Hand Traps became the villain of Yugioh's Design

[@geek593]

Single point of interaction hand traps are healthy in a game where all archetypal engines go plus and cascade card advantage by design. The problem is Konami decided ten years ago that card advantage was no longer a fun balancer and instead moved to OPTs as a balancer thinking people would enjoy the Infernity/Windup/Inzektor gameplay as long as turns would eventually end. They were wrong.

[@thelaughingdragon32]

I would like for people to slowly break the board in weird ways with back and forth instead of just preventing my opponent from doing everything.

[@David-hw9si]

people mad when they can't play, but also mad when their opponent can play

[@tuavaresm]

Thank you. Facts.

[@scott898586]

They only hate the cards when they are used against them, not when they use them against others or when they are doing the exact same thing with different cards.

[@mageside]

People also get mad when the game is played as intended

[@HotRed00]

The worst kind of players the ones that get salty when you somehow manage to play around 3 hand traps and still make a board

[@ozm0zesjoe466]

Its thanks to bad card design. They want these cards to go off on stupid ass shit

[@BanditGaming479]

Hand traps were designed to counter plays normally uncounterable. Veiler on a strong monster effect that could steal the game for example. Maxx C was originally used to stop your opponent from a big push that would put them in a winning position. Now days every deck tries to make that big push turn one so we need more cards to punish that turn 1 push.

[@PunchM3]

The main reason why I loved TOSS format, hand traps felt impactful yet not killing a deck by resolving them.

[@amaurilol2]

​@@TheGreatPewpyOneDepending on which stage of TOSS people were playing as little as 6 hand traps. You could play more if you wanted, but it wasn't "mandatory" to play 12 - 15.

[@TheDangleberries]

​@@TheGreatPewpyOneThis is bs, 3xAsh, 3x Imperm, and MAYBE 3x Crow were played. And everyone ran Twisters as disruption came from the backrow as it should be.

[@TheRealJohnux]

TOSS Format also had called by at 3. And ghost mansion also Released in that time period.

[@jangaman7823]

You mean back when 1 single ash stopped non meta decks turn?

[@TeamAPS]

Yeah I agree. I just think Konami needs to make a concerted effort to bring down the power level of the game alongside balancing hand traps. Between 1-card combos in hyper consistent decks, lean engines that are completely self-sustaining, and powerful end boards, we're at this impossible crossroads. Yubel, Snake-Eyes, and even most Tier 2 decks can push through one or two hand traps like it's nothing, so it sometimes feels like Droll or Shifter are the only real option for shutting them down. Alternatively, if you DON'T shut them down, they'll completely run you over in a windfall of raw card advantage and board states. I'm all for banning the lingering hand traps if we also can shave off the power level of the average deck. I don't envy Konami's position here.

[@theniteowl7007]

you say that now, but there are a flood of junky archetypes that get released in each set, that nobody even touches. imagine if yugioh were only junky archetypes. it would be boring.

[@quinkelly1441]

I seen people brick with 5 hand traps no starters cards

[@Harrowing999]

Hi I’m People 😂

[@186Soup]

​@Harrowing999 me too buddy me too😂

[@TheMrNickP]

Is it really bricking if your opponent isn’t getting a turn either

[@scott898586]

Hand traps have existed since the printing of Kuriboh. Power creep without rotation is how we got here. Konami used the F/L to push product over the health of the game while not putting a ceiling on how strong cards can be. Maybe to try and prevent everything from just being a copy paste, but that is where we ended up anyways. Now everything new is getting a poplar, a stratos, an in archetype E-Call, a Shadoll fusion for fusion decks, link material from the hand, XYZ monsters that ignore their inherent mechanic, ect... We are now just at the point that we don't have individual turns anymore except on turn 1. After that turns are practically just shared at this point.

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

When a counter is printed, the next step is Konami to make a card that counters the counter. It’s a problem they created and is more nuanced than “hand traps bad”.

[@mrkizu]

We just need hand traps with different types of interruptions instead imo... less locking out/negates/maxxc 🤨, and more bouncing /destruction/booking etc.

[@zyroberk]

so worse runick cards for everyone?

[@thegreatbananza5277]

Yes

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

They’d have to be good enough to bypass a lot of protections. The game currently stands as interruption or board breaking. With the end goal being to win as fast as possible.

[@r3zaful]

Konami has decided that the only way to make turn 1 less oppressive is punishing every summon you had, and they arent going to go back from this, this is your turning point if you still want to play yugioh or not.

[@dariuspenner2528]

@ chazzitz-wh4ly That’s not even true though. Just pretending Book of Moon is a hand trap, I book the Flamberge you bring back off Promethean Princess and your end board now lacks IP access since you were going to use that Flamberge to put it in your backrow. You now end on what, the Salad link 4 to break the Princess lock with a Princess in grave? Even if you have Fiendsmith access, unless you hard make something like Dies Irae before committing to SE stuff (which hard loses to Nibiru since Dies Irae can’t negate that), the Book of Moon resolves and the end board becomes pretty terrible. The even funnier thing is in this scenario with just SE access, you end on just the link 4 and a set Flamberge. Princess if activated would have to target the face up fire link 4 so you wouldn’t even be able to trigger Flamberge on your own. Book of Moon with something like the Gamma clause to be usable as a hand trap would actually be incredible. There isn’t that much with targeting protection that’s played anymore. Off the top of my head I can only really think of Voiceless Voice and Tenpai if Sangen Summoning goes off.

