Hangkai versus ePropulsion Spirit - Two very different 48 volt electric outboard motors

[@yepyepuhhuh]

I have a 2 stroke gas Hangkai 3.6 hp motor. The leg on your electric motor looks exactly the same as the gas. I really believe the sound will be reduced if you added oil to the gearbox as they are not shopped with oil. Good video none the less.

[@scotts.2624]

The Hangkai website says it needs to have gear oil added.

[@eddiejiang6789]

I just bought one from eBay and found that the gear oil is actually already added. But it's always good to double check if you buy one.

[@richardwernst]

Yup. Even if not covered in manual, should be pretty simple. Usually a lower and upper screw of some sort in gearcase. Remove BOTH. Put oil (any major lower unit oil should be fine) in the LOWER hole 'til it runs out the top hole. Then put upper bolt in, which will keep most oil from coming out bottom/fill hole while you take fill tube out and insert that bolt. I'll be very interested to know how, or if the loud noise is lessened (before and after db meter readings?).

[@eddiejiang6789]

@@richardwernst I wouldn't expect much difference of noise whether the gearbox is oiled. The major noise comes from the motor, as it is up out of water (not like ePropulsion)

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

@richardwernst I will be covering this in the future!

[@TheWebstaff]

That's a few extra .x hp without oil.

[@Poppy_love59]

Did you oil the Hangkai ?

[@JohnMcNeely]

You mean the lower unit? The electric motor doesn't require oil.

[@peekayboo7183]

@@JohnMcNeely did you see where the motor is? obviously the vertical shaft doesn't magically produce horizontal rotation

[@eddiejiang6789]

@@JohnMcNeely The lower unit needs to be oiled. There's a saying that Hangkai doesn't add oil to the gearbox by default. Luckily for my case it was oiled.

[@anthonysimpson2847]

to be fair you should have tilted the non running motor out of the water. the E-propulsion with a 2 blade prop and motor causing way more drag than the hangkai.

[@bearman975]

I agree, lower units are different, props are different, drag may be significantly different, maybe not......but if it is, then that would skew the results.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I will do more testing in the future to see how they are different when run solo on a smaller boat.

[@SuperGreenshades]

Right outa the box the amount of confidence you can feel for the hang Kai is just amazing!

[@artbobik3516]

Wayne, first thing is to use an air compressor to blow as much dust out of the Hangkai lower unit as you can - I would also use a strong shop vac to suck out anything that is left in there - then fill it with I think 90LB weight lower unit lube before you run it again - I think you will find it will be a lot less noisy and faster - run it in the water at least 15 minutes or more to get whatever dust is left in there into the lube - when you get back change the lube again and you should be good to run that for a lot longer before it blows up - I never would have run it dry, everything like that needs some kind of lube or grease just like your drill and grinders do or BOOM - this was a great vid and test as usual -

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Great tips! It would be nice if the owners manual even hinted to this needing to be done - but it literally says nothing about the lower unit.

[@TheWebstaff]

​@@WayneTheBoatGuyas you say, every outboard comes without oil. Not sure given you knew this, why would would not at least check?! I agree it should be in the manual, but still come on.

[@mrhalfstep]

I know it would be iffy to use the Hangkai motor, but I think there is cheaper way to power it, if anyone is willing to take the chance, than the battery that you suggest. I found several batteries on Amazon that are 25.6 volts at 50 and 60 ah that come with dedicated battery chargers that fit a socket built into the case of the battery. They have BMS ratings that match their ah rating, so 50 ah has 50 amp BMS and 60 ah has 60 amp BMS. They range between $200 and $229. They could be wired in series (at least 4 allowed, in the ones I found) and you would have a 48 volt battery/charger setup for as little as $400. No name batteries so it's as risky as the motor, but I wanted to put it out there.

[@peekayboo7183]

I'd rather DYI upgrade the Hangkai than over pay for the Eprop.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

This platform seems well suited for some DIY upgrades! My friend Dan (who has the one that arrived broken) has been tinkering with an upgraded controller and prop. But the ePropulsion is a much higher quality product.

