When Doctor Who Was Literally 1984

[@HarboWholmes]

the end draws closer www.patreon.com/c/harbowholmes

[@DigiRangerScott]

No seriously screw that regeneration fakeout. Season 10 trailers really slapped us around between that and the John Simm reveal.

[@ThatLegoGuy-10140]

They were worried after the mixed reactions to most of 12s tenure and the fact that they took a year off

[@lazulenoc6863]

The monks rewriting history? But they were always with us, from the beginning of our evolution onto land. Don't you remember?

[@elliotmortimer8316]

14:37 Now I’m imagining Clara crashing into the place with her TARDIS, jumping out and slapping him so hard that he regenerates and then jumping back in the TARDIS and flying off again with the Doctor not even knowing why she slapped him, who she was and how she got a TARDIS.

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

Ngl I like how Bill's love is what gives the Monks consent to rule the world but also what takes it away from them. Neat bit of continuity.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

This, and I also love the idea of beating the fake memories with a fake memory. To me that is narratively very fun.

[@thatcanadianguy07]

It might just be me, but the Memory Police would've been a good use of a Kate Stewart and Unit cameo. Taking something and someone we are all familiar with and trust, and just subverting it would've given the episode a little more weight I feel.

[@TylerBasham]

True! But if I’m not mistaken, the actor for Kate was busy with other obligations at the time, hence why the “UN” soldiers fought the monks instead of UNIT

[@ugolomb]

At least, with the Saxon Master's defeat, time itself got reversed, so that the events didn't happen. Here, they *did* happen, so we're basically expected to believe that everyone didn't notice that six whole months of their lives were gone

[@Blackspidy619]

It's a really bad habit of just giving up on explaining how stuff goes back to normal. People just revert to the status quo even though it makes no sense. The landscape itself magically mends itself from damage... Doctor Who slowly just did away with continuity and anything mattering in the short, medium, and long run.

[@thatquietguy86]

You know, back when the episode first aired, I'd have agreed with you. But honestly, if you asked me specifics about any particular 6-month period of the last few years, I'd be hard pressed to answer.

[@ugolomb]

@@thatquietguy86 If you asked me about a six-month period 3-4 years ago, perhaps. But if you asked me about a six-month period that ended two months ago, yes, I would be very bothered if that entire period had vanished from my memory -- and everyone else's memories as well. I mean, think about the very next day after the monks' departure. Suddenly, all of humanity has some memories from seven months ago, but no recollection whatsoever of what happened last week. Not to mention that people presumaby died, and babies were born, during that period. People were *arrested* during that period, because of the Monks. And suddenly all of that is forgotten? Where did the imprisoned people wake up? What jobs did the members of the Memory Police have?

[@Blackspidy619]

@@ugolomb Imagine. In the Dr Who universe, a bunch of women woke up 3-6 months pregnant all the sudden. And literally nobody remembers how that happened. What about the fake records the monks made? The real records they destroyed? It'd take YEARS to undo this nonsense, and possibly decades of consequences. But it's a one and done "everyone forgor, so everything went back to normal 😄" makes no sense. But Dr Who slowly stopped making sense little by little.

[@finnsharma6331]

@blackspidy618 Well it's probably intended that filler memories were implanted in replace, like with the silence where people don't realise they forgot their mind just filled in memories like they weren't there, something like that but on a bigger scale probably is what was intended to happen

[@Theultimateginger]

I think the reason the monk didn’t question why bill was on the boat is because I believe it’s implied that she wasn’t affect by the mind trick they play( for a dumb reason) so the monks might think that she doesn’t remember the doctor

[@megarotom1590]

I think it would have been cooler if the monks were there during the doctor and Bill confrontation so the doctor has to pretend to be loyal and getting shot letting him go undetected but I digress

[@Alovon]