[@archiehardison1431]

Print foil volcanic scattershot

[@badkyat4life]

Why is it taking so long for them to do that??? Should have been an OTS super years ago!!!

[@IAngelofFuryI]

Hiya Archie

[@alexanderspassov4759]

Its 1 card combos that are the problem that end up going +10 and spamming the field with powerful monsters and disruptions. When a combo from 1 card leads to essentially an ftk you have to throw evrything you can at it to stop it. The other design space problem is that handtraps can still be utilized going 1st as trap cards from the hand which is an extremly hard to place to interact with and really leaves no room for boardbreakers. Boardbreakers havent been good in a long time bc of handtraps. Like great youve activated DRNM, now play through 1-3 handtraps still sitting in your opponents hand while trying to clear their board of monsters so that they dont otk you. if you opt for handtraps for going 2nd it becomes a game of who's engine is better. Youre trading handtraps backnforth, one for one, and its up to whoever draws their starter 1st after the other player has wasted their handtraps. This leaves ZERO space for non meta decks that cant generate as much advantage through a single card/draw and is why the game is becoming/IS a handtrap simulator.

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

The game is inherently broken. I think something to help alleviate the issue is set rotations. It forces older generic cards out of the format and encourage new lines of play and thinking.

[@alexanderspassov4759]

@@chazzitz-wh4ly I think so too. Maybe every 5 years? People who complain about rotation don't realize that all the old cards get rotated out anyways by power creep. And it's so rare that 1 new archetype or a couple of generic cards is good enough to bring an old deck into the limelight. Keeps old broken cards out of the format. Konami could keep certain staple cards always in rotation by just reprinting them. Basically for a rotation have any cards that's been printed in the product the past 5 years be relevant. Still keep a banlist but that resets every time there is a rotation.

[@shien-ryu4395]

Finally a sensible comment. For some reason most people refuse to see that most handtraps are a poorly designed band-aid that is fueling degenerate 1 card combos even more. Like you realise that your opponent is gonna Ash blossom you as well during going second after he establish a board on top of that right? They can only see this with Maxx "C", maybe because it's the most obvious one I guess. It's true, they don't support going second very well. But if they do, it's completely based on a precentance change, no skill involved OR your opponent is playing non meta and can't afford playing with or around 12-18 handtraps, which indicates that only the 2-3% of all decks in game can actually compete against each other. Konami should move away from this design ASAP

[@alexanderspassov4759]

@@shien-ryu4395 The Mulcharmy cards are a great step in the right direction imo bc of that text that says "while you control no monsters". They are good into the right decks going 2nd but are almost completely dead in your hand going 1st.

[@shien-ryu4395]

@@alexanderspassov4759 This part is my favorite and I think all handtraps should had this. But I don't like the effect. A lingering draw effect for summons should not exist in a form of a turn 0 handtrap period. A worst Maxx "C" for turn 0 is still pretty unhealthy imo

[@xxphantomthief94xx]

Engines are too small these days, when Konami has compressed the roles that cards performed and concentrated so much power in individual cards that engines that would be 25-30 cards 2 years ago fit into 15-20. When you have all that extra space, what do you fill it with? Non-engine, and what’s the most versatile non engine that’s usable 1st or second? Handtraps. And then the arms race begins. It also doesn’t help that the boards that are being put up can’t be broken by the same deck going second, so you’re only remedy is to stop your opponent setting up in the first place

[@Junglewarfare]

Modern yugioh and the way its played with hand traps completely isolates anyone who played the game pre-2016. Activating 2-4 hand traps on your opponents turn is just not a good game loop.

[@ZykTheMage]

Hand traps are necessary as long as there are cards that can just lock you out of playing. That said, if the format is so toxic it comes down to a simple coin flip, then it's a format I'm not playing. Period

[@Weaselthebassist]

Floodgate handtraps like shifter are not necessary though as they also lock people out of playing, they can get banned and stay there.

[@ZykTheMage]

@@Weaselthebassist not as long as decks like Snake Eye exist. Snake eye Fiendsmith can play through 4-5 interruptions and still build a board. As long as that is the case, nuclear responses like shifter are necessary. Just build your deck around it, or incorporate counters.

[@junglezone7323]

​@ZykTheMage if this was droll I'd somewhat agree, but certain decks literally cannot do their plays if shifter is activated

[@ZykTheMage]

@junglezone7323 shifter only sees play if the main meta decks are those kind of decks. I have no sympathy for tearlament or snake eye. Hell, my tri-brigade deck dies to it but I still say it's healthy.

