Poor Man's Repeater Project - for new HAMs! :)

On the web: www.ham4all.com - The Amateur Radio Hotspot
Using inexpensive components we show how to build a very simple SIMPLEX Repeater system to extend the range of handheld radios. This solution can be a great start for new HAM operators without serious financial commitment and technical knowledge. Watch the video and make your own "Poor Man's Repeater System". :)

[@Ham4All]

AMAZON LINKS: - QYT KT-8900: amzn.to/2yWLJie - QYT KT-8900D (newer model) amzn.to/2NdTwvp - Surecom SR-112 Cross Band Repeater: amzn.to/2KBkon6 - Repeater Controller Cable for QYT: amzn.to/2tG9p5u - NAGOYA UT-72 Mobile Antenna: amzn.to/2tUyAAw - Power Supply with Cigarette Lighter (cheap) amzn.to/2KyAq16 - Power Supply more powerful and high quality (analog): amzn.to/2IF8Sp4 - Power Supply more powerful and high quality (digital): amzn.to/2NdSnE2 - Cigarette Lighter Splitter: amzn.to/2NflF4W - Baofeng UV-5R (cheap) Ham radio: amzn.to/2IF9DOW

[@Ricks2Cents]

I have a 115’ Tower on my property I’ve been wanting to build a repeater for Sooo Long!!!

[@jimtheedcguy4313]

Damn, that music is pretty sweet.

[@Mulazim.]

I have made my own repeater in the 90's from two rubbish VHF transceivers 25 watts, it was perfect...

[@SuAmigoElilegal]

How is the range since is 25 watts. I have done it with 2 5 watt radio and the range is just like radio to radio. Not much different unless I have the antenna way up in the air

[@mediclimber]

Okay, so you're using the QYT 8900 as the receiver/transmitter with the Surecom SR-112. The Baofeng isn't in the circuit so to speak, right?

[@Ham4All]

That's right! We used the Bao and the TYT for transmit and receive to activate the simplex repeater, but they were not hooked into the system.

[@SuAmigoElilegal]

What is the range? In a urban city a radio to radio is mostly 1 mille to 2 milles tops with 5 watt radios,, so what is the range by using these and also is there any solar power supply

[@Ham4All]

Range always depends on the particular area and the antenna installation / location for best coverage. Power supply could be achieved by using a power brick hooked up to a solar charger, but that's a different topic. Check out advices and ideas posted about the subject on KZbin.

[@SuAmigoElilegal]

@@Ham4All this unit has over 20 watt of power. Does that helps when u don't have good antenna signal , to push power signal further

[@Ham4All]

Power does NOT help you without a good antenna. All you achieve is to flood the local immediate area with powerful radio signals, but they will NOT be able to increase the actual range. Antenna IS the "power distributor", which is more important than power itself!

[@SuAmigoElilegal]

Witch antenna needs to be the highest when u don't have the douplxer . The Rx or Tx antenna

[@Ham4All]

The transmit antenna should go higher for maximum coverage in our opinion.

[@ostadamin3358]

how to setting all menu at the handy and that rig? can u give the example?..thnks..73..

[@robinj.9329]

There used to be 3 or 4 companies that sold individual components or kits, for any Amateur to build a full blown "Standard" repeater, a cross-band repeater, or one of these "voice recorder" simplex type repeater. In my area, some of these "Home Brew" machines that were hand soldered by a single or group of enthusiasts have been operating for years! A couple for over 2 decades! Kits for receivers, repeater controllers, transmitters, amplifiers and power supplies were advertised in many hobbyist magazines. Guess those were "The Good Old Days"! Now, many of these kit producers are gone. Very sad, and a great loss to our Hobby.

[@spallwalker5683]

Any reason you consider the cig lighter adapters a must have? Wouldnt it be cheaper to use spade, molex, or whatever connectors one had on hand?

[@Ham4All]

For this application, which is meant for new HAMs, it is! The radio's connection is made for the cig lighter and new HAMs may not be familiar with or have any connectors at hand when they start out, so the best and most simple solution is to use this application. Many handheld radios also offer battery eliminators as an accessory that also use the cig lighter, which is an additional reason to have a small and inexpensive power supply like this one, if they choose to use one of their handhelds as a simplex repeater or even a cross-band repeater base-station if the HT has such ability. But of course, there are many other solutions one can choose from to experiment with, as they go along and become more knowledgeable.

