Hammaborg - Longsword Techniques (Pt. 1/8): Peter Falkner Manuscript

A workshop held at the Martial Arts Gathering Swordfish in Gothenburg in November 2009. Dierk Hagedorn and Falko Fritz from Hammaborg show a variety of techniques based on master Peter Falkner, a member of Johannes Liechtenauer's society.

[@SgtCronic]

You really have a gift in instruction. Your skill and techniques are excellent, and we thoroughly enjoy them. If you are able, please put up more instructional videos.

[@DierkHagedorn]

That truly is one excellent comment which helps me to enhance my skills. Thank you so much, sir.

[@UrbanCohort]

Thanks for the tip. Fortunately I found a place not terribly far from where I live, a group called forte swordplay. It's only been 4 weeks now but I've already learned a ton and there's no end in sight to the longsword's applications. It's pretty exciting, actually.

[@DaUsher]

I don't mind at all! I'm always returning to videos like these, but I always forget to thank the others who have answered before, Mr Hagedorn included. Silly me. Still, your answer is really helpful, and I thank you as well as the rest. Peace.

[@sexpot52]

More videos please this is so awesome.

[@DierkHagedorn]

@POPEPO71 and from the bind you seek your opponent's next opening. Depending on the distance, you can either strike or thrust at him.

[@DierkHagedorn]

There are techniques for cutting and there are techniques for thrusting. From a bind it depends mostly on pressure and distance whether you are able to cut, thrust or even slice. (Called "die drei Wunder" - the three wounders - in Liechtenauer's teachings).

[@TheBoxingCannabyte]

Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Even though I'm still struggling to figure out exactly how to balance out my bastard sword (it's a training sword but it's pretty well balanced from the accounts of people more knowledgable than me. It's a cold steel polyprop sword)

[@fistoflegend7846]

Thank you for making this!

[@DierkHagedorn]

You are perfectly welcome. Thanks to you.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Absolutely. The tighter the grip on the handle, the less sensual input you are ale to register. Which is what fencing is about to at least some degree.

[@DierkHagedorn]

These are sword simulators off the rack from Pavel Moc. Most of them are okay, and I was happy with them for a while. Meanwhile I would always custom order to fit my height - as you suggest. A length from floor to armpit is a useful dimension to work with.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Hello h3r3t1k, sorry for the late reply. The jacket is a fencing master jacket from allstar.

[@Veilliron]

Hübsches Beispiel, in dem das Indes sehr schön gezeigt wird. Schöne Grüße aus Linz!

[@DierkHagedorn]

@POPEPO71 intentions, his position, his strength, and, of course, his blade. Also, one has to stay in the "vor", that is to retain the initiative. If you fail to do so, the adversary might take advantage of this and threaten you with his point. So, if you concentrate too much on a specific target and fail to reach it, you might find yourself hit at another opening. The winding is the action taken from the bind. As stated above, you should not leave the bind in order to gather information;

[@DierkHagedorn]

@DaUsher Thanks for your kind words. Unfortunately though, I'm afraid that the two-handed sword of the Renaissance is not covered by my field of expertise. I am not aware of any German sources but believe that the Iberian material about the montante offers some insight in this respect. As for the availability of sources, I am very sorry not being able to help you there.

[@gurkfisk89]

I would recommend the "hema alliance club finder". It's a map with most of the schools. I hope that you will find a group close to you.

[@swordandshield]

Cool counter against winding into ochs. Thanks.

[@000000AEA000000]

youre aweseome Dierk

[@OMFGHUGEWOLF]

I love this stuff, euro sword play is fun stuff to watch, love compairing the simularities that show up in euro sword play to the Iai I study. Alot that is different too, because you can not used a curved weapon exactly the same as a straight edge but still alot of simularities.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Thanks, Duncan. If this is so, the answer is: The swords are approximately of the size used by such venerable gentlemen as Hans Döbringer, Andreas the Jew, Jost von der Neiße, or Niclas von Preußen. Should be good enough, since these seem to have been masters who really lived.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Thank you so much. I'll see what I can do.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Honestly, I don't quite understand your question. When you look at the illustration of the technique we are reconstructing, you clearly see fighters without armour. (Yes, I know, some harness fencing techniques in Talhoffer's manuscripts show the combatants without armour, but that's just one exception). Bloßfechten doesn't require armour, apparently.

[@Lobo1888]

I'd like to see zweihander vs. sword and shield, I'd like to know the techniques and each advantages. Thank you!