[@David-hw9si]

@@ZykTheMage 95% of casual decks out there auto lose to shifter. If those decks are not relevant to be considered, then your non SEFS/Tenpai/Yubel don't need Shifter as a crutch because it is also irrelevant without Shifter. Those high power decks do not justify Shifter just because you enjoy playing a deck that benefit or doesn't get hurt as bad by Shifter.

[@elcalich33sehead]

Hand traps are a problem now because of how slim deck cores have become. You can play with a hand full of hand traps and a Snake-Eye Ash, which was not how the game’s supposed to be played when those cards were printed.

[@CodyTheDragonSamurai]

#HandTrapsSucks

[@Dillermans]

I think they should raise starting life points in current format (while continuing to trim the scope of hand traps) - higher ceiling gives games more runway

[@_thebigsteve]

Its getting to the point with how many handtraps there are that I think decks will either have to be designed to play around over half of them, or more cards like gamma have to be made or come back to help combat the situation. I think there is a place for some handtraps especially in tier zero formats but it's absolutely ridiculous when people are playing half their deck as handtraps. I think there should be an equivalent to dark ruler you can activate after a hand trap has been activated that shuts off grave and hand effects for the turn.

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

I think that is the next logical step. If a monster effect or card effect is activated from hand you can negate and banish/destroy that card and cards of that name can’t be activated the rest of the turn.

[@shiredude87]

Hand traps as a concept aren't the issue, the lack of restrictions/ conditions on their use is what's caused the issue, most of them are just either too easy to drop with very few drawbacks.

[@scott898586]

Everything being too generic have been a problem since like 2012.

[@Maestro..]

Yu-Gi-Oh is so impenetrable now, but it could have been prevented. They didn't have to print cards like Spright, Tearlament, Ishizu & Kashtira only to mass ban them later, but they did. You could see the unbelievable powercreep as it happened, and it was completely unnecessary. But there's no going back unless you ban most decks from the last three years. One card combos were the beginning of the end and it's not even close

[@scott898586]

You would have to ban cards probably as far back as 2017. First spiral tier 0 format would be a good starting point.

[@zyroberk]

@@scott898586 nah, you need to look back at 5D's era. the basis of modern design was birthed there, it just took a while to konami to fully embrace it.

[@geek593]

@@scott898586 It would have to go back to pre-Duelist Alliance with the outliers bumped off. Duelist Alliance is where free engine advantage really set in.

[@lonelyfire27]

​@@zyroberkI'd argue it'll be from Mid-Late Gx era where they introduced the modern era card designs.

[@shien-ryu4395]

At least we get to draw 3 cards right?

[@sanketower]

The only reason people play 15-18 handtraps is because 1-card-combos (1cc) are so prevalent in the game. In no world would you risk opening 3 handtraps going 1st if you needed the other 1.5-2 cards to combo. Today's 1cc are so consistent, explosive, and filled with back-up plans that it's worth it to just throw your entire hand at your opponent hoping that they won't have enough extenders. Handtraps give the perfect amount of interaction when ran at 9-12 and only seeing 1-2 in your opening hand going 2nd. We need that interaction, otherwise we become fricking Pokémon.

[@CoreyskillaHoN]

Hey Tombox, I'd be really interested in a rulings video specific to the battle phase! After seeing that one feature on the NAWCQ where the tenpai player attacked with that samurai synchro that didn't allow the opponent to interact for so many actions, got me more interested in the niche interactions and how they work with the Battlephase, cheers!

[@Robert96902]

I got one of my friends into yugioh and initially whenever we played we wouldn’t include handtraps in our decks cuz I thought maybe he’d get discouraged and wouldn’t enjoy playing against handtraps but soon we realized that whoever went first was always able to win the duel unless they bricked 😂 so I had to explain the whole mechanic of handtraps to make it fair 🤷‍♂️

[@Tobiii88]

This is annoying af. Its not about broken hand traps or broken combo decks. The REAL PROBLEM of yugioh is that they started to print cards that have 2-4 effects within one card, like fiendsmith Engraver. THAT is the issue. Hand traps wouldnt be a thing if they didnt make cards that have 3 effects in 1 .

[@23jewfan]

This exactly. Bump this up!

[@aiyayayagenshin6098]

Both, handtraps is a contributor to why the game is in such a state now. But its also a symptom of the main problems. One card combos (which theres now wayyy too many of) and extreme artifical rarity (which the OCG tries to minimise but the TCG abuses)

[@kristian7160]

The problem has always been how consistent decks are. Previously, you could let an opponent play their first turn, and then respond accordingly. When you design decks that *will* make an unbreakable board turn 1, guaranteed, you need to give the opponent a tool that stops them or it’s simply not a game anymore. You’re just playing with an open deck and showing your little rehearsed and recycled scripts with the occasional interaction and thought.

[@CrispyBLT-]

I think hand traps should affect both players and they can only activated under certain conditions. It allows them to be balanced. Also makes you build your deck a certain way.

[@shidfard4563]

Yea kinda like how D Shifter can only be activated if you have no cards in your GY and it affects both players, meaning you have to build your deck in a way that it doesnt lose to shifter right?