[@emranmohamad3116]

I have a Yaesu Base with 30 Ampers power supply and X-520 External Antenna. Please excuse my ignorance of these items and communication gadgets presented but I wonder if I could use the Poor Man's Repeater with my available set up??? Please provide guidance and I am interested to buy some...

[@th3duke1]

Another very good video. Any chance you could provide us the list and models of items?

[@Ham4All]

Basically we picked a bunch of inexpensive components for demonstration, but any configuration would work. There are a whole bunch of cheap mini radios out there (so pick whichever you prefer), as well as different brands of simplex repeaters (also many models are out there) that can be used. The one and only "tricky" part is the interface cable, which we had to hunt for a bit but luckily found one, otherwise we would have had to make it ourselves. And the result: an easy to setup and fully operational communication-extender solution without the complications of cross-band or full-time repeaters.

[@sewercrew1952]

If you want to go deluxe on the controller, for 100 bucks Argent Data sells their version made alot better than surecom china controllers with all kinds of features like remote off and on, locking, cw and voice identifier announcments, adjustable volume and lot more stuff, i had one of these 60$ controllers and they seem to get stuck on me, glad they are working for you!

[@Ham4All]

Yes, we're familiar with Argent's version, which receives high reviews, so if they could bring down the price, their simplex repeater would take over the market, but unfortunately their system is just way too expensive.

[@mynameisnobody3113]

I have the argent simplex repeater controller. I run a uv5r radio hooked to a 90w amplifier with a flat coax antenna on it. I will say it is an amazing setup for very cheap. As long as you can deal with using a simplex repeater.

[@kd5you1]

I believe that you would need to be able to shut down the station on a link radio/frequency other than the one your simplex repeater is operating on. Also the FCC requires that transmitting stations ID every 10 minutes.

[@Ham4All]

Incorrect! The only requirement is that you MUST be able to remotely shut it down. Also, since the simplex itself is NOT an active station, it does NOT have to be self-identified in every 10 minutes. Only the operator(s) using it are required to identify themselves while using the simplex messaging system, because it is NOT a "repeater" by definition. The built-in identifier feature is for ONLY one purpose; to let the operators know they are within reach of their simplex unit.

[@kd5you1]

Actually it would be better to use a control frequency different than your input frequency or even a phone line because if someone were bad mouthing all over the repeater and he had a signal much stronger than yours you would have a hard time shutting down the repeater. I'm not sure what you mean by 'active station' but according to part 97 Rules every amateur station except a space station or telecommand station must id at the end of each communication and every 10 minutes during the communication. Whether the repeating is simultaneous or delayed it makes no difference the audio is still being repeated from that station's location. The FCC rules don't mention anything about simplex repeaters specifically but repeaters in general.

[@Ham4All]

Incorrect again! A Simplex is NOT a repeater, but a message forwarding device and that makes it different in actual application. Let us quote the applicable reference from the ARRL website: --------------------------------------------- A "simplex repeater" is used to extend the range of low power rigs such as handhelds by storing the signal transmitted on a frequency and then retransmitting it through a more powerful or better-situated transmitter on the same frequency. According to the rules, however, such a device is not a repeater since it does not simultaneously retransmit the signals of another station and it does not retransmit the signals on a different channel or channels, as specified in the FCC's definition of a repeater, so it can't be operated under automatic control. If a control operator is present and controlling the device, either locally or by remote control, then it can be used. But it cannot be left unattended! On the other hand, it is not limited by the other repeater rules, such as repeater frequencies. ---------------------------------------------- Since the operator is present at all times and fully capable of controlling the device, the simplex is fully compliant with the rules, because again, it is NOT a repeater, and the users themselves need to identify their call signs (which they do along with the simplex unit that retransmits their ID on the same frequency band) and not the message recorder/forwarder itself.

[@kd5you1]

The problem is that just about every simplex repeater posted on KZbin is left unattended. If the device is transmitting on a transmitter that is different than the one you spoke through then it needs to id itself whether you are sitting next to it or not. My simplex nano-node has to id every 10 minutes. My digipeater has to id every 10 minutes. The digipeater retransmits the data it just heard out on the same frequency but not simultaneously. Simply iding through the device from another radio doesn't fulfill FCC identification requirements for that simplex repeater. The ADS-SR1 Argent Data Simplex Repeater would be a better choice because it can be programmed to id every 10 minutes or sooner. If you don't believe me, call the FCC and tell them that your transmitter never ids.