NGL was expecting a Ground News Sponsorship around the 5-6 min mark lol

[@olived9560]

me too help xD

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

You know, watching this has made it click for me... I always felt that giving the doctor's sight back was fairly cheep, but when you contextualize it like this. It becomes clear it wasn't the sight being given back itself, it was the fact that Lie of the land glosses over too many things and fails to follow up on that whole thing. Like... imagine if Bill, wracked with guilt, talking to the memory of her mother, discusses how she wonders if she made the right decision getting the doctor's sight back. With her wondering if there would even be any chance to survive if she hadn't, did she have a choice? what if refusing the offer just lead the world to become worse in the future? She may not know the doctor as well as some, but she does know he's been at this game for a long time, how many times has the earth been under threat and she never knew? They could have given her a full on existential crisis there, where she questions if maybe the monks aren't the *only* people covering up the truth of the world from the people. Hinting at how Unit keeps a lot of this stuff classified, after all, they know of the doctor, name him president of the world, and yet no one else is even aware of that. It would have been perfect to show the blurry line between where monk's lies and, and humanity's truth begins, with even our own 'true' history being taken into question. That would also make her final attempt to sacrifice herself even more emotional, with her guilt and pain as well as her questioning of the truth being what breaks through. Not just some Deus-ex momma, but a deus-ex momma with a whole load of baggage attached stripping the veil from humanity's eyes as they see the truth for a moment.

[@Polar-Guard]

The monk trilogy had SO much potential 😭

[@Twisted_Code]

Personally my first impression of the serial was positive still, but I can definitely see how this might've been more for its world building than its actual execution. I think you're right that some of the plot elements were underutilized. I don't even remember that scene of them arresting the lady for "crimes against truth". Would have been cool to see that police chief given more depth, might have made the scene more memorable. Also look at me, catching someone's video within the first half-hour of premier. That doesn't happen very often...

[@ElliotFW]

“Humanity forgets lol” >Countless deaths >Countless prisoners and other victims of the monk occupation >People worked for the memory police and presumably other monk organisations, and now have to come to terms with what they did >Journal entries made during the occupation >Photo and video evidence of the occupation >Consequences of the monks’ meddling in general (political, economic, etc) >Propaganda material released by the monks >Everyone on present day Earth who recognises The Doctor has now seen him as the monks’ spokesman >UNIT Yeah IDK if they’re gonna forget about this one, doc

[@taekinuru2]

There's humans in doctor who who are sceptical about aliens existing when the daleks invade a major city every decade humanity has memory issues

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

If you find that dynamic hard to credit, you're not paying attention.

[@calumgardner6936]

It’s a shame this was the last thing Toby Whithouse wrote for the show, especially after doing such good job with all his other episodes (particularly The God Complex, Under The Lake & Before The Flood) beforehand

[@bluearcher1559]

Im literally writing a paper on Foucout and the panopticon dynamics of systems of power.

[@choco.__.cat8088]

i feel like the monk trilogy should have been in 4 parts instead of 3, that way the ending wouldnt have been so rushed. ep,3 should have been exploring life under monk rule and ep,4 should have been defeating the monks. the fact that it was all in 1 part fucked it a little bit

[@ThatLegoGuy-10140]

It would be awesome,plus parts 3 and 4 would seem like a goated 2 parter.

[@mangofishka]

You can call me a fool, but this trilogy looks alike series 3 final, but less epic and without Doctor-Jesus ending

[@toalladepapel]

2:13 woah i didn't even notice thats a reference to the idiots lantern. magpie

[@lcoyle1998]

When you start looking for it, Magpie electronics is everywhere in Doctor Who. Who would have thought such an awful story like Idiot's Lantern would have such a long lasting legacy?

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

did you just say 'Michael' Foucault?! that one hurt. how could you do this? xD

[@timburbagereads]

I really liked the end of this episode. Felt very RTDish

[@christophersheets5452]

Let’s throw this in the “Should have been a two-parter” bin alongside Wedding of River Song, 73 Yards, and Empire of Death

[@lewgallagher463]

Empire of Death is the second part of a two parter though? Though I think regardless episodes like that and wedding of river song needed a complete rewrite rather than just longer running time; they’re rough. 73 yards, yeah, you’re probably right.

[@christophersheets5452]

@ I knew someone was going to call me on this but the setup of Legend of Ruby Sunday is largely abandoned in Empire of Death. Even if that wasn’t true, it could have improved with a longer runtime. Could also be greatly improved by a complete rewrite but an extra episode to flesh out ideas would have been enough in my opinion

[@NdxtremePro]

The monks being weak after being exposed to the truth could have been an attempt to comment on the nature of the authoritarian in the face of truth.

[@jonharnishfeger9860]

This channel has become literally 1984. I can't believe that harbo would stoop to the level of not publishing any videos not remotely relate to Doctor Who.