[@CrispyBLT-]

@@shidfard4563 also like the new Dominus cards as they lock you out of certain attributes.

[@RayMon504]

shifter affecting both players was absolutely a step in the right direction......it's just that most decks like to abuse the graveyard as a second resource and therefore shifter became toxic as a result.

[@TheDangleberries]

​​@@RayMon504 If shiter summoned itself and applied its effect only while face up there would have been no problem, same with droll etc. Chalice and book of moon would be answers as well as disruption. Choice is what makes gameplay enjoyable, not having any choice ruins gameplay, this is the problem. When you can make the choices you only have yourself to blame.

[@shien-ryu4395]

@@TheDangleberries Agreed. You can say that Shifter as an effect in a vacuum is fair but the thing that it's a lingering turn 0 handtrap with almost zero counter play, ruins the whole balance attempt of it. Those few decks that can win games without using the grave will just insta win every time they open Shifter. I can see Shifter getting at least limited, so it doesn't determine the winner in BO3 by itself

[@stelios413]

It's out of control at this point. Way too many hand traps exist & are at 3.

[@croczOTK]

But none are really worthy of being hit other then shifter and if you do there are just more options to replace them.

[@akitoyuuki4305]

Just make a list of all handtraps and boardbreakers and every deck is allowed to play a maximum of 9 cards of that list (how much of each cards is up to yourself) then the decks must relay more on their own engine like (branded, memento or hopefully the new decks in crossover breakers. I hate to play tenpai and put 20+ handtraps/boardbreakers in it... But thats how the game is nowadays...

[@invertbrid]

Yep its necessary evil in modern YGO, sometimes even 1 on 1 handtraps are not enough and u need more turnskips like shifter, droll, mulcharmies, etc. With how powerful combos now have become. Setting really strong board with multiple negates turn 1 that can prevent opp from playing, handtraps are here to counter that.

[@ODST18]

If a deck needs 15-20 handtraps then the actual deck comprising of the archatype's cards and its identity (that yugioh USED to stand for) now just equates to bad game design. It's poor balancing to the powercreep that komoney is supposed to be responsible for and it's just carelessness

[@rsgaming1828]

I looooooove Yu-Gi-Oh. I really do. I’ve been taking a break from playing because I'm building my financial services business. However, I love hand traps. The game isn't the same anymore, and things change over time. I'm an old player as well, and I feel like hand traps allow us to go back and forth while playing. Mind you, you have to taylor your deck due to the format with hand traps, card ratio, and more. I feel like they're needed because of the pacing of the game now. Depending on the deck you're playing, you're either going to deal with a board you can't break/interrupt or interrupt/break it while your opponent is playing.

[@mujigant]

Game's better with hand traps. Lingering floodgates are the bigger issue. Things like Droll, Shifter, and DBarrier.

[@randomdropentertainment5084]

Honestly I feel like this comes down to the ban list being so infrequent and not optimized at ALL. Formats become frustrating because certain cards stay at values that still promote stale gameplay. Obviously a good example is snake-eyes, it did not need to remain at full power for THIS long (not saying SE is OP, just an example of a top deck staying top for so long). Another example people point out is Shifter; also something that did not need to stick around for THIS long. It's not about ALL hand traps being a problem it's about cards not getting hit that are clearly a problem or going to be a problem that even professional players realize and Konami continuously refusing to evaluate their game effectively. Simple fix? Create more consistent and logical hits on the ban list that promote healthier gameplay, not these half assed attempts at hitting things that make no sense because they want to make money off of things they released in a previous set. Well that and give better prizing for people that perform well, but that's another story entirely.

[@brentmayfield501]

I feel like hand traps are fine as long as there are a variety of outs, but I’m not ok with everyone playing the same ones, if that’s the case then bring pot of greed to one so everyone can play something that looks great.

[@SomeoneNamedMark]

Handtraps are the issue. Ontop of that, the killed off trap cards by in large.

[@geek593]

Hand traps didn't kill off traps. Engine speed and consistency did. People were dropping generic traps back in the Duelist Alliance days because you'd rather see engine than a card you have to set to activate. This was before any of the ghost girls existed.

[@ASAINATL]

Traps cards wouldn't see play rn outside of control decks if all the hand traps got banned overnight, we would immediately switch to board breakers, which wouldn't be as reliable because there's so many nonsense auto wins set up to use in the draw phase (good luck beating gimmick puppet lock or calamity with dark ruler)

[@SomeoneNamedMark]

@@ASAINATL Your right. Thats because with handtraps decks had to become more consistant with a bunch of searchers, 1 card starters to combat all the handtraps. So taking away handtraps, decks would still not play traps because they are too slow. All of this is a product of handtraps ruining yugioh many many year ago. Konami will always ban/slaughter deck cores but never touch the handtraps which are generic meaning they constantly have to keep building powerful decks to combat the ever growing cardpool of generic handtraps.

