LoRa Meshtastic Range Test, Portable Relay & Your Questions - Off-Grid Communication

[@StripeyType]

Once more, for the people in the back: "on grid" or "off grid" terms have nothing to do with any particular feature or capability. These terms are used *solely* to describe whether or not a system is integrated with public infrastructure. Solar power? OFF GRID - not because you can't get lots of electricity from solar, but because you are literally not required to be connected to the electrical supply grid. WiFi in Infrastructure mode? ON GRID (with the caveat that we mean an AP connected to the internet) You're connected to infrastructure! it's in the freaking name! WiFi in ad-hoc mode? OFF GRID - devices communicate directly with one another without the need for a router RAIN BARREL FOR DRINKING WATER? OFF GRID City Water Supply? ON GRID Texting over LoRa? IT'S DECENTRALIZED AND REQUIRES NO INFRASTRUCTURE YOU ABSOLUTE WALNUT IT IS OFF GRID BY DEFINITION REGARDLESS OF YOUR WIDDLE FEEFEES ABOUT TEXTING. SMDH

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Well said. 👍

[@StripeyType]

@@HamRadioCrashCourse sorry for getting a little heated in your comments.

[@ultimatums1]

@@StripeyType salty much?

[@StripeyType]

@@ultimatums1 I'm O.G. sea salt. Like I know and lived through the sequence of global events that brought the term "salty" into common parlance for English-speaking civilians and was salty before *that*. I was, once upon a time, *professionally* salty. It was my job.

[@ultimatums1]

@@StripeyType at least you are willing to admit your childish behavior.

[@Meshtastic]

Lots of good questions answered here! Happy to colab if there are other questions.

[@BluestedSRT4]

Next test, use 3 T-Beams, one at your home, one in your car, and one on a drone. Drive out until out of range, then fly the drone up 4 or 500 ft and try again. Keep going until out of range.

[@audguy]

400 AGL is the celing for drones in the U.S. (if you want to be leagle) But, yes that would be awesome!

[@ChristopherScanlan88]

I was thinking of doing something like this (using drone as antenna base), but I would like to keep the drone tethered to the ground with a super light weight power cable to keep the drone up indefinitely. It would depend on if I could find a 300ft power cable that isn't too heavy for the drone and can still handle the power.

[@nickb9437]

Was thinking of trying the same thing please try this!

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

I was thinking of trying the same thing today- a DJI Mini should be able to lift a t-beam and 18650

[@JeffreyGordonTheTank]

@@ChristopherScanlan88 why not just use a ballon at that point?

[@alaingoyette7103]

Thank you Josh and awesome videos from a Ham perspective introduction to LoRa. Just to add on to the conversation, we use LoRa(WAN) as an extension to the limited WiFi range on the devices we build using arduino and Pi to communicate. Some use cases are alerting of wandering cows beyond a limited area on farms by putting proximity tags on cows, humidity and temperature sensing in far away greenhouses from main building, etc the sky is the limit as to what can be developed and has very low energy consumption and very reliable all things considered. Thanks again Josh for very eloquently introducing this technology as a supplement to the Ham comms space.

[@ricks4361]

Once again knocking it outta the park w this info. Intriguing concept. Got solar so I’m all in on this off grid comms. And this info is already 2 yrs old. The growth potential is amazing. Thanks again.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

I hope you saw my last live stream with some of the devs!

[@djk8541]

2 miles in a suburban environment seems pretty impressive for such a tiny little device. I live smack in the center of a roughly 4 mile by 4 mile town so I should be able to communicate from nearly anywhere in town except south of my home where the larger downtown buildings are located, and that's okay because no one goes there unless they're buying crack

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

It did three miles.

[@ancapftw9113]

Interesting, because Meshtastic would work well for secretly contacting your dealer.

[@djk8541]

@@ancapftw9113 My weed guy is like 200 feet away. I could place an order with cans and string lol

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

@@djk8541 🙄

[@user-jt5vm3mi1w]

whats the point though

[@frequencymanipulator]

* Grabs popcorn. I love this LoRa stuff right now for some reason.

[@veizour]

Thanks for answering questions, providing a channel suggestion, and running a test. This is great! Really appreciated. +1 upvote

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

I love that every time I find a new project to start, you’ve just made a video covering it in great detail. 73!

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Damn, am I that good?