[@DierkHagedorn]

Since the Messer has only one edge and is (mostly) curved, several techniques cannot be adapted. However, a fair amount can - as one can see in the manuscripts by Johannes Lecküchner. He relies heavily on Liechtenauer's teachings but adapts them (and increases them by sheer number) in an appropriate way.

[@Surielis]

Right and I understand that. I was wondering if these short-edged techniques that usually are used for slicing, such as a schielhau could be made into a stab instead of a slice, making it usable for messer.

[@WritingFighter]

It took me a really long time to get this particular movement through my head because I realize now why people say it is so unorthodox. My instinct (and initial defense) is always much more straightforward but if my opponent performed a move such as this, it might catch me off-guard. How would this work against or by a left-hander (such as myself)? Actually just figured out that if someone tried that on me after the bind, my arms would be crossed because I am left-handed; I'd be in a much worse position. But as a left-hander that particular motion is unusual for me to encounter (usually). But this is Liechtenauer we are talking about.

[@UrbanCohort]

The group recently helped organize/run a local event called the Iron Gate Exhibition. I didn't participate, of course, since I only just started and don't have any safety gear...and I couldn't make it to observe, unfortunately.

[@Surielis]

Oh ok thank you again! This may answer the question I just asked you, but I posted that comment before I saw this.

[@DierkHagedorn]

@POPEPO71 As always, Master Liechtenauer's verses (or in this case, Master Falkner's adaptation of them) are tremendously tricky to understand and they withstand a clear translation. Double meanings of words have to be taken into consideration, and after all, they are verses, a very condensed form. The "war" (krieg) is what happens from the "bind" i.e. when the swords have made contact. One should not leave the bind because it is the bind that gives the fencer information about his adversary's

[@JohnRaptor]

In my (limited) knowledge, what few sources there are for the use of true two-handed swords points them being used almost exactly the same as the longsword. So whatever good sources, schools or clubs you can find on the longsword will get you at least in the ballpark.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Oh my goodness! Are you really *the* Halofreakanoid? The true keeper of all martial arts? The speaker of wisdom and clarity? Oh, I am humbled by your comment. Surely, you must speak the truth. Greetings therefore from the depths of oblivion.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Peter Falkner is rather late (1490s, same timeframe as Lecküchner) but he still is in Liechtenauer’s tradition. Interestingly, he adapts Messer techniques back into longsword. The nomenclature however is clearly influenced by Johannes Liechtenauer.

[@DierkHagedorn]

500 character are by far not enough to discuss these matters, but in a duel situation, you usually would pair equal weapons. But depending on the shield, the sword and the version of the zweihänder, the result mostly relies on the skills of the fencer.

[@DierkHagedorn]

My pleasure. Welcome to the desert of the real, dear friend.

[@Surielis]

I will admit that I do not know much about Western sword arts. I am rather new to beginning my research, but I am very interested in learning German longsword techniques. I am fascinated by the kriegsmesser particularly and am glad to see that many of the techniques are transferable. One question though: Would it generally be the techniques using the short or back edge of the sword that could not be used by the messer?

[@HipposHateWater]

I find most of the stuff that screws me up is trying to adapt to the circular tsuba vs a cross-guard. It's harder to keep someone's sword in check when all they have to do to free their blade is twitch it 2 inches. :P

[@DierkHagedorn]

Oh, thank you.

[@DierkHagedorn]

A sword has to comply with its user. Generally, a smaller person will need a shorter sword, a tall person will need a longer one. How long that actually is, can depend on various aspects, such as weight or just the correct "feel" of the sword. I have handled short and long swords alike, and size alone doesn’t tell you anything.

[@h3r3t1k]

excellent material. I was wondering what kind of fencing jacket you use in this video?

[@SavageInsight]

Thank you for the clarification - Sorry about the long delay. I meant longswords in general, though the Biden is exemplary. I asked because the majority of common knowledge seems to stem from judicial, personal, and otherwise non-battlefield use of the sword. Modern experts almost exclusively emphasize its use vs armor, yet the "combat puzzle" of a noble being left with only his sword vs a force had to have been an issue addressed, unless a fighter had frequent chances to pick up a fallen weapon

[@DierkHagedorn]

Two-handed swords like these were quite common. In the described context we deal with judicial duels. I'm not sure whether you refer to the large Bidenhänder - in this case, the timeframe would be some decades later.

[@Jewbear1884]

My thanks.

[@totalbeefcall579]

i didn't realize you could run him through with your blade with that technique

[@mattmanbrownbro]

The way those swords sound when you wind. Are they sharps?

