RAE by the sound of it. Good idea as far as I'm concerned. Why worry about the lack of practicals or no practice QSO's, they never happened for the RAE.

[@RobR386]

I had to do all three exams to get my full ticket, but I would have liked a direct to full option, that way I would have only needed one exam.

[@guitstikkustoms4448]

Here in the States, we pay one fee for the exam session and have the opportunity to take Technician, General and Extra all in one sitting but most will only take the Technician and hold off on the other two. I have yet to take ANY of the exams due to Cov and the snow we just got but I have been studying to take all three. I have wondered why the Extra could not be an all inclusive exam that could be taken rather than doing all three. By the way, taking all three is a total of 125 questions over three hours, I would rather take 75 questions. How about if I take the UK version of the test on line and get a G0 call sign, that would be cool. 73 from Mississippi

[@BoB4jjjjs]

It should be if you are confident enough you should be allowed to go for it. I also think that you should be allowed to go straight to Intermediate if you think you can do it. I also thing the 10 watts is just to low for Foundation, it should be 25 watts to keep peoples interest in the hobby. I think it has to be kept three stages for those that want to try dipping their toes into Amateur Radio. It would be good to see it set up so you could go for whatever you feel you want to go for. In the old days it was pass and to get Full Licence you had to pass Morse. My mate got his licence without ever taking the exam as he did it all at his work without realising it. However, he never bothered to learn Morse, so he could transmit using loads of power, but he needed Morse. Our club up here never did courses, they did a half hearted one, but it was just electronics, not done to well. Not sure how some got through it, must have been a collage course. Anyway, those are my thoughts on it. Oh, the 25 watts. Most CB users are running a lot more than that right now without any or very little interference. If they can do it surely a Foundation Licence holder can use at least 25 watts.

[@driverfilmsshortwavechannel]

Can't see it being an issue of you are technically minded. I did the foundation licence in 2016 and the intermediate in 2020. I'm glad I've done it in steps as I work shifts so getting time to go through a course has been difficult. Full licence possibly end of this year? Not sure yet

[@Equiluxe1]

I do not see that clubs should suffer from this, I took the RAE back in the 90's went to evening classes at the local tech and they put us in touch with the local club KL. which I and just about every one els in the class joined those that did not were coming from further away and joined clubs in Norwich and Lincolnshire, I enjoed both the club and the evening class the evening classes probabley a bit more than the club in many ways as there was no politics going on in the background. As for constuction most people these days are going down the black box route and will never own a screwdriver let alone soldering iron, I know people who do not even know how to use a hammer but are still good operators. To each his own, I prefer constuction to opperating and others just like to operate, anything that draws people in and encourages them to go for a licence is good by me so the two systems should really be run side by side.

[@g1hwy]

I did a course at the tech college in Worthing back in 84, it was worth it's weight in gold. We learnt a lot from an experienced amateur, I was pretty good a physics and I am an electrical engineer so the tech side did'nt bother me. Must have learnt me stuff got two distinctions.

[@9bar7and9bar8]

I don't see an issue with it as its horses for courses. Coming from an education background, people learn in different ways so if you are from a radio background perhaps in your career then why not go straight in for the full licence. If though, someone finds the hobby interesting and develop at their own pace then they should be allowed to do so and most importantly not be judged by going that way. At the end of the day, these are exams. All it says is that on a certain day and time the student achieved the standard required, a bit like the driving test. The amateur exams are no different. When you pass you continue to learn everyday just like driving. Thats the beauty of our hobby, we continually explore, get it wrong, understand why and then learn how to fix it. Tim, i see another hobby sticking its nose out in your video, something i have been doing since i was 10 yrs old...and can't wait to get back out ! 73 Sid MI5UTC

[@timg5tm941]

Great points Sid. You mean my golf clubs? I’ve not hit a ball for 14 years but maybe one day!

[@9bar7and9bar8]

@@timg5tm941 Get out with them...its a great walk spoiled !!

[@PC1I]

Here in the Netherlands we have 2 licences, Novice and Full. It is allowed to go for Full without having Novice, I did that myself in 2000. I can imagine that someone who did absolutely nothing radio related needs Novice first to learn to use and so on. Coming from CB, starting in 1979, and lots of shortwave reception from that time till 2000 I think I knew enough about the possibility's our hobby has. I decoded RTTY, Packet Radio and lots of other digital modes for years before I did the exam for instance. Different licences is OK with me but going for full without Novice should be possible. I did not know you had to start with novice till today btw. 😉 73 de Kees PE2KM

[@timg5tm941]

Thanks Kees 73

[@markg6jvy135]

Good video Tim 👍👏👏 It’s gone down hill since B licenses were made full 🙄 I don’t think structured correct operating is a worry as I’m fairly confident there’ll be the odd amateur who’ll point it out to them 🤔 More folks in the hobby the better imho- if you’re buying a black box and not taking it apart and twiddling with it, do you need a 2½ hr exam that’s electronics heavy?

[@g1hwy]

If anyone can reach the level, why not. I took the RAE way back in 84 and I helped a mate get his at the same time.

[@wisteela]

This is all very interesting. It will also be very interesting how it all plays out. Also, that's a really nice rugby shirt. 73 M7TUD

[@timg5tm941]

Thanks!

[@Ray_M0MXN]

I would have much preferred to have done the one test rather than three. Will be annoyed if this becomes a reality but it won’t kill me. Interestingly as a 2E0 would it be easier to take the straight to full test as would be an easier test that the current Full exam as it stands.