[@elchainrash4569]

Great videos on LoRa. You use basic language to describe the way it works which is great for someone like me who would definitely be considered ’green’. Sometimes too much information just causes me to lose interest because I don’t understand the jargon but thankfully you kept it simple which I personally appreciate. I’m not into HAM but am interested in RC planes/FPV and will watch out for new developments in this field.

[@markmaker2488]

FYI the 3v3 is the 3 volt rail, the next is GND which is ground. Then serial data pin : SDA (default is GPIO 21) serial clock pin : SCL (default is GPIO 22)

[@W9HJBill]

In a future video can you PLEASE look into using LoRa and ATAK. I have 4 nodes incoming to me and can't wait to get them. I've already scoped out several high points to put nodes and 10W solar panels with 12Ah batteries to make them self contained. Having multiple ATAK devices using the mesh would be invaluable.

[@TheDieselbutterfly]

The atak device was destroyed....Roger Moore threw it over the mountainside in " for your eyes only "

[@Kiroley]

Let us know how you get on

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

I’m looking into the same, I was looking at building a “repeater” node into a micro pelican case with a small solar panel to place on a nearby mountain and use ATAK while hiking.

[@madbroindustries]

@@PrebleStreetRecords let me know if that works out for you. I am very interested.

[@tannhausergate9915]

Which band did you choose and how well is it working?

[@thomast8539]

Not being a HAM user, this is all good stuff Josh. Thanks for the breakdowns in both videos and any future videos as well. Very interesting tech.

[@CWGminer]

FYI Ham is not an acronym, it's just a slang term for amateur radio.

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

@@CWGminer High Antennas on Mountains. Horrible At Music. Happy to spend Any Money. 😁

[@LoneWolf0648]

a good way to put this is the lora device is acting like a modern version of CB radio... you can use anything with Bluetooth to access it (ancient laptop, super budget tablet, old smart phone... anything) a good use for this is in a power outage since everything needed can be run off solar and batteries so you can still talk to people. these can be strung together so for example, here he started having issues at 3miles from his home, if you have a friend the lives at 2.5 miles out and they have one, it can relay your signal so now you have closer to 5 miles in that direction... as more and more people get these devices they will slowly become a larger and larger network that is not tied to a company like cell phones and the internet. that youtuber with the world record also has a video showing how to make simple walkie talkies that us a mumble server, you can set up a mumble server on a raspberry pi and build your own private long range network.

[@johnwest7993]

I'm planning on just a wireless BLE keyboard to send the text to the LoRa transceiver. It uses far less energy than any of those other devices. The AA batteries in mine have run for 2 years, so far.

[@BenjaminHeyser]

Great video. Since your first video on this I've been thinking of possible uses for staff communications at scouting events. Almost everyone has a smartphone today, but cell service is spotty at a lot of scout camps, so this offers a way to use a texting like service where there's no or limited cell service. The no license part makes it much easier to use when the majority of the group aren't hams. I had thought of trying to use APRS in this situation, but LoRa really looks like a much easier to implement solution. With APRS you need an HT, TNC (assuming you didn't go with a higher end HT with it built in) and most often cables to connect. LoRa is much simpler, just the LoRa device and Bluetooth to the phone, tablet, iPad, etc.

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

That is a PERFECT use case. We're not trying to be super spies or talk around the world. Just trying to keep a bunch of kids alive. 😂

[@dissmani]

Another option would be that Motorola makes a FRS/GMRS radio that can send text and location data. They are like $50 each, and are also standard FRS radios so you can do voice. Not encrypted, but you shouldn't need that.

[@madbroindustries]

@@dissmani what model is that?

[@dissmani]

@@madbroindustries T800 series.

[@thehealthpolicychannel1229]

There are iPhone and android apps that you can download and will use wifi direct to communicate with each other. Range will obviously be less than lora

[@Siskiyous6]

The essence of Liberty, and the key to prosperity, is to provide our own infrastrukture - it is time to end the crony rent seeking going on over spectrum, this is the bright future we have to claw our way into.

[@ThingEngineer]

Now… GPS+RSSI+data logging+drive around for hours+google heat map. :) Great follow up video!

[@JeffLatimer]

I could see this being a very handy tool to use in a neighborhood if there was a grid down situation (hurricanes are a thing here in FL). You could at least check on your neighbors and make sure they are OK or their roof isn’t leaking or whatever…

[@NelsonReyesJr]

EXACTLY

[@Highlander.7]

this is badass. I think folks were genuinely confused about the fact it does not use wifi or cell service besides when you initially download the app.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Yep. That is right.