[@TheWebstaff]

​@@WayneTheBoatGuysee my various comments. You can use ebike parts. Buy a nice ebike sine wave controller, upgrade the plugs to proper waterproof ones and get a nice ebike battery or 3 and some chunky wires and that should be an OK motor. Or just run it till it does. One thing I didn't like is that controller wires coming out the top. If that silicone is missed any holes the controller will fill up with water.

[@FredMcGee-gn2dm]

Another good video. If it were me, I would just use 12-volt electric motors and not worry about it. 😃

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Yeah - 12 motors do well but don't quite have enough for stronger currents and winds.

[@ralphbarker7791]

Awesome video. The average person can not afford the high priced battery and many people do not want to pay $1,500.00 for an e motor, but more people are getting evironmentally conscious. Great motors for older women too.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Thanks! An electric never has carb issues!

[@buddyrevell6369]

The market for the ePropulsion is folks who can afford it. Think a tender going out to a sailboat on a moring. The hangkai is really for low buck fisherman and jon boats on ponds. I don't see them overlapping at all.

[@JohnMcNeely]

I understand why you picked that motor. I believe you already had it and it's similar in specs to the e-Propulsion. But Hangkai also sells an 48v, 8 Hp direct-drive electric outboard. It uses a 2200W 3000 RPM (50a at Wide Open Throttle) motor. They cost about $300-$400 including shipping; still a fraction of the e-Propulsion. I think they would make a better showing against the ePropulsion Spirit, the Newport NT300, or Torqueedo 1103. Regarding tge kull switcg, I nlike trollibg motirs where the throttle stays where you set it, the Hangkai electric motors use a spring-loaded throttle. If you let go of the throttle, as if you all out of the boat, the throttle return to closed. You use cruise control, it wont. I also have a second Hangkai that is a 60v 10 HP. But it's the same motor. It draws only 37a at WOT. I don't detect a difference in power between the two. The 60v version has a 60v controller in the head. You can't just connect a 48v battery. It wont work. But the 60v version will probably last longer. But more and cheaper battery options exist at 48v including ones with Bluetooth BMS. The direct-drive hangkai motors are much quieter. Cooling with the direct-drive motor is not an issue.

[@0xKruzr]

@@JohnMcNeely I have the motor you're talking about. it works perfectly fine. a thing I don't understand is why Hangkai seems to refuse to put in the fairly minimal (for them) work to let these things accept a standard remote steering cable and remote throttle arrangement. the 2200W one makes plenty of sense for a little center-console runabout type boat. they have more powerful ones that would be even better for.

[@elchang1688]

Good comparison video. Just by looking at the Hangkai's electrical connectors, this motor won't last long in a saltwater environment. Having the motor unit outside of the water, the Hankai motor would be more noisier and also be less efficient in driving the propeller through a gear system. The ePropulsion motor is much more efficient as the motor is directly driving the prop as well as less noisier being underwater.

[@BurchellAtTheWharf]

Merry Christmas Wayne the boat guy

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Thanks you too! Don't work too hard and try to stay warm!!

[@BurchellAtTheWharf]

@WayneTheBoatGuy thank you very much, thinks I got most of this week off. Time to get back at some chores

[@chadbussey8305]

Hi Wayne. I'm a subscriber and a friend. I enjoy your videos very much. I think you like we all do have your own personal preferences and biases and I think it showed a little in this video. You gave the check mark to eprop in the support category and failed entirely to tell the story of how support worked for you with the hangkai. I happen to recall that story Wayne. I think it sucks that you don't give hangkai the check mark there or AT LEAST mention what the resolution was (They just sent him a whole nother motor. He wound up with two for the price of one)

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I appreciate your point of view. But I felt they didn't deserve credit for support because I had to learn how to get a resolution through posts on Hangkai Owner Facebook groups. I initially tried the default ways to return the motor or get a refund and reached a dead end of either paying almost as much to return it (with no guarantee that they would refund or replace) or just try to work a severely damaged and used motor. I was very concerned that I might get a replacement but no refund on all of the additional shipping charges. Because there's no dealer network, the only way to purchase the motor is through random 3rd party sellers. Once I figured out how to dig deep into Amazon to try to communicate with the seller (which took me a while and was literally through an AI chat) I waited weeks with no additional communication from Amazon or the seller on whether one was shipped or any other follow up. The whole process is much more challenging than dealing with any one of the reputable companies with customer service who sell the more costly outboards. I really felt like nothing was going to get resolved until the replacement motor was at my door.