[@andygee7017]

I think if the present process is to change, Intermediates should be made up to Full. The Intermediate exam was hard enough thank you very much, and I want to use me wireless in foreign parts. I mean, come on, I’m 64, pretty much self taught, got my Foundation in May last year, followed by the Intermediate in September, and don’t want to see another formula as long as I live. I even had to buy a blasted calculator for the exam, despite having a perfectly good one on my phone along with, by the way, all them formulas. Guess what, if I need to know anything, I look it up in a thing called a “book”. They’re all the rage. I can already do this, that and the other, what more do I need to be able to use 51 watts? (Aah! I dream of that elusive 51st watt). (Might start a club, “The 51st Watters”). Any road up, to keep dissenters of my fabulous idea happy, there should be an exam for present day Intermediates to progress to Full. I’ve written it already. It requires 100% pass mark and is multi choice of course. Here it is...eh hem!! Q1. Do you want a Full license so you can operate at 51 watts abroad or at home or ona boat n that etc? Yes. 🔲 No. 🔲 That should do it. Andy M7LCY + 2E1LCY = M/G**** (LCY’d be nice, but hey ho)

[@Jim_2E0HKM]

Welcome back to the days of licence snobbery.. What I'd like to see is an exam that reflects that this is a science based radio hobby, not an electronics hobby which gives you access to radio spectrums to briefly test your new experiments. Which to me is how I see things set up right now. But back to your video, no real need for the intermediate licence once this has launched. My 2EO could be a collectors item then in a few years then. But will there be anyone left to talk to by then or will everyone be sitting on there full licences fiddling with there ex military radio equipment in there sheds.. 😁

[@timg5tm941]

Agree about the 2E Jim. I think at least half will try foundation to direct to full. Worth it if part of the syllabus is intermediate and foundation. Specialist courses can be provided online and even if the pass rate is around 45-50% it’s well worth the go. The sooner we go to a two tier system the better. With power levels which mirror places like Ireland and the US.

[@TomG2NV]

In principle the option to take a "Direct to full" exam instead of the three tiers is fine. However wind back a little. Firstly I believe that the RSGB should not have any involvement with setting the syllabus or exams leading to an amateur radio licence in the UK until it has first signed up to a program of oversight from an independent body (OFQUAL is the obvious one) Since it took over from City&Guilds RSGB unlike any other body involved in running training & examination has no accountability or scrutiny from an independent body. It is trusted (God knows why!) by Ofcom to run the entire shooting match. A cosy little cabal of chums set the syllabus, questions pool and handle any challenges, complaints of inaccuracy, unfairness or impropriety. This would not be acceptable in any mainstream educational setting. Without transparency in it's processes and being answerable to independent oversight RSGB has zero credibility! The plethora of committees involved with exams are chaired/steered by the same tiny number of people, they instantly close ranks when any criticism or observation of dishonesty comes their way. Frankly the whole arrangement is highly unprofessional and totally unfit for purpose. As for reform/future of licences, I think some streamlining wouldn't go amiss. I'd like to see a two tier system. Collapse Foundation & Intermediate into one "B" licence course/exam that would give entrants say 100w & chunks of band allocation across the spectrum. Except 60m. (Same as in the US.) Then an "A" class licence with 1.5Kw in the usual bands. Another option to encourage progression might be to make the foundation licence say a 50w power limit with perhaps a 3 year evaporation period whereby anyone who doesn't progress in that period looses the licence or maybe loose HF privileges after that time elapses? Given the dreadful QRM so many suffer with 10w is often inadequate. Its also impossible to police, so why don't we be realistic and up the power levels but with a time limit so foundation level is only a stepping stone with an expectation to progress. Tin hat & flak jacket on I await the chorus of execration! 73 Tom.

[@timg5tm941]

Very full reply Tom! Agree 100% on A and B tiers and power levels. I’m still on the fence about the foundation progression suggestion. As for Ofqual not overseeing .. I find that astounding.

[@TheGazLab]

It’s about time I say, my only worry is new comers may find it to imposing if it’s to be the only way in.. and how long!?😂

[@timg5tm941]

Not sure it’s the only way Gary. I think the 3 tier system will work alongside.

[@TheGazLab]

@@timg5tm941 I say make it 1 hour and no Nov or hombrew leave the advanced for homebrew and NOV’s 😂 waiting for the flack . Com

[@2EOGIY]

Poland 20 questions to get HAREC cerificate bip.uke.gov.pl/swiadectwa-operatora-urzadzen-radiowych-tresci/swiadectwa-amatorskie,3.html

[@1959johnts]

been a 2e0scm since april 2012 full exam too hard all my gear collecting dust since 2015 great for keeping folk in the hobby im not a brain surgeon or a electronics engineer thats shit for joe bloggs thats interested soon to get dissalusioned and leave the hobby took full in 2015 failed 27 correct since then asked club to do the full training got told if you want to do the full go to another club we aint interested thank you Northumbria ARC since then lost all interest

[@timg5tm941]

What about Bath online training? Great reputation for online full licence training

[@radionutio81ij79]

Rsgb should be pushing for a two tier licence system foundation and full, the foundation taking in part of the intermediate exam. Do away with the idiotic intermediate callsign, with the option to go for the full Without the foundation if the candidate has the ability to do so. 73

[@timg5tm941]

I agree 73