[@xtoorgaming3982]

this is perfect for SARs operations to give out location quickly where signal is less than ideal

[@mikerupe1642]

Perfect to bring wifi and messaging and voice to supressed people

[@WSallai]

I have the same view of its usefulness in such a situation. Also for disaster recovery where the infrastructure is damaged/destroyed (e.g., hurricane, tornado or earthquake).

[@jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj0]

Doing a large test with a similar set up here in the next week. Very excited 😊

[@jimlahey5354]

How'd it go?

[@markdupuis879]

Really cool stuff. Thank you Josh for yet another great and informative video.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Thank you!

[@don_n5skt]

I ordered a LORAWAN device and a couple of LORA devices just to see what this is about. Oddly, there is some crossover with Crypto currency and these things. Hmmmmm. Fascinating stuff.

[@JamesNearn]

I suspect you quickly discovered Helium mining?

[@jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj0]

YES! Finally this community is growing!

[@jonathanleclerc2788]

You mean blockchain?

[@cam_DA_Hawkdriver]

I’ve got two and just soldered them up before watching this video. Your answers on the iPhone app was very helpful. Thanks!

[@0megaJB]

Thanks for doing these videos, I'm really interested in a LoRa network for a very rural area where cell service is very limited and not having to rely on radios for communications. The weatherproof box with a solar pannel looks very promising. I just wish these components are easier to find from US based sellers.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

They're never going to be common thru US sellers. They're made in China and open source so it's Shenzen, China. Just choose an AliExpress seller with a +95% rating and wait a month.

[@zephsmith3499]

For long range, remember that the data rate is slow!

[@Ronl53]

Great video. I hope that everyone appreciates the effort you go to to make these videos. Well done.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Thank you!

[@awesomedee5421]

Duct Tape solves everything. Regarding the question about encryption, In LoRaWAN, AES256 is the encryption for both signing/authentication from end node to network layer and encode/decode from end node to application layer. That is considered very strong encryption. It seems to have been implemented in either Meshtastic/RadioHead by someone who wasn't confident on his implementation of the AES256, so if you need ultra-secure, you might want to look over the implementation. But I'm sure the NSA could break it. They don't tell you, else they'd have to kill you.

[@groberts1980]

I definitely like the idea of LoRa. Especially being able to package this up in a waterproof box with a solar charger. I live in Albuquerque and we have mountains right near us. I'm wondering if I could place a setup on the mountain which has line of sight to the entire city and use the mountain peak like a repeater for other Lora boxes.

[@PreparedOverlander]

Yes you can. It would be a relay station instead of a repeater. You can bury the box with the LoRa device to keep it out of the sun, run a longer wire to an antenna in a tree, that would help to overcome any other obstacles in the way.

[@joaquinoro6082]

Did you ever get it up and running ? L

[@kmemz]

I just got some Heltec V3s this weekend, did my first range test purposely ignoring Line of Sight by leaving one node next to my bed in my metal walled house, and taking the other with me. On the Long Slow channel, I managed almost exactly one mile of range with the constraints I had set, I went out to 1.1 miles and lost communication with the home node. For a pair of 1 Watt devices, Even though I was using Long Slow to give it the best chance, that's still some absolutely fantastic range given the handicaps I set up. I would love to have myself a solar powered repeater mounted on a decent size pole, that might actually reach where I work if I'm lucky. I'm hoping I can build interest in my area; even if we never get another Helene in our lifetimes, a good unlicensed radio option would still be useful for the future.

[@Michael-im1vc]

I'm still in the learning/ info gathering stage. This was quite helpful, thanks! 👍🏻

[@k9gcpradio424]

Many ham radio videos encourage me to buy more gear, now I have to buy some acreage to create a use case for LoRa.

[@mattheweburns]

I always thought I was absolutely terrible at soldering, who needs that flux junk anyway… Well when I realized what happens when you use flux it was like magic! I did the exact same routine as when I failed many times previously, but using the flux it just worked like magic

[@m14v81]

I was about to comment range on the first video then I saw this link. 😁 Freaking awsome. Definitely answered all my questions.

[@esrevinu.]

excellent videos,... The Last Ship, tv show on TnT, had a storyline where people were communicating using exactly this type of "service",... cool stuff to learn about. Could come in handy if shtf lol.

