Ham Radio Super DX Using a Simple Wire Antenna

[@freddyb2098]

Thanks Peter for your contribution to the Ham Radio Hobby. I always enjoy your content here in the U.S. God Bless you and enjoy your Holidays, Kind Sir.!!

[@watersstanton]

Many thanks! Always good to hear from US. Made many trips to US.

[@DavidLopez-bz4rj]

Worked VK and ZL many mornings with less than 5 watts at the antenna from Spain and a 3 element wire yagi 10 meters high. Totally readable for the stations, we had nice QSOs, so magic...

[@brianfields4479]

Thanks for sharing, what a fascinating hobby we all enjoy, and you always make it so much more. Good health.

[@watersstanton]

Nice words. Thanks.

[@vetham100]

Thank you Peter for sharing your knowledge. I have learned from you. Best 73 and keep up the good work!

[@stuarthall3874]

Watching your video makes me recognize that I am very much suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Every time I think I know something about radio, I soon come to realize how little I know. Your talking about being in amateur radio for sixty years, leaves me wondering if you are still learning new things as well. Amateur radio seems like a lifelong adventure. Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts.

[@watersstanton]

Oh yes, I am still learning! But that is the fun of the Hobby!

[@Roger-be2eu]

Good morning Peter, thank you very much for this extraordinary lecture that we will certainly never hear at any university! Everything is great including the music, which is also the author. Lots of health and happiness! We will continue on this channel.

[@watersstanton]

Thanks Roger.

[@kenmartin1211]

I am fortunate enough to be a member of a Radio Club who does extensive work with HamSCI and this has really helped me to start getting a better understanding of HF Propagation. Very good video... I enjoy all of your content Thank You KC3ZDW 73

[@watersstanton]

Our pleasure!

[@73deoldtimer]

Another interesting and thought provoking presentation Peter, many thanks. It just goes to show that after all these years there is still much we don't really fully understand about the propagation of radio waves. It really is still quite magical and as you say exciting when you make a link up without wires. 73, Martin, GW3XJQ

[@watersstanton]

Yes. it is quite amazing. 73 Martin.

[@davidportch8837]

Many thanks Peter... Another very interesting and practical video... much appreciated de G0KPZ

[@nigelhadley]

Fascinating stuff Peter! I have been working Brian ZL3XDJ regularly every weekend since 2019 from my QTH in Margate Kent. Early morning grey line. Brian with his verticals and me using inverted vee maypole dipoles for 40/20M and an inverted ‘L’ for all other bands. The inverted vee arrangement gives me a bit of vertical and horizontal I guess? Amazing how reliable this path is. We are up to 333 QSO’s now, predominantly on 40 and 20 including a recent 2 way QRP QSO 5w on 20. But we have also made it on 80, 30, 17 and 15. Also 9 QSO’s from Devon operating with club call GX0HRS in 2023. Find it amazing how reliable this path is. All QSO’s CW apart from one recent SSB! Love this hobby! 73 Nigel G4BSW 👍

[@watersstanton]

Hi Nigel. Yes amazing path and so reliable. Workedhim yesterday on 20m and 40m. I think you and I had a three way several weeks ago? 73 Peter.

[@nigelhadley]

@@watersstanton Hi Peter, we did indeed enjoy a three way CW QSO back in October on 20m. Great working "The Far Side". Look forward to working you again. 73 and a very merry Christmas - de Nigel G4BSW

[@petermccarthy5794]

Fascinating! I am mainly a cw operator and your video made me go «aha I’v experianced this» thank you! I am facinated about the idea that the signal is trapped, maybe between the f1 and f2 layer? I had a qso with an Antarctic station like this. He was vertical, I had to switch to horisontal and he was 599. Amazing theory, thanks Peter.

[@watersstanton]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@sailingmakai2127]

Two summers ago Brian and I took a qcx mini down to his local beach and made contacts into the UK and all over western Europe. The antenna was a ground mounted 1/4 wave vertical with 4 wire radials. It was grey line long path. Signal reports were very good with some stations reporting 599. I was blown away. That was the first time I had done anything like that. De KD6XU Barry.

[@watersstanton]

Hi Barry. Yes, salt water and verticals are a marriage made in heaven!

[@thegingaman]

Hi Peter, Thanks for the video-nothing like the mysteries of antennas! On my shortened 1/4 λ base-loaded vertical (Signal Keeper), originally a CB antenna modified for 10m, I managed to work the west coast of the USA this week on less than 25W SSB. It’s worth noting that this antenna is set up in the loft on some pretty awful coax. Surprisingly, it has less noise for the USA than my EFHW. When I eventually get the Signature 12 and MA5B built, I’m guessing the mini-beam will be superior. Great idea to test on the reverse beacons-my EFHW seems more like a cloud warmer at the moment! Many thanks and 73, Steve (M7OOR)

[@watersstanton]

Keep at it and have fun.