[@DierkHagedorn]

In fact they are not. They are blunt swords by Pavel Moc.

[@DierkHagedorn]

@orcawne Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm afraid, you'll have to turn up the volume a bit.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Like in all fencing, there is not THE technique that works EVERY TIME. This particular technique works if the guy who winds has not done it good enough, i.e. lacking intent, speed, decision, or measure or a combination of these. If he does his winden properly, the defender may not pull this off. This is all about strength vs. weak: By counter-winding I gain leverage with my strong of the blade against his weak. You are right however that in winden you need to find the next opening.

[@Surielis]

And could those techniques be adapted by turning them into thrusts instead of cuts?

[@HamsterPants522]

I have a wooden longsword which reaches over 5 feet in length (just long enough to reach my armpit) and it often seems much larger than a normal longsword. Am I simple too tall? Were many longswords not designed for taller people? Or was it simply because they were easier to carry around if they were smaller?

[@DierkHagedorn]

Since I don't know where you live, I suggest to look up wiktenauer com, look out for "Community" on the left hand side and click "Global map" there.

[@SavageInsight]

Am I right to suggest that these swords were for defense and city and are not the two handed swords used on battlefields?

[@UrbanCohort]

It sure is, and certainly.

[@Jewbear1884]

Excuse me for asking, but could anyone tell me if there is a school for German fencing in Midwestern America? I am quite interested in learning this.

[@DierkHagedorn]

I don't quite get it: Techniques that require the long edge can be be used in messer quite efficiently, of course. Since the short edge is not or not entirely sharp, some techniques that include cuts or slices will not work.

[@UrbanCohort]

I'm kinda perusing your vids and I have a question - how would you recommend starting to learn the longsword? For all that I live in a fairly big city, there doesn't seem to be any 'formal' schools for the style around...

[@POPEPO71]

"Who endeavours the war above will be humilliated below. Learn to find stroke and thrust in every winding." what does this mean????? anyone can explain it to me?

[@DaUsher]

Pardon my asking, but do you know where I can find readily available sources on the fighting techniques with the Renaissance-era true two-handed swords? Thanks. And great channel!

[@DierkHagedorn]

So comparing some 70 + manuscripts in German to 5 in Italian must be tricky. Additionally, I would rather avoid the term "school". It's commonly used but a bit mis-leading. School suggests a relationship between master and apprentice. We know the name of Paulus Kal's master, everything else remains speculative. A "Fechtschul" (fencing school) in late medieval/early Renaissance Germany did not include instruction, it was rather a show and/or competition on a marketplace.

[@Surielis]

Ah ok, thank you! I did not know that.

[@MegaLordBane]

in short, wouldnt that mean dont always attack over the top, cuz he'll gut u below, and in every wind u get into u need to find and opening and press the advantage?

[@Daccio88]

hello everybody. who can tell me the difference between medieval german school fencing longsword and medieval italian school fencing longsword???? for example (fiore de liberi and Liechtenauer etc etc.... thanks

[@Surielis]

Also, can longsword techniques be used for a hand-and-a-half sword? Or is the handle not long enough for some of the binding techniques I have seen you display?

[@digitalurbantactics]

youll see me there well when i move to germany :)

[@DierkHagedorn]

Forte Swordplay, you say? Is this Jeff Tsay’s group? Will you please say hello to him and give my best regards.

[@Surielis]

Would the Kriegsmesser have been used with the same techniques or were there different ones? And is Peter Falkner his own figure, or is he tied to the Liechtenauer method?

[@NYWAORCANZ]

I will guess one clearly don't be so quick to pick a fight and two to learn all the vectors of attack.Lines and angles of attack winding??? could it mean in every movement of the blade or the arms causing wind to move? That is my guess

[@Shaitan00]

True two handed swords appeared much later and were used by specialized troops to defeat pike formations.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Well, if you happen to participate in judicial duels a lot, learning the longsword to survive surely is recommendable... But seriously: What are you aiming at? If you want to avoid trouble in a streetfight, I'd say: Avoid trouble. Running from a knife fighter is much wiser than to fight him. If you just want to stay fit and agile, any martial art (or sport) should suffice. Having learned medieval wrestlind for instance serves many purposes but it cannot guarantee to come out unharmed in a brawl.

[@amarimcdade7355]

is there a long sword team for kids

[@hm...5429]

no

[@hm...5429]

I have actually no idea but I think there isn't one. at least I wouldn't give a kid a longsword.