[@dukeofcrude5742]

Great video! I have some T beams on order and am super excited to try them out. I’ve got a hunt on the north slope of Alaska planned for 2022 and hope to use them there.

[@AKBUTCHER0]

How you gunna use this tech for that? Seems like you should just get a in reach

[@JustifyJustin]

So in essence, Lora devices are low powered wifi repeaters for a closed off network and you use a special app as your messenger to communicate between devices attached to the access points?

[@jdsr7423]

Just found your channel and liking it thanks for your efforts sir. Maybe a differently worded answer for "Bob" would be to just say you're off primary grid's and operating your own private local communications grid. Maybe some kind of translation issues or something that's losing the point that the phrase "Off Grid" isn't so much no grid as it is completely independent and isolated grid. If you're in an "off grid" home with solar, wind or even standard generator and powering the home and a separate workshop and or a water well you're on an electrical grid of your own creation, same goes for water etc etc😉

[@AaronAlso]

Pro tip: If you really need electronics to be waterproof, remove the board, mask off any ports or jumpers, ect and spray the whole thing down with silicone conformal coating. There are some caveats, you won't have easy access to the components again. In areas where the coating is thicker there will be more heat build up.

[@s9josh778]

I removed the board. What do I do with the all these tiny pieces now? :D

[@presidentelectjerryodom3889]

So I've been tested these for quite some time, so one thing I noticed is even know that the cross says that it didn't deliver the message when I look on my receiving phone at home base the message was delivered. I was told by one of the developers that you can't always trust the delivery mechanism.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Yes! That was what happened in my case. The three mile message went through!

[@presidentelectjerryodom3889]

@@HamRadioCrashCourse obviously the downside of that is that if you're do have an emergency situation you don't know if the people on the other side of the emergency got your message or not, however we put in place a simple simple response to confirm the message was received.

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

@@presidentelectjerryodom3889 that's called The Hostile Valley Problem. Lots of academics have worked on it.

[@coreyjohnson6002]

@@presidentelectjerryodom3889 if they did receive your message whether you knew or not, the chances of their message returning to you would be good, wouldn't it?

[@Johnny-iy8bj]

Great information, thanks. Although I don't understand everything yet I feel this technology has a great future.

[@ajdu5390]

Thank you for these videos. I have no experience in radio/ lora comms, but am interested in trying it out now!!

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Nice! Give it a go!

[@ashisroy101]

Controlling home appliances with this is the best project.

[@WaschyNumber1]

Thank you for clarification 👍🖖

[@TommyJordan]

Going through all your videos. Great stuff. Thanks for taking the time to share. One question - Where did you get your project clamp/vise? I'd love one like that for some of the small work I do.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

It’s a cheap PCB vice off Amazon.

[@thehumblefactory]

"This is not a permanent solution, obviously :)..." aside at 4:15 earned my sub. I love me a "good enough" DIY project. Keep em coming!

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Hah. Thanks!

[@PyrateRumRunner]

A couple of questions: 1. Can more than one phone / tablet connect to one LoRa device at a time? 2. I’m guessing if someone sends a message from device A out to and device B isn’t connected, that message is “lost”. So best to check if anyone is “listening” before sending a detailed message. Is that correct? 3. If I have three LoRa units and three devices connected and one device broadcasts a message, the other two will receive it? (Party line essentially) 4. Any channel changing option so a couple people can communicate directly and keep the primary channel / frequency open? I’m trying to see how we can use this in a remote community so appreciate all the info and help! Thanks!

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

I believe more than one phone or tablet could be used for one LoRa device but not at the same time. LoRa devices will give mesh status for those they hear but the don’t denote of a phone or tablet is connected so messages could be lost. It works like a party line, yes. You could have three LoRa nodes connected to three different networks and jump between them with one phone.

[@SoapinTrucker]

People, a cell phone/smartphone has various RADIOS! THAT is where this LoRa Meshtastic shines, it uses the Bluetooth Radio, or the Wi-Fi radio, which are both totally independent of a CELL PHONE RADIO, and/or the service provider! :)

[@MrBalinSuperTV]

Amazing detail! I appreciate you.

[@mikiemojo]

Funny. First thing that came to mind when you said "off grid" was exactly what you described. The haters are actually "off balance."

[@markusk4959]

Great Video. One question, just to make sure I got this right. Every T beam works as a repeater for others, too. If I place one on my roof I could use this for my network but it would also improve the network for others by working as a relay station? And how many relays in a row can be used? Is there any limitation? Thanks and best regards from Germany.