[@willgraham1044]

the monk trilogy would make an incredible fliux-like 6 episode series. would probably be up there with dr whos best

[@aeloswindrunner]

I do kinda like how the monks do just bugger off. They conquered through consent, and used manipulation to hold it. They always seemed so averse to outright conflict in the previous episodes so it feels like it makes sense for them to avoid a straight fight once their hold is broken

[@kevinpersinger7957]

2:12 Magpie Electrical is a nice throw back to the Tennant era.

[@Ανδρέας-ΓεώργιοςΣκίννερ]

Around 6:00 I was shitting myself expecting a ground news sponsorship

[@backpackerraden6268]

I think the biggest issue with Lie of the Land is that it really should've been two parts (I know it's crazy to say). I think we needed more time in the world of the monks and more time to resolve the way the monks are defeated

[@megarotom1590]

I would argue that while they should’ve done it differently I like the monks do leave. They’re very tactical choosing to leave to conquer another planet than die to the one they already lost a grip on

[@theentity5201]

I always thought the monks were mondasian cybermen without the cybernetic suits

[@danielgraff351]

i enjoy your videos could you do one on how many times theyve made the parents love the saving factor ,or the parents being the most important thing in pretty much every series since the relaunch

[@mathieuleader8601]

it would have been good if the Monks got to revealed as the personifications of discord as a part of the Pantheon of Discord

[@mallos8442]

4:12 I think you slightly misunderstand Foucault here. He doesn't state that with knowledge comes power, but moreso what is considered "knowledge" is largely dictated by ones position of power. Essentially: The monks do not gain power purely through their ability to manipulate knowledge, but the very fact they can create "knowledge" comes from their positions of power.

[@jonathonriddle9922]

Between Inferno, Genesis of the Daleks, and The Happiness Patrol, I love it when Doctor Who clashes with a dystopia! Shame about that ending, eh?

[@superkid801]

I can understand your points. I don't mind the episode, it is the weakest of the Monk Trilogy. It's fine not the greatest, but ok.

[@ValueNetwork]

I think the memory police really undermine the point that the story was going for. Since the monks twisting history to make it look like they were always here, the show could’ve used that to show how authoritarianism can exist in our regular institutions, commenting on stuff like police brutality and political corruption… but instead the monks created a thought police ripoff in stark contrast to how they handled the rest of their invasion, almost like the show was afraid to commit to its theme. In a real authoritative government the oppressors won’t dress in red and have big bad guy insignias, it will be the regular institutions of the modern day used against us (like the Firefighters of Fahrenheit 451 who go from preventing fires to starting them, but they still appear like the firefighters that we have today. I wish this narrative pulled more from Fahrenheit IMO) Toby Whithouse really dropped the ball here, especially because he gave us some truly incredible episodes in the past. I wonder what this story woudve looked like if Moffat got to complete the entire trilogy?

[@lonewalker3291]

imagine if Ground News sponsored this video. You could have a great segway into the ad

[@Guerreropowerr]

The advent of AI is even scarier now!

[@lewiitoons4227]

Aw man modern add economy has fucked me up, the entire segment of fake news had me anticipating a sponsor read for the whole time jajaja

[@selatidos]

Actually i liked the doctor pretending working with the monks and blaming Bill for making a deal with the monks,with they having the earth if they restore the doctor 's eyesight ,it's a shame still it wasn't the doctor hypnotized or something similar by the monks

[@selatidos]

i will❤ something like a torchwood: children of earth Review!

[@dw7704]

On one hand I agree that each part of the trilogy decreased. It started so well, and part 2 was still good. On the other hand, while Lie of the Land was easily the weakest episode of the trilogy, I think I liked it better than most.

[@ryanhoffmann9341]

I may be asking an obvious question, but what connection do these monks have to do with the Headless Monks from, say, Demons Run?

[@selifane5907]

they're not connected, just happen to both be monks!

[@RoyalKingOliver]

The only influence 1984 has on my life is the fact that Big Brother, the US reality tv show, is something I always watch every summer. Seriously tho, you should check it out XD

[@cosmiclikesminecraft]

For me the “love conquers all” ending of this episode ALSO soured World Enough In Time and The Doctor Falls for me when I first saw them (now I appreciate those episodes independently of this one) Because it felt like what was the point of making it so Bill survives here when she dies not long later. It just felt like a bit of a slap in the face to deny us the audience a proper fitting ending in this episode only to kill her later anyways. Essentially dragging this episode down for nothing

[@HMMadsen]

20:42 Omg I never noticed that Donald Trump was there

[@BradTheThird]

Isn't he randomly name dropped in the Pyramid episode as well? I never got that...

