Ham Radio - SOFTWARE INNOVATION IS DYING !!

#amateurradio #hamradio #hamantenna
State Frequency Coordinators are transferring their repeater information to RepeaterBook, which will restrict other software developers from using it. This goes against the spirit of Ham Radio and the role of Frequency Coordinators. This is "Our Data" which should be shared openly, however it is controlled by a small group that claims exclusive ownership. In reality, this information is public, consisting of basic facts like Input/Output Frequency, PL Tone, and a few others, which are not subject to copyright. Ham Radio is struggling due to a lack of technology and innovation, and this needs to change.
See whiskeyniner.com/

[@uselessfacts-nd7pj]

It’s much like Noah no longer giving access to weather data because corporate entities lobbied to make it a payed service. Noah is funded by us so we have paid for it already.

[@N5XHIworkshop]

Keep the fight up. I would look at starting a website for your project and asking clubs and Hams to add their Reapter info in a usable format that you could use in your program. Offer a free years service for 10 new Reapters. Change the system and start your own Reapter information site!

[@Chasing_The_Dream]

Don’t quit. I can help you with Maryland.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

Okay, I'm going to take you up on that, I'm getting some stuff together that will allow people to help !!

[@JJH0326]

Can't wait to get my call sign! Passed the tech a few months ago, just about ready to take my general test next! As for the amateur extra, I haven't even started studying - but I'm gonna wait til I get issued my first one at least before I try studying it. Not even sure if I'll be approved since everybody I tested with got theirs already.

[@goombakiwi]

My was in the database within a few days. Contact your volunteer examiners and see if they can help.

[@synonyx]

It's so easy these days to make a proper website. It blows my mind how many ham related websites haven't caught up with the times. Repeaterbook can sometimes be PITA to use. I do like how it links into RT Systems software though. Their funny though, "Your program isn't useful but we consider you a competitor" laughable. I just went through the trouble to compile a list for southern NV because repeaterbook didn't have everything. I think you are onto something with your app. I had 3 radios to program last week and it was beyond frustrating to have to constantly redo the CSV files for import to line up with the software that radio uses. I would gladly pay for a subscription to a website that I could have some flexibility in how I extract repeater data that was able to be exported in specific formats. Icom's repeater lists use GPS coordinates in which your radio can determine the nearest repeaters. I'd agree, repeater data is public knowledge.

[@WorldRadioLeague]

You're doing great work - you took data that should be easily available and created an awesome, user-friendly app around it. Ham radio needs more innovation like this or it will die.

[@TroyRank]

Amazing application! Gmrs repeater directory is actually much better then that of hams which is disappointing but not anymore

[@TroyRank]

It would be cool to have a review feature or the ability for users could add info / reviews. who uses them,net info , all-star / echolink etc. I really love what you have done and what you're saying about technology in ham radio.

[@KK4CNM]

Can I create an account to add repeaters in the south east? Im a member of SERA and can pull the information and locations of coordinated repeaters in GA. KU. MS, NC, SC, TN, and WV.

[@magwhyte]

If enough of us have accounts that can upload local repeater information would that be a solution to the data issue and also build a supportive community of active hams?

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

I am putting that together, a way for folks to help populate the database ... more to come

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

@@magwhyte I am putting that together, a way for folks to help populate the database ... more to come

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

Email me at [e-mail]

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

@WhiskeyNiner-HT 3 days ago Email me at [e-mail]

[@skullyface]

Quitting isn't answer. You have to change this from within. I understand the frustration but more people need to know about this BS. Keep making noise. Create an open standard for repeater records and give us a way to upload/contribute them for our area. I help run 3 repeaters in my area and nobody can tell me what to do with my repeater information. You can add it to your system and tell RBook to piss off. It kinda pisses me off that I give them that data for my repeaters and they are gatekeeping that stuff.

[@GVDub]

I have been so looking forward to your software. the concept of "owning" this sort of data is just plain wrong, in amateur radio or anyplace else.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

I am not giving up, in fact, going into high gear, creating an API to let folks help populate the data

[@BrentCasavant]

Get Ham Radio Crash Course, Ham Radio 2.0, and other influencers on board and I bet you’d have this data crowd sourced in no time flat.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

Ya, I wish, there's just no way to reach those guys, I've thought of that, and hoped they'd get wind of this issue. You know, this is absolutely a huge deal and there is no way that the FCC would be in favor of this.

[@mallardchandler]

@@WhiskeyNiner-HT Those guys have a pretty active discord community. It's easier to reach them than you think. While I can't speak for them, I'd believe they'd be all for this.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

Please share this video with other Ham Radio operators

[@AlanTuringWannabe]

What are you developing it with? I mean what framework?

[@N0FPV]

You should enable local execution to still call an external API source.

[@thuff3207]

You are right and I do understand what you’re dealing with on repeaters. I was a hardware developer now management and agree we need to do much more with ham radio. I travel with my job and take a Kenwood D74 with me on all trips. Yes it will pull Dstar repeaters but it’s tough to find an Analog repeater that is working. This includes using a Ed Fong rollup Jpole taped to a hotel window. What you are developing would really help us to find woking repeaters and that would solve new hams too. Then they can find working repeaters. Note I build software digipeater for APRS to get coverage in bad areas on a bike event. Before I started you had to buy an expensive TNC to build one that a raspberry pi direwolf and audio interface can do better.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

Thank you !!

[@JohnStys]

Don’t quit!

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

I'm not, this has given me renewed energy !!

[@shadowsrwolf]

do not look at RTTY data that stuff is ooooold

[@uselessfacts-nd7pj]

Ham radio is the very root of open source!!

[@kingdick4508]

Exactly!!