[@mikeofborg2]

I am a ham myself (W8MLD), and I find these fascinating. I may give this a shot. I wonder if they can use tropo or are the frequencies too high? Plus being spread spectrum I guess it might not work all that well. I will check Andrias’ video for more information. Thanks

[@monitanator]

Any recommendations on antenna upgrades for this device??

[@5roundsrapid263]

I’d put one in a tethered helium balloon (non-metallic, obviously). You could raise and lower it for the best signal.

[@borriskarlov8140]

"line-of-sight" explanation could use a bit of revamp. (wavelength vs physical composition/geometry in path. Antennae directivity, etc.) Might be another video. Great Job !!

[@KillerSpud]

I ordered a couple to use as a dog tracker. I was thinking of using aprs, but this looks a little easier, cheaper, and more secure to do.

[@WSallai]

Mount it in a plastic barrel attached to its collar like cartoon Saint Bernard!

[@technik3r]

Great content ! Would like to see how to combine LoRa with Raspberry Pi / Compute Module.

[@lonewolf2017]

Hello Josh new to the Ham world and learning from your videos. Does the antenna on these LoRa devices factor into the distance? It uses SMA so it could be swapped out for a different antenna.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Yes and yes. There are better antennas for these. But at higher frequencies keep the feed lines very short.

[@lonewolf2017]

@@HamRadioCrashCourse thank you. I have been curious about this system for a while. Thanks for putting the information out there in a user friendly format. Helps those of us who are just getting into radio.

[@6345788]

Great explanation of the grid 👍

[@esquire9445]

What’s the best simple way to communicate with a family member in another state during a grid down situation?

[@threeqtrthrottle]

Food for thought: The European band for this LoRa device is 433 mhz. Here in the states, that's inside our 70cm amateur band (420-450mhz). Why then, other than the technicality about encryption, couldn't we use that device into a repeater or an amplifier? As I see it, it's a data signal, so why not?

[@rty44551]

Do we know how many jumps meshtastic can make? Say I in theory had 1000 of these could a message be sent in a chain them from 1-1000th device

[@loravannortwick1347]

Never heard of this before but for some reason I feel like I should be an expert at it…

[@engineclinic]

😂🤣

[@USAFWolf]

Great guide, thanks a ton for this!

[@markplain2555]

Excellent - is it possible to connect a much bigger screen. Perhaps even additional power to the screen.

[@DarienDrakee]

Is there a way to increase the output wattage, you mentioned in the video it was 1 watt, is there a way to get that to 5 watts ? I understand it's only line of sight and would only benefit in that situation.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

We’re antenna is the better way to go.

[@MarauderCustomWorks]

To revive an old video, just got 8.7 miles out of our t-beams last night. No relay nodes, just the 2 nodes that my buddy and i had

[@mattfleming86]

Thanks for dealing with us LoRa novices. Just ignore the trolls. Don't waste the brain cells on them, you do good things with yours :-)

[@digitaldreamer5481]

Josh, I was wondering, is there a number of words limit for each text message you send? I’m the net controller for the Skywarn Program for the National Weather Service office at the University of Hawaii-Manoa Campus here in Honolulu but at the same time, due to Covid19 restrictions, I’m asked to operate from home during hurricane season last year and this year. I have line to sight to the NWS office, it seems that I could relay messages directly to that office from my high rise condo. Is it possible to incorporate a wall wort instead of a 18650 battery in their office for this device? I suppose I would need to know how many volts and amps that would be required. Please advise. 🤞🏻

[@djk8541]

I can't find a how to but I have seen people build them as base stations with no battery or gps and powered by USB

[@scottwood1143]

You have the patience of Jobe my friend 😁 Fun stuff!

[@yandan8]

Hi Josh. Really appreciate your out and about driving tests. Adds a lot of practical information. LoRa T-beam seems to be a “do it yourself Gotenna”?

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Thanks! Yes. It’s a diy goTenna with greater functionality though.

[@thomast8539]

With the current supply chain issues from China, how likely are we to see these devices get shipped and received in the US? Or do they deliver stuff like this via aircraft instead of container ship? Seems to me that anything from overseas is gonna be a real problem to get right now.