[@coulterbaker4663]

I think there might be a 4th Mulcharmy that discards itself to search another mulcharmy - this would be a very good reason why we have the 'only 2 mulcharmy effects per turn' clause rather than each mulcharmy being limited to once/turn

[@rtyrtyrty123123123]

Hand traps aren’t the problem, they were the response to the problem

[@balther10]

People hate cards that stop them from playing solitaire.

[@djolemisic3348]

I don't mind board breakers and I don't mind hand traps. What I do mind is lingering hand traps like shifter, droll, maxx c (in master duel) and now newly mulcharmy. I really dislike the gameplay that comes after one of those cards is played. They either skip your turn, or you give your opponent so much advantage that it becomes a non game at that point. Hand traps should be trading 1 for one with your opponent, not skipping your turn because your deck auto looses to shifter, droll etc. It just makes for an unfun experience overall for both players.

[@ozm0zesjoe466]

It goes against what yugioh used to be. I get it. The fault is just unchecked power creep. Yugioh is just different now. Why even set cards lol

[@HotRed00]

Setting cards is still good. If you go first that is

[@ryandowney8458]

Me and some colleagues who run our locals have been trying to develop a custom casual format ban list, for kids to get into the game without being destroyed in a single turn, and we started by banning hand traps, but what we found is it makes a lot of older strategies, that fall down to single points of interaction, being way too strong. Hand traps at this point keep the game balanced. I think the real problem in the game now is decks with small engines that are just full of 1 card combos that can play through 4 interactions and make a board with 4+ interactions. The game has become unbalanced. The game now pay to win, if you don't have a deck that uses very expensive engines and then you don't get to play, unless you have a lot of experience.

[@IJustStoleaNoob]

Hand traps and with them giving monsters Omni negates and quick effects. Should of left monsters as best sticks with traps and spells as negation/support

[@Victor-Sappel]

To me, handtraps should be an one for one card like Ash, veiller, ogre ... A card that can be a problem but NOT a turn skip you can pull from your @55 like Nibiru or Shifter that can invalidate a lot of strategies and before they can really play, making grave useless or some decks that NEED 5-6 summons to just finish on 2 OK monsters and lingering effects ... What a pain, I agree with the ones who say Konami should limite or just ban too strong ones and floodgates

[@mageside]

Yes and no, but konami should have made the ghost girls need a similar activation to psy-frame omega, makikg them require Red Blossoms of the Underroot to be utilized as discard or tribute matieral to use the ghost girls like ash blossom and such. But of course konami needs to stop crafting unbreakable boards, lock down archetypes more! Its a whole because the gsme is such a delicate balance

[@satellitecannon4717]

The thing about hand traps is that at first they were fine when we only had a few around like effect veiler and maxx c. The problem was that once they started to pop up more frequently with new cards, they started to become a problem. Once cards like ash blossom and infinite impermanence got on the scene then thats when things started to take a turn for the worst. Now there are too many hand traps in the game that even if you were to ban, for example ash blossom, infinite impermanence, and evenly matched there are many more cards to take there place. But the thing with them is that theyre kind of like a necessary evil, given to how card design is today. Without them, your opponent can make an unbreakable board or can be pretty much unstoppable. But thats the current state of yugioh.

[@SeparatedMiles]

Handtraps we have now singlehandedly set YGO down it's path to stupidity. it should have stopped with the battle related cards

[@Junglewarfare]

What’s the point of traps if hand traps are just better?

[@geek593]

And archetypal monsters smoke everything else in power.

[@RayMon504]

This problem isnt just a hand trap issue. ANY card that has an extremely powerful effect with minimal cost AND little to no drawbacks are always going to be an issue.

[@lilys2835]

everyone thinking the mulcharmys are to setup for a maxx c ban in the ocg are coping hard. the mulcharmys are being printed because maxx c alone ISN'T ENOUGH that they need to print weaker versions. they're not being printed as replacements for maxx c, they're being printed to be used ALONGSIDE maxx c, because they don't actually compete or conflict with each other at all. tom is right that handtraps did kind of "ruin" the game in many aspects, but they're also the reason why konami can just print more and more 1cardcombos, because they know that handtraps exist as bandaids to check them. maxx c is objectively good for the game and these mulcharmys prove it. anyone who thinks otherwise (most of yall) is delulu.

[@dariuspenner2528]

Hand traps are fine. Formats that require lots of them are more of a canary in a coal mine type of thing that underline how out of control engines have become. Veiler isn’t more toxic now than it was in 2010 when the card first came out, it’s that single cards can be so pivotal to resolve that having a Veiler to stop your starter or extender ends up being more impactful. Monster effects and draw power haven’t become more impactful compared to when Ash, Veiler, and Imperm were first printed, decks are just able to OTK much more easily nowadays so having your combo stopped by a couple hand traps can be game determinative. The issue is in the strength of decks nowadays that can turn a single SE Ash into a complete end board that at a minimum will have IP and Flamberge on board with Princess in grave and a resource loop that lets them vomit out every SE name again next turn. A single card negating a single effect by going -1 is completely fine. Hand traps are only toxic when they actively grant card advantage or provide lingering effects, like Shifter, Maxx C, and the new wind Mullcharmy that’s absolutely on the short list to get banned in the TCG.