[@Ham4All]

OK, let's go through your main points once again: > The problem is that just about every simplex repeater posted on KZbin is left unattended. - You don't know that, since you are not the operator of the devices and you have no way of making such claims without verifying it locally, so please, don't make such bogus claims. Second point is that leaving a simplex repeater unattended is a direct violation of the rules that operators are fully aware of, but since such devices are operated on a temporary basis and not as a permanent installation, they are only used while the operator is in direct need of the service who identify themselves as required, after which they turn off their simplex units. > If the device is transmitting on a transmitter that is different than the one you spoke through then it needs to id itself whether you are sitting next to it or not. - Simplex repeaters by definition can only transmit on the SAME frequency, since no cross-band repeater is involved that would use UHF uplink with VHF downlink. So you're either confused or misinformed about the fundamental operations of the simplex repeater itself. > My simplex nano-node has to id every 10 minutes. - Incorrect! Simplex repeaters do NOT have to identify themselves, only the operators using them, since, yet again, by rules, they are NOT a "repeater"!!! You seem to have difficulty understanding this very important distinctive definition. > My digipeater has to id every 10 minutes. The digipeater retransmits the data it just heard out on the same frequency but not simultaneously. - If your solution does not retransmit the data simultaneously, then by definition, it is NOT a repeater, only a simplex 'transmitter' that works as a message storing and forwarding device, which does NOT have to be identified at all. > Simply iding through the device from another radio doesn't fulfill FCC identification requirements for that simplex repeater. - Completely incorrect again for all the reason we've mentioned multiple times again and again and again and again... and again ... > The ADS-SR1 Argent Data Simplex Repeater would be a better choice because it can be programmed to id every 10 minutes or sooner. If you don't believe me, call the FCC and tell them that your transmitter never ids. - We do not operate on "beliefs" but facts, which are very simple to comprehend based upon applicable rules and regulations. But if you need to "believe", then you should contact the FCC or consult with a more knowledgeable operator or entity like the ARRL and ask them to confirm what we've already told you regarding the operations of Simplex "repeaters". It seems that you get hooked on the "repeater" term and that's the cause of your confusions. But if you think that your system is more compliant just because it identifies itself (unnecessarily) every 10 minutes, then enjoy it and "believe" whatever makes you feel better. But please, do not try to convince people who probably know a lot more about HAM than yourself, just because you're confusing operational rules of various repeaters. With this, we consider this matter closed. Thank you for your comments.

[@ashton403]

I don’t know if someone has commented on the subject, and know you said this should work with most any radio, but does this only apply to ham radios or can this be used as well on GMRS frequencies?

[@Ham4All]

GMRS rules do NOT allow any type of digital solutions, including message recording and forwarding in this fashion, as far as we know.

[@ashton403]

I’m new to the whole radio setup, but how does the Retevis repeater work? This is basically the same principle as you’re using simplex so it will receive and transmit on the same frequency. I understand that the Retevis repeater is a duplex system, but I would think this could work on a GMRS frequency when using a GMRS specific radio. I’d be curious to see if it could be made to work with it (obviously within the scope of legality by the FCC). I’m looking into this as a preparation scenario. And thank you for the fast reply!!

[@Ham4All]

A complete duplex repeater is totally different, which IS allowed in the specified GMRS channels. You need 2 transceivers and an automated solution for station identification in order to make it completely legal. There are companies that offer "turn-key" ready to go GMRS repeater systems, however, they are quite costly. Of course, you can build your own solutions and there are radios which offer repeater functions, and they cost a lot less, but you still need a very good duplexer, high quality antenna and cables, power source, etc. But yes, you can build your own, but make sure you request a permit from your local coordinator and set up your duplexer for the provided frequency in order to avoid interference with already operating GMRS repeaters in the area.

[@bradhiebert6403]

What distance could be achieved with a directional antenna? Could 200 km be achieved?

[@PewPewDoc]

So how many watts is the over all system? What if u use 50W QYT?

[@Ham4All]

You can use whatever power you want and allowed by the rules. But remember, that radio communication is NOT about power, but power "distribution"! It is the efficiency of the ANTENNA that matters, not the power!

[@adiapostol2465]

Does the kt8900 need a repeater if you want to transmit atleast 10km radius from your home?

[@Ham4All]

Range always depends on terrain, obstacles and the placement of the antenna.

[@porcusdiu]

This system is based on PARROT, right?

[@Ham4All]

Just like an old-fashioned telephone message recorder.