[@agmsmith4079]

I just wanted to ask, each LoRa device has a 2~2.5mi range in the city. BUT!!! They can leapfrog a message across them correct? So if you had one 2mi away (at a neighbor’s house), and then one at 4 mi away (at a second neighbor’s house) and then one 6 mi away (at maybe an office) and each was 2 mi away from the next one, the home device could send/receive messages to the device at the office through the other two LoRas, correct?

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Thats right!

[@NathanMazanec]

Josh, thanks for the demo and the little bit different video. I am not 100% understanding this, but I plan to go back to the other video you did to see what this is all about. De K1MAZ

[@Dusty_Ham]

4:06 "This is not a permanent solution" Are we taking bets on how long this "not permanent" solution is in use :D

[@nedshead5906]

There's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution

[@awesomedee5421]

I have a question if you think that this could be used in the woods to create a connection back to your vehicle's mobile radio by dropping a line of Meshtastic nodes along your trail just in case you need to write an emergency "help, I've fallen and I can't get up" message or for forestry firefighters to extend their range to send info back to their command center. I'm wondering if the "line of sight" could tolerate a few trees in the way. Are you in the mood to go for a hike? I'd be interested in some test results.

[@TheEmeraldNight]

Looking at using this camping. What antenna would you recommend for at Camp, on 4x4 and in backpack? With battery, can you install a larger one to last say a week out bush or do you think the addition of a solar panel would be better? Thanks From Australia

[@ingmarm8858]

G'day at 12:24 you say that is a frequency hopping spread spectrum system. LoRa modulation is a spread spectrum like technology in that the transmission is swept across the channel bandwidth. This give it a unique appearance in a waterfall display. LoRa and as far as I can see Meshtastics implementation does not use frequency hopping. I'm new to Meshtastic but as far as I've seen the frequency is determined when the "channel" is created isn't it? I heard that there was a massive crash of devices at defcon this year when a bunch of nodes started up :-)

[@NatorDM]

I'm sorry I have literally zero experience with this stuff, but this is really cool and I'm really getting into it but I just wanted to be sure... So theoretically I could have hundreds or thousands of these things spread out between my house, families houses (with their permission of course) not connected to wifi but on solar panels and batteries and barring any obstacles I can text send gps data... I'm curious as to the future and phone calls or sending images... for instance would having a strong or multiple systems right next to each other be able to send images or do phone calls? Also are there other devices that are LoRA but can handle more connections? Or are all of these devices really small. Again I'm just curious... and I have no effing idea lol. Thanks!

[@kentjordan4123]

Could you use a better/bigger antenna on the LoRa device? Could you use a longer feed line from the LoRa device to the antenna? I would like to use a LoRa device network at my farm. Thought I would put a device at the farmhouse with a high gain antenna on a mast. Thanks Josh! I really enjoy your content!

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

You don't really want a better antenna, you want an antenna that is perfectly tuned for 915MHz. Also, you want NO feedline is possible that frequency, any bit of feedline is adding line loss reducing your devices power output over the air.

[@84swoodworth]

Where did you get the batteries from do you have a link? Trying to fine some good ones

[@richard_wenner]

It's not entirely correct to say that the range of LoRa is line of sight. LoRa is a modulation technique that may be applied to any radio signal. It's generally the power level and operating frequency in the (RF) environment that determines range. Having said that it is the adoption of LoRa that provides your signal with additional performance benefits and these can be really impressive. Amongst other things i) LoRa allows the trade-off between data rate and range ii) LoRa can operate below the noise floor - providing incredible margins and iii) being a spread spectrum technology it can operate in a shared frequency range. (There are others but my pedantic meter needle has just wrapped itself around the end stop) :)

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

That’s interesting and yes, I see what you’re saying. Going to have to look into LoRa over hf soon. 😅

[@richard_wenner]

@@HamRadioCrashCourse As soon as I submitted that, I thought about the very wide modulation bandwidth compared to the carrier frequency. There are the legal restrictions of course but it could be that you could get away with a very low carrier power so that it is well below the noise floor (only you know it's there) :) But come on the Russian got away with 'The Woodpecker' for years. Go for it! :)

[@nighthawk1079]

There’s a lot of value in using this as a primary form of comm for a local group in a grid down scenario as it has some level of encryption. Then switch over to VHF voice if this UHF method cannot reach the distant end.

[@AD6DMDennis]

Master soldering dexterity 👌

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Thanks!!

[@joeglennaz]

Hello, thank you for this. Great video and Laura. Many other links you listed don’t work though. Can you update them?