[@someguy782]

If only the boomers involved could understand that.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

@@someguy782 Yes, that is why we are struggling. They largely had no technology skills, and now we're way behind, not sexy to the younger folks, and the only reason we even have a chance at all is the prepper crowd has bought millions of hand helds.

[@someguy782]

I've honestly never seen a hobby so potentially interesting with such abjectly uninteresting and uninterested people involved.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

I completely agree, I hope that some of these comments aren't truly from the Ham Radio community? The fact that they cannot recognize that two people (only 1 of which is a software developer) will literally own, yes own, all of the repeater data and refuse to let anyone else write software for the Ham Radio community is a big deal. Instead, they're concerned that I might screen scrape some data? BTW that is how RepeaterBook obtained their data, it's stated right on the FAQ page, how the hell do these people think they obtained it originally? If they're so pure let them look at the Frequency Coordinator Sites and key the info directly into their radio via the radio menu system. Also, RepeaterBook runs Google Ads and are not a non-profit company as far as I know. So, the Frequency Coordinators are turning their data over to a group that is already preventing other software developers from using that data, I would say "our" Ham Radio data, and potentially making a profile while doing so and people are saying to me "You suck man". So ya, I would agree. No wonder our hobby is tanking. We have no tech and no-one cares ...

[@broadcasterofdisaster3587]

This is every aspect of our system, not Ham Radio. People, like yourself did a thing before you did a thing and asked people to contribute, now they have a database that they have to maintain and pay for. It's not free. If you copy their idea, even as a massive improvement and deploy it using their servers, they will loose the funds to maintain this data they have taken time to collect because you will be receiving the funds, not them. You cry because you did a lot of work but not the needed work to run a sustainable business off of this, period. Ham Radio is very innovative right now its insane. You're mad at the system.

[@someguy782]

You have the face of someone who would think this way.

[@timlewis2068]

@@someguy782you have the face of someone who's mother cried herself to sleep every night.

[@skullyface]

The problem with this line of thinking is that while it's true the hosting of that data isn't free, the information IS free. They didn't send me a check when I added my repeater data to their site. If you can't make a superior product that people want to buy.... all you have left to do to make money is stamp out the competition. If they suck at running their business and lose (yes, that's how it's spelled) funds then perhaps they should have made a sustainable business.

[@AnIdiotAboard_]

TO be fair here, the data you've stolen (and you have stolen it) is there's, they own it, there users uploaded to it under there privacy policy's and terms of service. They have spent money to acquire and maintain that data, they provide that data FREE for personal use. So why you might not agree with em, they didn't steal anything from you but you have them. Now that said there is a piss easy way around that problem, give your users accounts, and make them provide there own API key to the data, its then PERSONAL Use, and your app has become nothing more than an interpreter. We use that method alot to STEAL others data and stay within the rules.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

You are sorely mistaken, I never broke their license agreement. I downloaded their data, used it to write my application as a "proof of concept", never released it to a single person, used it only for personal use. Then, I showed the two people at Repeater book my prototype and asked them if I could publish the application for the public to use, 100% free. They said NO, you're a competitor. So, I stopped using their data at that point, my application never left my hands with their data. I did not steal anyone's data. Now, my code reads their JSON files they return, I could easily publish a version that lets you download their data yourself and have my application simply import the files you downloaded, thus I would not be publishing their data. However, I believe that breaks their license and I'm just not going to go that route. I think eventually, this is going to be settled in the courts in that Repeater information is not subject to copyright laws, it is public information, merely facts, and cannot be claimed to be part of a copyright.

[@pupeno]

Have you read Feist Publications, Inc., v. Rural Telephone Service Co., 499 U.S. 340 (1991)? I think until a judge evaluates whether that precedent applies to a list of repeaters, the way it applied to a list of phone numbers, I don't think we would know whether the data is stolen or not. But to be honest, what a colossal waste of resources that would be. I'm personally creating another app, Repeater World, and I'm avoiding Repeater Book because I don't want to waste resources like that. I hope the community helps me rebuild that data and Repeater World's data is free and open, so if Whiskey Niner wants to use it, they can.

[@someguy782]

Screen name checks out.

[@hugov392]

@@WhiskeyNiner-HT regarding facts and copyright, you might be disappointed. Not sure about the US, but in the EU and UK we have what are called 'sui generis' database rights, which are like copyright protection for databases of non-original or non-copyrightable content where there has "been a substantial investment in obtaining, verifying or presenting the data". In other words, while the data for a specific repeater would not be subject to copyright, the total collection / database at Repeater Book probably would be.

[@Plasmastorm73_n5evv]

So you're complaining that you would have to do work to compile all of the information? Forget this man. If you aren't willing to put in the time there is no reason to help you.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

You missed the point, the information is becoming more and more unavailable as State Frequency Coordinators are hosting their data on RepeaterBook itself?

[@skullyface]

I can see your point but in my case RB didn't have to 'work' to get my data. I'm the one that did the work typing in the info for my repeaters. I'm not saying they should hand over all of their data but I'm not sure how I feel about them gatekeeping MY repeater information. Maybe let me decide if it's 'shareable'. I don't know. I can see both aspects of this. I think I'm more upset about the State Frequency Coordinators thinking their data shouldn't be made freely available to the amateur radio community. "Someone might make money off of this data". Well, wtf do you think RB is doing? I think you should check the pockets of the Frequency Coordinators for cash with RB fingerprints on it.

[@uselessfacts-nd7pj]

It’s much like Noah no longer giving access to weather data because corporate entities lobbied to make it a payed service. Noah is funded by us so we have paid for it already.

[@WhiskeyNiner-HT]

Ya, exact same thing, that's totally bogus, I agree 100%