[@DierkHagedorn]

+Amari Mcdade That depends largely on where you live. There may be. But this may differ from club to club. We for instance only allow members once they are 18, but there are plenty of instructors who also teach children.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Since longsword and hand-and-a-half sword are commonly used as synonyms, I wouldn't see much difference there.

[@SavageInsight]

It's like there's three kinds of swords people call "two-handed" - long, "claymores" and a Renaissance infantry weapon that could not be used with only one hand.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Erm, in case your reply was meant for Mystninja, I sincerely apologize. I just re-arranged the threads by conversation and not by time.

[@DoggdianV]

You mean Hamburg? The Port-City in north germany? ( Don't know the word for hafenstadt)

[@BaanthVir]

He is referring to Ned Stark from Game of Thrones, although that was obviously a fake sword he is asking if there are any Claymores or Greatswords

[@HipposHateWater]

IMHO the fechtbucher are really just teaching one how to fight using universal principles, regardless of what kind of weapon you may find in your hand at the time. For zweihander/biddenhander stuff, most people just use it like a longsword, and adjust their game to work with the traits of the weapon in their hand. (if it's heavy in the tip, good for cutting and giving you extra "oomph" with binding and winding; lively tip, dance and twitch it around for thrusthappiness, etc.) Just my 2 cents :)

[@Halofreakanoid]

Yes, as is says "in reply to", that was meant for him, not you.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Yes, indeed. Why?

[@DierkHagedorn]

Sorry for the late reply. Your question cannot be answered in just 500 characters, it's far too complicated. There are several differences but also some similarities between the two systems. But then again, I would argue to call *all* medieval German fencing just *one* style. There were several ways we know of in German fencing, but we have only data from just one or two Italian fencers.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Honestly, I don't know what your question is about.

[@HamsterPants522]

I wasn't even being elitist, it just didn't make any sense to mention a fictional character. It'd be like if you went to a group of bow enthusiasts and asked if they had the bow of Legolas. It's just completely random and kinda seems like a joke. I love Game of Thrones, don't get me wrong, and they did try very hard to make the swords in the television show very convincing, but Ned's sword isn't really modeled after any historical design which means that it's probably not as good.

[@DierkHagedorn]

You are mixing up *a lot* of things here. 1) We're dealing with judicial duels here (or even fencing for pleasure/entertainment). We have a set of weapons the combatans have agreed upon. 2) Yes, plate armour makes you sweat. No, it was no disadvantage. 3) Vikings and the style of armour worn in the era of the fechtbücher we deal with (please watch my according Gladiatoria videos on this channel) are separated by roughly 500 years. And 500 years ago from now was what? The knight in armour, right.

[@ranpleasant]

The demonstration would be more realistic if they stood within a realistic distance. At 1:39 their blade would not even touch the other.

[@tuerkefechi]

I guess he means "Ice" the greatsword of Eddard Stark, Lord of Winterfell beheaded by King Geoffrey Baratheon, first of his name, which are charakters of the novels "A Song of Ice and Fire". So I think he means he wants to see something about greatswords aka bidenhaender or montante ;-)

[@DierkHagedorn]

Yes, I see. Again: Please acept my apology. I am embarrassed.

[@izarscharf7845]

sind sie deutsch?

[@DierkHagedorn]

Durchaus. Warum?

[@izarscharf7845]

wegen des accentes

[@000000AEA000000]

that shouldnt be good enough really. The Bidenhander or Zweihänder is likely needing another strategy, thats at least what my guts tell me. I dont think regular Langschwert drill would make a Two-Hander carrier survive against a quicker opponent. I guess it would rather put more goal on the force of the weapon and less "fencing" (because the weight difference would be hard to overcome)

[@Halofreakanoid]

Apology accepted. I understand what it's like to be harassed by the incompetents of the internet.

[@DierkHagedorn]

Dear Joe, please. Behave yourself. No need to swear and shout here. Meanwhile, with the help of other users, I looked up the sword in question. Although its proportions seem a bit odd to be really useful, I have seen far worse examples in movies or series. So, in order to get back to the initial question: The swords shown are okay in length. Depending on the timeframe you base your reconstruction on, they may vary in length though. 14th century swords might be shorter than 16th century ones.

[@HamsterPants522]

Ned Stark and his sword weren't real. The swords and techniques in this video are real.

[@spicydorito1]

It's not

[@Halofreakanoid]

Wiktenaur.

[@Mystninja]

Boring.