[@wtmayhew]

Plastic is a dielectric material and can have mild to significant affect antenna characteristics depending on the plastic type.

[@HeSavesMankind]

Can you go from node to node to node to node to node to extend range even further without having androids in the middle devices, or does each node require an android device?

[@billbolen8115]

Awesome, as always!

[@AndrewHall08]

Since it has a detachable antenna, rather than mounting the entire module on the roof would it not beneficial to mount an antenna on the roof and run the coax into the house just like you would a radio antenna? And on that note, have you come up with antenna solutions for a vehicle so that you could have one full time in a vehicle?

[@tjjavery]

Just patiently waiting for the t-echos to be back in stock

[@oliverpolden]

I can’t remember the formula for power attenuation but I’m pretty sure it includes a square of the distance, a cube if it’s a spherical signal. So it would have been better to start at say 1k, then 2k then 2.5k then 2.75k etc

[@teachusmore]

Can you elaborate a commercial approach to increase the range with power attenuation

[@oliverpolden]

@@teachusmore that so not really what I was talking about. I was talking about how the signal power doesn’t degrade linearly with distance. However that does suggest an answer and that is to get the signal is linear as possible and that will depend on the antennas used. You would want possibly a helical or parabolic antenna but the problem you have then is that you then need to have them pointed in the right direction. The commercial approach is in the name “mesh”: simply add more nodes.

[@cxsey8587]

You should check out the Recticulum network, similar concept and has some cool features regarding encryption and protocols.

[@dougfields23]

can different users utilize the mesh network or do these things only work within their scope or body of local users?

[@rangewatson4971]

I would encourage folks to try this stuff out and the meshtastic team is pretty darn cool, but know that this not at all ready for prime time. I am a techie with some serious professional experience in related fields, but I feel like I have falling down a rabbit hole trying to get this set up and ready for my community, I do not think it is going to happen. Update: The things go to sleep and wake up randomly, I am seeing so many issues and feeling overwhelmed with just how far from complete this project is. It is all being created in folks free time, so I get it, but just don't prop these things up before they are ready, cause this is not at all ready! :(

[@Scout339th]

Im curious like with FPV that you can improve the versatility by adding a left handed or right handed polarized antenna to all of your nodes if they would become more robust?

[@Sameer2762]

I just wanted to know about encryption, thank you for clearing. Regards

[@clownolie]

What i think would make this a truly perfect "off grid" type of device would be if there was some way to connect to it, and it automatically give you a link to an "offline" locally stored version of the app. or ability to use a web browser so anyone could connect to it that wasnt before and have the ability to use it. it would be something great to have in a "all comms" (aka cell\internet) down scenario . im sure it wouldnt take much processing power or space on the ROM to have a mini web-server built in to it. but its a cool start to something.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

The device has a web landing page and can be hooked up to your wifi. I just haven’t made that video yet. 🤣

[@animoshho]

So if you dont have the app how will the device send you a message with a link?

[@kb9sxc]

Just curious - you used an plastic box, why would you bother bringing the antenna outside of the box?

[@echo1er]

Has there been any updated videos of this?

[@ke8mattj]

Thank you for doing the range test. I'm still concerned with the application I want to do it for, since the homes we want to link, one of them is deep in the valley. Even though it is only one mile away, there's lots of vegetation and rocky terrain between these two points. So I don't think LoRA will work. It would be better if they just wasn't scared of taking the Tech. license since I can reach there with just my HT's, but it is what it is. FRS won't reach. It might just be GMRS then.

[@dongreeard.greearmw477]

A MURS radio would probably work well for your terrain, much better than FRS. I use the Retevis RT21V with a Nagoya 771 antenna.

[@arjovenzia]

this is an ideal use case for a mesh network. another node at the top of the valley could be used as a repeater. a camo case and a solar panel, nail it to a tree or something. they are cheap enough you could spread a couple around to really get some coverage.

[@D3M3NT3Dstrang3r]

@@arjovenzia came to say exactly this, thats the beauty of mesh. You can go as far as you would like depending on what you wish to spend on your own infrastructure.

[@furonwarrior]

What makes the 33cm band license free? Shouldn’t the antenna be permanently mounted?

[@markaphillips14]

What kind of lag time between message sent to message received? I’d be curious to see how this would do in a camping/hunting situation. Thanks for all the info.

[@HamRadioCrashCourse]

Seconds to a few minutes. But that depends on if your node is sleeping or awake.