[@TheWebstaff]

That cheap controller is the same as some of my ebike controllers! :) If you want to know how to hack it for more power, a bit of solder on the shunt for more amps. Or up the battery volatge

[@johntate5284]

Interesting. One HP is defined internationally as 746 watts meaning that the ePropulsion Spirit is actually 1.34 real horsepower and the Hangkai is actually about 1.6 HP. Equivalent HP is actually a marketing term, so, is the Hangkia actually violating the Coast Guard regulation, or has the Coast Guard regulation been updated to say "equivalent" HP? Nice review and thanks for testing!

[@danlazer8762]

Great overview. Balanced at thorough. Totally agree with your analysis.

[@solargloater8059]

Thanks Wayne. Your comparison with the battery cost used a figure of $1100 for the Hangkai. You need to shop better. I paid $215 total with tax and shipping for the motor. I was able to get (4) 50AH 12V Lifepo4 batteries for $220 with tax and shipping. Total: $435 or $600 less than you paid. If you’re going to go cheap, then GO CHEAP! I bet a lot more of your viewers would be interested in the Hangkai at that price.

[@eddiejiang6789]

Fully agree with you. I just bought a 48v 100ah battery with charger from Aliexpress at only CA$150. My Hangkai motor costed me CA$500+. So total less than CA$700 (i.e. $500). That's a huge difference to the $2600 for ePropulsion.

[@24hrMusic]

Agreed. Even Amazon has a LiTime 48v 30ah battery with blutooth for only $369 and that's actually a well respected brand.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Yeah the batteries are getting cheaper and better all the time (at the moment) which is certainly a consideration

[@tonyp9179]

Seriously try a 12v Newport trolling motor with an APC prop, I bet you get similar speed for like $500 motor, prop and lipo battery

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Yes that might be a better option than this motor!

[@jckdnls9292]

Apc prop is OK for perfect conditions, wind, current, swells, etc. But for rougher conditions, I prefer the stock weedless 3 blade prop. I've tested both in the bay.

[@TheWebstaff]

20:22 daniel over at rctestflight, that 2 blade prop will be way more efficent on that electric motor than the three blade one I would assume. Get a clamp meter and see how manynamps its drawing.

[@stephenswanson533]

Excellent video, and review. THOUGHT: are either of these motors rated for salt water? Seems like immersing an electric motor (ePropulsion) in saltwater is a non-starter, which could give the Hangkai another check mark on the matrix?

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

The ePropulsion are saltwater rated and many have been on sailboats for years. I have read that the Hangkai motors are 'supposed to be' but many of them have corrosion issues pretty quickly.

[@JohnMcNeely]

​@@WayneTheBoatGuySo far so good.

[@leefortier]

I've only got one comment. I would fail the Hankai for speed only because it is supposed to be a 5hp equivalent motor but it performs exactly like a 3hp equivalent motor. I'll stick to a 1975 Johnson 2 stroke that can push my 14' Amesbury Dory over 23 mph when needed and it only cost me $1,000.00 with electric and manual starting. Keep up the good work. I look forward to your videos.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Good point - technically is should be noticeably faster. And yeah - if what you have is working well, there's no need to change!

[@mycoolo304]

Great video, i was wanting a comparison video on these 2 outboard motors. Thanks Wayne.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Thanks!

[@buddyrevell6369]

You can buy a metal prop for those as the lower, like you said is used on many motors. It helps slightly. Also there are two holes on the lower where oil would seep up and out, and water seeps in. Add a good marine oil to the lower gearbox, if they have anything in them it is probably a coating of Vaseline. Also plug up those holes that I mentioned to keep the oil in and the water out. I also found the tiller handle on those is way too small to be useful. It's a $200 unsupported outboard, have fun and don't trust your life to it.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Thanks for the tip! I'll investigate those holes.