[@ThatLegoGuy-10140]

They mentioned multiple current Geopolitical leaders. Like other monarchs and presidents leading countries. They mentioned Trump because he was the US president and he had recently been elected. They wanted to make it more relatable for the American crowd,and if you mention a bunch of country leaders how can you skip the US

[@HMMadsen]

@@ThatLegoGuy-10140 I mean it makes sense, yeah. I was just surprised that I never really noticed him until now

[@lasseehrenreich5502]

Jeg synes den er bedre end 1984 for ikke at gøre mig så ubehagelig

[@HMMadsen]

Hvorfor skriver du på dansk, når Harbo Wholmes ikke taler sproget? Og for resten, så er det mega nice at møde en anden dansk Doctor Who fan helt tilfældigt på internettet

[@lasseehrenreich5502]

@@HMMadsen Det er også rart at møde dig min ven Jeg gør det når jeg ikke er helt sikker på om jeg vil have folk til at Jeg gør det når jeg ikke er helt sikker på jeg vil have alle folk til at forstå hvad jeg mener

[@S_yIvie]

The only miss the entire series though imo

[@oldsouplegs7384]

I feel that the monks should have been connected to an established enemy. Either the headless monks, some timelord/sisterhood of karn offshoot, or something else previously featured. The monks in this just sort of come and go and we don't know anymore about them at the end or why they are invading

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

the false equivalence of "right and left wing sides fighting over 'narratives'" ... uh... what? Thats... gonna need unpacking... ooohhh boy Telling on yourself a little bit there :/

[@saadyahschick7560]

What do you mean?

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@saadyahschick7560 Peddling the narrative of the right and left somehow being equal and opposites just arguing with eachother (as he does in this video), as if those positions are merely aesthetic but equally valid (particularly their extremes being equally bad - which they're not) is not only false, but dangerous in its ignorant reductionism - and gives cover to the far-right. And key to this, is that such a presentation of matters is itself not only a obfuscation of how things really are, but an implicit perpetuation of any given status quo - which is itself, not apolitical.

[@saadyahschick7560]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I personally think recognizing the evil and corruption that exists on both sides is better and more accurate than creating this "us VS them" mentality in which people are so divided and exist in a bubble where each side is convinced that the other side is made up of literal dictators

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@saadyahschick7560 ok, so this is exactly what I'm talking about.This "bad things on both sides" thing is a false equivalance itself. To put it nicely since YT will freak out and block this reply if I don't, there is a difference between "doing bad things because we think people x y z literally don't have a right to exist" and "we have to do bad things to defend against the people doing the really bad things or, to sustain a state that exists in opposition to them." The what matters less than the why because, suprise suprise, if people studied the why and not the what, they might just start to see the system they live under now as the former ("doing bad things because we think people x y z literally don't have a right to exist") and not the latter ("bad things to defend against the people doing the bad things or sustain a state that exists in opposition to them."). but again, I literally can't give examples and a nuanced explanation because YT will just autodelete to :/

[@saadyahschick7560]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 And both sides think their doing bad things for the second reason you said when in reality the first reason (thinking certain people don't have the right to exist) is present in the actions of both sides

[@TheInedibleHulk]

It's figuratively 1984, not "literally". "Literally 1984" would mean it either need to be the exact setting of the novel OR just take place in the year 1984.

[@HarboWholmes]

it's a meme

[@rhodrage]

​@@HarboWholmes Careful you don't wanna make him angry, you won't like him when he's angry

[@garbageguy2599]

Literally 1984

[@TheInedibleHulk]

@@garbageguy2599 Literally 2017, my guy

[@shanemurphy8682]

​@@HarboWholmes refer to leona lanzing in the show the newsroom. They've changed the meaning of literally

[@dracrorasco4907]

Like most trilogies the last part sucks

[@ThatLegoGuy-10140]

Lord of the Rings Back to the Future Indiana Jones Star Wars OT Star Wars PT The Dark Knight Mario NES Iron Man Captain America Pirates of the Caribbean Guardians of the Galaxy Lego Batman games Halo Fallout 1-3 Need I go on.

[@lcoyle1998]

​@ThatLegoGuy-10140 a lot of those have their third entry as the worst - Lego Batman specifically

[@dracrorasco4907]

@ThatLegoGuy-10140 in fairness I said most not all

[@eliphas_vlka]

​@@ThatLegoGuy-10140bruh some of these are good

[@TheTeamAka]

Figuredly not literally