[@TravelinHam]

Propagation paths to your antipodes is interesting to consider as a signal in any direction will reach the antipodes.

[@basshorseman998]

Thanks Peter, always interesting info

[@watersstanton]

My pleasure!

[@petemillis4666]

I mentioned before about the research on propagation in relation to OTHR, using PHARLAP, and this supports the theory that the long distance propagation is optimal at higher elevation angles, and chordal hop is at play. 73 M3KXZ

[@watersstanton]

Yes I have heard from several US sources that the angle is significantly higher might be expected. Thanks for your input.

[@Test-hw5fn]

Peter, thanks for this very informative video.

[@watersstanton]

Glad to hear. Thanks.

[@mariemccann5895]

Another gem, thanks.

[@Cognis-Insights]

Fascinating, thanks Peter, 73 Drew

[@watersstanton]

Many thanks.

[@wshanney]

Several articles and books have mentioned that dawn and dusk ionospheric tilts provide the mechanism for coupling into chordal hop paths. I know here on the west coast USA that the radiation from low horizontal antennas is reflected at a lower angle making the path to Japan and Asia much stronger at dawn. I think your suggestion that higher radiation angles are involved is correct. These behaviors simply make HF more interesting to me...W6QR.

[@watersstanton]

Hi Bill. Nice to hear from you.

[@petemillis4666]

Peter, did you get on 20 m a couple of mornings ago on Tuesday? I worked Brian again then with my 5 W and Ampro 20 whip, and at the time there was an incredible amount of echo on our signals. Just before our QSO I was listening to him in QSO with Staffan whose echo was at the same strength as his initial signal. Wonderful to listen to and a challenge to work! Great video again, by the way. Peter. 73 M3KXZ

[@ykdickybill]

Really enjoyed this. I’m just getting into the hobby and take my foundation exam shortly. Trying to learn as much as I can. Amazing that you can enjoy morse code comms ( Continuous Wave CW, I know, I’ve just been reading about it 😅) with someone in New Zealand South Island !! Absolutely staggering. Can I ask what the precise frequency was, I realise you were on 20 meters. Many thanks.

[@EI6DP]

Hello Peter - very interesting.

[@watersstanton]

Many thanks

[@MINI-4X4-RADIO]

Just a few things off the top of my head... 1. Differences in Ground Conductivity UK vs ZL 2. Vertical is Omni, G5RV will have Lobes and different Take Off Angles 3. The Grey Line Variation on Entering and Leaving the Grey Line UK vs ZL

[@watersstanton]

Thanks for sharing. We have eliminated points 1 and 2. Radiation and receiving angles are more likely as I mentioned in the video and am doing so e more work on this.

[@dandypoint]

Excellent discussion and rationale. Your horizontal dipole is at a good height for 20 meters, being close to one half wavelength. That gives it a broad vertical lobe centered around 35 degrees if at say 28 feet as I think your is. Its lower 3 dB down point would be at 16 degrees. That’s not too shabby! Everyone says higher is better but not in all cases. The high antennas like 70 feet have a peak at 7 degrees and another peak just above 45 degrees. The devastating thing is they have a null at about 30 degrees! That null is noticeable between angles of 20 to 40 degrees. That’s where the signal will be down 3 dB or more. Those angles are not as useful on 10 and 15 meters but I feel they are very useful on 20 meters. In general for long distance DX the full of thumb is higher the better but that does not always apply in every case. The big contest stations have antennas at multiple heights and ways to change the peak angle to suit conditions. Having had big Yagis at 70 feet I don’t feel I have lost much by having my 20 meter antennas at 35 to 40 feet. To me not having a null in the direction (elevation as well as azimuth) you desire is better than having simply more height.

[@CamilleCullen-ow6qj]

Great video, many thanks!! Robert K5TPC

[@watersstanton]

Thanks for watching!

[@CurtNovitsky]

Is the impedence of the ether always changing like the weather ?

[@Roger-be2eu]

Hello Peter again, I've been thinking about how New Zealand is an almost an antipode and using a simple dipole or a vertical antenna, there are two opposite propagation directions with similar propagation times up to Brian and Peter. As the time is similar, it can happen that in the receiving antenna there may be two signals in phase and therefore constructive, increasing the amplitude of the signal! Thank you and greetings friends from Portugal. Sorry for my English!

[@watersstanton]

Great to hear from you. Usually signals from two directions have an echo on them and we have not noticed this. But nothing is ruled out!!

[@vladtepes481]

A very interesting discussion. It would be worthwhile to compare the radiation patterns of your G5RV and vertical antennas on 20m. The efficiency of vertical antennas depends on the electrical conductivity of the soil. Most locations on the New Zealand south island have quite poor soil conductivity, England is quite a bit better but not super. The effectiveness of ground radials is affected by soil conductivity. A better grounding (more radials, better soil conductivity) lowers the radiation angle of the vertical. Poor soil conductivity would favor the use of elevated radials. Your G5RV may have a lobe directed toward NZ on 20m.