[@TDewl]

Good stuff, I recognize those waters! I've always wondered about these hangkai engines. They also have some interesting gas powered options. Merry Christmas!

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Yeah - they get away with selling new two strokes for some reason when nobody else in North America does!

[@jerrylee8038]

Did u check the gear oil on the hangkai gearbox ?

[@jamesgrabatin5520]

I'm assuming it comes with no oil

[@martijnvaandering]

Maybe that recduces the gear whine

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I will be posting a video about this soon!

[@TheWebstaff]

​@@WayneTheBoatGuy"how I destroyed my outboard to prove a point" 😉

[@artbobik3516]

I have been thinking of picking up a 12-14 ft inflatable due to the crazy prices for used total junk boats these days - you just save me money by not buying an electric Hangkai - I have a 12volt trolling motor I picked up in a pawn shop in Texas in 98 that would work fine in the places in the Florida Keys where you cannot run a gas outboard and use a gas outboard to get there or for a backup - I do want to see another test run after you put the lube in the lower unit -

[@bxbmbr766]

Merry Christmas Wayne!

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Happy holidays!

[@ryancraig2795]

Are these things rated by some kind of horsepower that I'm not familiar with? Because usually 1 HP=749 watts. So you'd need 1500W to even have 2 HP.

[@JohnMcNeely]

It's also comparing apples and oranges. Electric motors develop full horsepower and torque at zero RPM. Gas motors do not.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Yeah there is some magical formula all of the electric outboard companies seem to use and I think it is somehow related to what I like to call "perceived thrust". The math doesn't work, and the top speeds never come close to equal HP gas outboards but Torqeedo, Newport, ePropulsion etc all state an HP that is not mathematically correct.

[@uniphi100]

Wondering about efficiency which has a huge effect on range and battery size/cost required. Would you be willing to test wattage at equivalent speeds?

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I hope to dig a bit deeper into this when the weather is better in the spring/summer!

[@chasetopsecret2018]

You have the hanbkai more off set it would likely perform even better

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I set both motors evenly offset on the transom. It might not show up in the video because of where I am sitting in the boat, but each had one clamp covering a hole from the original motor mount.

[@BrandonsGarage]

I grew up in Chino! Chino Hills kids thought they were fancy, they weren't.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

lol - Hope you're having a nice holiday!

[@TheWebstaff]

24:40 I agree build quality is about 5 times better on the one thats about 5 times the price. So just buy 5 of them and you have plenty of spares! 😁

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

You’ve got to do some long term testing here. For the price of the motor you can buy 6 and come out ahead. The battery would still last a long time. Speaking of battery, 48v 32ah for $799 ? That seems excessive. S

[@tonyp9179]

Have you looked into prop upgrades like the APC props?

[@eddiejiang6789]

There's no room to upgrade to APC prop. This Hangkai motor uses 7-1/4 prop while APC prop is normally 8~10 inches

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Yeah but there are other prop options and my buddy Dan is working on that!

[@gillgetter3004]

Hey if it gets ya across the lake to the fishing spot? Why not

[@TheWebstaff]

21:30 buy a sine wave ebike controller for less than $50 and it will be way quiter!! Most of that motor noise is the square wave of that controller. Its basically a speaker on the top of the motor!

[@TheWebstaff]

I bet most of the plugs will be plug and play, as they all look pretty standard.

[@nickcautrell2514]

I would be interested to see a full test of the model with the motor in the lower unit. Even for the price i don't think i could stand the noise of the gear box.

[@seriksson9721]

4 pieces of 12 V 60Ah should cost a maximum of 400 USD. It will be cheaper and have more Ampere. You can often find 72 Ah batteries for a similar price. A regular 12 V charger will do if you charge individually. The cost of cables is additional, but is small. Am I wrong here?

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

You're right - that is an option. But 4 batteries would take up a lot of space in a small boat.

[@seriksson9721]

.​@@WayneTheBoatGuy I was mostly talking about bang for buck. Isn't it good to have a lot of backup power? But your point is of course also correct. Nice channel

[@CliffordMaxfield]

I'll stick with my trustworthy 2 strokes. Thanks. Maybe in a few years, prices will drop and batteries will improve .

