Handwarmers S06E01 Jon-e Giant catalyst & springs

[@Tadders]

Nice, the hand warmer guru is back!

[@scoobiedude]

Just purchased a giant. I couldn't help but laugh at how big it was when i finally saw it in person. The peacock giant is the same size in width and height but only half the thickness. I will try my steel screen mod in the head and see if there are any good results. Hoping for a flame thrower given the size of this thing!

[@scoobiedude]

Works great! radiates the most heat of all my warmers. one test i did was blocking the tab holes that are in the head. My thought was vapor escape and more vapor going up and out the catalyst. I found I was getting a slight but measurable temp drop! I think having them open has something to do with oxygen. repeated with standard Jon e with the same results.

[@Bloated_Tony_Danza]

I'm thankful to have stumbled upon your videos because I'm in the midst of repairing my catalysts. My solution to a bad catalyst seems rediculous, expensive, and extreme in comparison to yours, and you've really opened my eyes. Here's what I'm doing. From a 2"x3" platinum-clad niobium mesh electrode, I've made four cages that wrap around the old catalyst cloth. (my catalyst heads now look like electric razors) Next I was going to add a small .002 thick platinum-iridium alloy wire spring inside the old catalyst cloth. This wire hasn't arrived yet, 50 bucks for 5 feet. Now the crazy part that even I'm not sure about...I happen to have one gram of potassium hexachloroplatinate. It's a bright yellow platinum compound. I was planning on dissolving this in boiling water then soaking my old catalysts in it. In my head this all sounds reasonable. I need to get platinum packed into these elements. More platinum means more heat. Platinum is expensive and hard to come by, so I need a high surface area. But...after watching your videos and seeing this ceramic platinum soaked wool...all my plans are out the window!!

[@MountainParameters]

After a couple of beers I can't even begin to asses the chances of you system supporting an exothermic reaction, you'll have to get us some pictures as it sounds like you've dedicated some hard work and time to it. As for 'ceramic platinum soaked wool', you'd be referring to Saffil fibres in terms of what we use for the equivalent substrate. The manufacturer calls Saffil fibres 'Alumina Fibers'. However, there are many propane heaters that use ceramic elements to support an exothermic reaction, so it stands to reason that anything you can get platinum deposited on has a chance of working. BTW, to digress a bit, I often find some comments seem to refer to Saffil as a fiberglass material which would be incorrect. THe melting point of fiberglass is around 1100C, whereas Saffil is rated for a nominal melting point of 1600C.

[@Bloated_Tony_Danza]

@@MountainParameters yeah it's hard to explain through text, I'll make a video and post it so you can get a better idea of what my goal is. Also, I purchased HPC platinum bright embers, 5 grams worth. Learning that this stuff exists and is available really changes up my plans and I can now skip the chlorinated platinum compound all together. I've read somewhere that these catalysts really need at least 1% Platinum in them to work well, but I have a really limited understanding of catalytic reactions. I do have experience with alumina though, it's able to tolerate higher temperatures than silica (fiberglass) but it's not as mechanically strong. It does handle heat cycling better than silica though, very good for this application. Side note, seeing that platinum is so extremely expensive, and it's use needs to be made as little and as efficient as possible to keep costs reasonable, does more platinum directly correlate with more heat? I imagine that a wire mesh has much lower surface area than a fibrous substrate, which would make for less platinum being exposed to fuel vapors. Idk, I'll make a video lol

[@MountainParameters]

@@Bloated_Tony_Danza The amount of heat resultant from an exothermic reaction is a function of the surface area of the catalyst that comes into contact with 1: the volatile organic compounds in the fumes your fuel give off when it evaporates and, 2: Oxygen, and 3: ambient temperature. Pack the catalyst too tight and you remove two sides of the catalyst triangle. Pack it too loose and there is less catalyst available to generate heat. Just like packing espresso coffee grounds into a portafilter to pull a proper shot, getting the optimal catalyst density is best given substance by developing your skills as a 'Handwarmer Barista' through trail and error. We'll look forward to your video!

[@10thAveFreezeOut]

I still have catalyst you sent me long ago. This inspires me to rebuild some of my aging handwarmers!

[@MountainParameters]

That's the nice thing about catalyst, and hand warmers, no expiry date!

[@willyck948]

Hey another hand warmer video from the master🤘

[@MountainParameters]

Thanks! However, She Who Must Be Obeyed may think differently, along the lines of, "another hand warmer video from the guy who did not have dinner ready when I got home from work"...

[@willyck948]

life is compromise your hand warmer parts service is most likely paying for alot of dinners🤔

[@MountainParameters]

@@willyck948 Craft beer!

[@georgesilverhawkstrailcame2297]

If I may ask, “what is the sizes of these springs”? For a Zippo, is a 1/2 Inch x 1-1/2 Spring the size to go with? For a Jon-E standard, is a 1 1/8 x 1 1/2 in spring best? What size spring is best for Jon-E Standard and Giant hand warmers, and Zippo hand warmers?