[@RogueKing191]

I honestly think people give Konami more credit than they deserve when it comes to the idea of hand traps. I remember when cards like DD Crow and Maxx C came out, and most players didn't think anything about them. During that time, the most common way of thinking was that the card had to have synergy with my deck either being the same type, attribute or at the very least an effect supporting the decks strategy. At some point, we, the players, took another look at those cards and used them, as intended, but to a degree that I believe Konami didn't expect. Are they horribly designed? Not really, but in the sense that the player base changed from a more pure playing form to one where completely shutting down the opponents plays was the best way to counter took over, yes they are. And yes, stun existed but I remember those players having a hard time getting anyone to play with them after everyone played the deck once.

[@Droufte]

Handtraps as a concept are a great addition to the game, and make it able to create powerful combo decks. The variety of handtraps could become a problem, but it allows also an evolution of the format and some surprises sometimes. I would not say they are the problem. To me the problem is, no deck should be able to play half ou 3/4 of their decks as handtraps. A deck should be in majority the archtype, and not non engine. To me the real problem of the meta right now is this, decks like Snake Eyes that has only 1 card combos that can make you an almost unbreakable board with the rest that are interruptions, and since they can play 15 to 20, that makes a lot of different interruptions. Tenpai as a concept is dumb also, making go second untouchable so they can play is not a healthy option, but making them able to play 3/4 of their deck as handtraps and board breakers is unbelievable to me. So to me we are facing two major problems; archtypes design that, in paper are good since limiting combo is interesting, but making an archtype able to be viable and overpowered in less than 20 cards is really dumb. But mostly the problem is that it is combined with one card combos that can do way too much. The two of them combined is then a very powerful deck, ultra consistent, and with so many interruptions that it makes the deck way too strong for anything. If the deck was tight and really strong but bricky, the deck would not be that strong. If the deck was a one card combo that makes you able to put a fairly good end board but has to play a lot of engines cards to work, it would not be the strongest deck.

[@gambitgambles]

I been saying this since last year but I like that people are now opening their eyes 👀

[@Nauibotic]

Personally as someone who purely plays time wizard formats, its amazing how interactive the game is in this like Goat and Edison where mind games are more important. modern is too reliant on castling as soon as possible and seeing if your opponent can successfully siege you. I like that BLS doesn't require a ten step program to stop once he's out or that a literal top deck can swing the tempo of the game. Nowadays, you basically know by the end of turn one who is going to win and that's boring to me. hand traps are not the problem, it's the consequence of the format design.

[@vampireguy92ryan81]

Handtraps were fine but then they went too far and ruined everything. It's time we limit or ban some and introduce new ones that do different things under different conditions like mulcharmmy cards. I think we need a master rule where you can't have any more than 10 or 12 handtraps.

[@croczOTK]

Which ones would you want to limit or ban? Other than shifter of course. None seem hittable to me. Even gamma should come back to 3

[@vampireguy92ryan81]

@croczOTK ash can be banned or limited. Gamma should stay at 1. I think that's about it. So many things count as handtraps tho. Bystials, the one dragonmaid card, contact C. Effect veiler and imperm are fine at 3

[@croczOTK]

@@vampireguy92ryan81 Why should ash be limited/banned. For the record I wouldve agreed with you in 2019. but in 2024 ash doesnt even feel like it does much if thats all you draw. Veiler / Imperm / even mourner feel like more high impact than Ash in many situations. Why is ash bannable but not those cards. Even ghost belle hits harder if you are able to land it than ash.

[@vampireguy92ryan81]

@croczOTK for the simple reason that by itself can stop games or even end ppls turn. When playing older decks, especially, they need to get into the deck and in some cases that's their only hope of extending. Decks nowadays don't care about ash and in most cases 2-3 handtraps do end ppls turns, but I feel ash just hits a lil too hard sometimes

[@n4b5ter41]

Hand traps should affect every deck equally to be fair. But then the question of how many ht should a deck be able to run comes in. Pokemon is so much more fun than yugioh rn because there's only board breakers and games are actually played instead of one side scooping to ht

[@tuavaresm]

I remember players complaining about opponents having 6 cards going first. There will always be complaining 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@geek593]

There will always be complaining because Konami is constantly pushing bad design.

[@Grrrrrt]

One card starters that double as extenders is what made hand traps a problem. With one card combos, you can trim out the fat and throw in 15 hand traps so your opponent can’t play.

[@croczOTK]

He forgot to mention the OGs DD Crow and Honest

[@paraladani]

I played kuriboh in my top 8 nats deck back then. Kuriboh was used

[@bakedbeyondbelief321]

I think hand traps are alright. I'd like to see yugioh introduce resource like in other games. Reduce the Extra Deck to 12, and apply 1 resource cost to tap to get into the Extra Deck. This could open up a lot of new ways to slow some of the meta t0 things, and make it more strategic when needing to get into the Extra Deck if it cost 1 EXDR (Extra Deck Resource) to like tap or put in Graveyard. Could even create strategies to bring resource back with cards and allow for more plays at the expense of using resource replenishment effects. Just a thought.