[@grahameire3845]

Hi Wayne, would you think the Hankai would push me Leisure SL 23 as an emergency backup? I have an inboard diesel, with 2 24 volt batteries, so could connect to those. Thank you

[@buddyrevell6369]

Too dangerous (underpowered) for a craft that size.

[@grahameire3845]

@ Thank you 🙏

[@stephenwinter8892]

Greetings from southern Ontario Canada merry Christmas I came across an outboard motor that is operated by propane ? I can't remember if it was on KZbin 😮

[@bigmock141]

I believe the instruction on that manual is just made up and not specifically for that motor

[@TheWebstaff]

Having wated the whole video, I think its time I DIYd an outboard to electric.. or buy one if its only $200

[@Tiersmoke92555]

Range?

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I plan to test the range in the future

[@manuel-o1x7d]

wayne you got to do same test om aluminun boat ,that boat is too heavy for those small motor,see is you can do that,merry christmas and god bless you

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

This boat allowed me to have both on the transom at the same time - but I will be playing with it some more in the future!

[@bearman975]

I think the boat is not big enough. I think that maybe the top speeds are so similar because you are hitting "hull speed" but don't have enough power to plane off and get faster than hull speed. A good comparison would be how many minimum watts (or amps) are required to maintain top speed.

[@edybowlin.8792]

eprop wins on quality but also on support, for when the quality isnt there lol

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Definitely!

[@daviddura1172]

MERRY CHRISTMAS you get what you pay for...or.... don't pay for.....

[@SolarizeYourLife]

Hope there is no plastic gears....

[@TheWebstaff]

19:20 lol anyone who works on an any cheap chinese ebike can fix that thing. Its all the same kit. Tbh I've got a couple of old mid drive kits i keep weighing up throwing on a little seagull outboard.

[@gillesgomez3091]

Well, well, well... I would not take the risk of using the Hangkai on my boat... unless I have another "backup" engine on board... or a good pair of rows 😁 I don't like the open lid at all. What if the wind picks up and some water gets in the vents because of waves? How will this affect the wires, the connectors and the internal corrosion on the long term? Besides, it is pretty poorly engineered. E-propulsion is right to put the motor just in front if the propeller. The old fashioned way (top motor) requires gears which create friction and mechanical losses. The bottom line is you get what you pay for. It is cheap but probably unreliable and... let's face it, not pretty at all!

[@RedemptionReady]

It is each to put the lotion on the skin in every 100 hours

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

lol

[@jerryq1000]

Sounds like an elrectric version of Chinese Water Torture! Epitome of getting what you pay for!

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

It is loud!

[@OutboardDad]

Hey Wayne, like your videos, would love to partner with you, what do you say?

[@TheWebstaff]

950 dollars for a battery! Yikes don't tell this guy that ebike batteries can be wired in for way less..

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Many people don't build their own battery packs but yes there are cheaper ways to power these motors. The battery I used for the test currently retails for $799 and the charger is $150.

[@tristan4337]

Didn't even get to full speed with the Hangkai before giving up and going back to epro. Terrible video, didn't even get to the conclusion of the last video until @3:00 in.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

I did run the Hangkai full throttle and I did it for longer than I ran the ePropulsion at full throttle.

[@stanleybest8833]

You goofed. You should be comparing the Hangkai 4 cycle against the epropulsion. You seemed to have forgotten gear oil. Repeating the same mistake over and over then getting too mechanical with the review kinda sucks. One more thing. Lighters that work every time or Zippo fixes them free. = Reviews could be a lot lot less wordy...and stop shouting at us. .

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

There are lots of motors and engines that could be compared to each other. This one seemed like an obvious one - both being 48 volts and one being 1,000 watts and a much cheaper one being 1,200 watts. And I didn't forget gear oil - I was following the owners manual.

[@stanleybest8833]

@WayneTheBoatGuy C'mon, you're a leader. Show them how.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

@@stanleybest8833 there will be another video soon about the lower unit