[@buildingsbyair]

what vertical are you using?

[@Tech-NO-City]

I have a 49:1 efhw 80m antenna sloped and a 9:1 32ft vertical antenna. The vertical is quieter for some reason. Im located in US, IL. Both antennas function well and receive nearly the same stations.

[@watersstanton]

Interesting. Many thanks.

[@jockmazza]

This answers my own question. I changed a g5rv into a half size. Bought a 15 quid laser measure and tried to see where to put the end insulators on. I can buy 9m telescopic fishing poles for 39 quid at each end. I have a 7m dx commander pole (thanks Callum) and can either do the inner and centre at 9m and the outer at 7m.. or mess aroind to see what works. As an ex military comms guy/ex CB 27ukfm guy I will prob try to avoid the outer near the house or try radials. SO peter says his .5 g5rv is 30ft up. So tats the 9m poles i will buy. I will also buy 2 x b and q buckets. Fill with post crete and 2 inch plastic pipe to make moveable/temp mast retainers .. and crank my ftdx3000 to 100w in due course 2E0IXA 73

[@watersstanton]

Sounds like a plan.

[@ykdickybill]

Sorry, also what power were you transmitting on, cheers.

[@scottb.2022]

Hi, newer ham here. How does one know if their signal went long or short path?

[@TelfordO]

Think that is through time of day.. just my thought de g0sgo

[@brianfields4479]

Rx sig is via lp on a beam in the uk

[@watersstanton]

Normally LP is in UK morning and SP is in evening. However you need a beam for positive check .

[@Rubedo777]

Peter… it’s because when you send to ZL… it’s all down hill… 😵‍💫 and when Brian sends, it sling shots around the Antarctic and ‘flirts” ( tech term ) back round and up to UK. 🤔 Brian’s worth looking up, he’s quite a character. 😉 Best wishes to everyone.73. 💙 G0UvL

[@watersstanton]

Nice one! Yes Brian is a great guy.

[@bigmartin]

That reflects my experiences with a ground mounted Hustler 4btv, a Cobweb and a 40m EFHW inverted L.. The Cobweb and the EFHW knocked spots off my Hustler, I actually gave my Hustler away (tbh it was pretty useless)

[@Scotscan]

Perhaps you have an interesting radiation patern on the g5rv, you may well have some useful lobes generatong on 20m? Its quite high up agl so wouldnt be surprised

[@watersstanton]

It’s a half size G5RV and not much better than a 20m dipole.

[@haraldlonn898]

I wonder why should the signal go over land and not the other way over water. Maybe a stuppid idea from me. Thanks for great videos. Oh and never forget 5 degrees LOL.

[@watersstanton]

RF signals have no regard for what is beneath them. Mother Nature determines their route!

[@DarrenMay-o4u]

Hi Peter it's Darren 2woddz I was curious what height Bryan had his vertical during the tests.Thank you

[@watersstanton]

2m above the ground with 4 radials.

[@christurner68]

It is the same reason the water flows down a drain in the opposite directions in each hemisphere 👍

[@watersstanton]

Apparently at the equator they have a real problem!

[@mariemccann5895]

Actually, it isn't.

[@johnforte3466]

The Coriolis Effect. Which way will your water swerl as it goes down the drain. What hemisphere do you reside.

[@donphilbin5659]

Please define "small garden" as in size

[@fraserhardmetal7143]

Anything to do with the direction of the earth's magnetic flux ?

[@gkiltz0]

The UK has hills but not really mountains New Zealand has the second highest mountains in the Southern Hemisphere after the Andes.

[@BastHoen]

Very interesting video! thank you, Bas PA5BAS

[@watersstanton]

Thank you too!

[@steveschroder8782]

O wave vs X Wave

[@franciscolopez3229]

I would just like to share an experience I had. If you guys have noticed the chain of typhoons we had here in the Philippines just recently, I had to put down my homebrewed rotary dipole from 25 feet then down to a 12 foot tripod. Then, another typhoon was coming so I laid the tripod down with a third of it on top a stool so the dipole was 28 inches off the flat ground. The following morning, I heard a couple of Indonesian staions with strong signals stil with my dipole down that low. Out of curiousity, I tried to make a call, and what do you know, I made it through to both of them 5x6, 5x8 me at 50 watts and we started laughing because we were all amazed. That was on 10 meters by the way. Being new to HF, can anybody tell me what might have happened regarding this for my better understanding. I sure would appreciate it very much. Oh, I almost forgot. The aluminim dipole was horizontally 28 inches off the ground. Thank you.

[@watersstanton]

Not sure where you are, but it shows - “give it a try!”

[@gkiltz0]

It has to do with the angle of radiation.

[@robertallbright]

Thanks Peter for a most interesting video Presumably you were using the 1010? 73 and 🙏 Robert G3RCE