[@JDBass36]

Besides Maxx C My most hated handtrap is Ash Blossom 🤣 hate that Dam card So many clutch moments I've lost to a random ash lol

[@michaeldimisa5707]

Multcharmie number 4 will be for summoning from s/t zones and tokens. Mark my word

[@zyroberk]

I mean, this is the logical conclusion to the mid 5D's to late Arc-V design philosophy to remedy YGO's major design oversight, the lack of a resource system. (Not saying it's bad to not have one, but most card games do it because it's a simple and effective solution to balance the pace of the game). In a game where card advantage is the only thing that matters, designing cards that lose you advantage but also stop your opponent from getting advantage makes sense. Now apply the inevitable progression of power creep throughout 25 years of existance and you have Yu-Gi-Oh! as it is right now. At this point, the only way to really deal with it is a limited format, with some level of set rotation and good amounts of attention to design. Set rotation by itself doesn't stop power creep (ask any honest Magic player, they will answer this), solid design philosophy does.

[@Evan20000]

People who hates handtraps conceptually have never been Magical Explosion FTK'd, Wind up Looped, or X-Saber handrip looped back in the day. That's not to say there's not really badly designed handtraps like DShifte, Maxx C or the Charmies, but handtraps as 1 card for 1 effect exchanges are the lifeblood of modern Yugioh. Most good decks shouldn't be outright stopped by them, but they should still be inconvenient to be hit by and knowing how to pivot your combo lines into effective half boards in response to certain pieces being stopped is what keeps board building from just being outright solitaire. If the engines are strong enough and compact enough where a 1 card starter plays through multiple handtraps without being meaningfully inconvenienced while being able to run 15+ handtraps of their own, then that's an entirely different problem.

[@Zambles]

Replacing the current overbearing hand traps with more restrictive ones that require makeing decisions could be great. But i also know konami will rarity lock them thus just setting up a situation where you need X to stop your op and you cant afford it

[@RImeri31]

Hand traps are a good idea the issue is how Konami has designed them and the game since Ash and Nibiru. Ash and Nib existed to slow down the game and they succeeded, but then Konami made decks that could play through the so they instead just gate checked older decks. Now we're at a point where they don't do enough or worse help the going first person protect their board. The Mulchemmys are a good step, but Konami needs to do a hard ban list that resets the power level to where Nib and Ash do what they were created to do. In addition, the OCG designs cards around Maxx C. Since the TCG doesn't have the bug, we deal with degeneracy that was never supposed to happen.

[@elionijames598]

Cards that negate other cards as quick effects, one card full combos, and yes handtraps definitely evolved the game to what it is today, but you know how the saying goes. You win by knowing when to use handtraps not by your deck.

[@jaimehernandez4962]

-"Dimensional shifter is a Fair card".

[@MrJuan_Vzla]

Trap cards were the only form of disruption, but decks became super consistent, leaving better endboards on the first turn. This made trap cards obsolete, forcing Konami to create handtraps to replace them. Personally I like modern fast YGO, so I don't mind 🤷‍♂️

[@thewisemonarch1704]

I've been thinking some solution for this handtraps in deck building dilema, but im sure 90% of players will hate it... What about increasing the deck card min/max from 40-60 to 45-65 (and decreasing side deck from 15 to 10)

[@d.r.6177]

New Cards being the replacement for the old HTs seems logical. Otherwise these cool cards will just never be used

[@TheChineseGodFather]

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

[@MultiDomko]

Can you please do top5/10 budget decks🔥coming back into ygo

[@luvajay22]

Me personally I like a more slower paced back and forth type of match but maybe I’m just stuck in the old yugioh ways lol

[@cheaterxl243]

Only Going Second handtrap is ok. Every Other Handtrap is not ok because every player does have them on top of their first turn field.

[@izzydarkhart4144]

I feel a huge contributing factor is there is only one legal format. Squashing top tournament decks with against casual deck that do not stand a chance. Now a big thing i see in the competitive sean is that the current core meta is boring and stale and it has stuck around for to long and no one is having fun anymore, something needs to dramatically shake up the format. Hand taps need to be more restrictive, precise, and impactful. None of this generic you can not play the game style handtraps. Butbin all honesty, these style of hand traps are a symptoms to a bigger problem. Just look at 5he top decks, what else can stop them? It is a problem that has gone on to long and now the problem is almost impossible to fix.

[@goatman_chan5323]

Lingering effects that don’t have counter play are an issue. In-archetype hand traps that advance your own game state should be the focus. Yu-gi-oh has to step up prizing to stay relevant. Giving access to meta relevant exclusive cards as prizing if we want to stay away from cash.

[@olanceylance]

confirmed imper ban incoming

[@mitchwilk793]

True facts and good speculations based on those facts. I also believe Yugioh is about to transition to another handtrap line and phase out the current ones.