[@Bloated_Tony_Danza]

I have a long winded question. I left my catalyst installed on a recently refueled, unlit hand warmer. About 20 minutes later I decided to light it and I could hear the catalyst "sizzle" momentarily. To me that's fuel vapors absorbing onto the catalyst as the fuel evaporates. Now I think* my hand warmer isn't as hot as it was before but I'm not sure, maybe I'm just worrying. You said that if fuel spills into the catalyst, there's a permanent degradation in heat output? My question is if the fuel itself is volatile, will the vapors cause damage similar to liquid fuel? I'm using VM&P Naptha from home Depot. Oh and I'll make that video today or tomorrow

[@MountainParameters]

Sounds like you did everything right, it is best to let the handwarmer sit for awhile before lighting it to give evaporation a chance to get going and produce fumes. Even if you get naptha on the catalyst, in my experience it does not 'sizzle'. More likely there was some sort of contaminent that got burned, but that's just my best guess. But as to whether it could damage the catalyst, based on your description, I rather doubt it.

[@MrLabradorwildman]

Hi John i Brought two of the Large Jon-e Giant and the Small Jon-e Giant from my Local outdoor store The Heads them self's is there a better one you can use? find so flimsy! I'm using your large Springs i love them lots of heat great for -30c we getting In Labrador!

[@MountainParameters]

Hello Dave, first you guys got the storms, and now the cold! We did get to -31 here last night as well. I've never really found anything that can replace the shrouds on any of those handwarmers, so you're forced to make do with what they had, and try to modify them as best you can using pliers to make them fit tighter and springs to hold the catalyst in place. I once drilled a hole in the shoulder of the reservoir and then put a grommet in it to use as a refuel hole, and then used a heat resistant rubber cement to try and hold the shroud on, and that really didn't make much of an improvement in the end.

[@timvener3723]

My 1969 GI With OEM catalyst Is. waay too hot for the chest pocket on my carhart bibs. My question is if I go to a lower heat head, will I be just off gassing raw fuel fumes (Naptha). Can I cool my burn by reducing air circulation? Or will that just throw out unburned fumes?

[@MountainParameters]

Let's use an analogy to conceptualize this. In 1969 car engines were aspirated by a carburetor. The combustion triangle is a basic concept used to understand how combustion works and how to optimize it. Aspiration refers to the way air is drawn into a combustion chamber. In a combustion triangle, the three elements that must be present for combustion to occur are fuel, heat, and oxygen. Aspiration is the process of introducing oxygen into the chamber, typically by using a fan or pump to draw in air, but in this case it is convection. This air provides the oxygen necessary for the fuel to combust and generate heat. By limiting this arm of the triangle by limiting the convective flow, your GI will produce less heat. Less heat in the Carhart bib means less evaporation of the naptha, thus contributing to the end result you seek.

[@714SNF]

thx for the video! what modern hand warmer do you recommend now a days? I'm still using my trusty zippo but my boston hand warmer had its plastic bottom piece break off.

[@MountainParameters]

The technology behind liquid fuel handwarmers has not changed much in 100 years. Therefore any handwarmer that is used properly and maintained properly, even if it's 50 years old, should work as well as a new one. Yes, plastic is not as durable as metal, and cannot take as much punishment.

[@jesselee8704]

Do they still make the Jon e giant? If so Where I can buy?

[@MountainParameters]

Mine was gifted to me. Based on what I have heard from other clients, they had to get theirs from listings on eBay, probably because they are a legacy product. I plan to have a few cases of the 'Red Star' model that, once modified with proper catalyst, produces similar heat output as the Jon-e GI, in late February.

[@jesselee8704]

Hello, what is material of spring made of?

[@MountainParameters]

Stainless steel and nickel-chrome are used to create the spring. Stainless steel contains at least 10% chromium and is highly resistant to corrosion. Nickel-chrome alloys, also known as Inconel, are corrosion-resistant alloys that contain nickel and chrome as the primary elements. They are known for their excellent resistance to corrosion, high-temperature strength, and resistance to fatigue, which is important when they need to retain their shape in the shroud of a hand warmer after numerous cycles of heat/cold reactions and exposure to atmospheric hydrocarbons. To blend stainless steel and nickel-chrome alloys to create a spring, the alloys are melted, and mixed together in proportions that we have deemed appropriate after a few years of seat of the pants field tests to see which proportion has worked the best over time. We then have the factory make them to that specification.

[@jesselee8704]

Thank you , where can I buy the catalyst , the spring , and carbon felt , do you have recommendations for brands?

[@MountainParameters]

@@jesselee8704 Items outlined in this demonstration can be found on our order form: bit.ly/3LhyjyA

[@blairfarrend867]

Do you sell springs and catalyst material?

[@MountainParameters]

Hello Blair. All the items that are available are on the order form. The order form link is at the bottom of the description.