[@porcusdiu]

@@Ham4All Ah ok, I understand.. Thanks.. :-)

[@jasonswift910]

I am trying this set up. Bought the cable. When plugged in I get a open carrier on the frequency... Any ideas why? Mono plug vs. Stereo plug?? Please help

[@Ham4All]

May be indeed the Mono/Stereo issue. The proper interface cable should not cause any errors. We've tried the same with another mobile radio and it's own unique interface cable, and had no problems whatsoever.

[@jasonswift910]

@@Ham4All hey thanks for a quick response. What do u recommend? I'm going to send u a few pic

[@jasonswift910]

@@Ham4All send me your email it won't let me send pics on here

[@Ham4All]

The easiest way to test the unit is to hook it up with a regular handheld radio, like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2qoY5WMYpqkgtk - If it works, then the unit is fine and you have some other issues. Check the manual for all setting options, set the volume higher and see what happens.

[@Jow_Rd]

Nice vídeo ! Are you able to sell It ?

[@Ham4All]

We test and then sell many of the equipment we receive, such as the mini mobile radio and some handhelds, but we kept this "simplex repeater" for its unique solution. We don't use it very often though, because our main radio setup has the cross-band repeater mode built-in, which is much more effective for increasing the range with real-time transmission instead of this "answering machine" solution.

[@sorstudios]

This is awesome

[@keyoflife24]

How do you set the radio to the 2m vhf band?

[@Ham4All]

Just enter the frequency with the keypad.

[@tangobayus]

Do you know if a signal can be passed through multiple repeaters? The reason I'm asking is we are hearing about California raising the cost of repeaters on mountains and I'm wondering if people built repeaters on 146.50 for instance at lower elevations could that increase the range.

[@Ham4All]

The higher the elevation (with no obstructions), the wider the range. That is a constant fact. We've heard that government facilities hosting HAM repeaters will start charging money, but not clear just how much? If it's not significant, then the operators or the club running the system should be able to cover the cost, but if it's too high and they have to move, then they will have to find other solutions, since the range will be limited. Home-run repeaters could be linked and connected to the web, but that option is available either way.

[@tangobayus]

@@Ham4All Thanks. Do you know if multiple repeaters could be linked to provide coverage between San Francisco and Los Angeles (for example).

[@Ham4All]

The subject is pretty complex, so best if you research it to find the best solution. Just do a Google search and spend a bit of time with it before you build one. Fo example, hee is one link: www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/repeater-linking.html

[@tangobayus]

@@Ham4All I monitor many repeaters in the San Francisco Bay Area. Only three of them have activity as far as I can tell. Mount Tamalpais is the most active. I think the fees could run into the thousands according to one article. One solution will be to have fewer well located repeaters and have a lot of people chip in a few bucks a year. For instance, if they could put one on the Sales Force tower it would cover most of the Bay Area. The other thing may be for people to get better antennas.

[@SANTANACHAVES]

this device (surecom) service pro radio digital or analog?

[@Ham4All]

The Surecom records voice audio. It's like an answering machine. It doesn't really matter if the voice is analog or digital, as long as audio goes into the recorder.

[@414RadioTech]

I use my surecom sr-328 to rebroadcast scanner traffic by connecting the scanner to the receiving end of the repeater and then goes out to the transmitter over to FRS Channel 1

[@Ham4All]

Then what you do is completely unlawful! As far as we know, re-transmission of any sort is ILLEGAL on the FRS system! Look into the rules before you get into trouble!

[@theskullcrusher4240]

can it do Station ID in Norse code

[@Ham4All]

You can record MORSE CODE (with "M" not "N") as the station ID in the outgoing verification message.

[@mikemcdonald5147]

Just found your videos and have to say weirdest ham radio related videos ever. Is there no speaking? I have to read everything? Ive never known of a ham who didn't like to talk LOL :) Not sure these vids are right for me....the music is a little distracting and having to read everything. Id rather hear someone explain. That said you present things well and I think it would be even better if you spoke and turned down the music. Still good info. Just not my thing.

[@Ham4All]

Mr.G. who makes the demos doesn't like to talk in his videos. This is just the way he makes his clips, with a very few exceptions.

[@dimebagtribute]

I'm always watching those videos, I have the TYT 8000 as well but I doesn't understand the purpose of a crossband repeater...!! Why so many people try to achieve it with this equipment??

[@Ham4All]

This is NOT a crossband repeater, but a simplex repeater, which is basically a simple digital answering machine made for two-way radios.