[@xDBoomer]

I haven't kept up in years but I didn't think the game has gotten to the point of 20 hand traps. Me and my friends just play with a 1 spell, 1 trap, 1 monster negate rule. Its fun and we can play old decks format match ups. Last weekend we had a That grass looks greener themed tournament that I won with lightsworn by the skin of my teeth. This weekend its a Pot tournament. Hand traps were too generic with little to no draw backs.

[@hastymoose]

I think the craziest thing is opening 5 hand traps and stopping ur opponent completely, then you draw for turn your 1 card combo & go for game. Lmaooo

[@shendelzarescathach1674]

Tearlaments format is peak yugioh. No hand traps besides bystials and kelbek. Both players playing on both turns, balls to the walls mill 10 with shufflers.

[@OmegaKhaosYGO]

I think -1 handtraps like Veiler,Impermanence,Mourner and 1-1 handtraps like Ash,Belle,Ogre are completely fine...but handtraps that are lingering like Shifter,Droll,Maxx C,Mulcharmy cards and that are too gamebreaking like Gamma,Nibiru,Bystials are not fine....obviously the lingering ones being the worst offenders... But of course they are a symptom of a larger problem....

[@Lopeskenhw]

None of these question would come up if Tcg card prices were the same as ocg. No one in the ocg is quiting, why? Bc it’s cheap to play. In the TCG it’s hard to see return in your investment without investing a lot more time. Yugioh is a luxury for the Tcg. They are getting slightly better with decks like tenpai and puppet.

[@benzan06]

Without hand traps, the person who goes first would win like 95% of the times.

[@jyounochi]

I HATE HANDTRAPS , I CANT PLAY YUGIOH MAN!!!!! -the guy that sets a 10+ negate full board with floodgates every game (and all decks he makes plays the same shit)

[@PsychoKern]

I want Shifter gone and also I do not want any Maxx C type of card in TCG....Thank You

[@BlueBlast-mw7fr]

We need to take out every generic HT and replace it with archetype exlcusives

[@stayflyxx]

So do you think that they'll ban all the ghost sisters & Maxx C once a good array of new hand traps are available? If they did then i'd want a banlist to really focus in on the extra deck. Keep on dismantling it to where it is no longer as over bearing & generic.

[@alexanderpondarius8586]

I am of the opinion that non floodgate/lingering handtraps are fine....droll, shifter, maxx c, the charmy's are not ok. They are easy win cards with very little counter play. You could just make better boardbreakers.... a new lava golem that doesnt take up the normal summon, new kaiju's that require at least one specific extra deck type monster(synchro,xyz,fusion,link or pendulum) as tribute as well as one other opponents monster so you can 2 for one monsters off the field....with monsters like that who cares about cards like baron.

[@LakbobYT]

It's not really HT that are the main issue, it's Konami making all these 1 card starters with 2+ effects that facilitate in allowing people to run so much non-engine. I mean, look at SE with 5+ 1 card starters. If Konami stopped making these unfair decks then this wouldn't be an issue

[@akcrcee_k]

Handtraps are essential. HOWEVER; as with every strategy boss sought out in the name of winning, EARN the right to activate &/or play them 💯 20-25 handtraps and no engine whatsoever is next-level caustic 🚫 Why aren't more archetype core more vital to the strategy itself?? Then add your spice with your techs & non-engine for forty? Having the "out" is too much of a golden parachute for modern-day Yu-Gi-Oh 🙏🏾 Bring back the thrill 💫

[@hokagevinny]

Foil scattershot awareness post 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@tomfox8551]

Just to remind people, kuriboh was the OG hand trap.

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Eh, its just part of the game. So long as there are outs, alls fair with the heart of the cards.

[@matt3608]

I stopped playing back in February, not sayin I hate the game or anything but I was just sick of having to drop crazy money on cards just to stand a chance at going 3-2 at locals because I didn’t have the best deck….hopefully it’ll get better

[@leekyonion]

Hand traps were created to encourage interaction. But now all decks that want to be successful needs to clear hand traps - so new archetypes that are created become able to play around hand traps. So what do we do? Do we print more powerful handtraps? Because that means printing archetypes that beat those handtraps. And how long before a monster is a built in monster reborn, etb evenly matched and unaffected by all cards that aren't yours while also penetrating defense and dealing double damage while when negated from hand, allows you to special summon the same monster from the deck instead to circumvent the hand trap effect. C'mon guys - hand traps have always been the problem. Decks have been made with them in mind since they first came into the picture and they have warped card design. We need to scale back the strength of everything if we are to have a thriving card game.

[@MarvinMcNutt-e8r]

if my opp is gonna set up 5 negates and 5 pops and a floodgate in their end board then I'm not taking that chance and drolling them, nibing them, etc

[@avatarmufasa3628]

So far, most handtraps have a fixed amount of influence. For example, imperm negates 1 monster . Maxx c meanwhile gets more powerful as the opponent continues to play. It may be that other handtraps that increase in power could be interesting. Ie a multiple negate imperm that cant be used at the start of if the opponents combo. But later on is more impactful than inperm